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[Star Trek] Keep On Trekkin' (Lower Decks stuff in SPOILERS)

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Data calls French a dead langauge at one point, prompting a terse denial from Picard. Data tries to explain his reasoning but Riker quickly let's him know that he should just drop it.

    Commander ZoomCambiataNightslyrLord_Asmodeus
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Every supposed French person in Star Trek has a very not-French accent, so clearly France didn't fare well in one of the catastrophes of the 21st Century.

    Auralynxchrono_travellerDonnictona5ehrenNightslyrLord_Asmodeus
  • hlprmnkyhlprmnky Registered User regular
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    hlprmnky wrote: »
    I like the Intrepid-class design quite a bit - the Akira/Steamrunner/Norway design language that also informs the Sovereign-class is really good in a different way and I like it a lot too, but the Intrepid does something different for me.
    Its lines and form are all about efficiency - look at her from above, everything butts right up against the boundary of the warp envelope - almost none of the field’s volume is wasted. The nacelles are, to put it mildly, right-sized, while the deflector - that tool of many uses - is so large that the primary/secondary hull division seems to have been built around the array specs. This is not, as starships in Trek go, a design that speaks to speed or power, but to getting more Starfleet crews out into the quadrant, faster and further afield.
    She’s not going to play with the Akira and Steamrunner duo, those are built for rapid response and force projection. This ship is built out of all the science labs and packed-up industrial replicators and medical supply manufactories they didn’t leave room for on the Steamrunner.
    It’s exactly the ship you would build a hundred and fifty of to replace the Miranda variants and other Constitution-era spaceframes that don’t have any more full refits left in ‘em.
    A sleek, organic, elegant design for the boring, unsexy work that keeps a quadrant-spanning Federation held together. Peak Starfleet.

    I mean, that's why the nebula class exists though right, the pod up top can be interchanged depending on if it's a science mission, war mission, etc

    That’s true, but how many Intrepids can you build and crew with the investment required to field one Nebula? Two? Four?

    _
    iOS: hlprmnky | PSN: hlprmnky_2 | SC2: Callow.126
  • MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    hlprmnky wrote: »
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    hlprmnky wrote: »
    I like the Intrepid-class design quite a bit - the Akira/Steamrunner/Norway design language that also informs the Sovereign-class is really good in a different way and I like it a lot too, but the Intrepid does something different for me.
    Its lines and form are all about efficiency - look at her from above, everything butts right up against the boundary of the warp envelope - almost none of the field’s volume is wasted. The nacelles are, to put it mildly, right-sized, while the deflector - that tool of many uses - is so large that the primary/secondary hull division seems to have been built around the array specs. This is not, as starships in Trek go, a design that speaks to speed or power, but to getting more Starfleet crews out into the quadrant, faster and further afield.
    She’s not going to play with the Akira and Steamrunner duo, those are built for rapid response and force projection. This ship is built out of all the science labs and packed-up industrial replicators and medical supply manufactories they didn’t leave room for on the Steamrunner.
    It’s exactly the ship you would build a hundred and fifty of to replace the Miranda variants and other Constitution-era spaceframes that don’t have any more full refits left in ‘em.
    A sleek, organic, elegant design for the boring, unsexy work that keeps a quadrant-spanning Federation held together. Peak Starfleet.

    I mean, that's why the nebula class exists though right, the pod up top can be interchanged depending on if it's a science mission, war mission, etc

    That’s true, but how many Intrepids can you build and crew with the investment required to field one Nebula? Two? Four?

    Intrepid-class has a crew complement of 150, Nebula-class 750, per Memory-Alpha. Which seems awfully high for the Nebula, honestly, and may be a reason they developed the Intrepid in the first place.

    uH3IcEi.png
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    The Nebula is basically a Galaxy saucer with a smaller secondary hull and no neck. All the crew quarters and most of the important facility are in the saucer so it's not a lot of space lost.

    By volume, the Nebula is about 80% the size of the Galaxy, and some of that difference is taken up in the two shuttlebays in the saucer and the stardrive section's extra bridge and sickbay, so 750 vs. 1000 is pretty much in line. The Intrepid, on the other hand, is only about 10% the volume of the Galaxy, so 150 vs. 1000 is going to be a bit crowded (but nothing on the TOS-era ships or the Defiant).

  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Data calls French a dead langauge at one point, prompting a terse denial from Picard. Data tries to explain his reasoning but Riker quickly let's him know that he should just drop it.

    There's a long running fan theory (that Futurama referenced) that France got turbofucked in WW3 and was basically depopulated along with the rest of mainland Europe. The Eugenics Wars turbofucked Asia and the Middle East. The British Isles were somewhat less effected and simply devolved into a race of post atomic horror mutants. All indications point to most of humanity's population growth occurring off Earth after First Contact. Much of the terraforming technology we see Starfleet using likely came about from efforts to un-fuck Earth after WW3. I would hazard a guess and say that the population of Earth in the new Picard show has probably only just reached our own IRL population.

    steam_sig.png
    Commander Zoomchrono_travellerNightslyrLord_Asmodeus
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    From the design, the Nebula is essentially a Galaxy class with the pylons and neck taken out (to make space gravy). So it makes some sense that it would have a near Galaxy sized crew complement.
    It's also (from what I remember) a much more capable design than the Intrepid class, across a wider array of mission types. The variable mission pod alone seems to be near the size of an Intrepid, and that's just the hot-swappable mission specific gear.

    It seems that the Intrepid is probably an ideal ship to use when the crew and command all know fairly well what to expect. It's not really designed for a 5 year deep space mission. I mean, you can probably go light on industrial engineers if you know the mission is asking you to whip up a cure for some kind of space sniffles, probably go light on tactical officers if the mission is to probe a negative space wedgie. Never go completely tactical free, because, on average, 1 in 13.5 NSWs disgorge mirror universe ships or AI tentacle robots that try to kill you.
    But the Nebula is the one you want when you've got to whip up that cure, probe that wedgie and fight the Terran ships all with one ship. It's got the space and, presumable, the crew flexibility to handle that kind of mission array. It may not be as flexible or have the consumable longevity of a Galaxy class, but it seems like it's got a role as the big swiss army knife ship.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
    JacobkoshCommander ZoomhlprmnkyNightslyrMsAnthropyLord_Asmodeus
  • HydropoloHydropolo Registered User regular
    I'd imagine the Nebula class would be scary as hell to foreign parties. You see one show up and have to wonder if it has a science package or the OMFG Torpedo Launcher. I'm curious though, how much more effective is a Galaxy class with the saucer separated in combat vs other ships? I also can't believe they didn't put the money together to render them that ways for the DS9 battles... I just cannot imagine a Galaxy going into battle with all the extra mass.

  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited June 21
    It actually loses the two big phaser arrays and extra power generation without the saucer (this part is referenced in Best of Both Worlds when Riker rejected the suggestion of ditching the saucer). It's not more effective in combat, the purpose is to leave the several hundred civilians behind before getting in a fight, but leaving them at a Starbase like the USS Odyssey did is preferable.

    Also, there's a lot less things to hit on the Stardrive, any direct hit is likely to hit something combat-important, rather than nuking the greenhouse or third grade classroom or dolphin tanks in the saucer.

    Hevach on
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Didn't someone do the math and figure out the 4,000 person crew would barely take up any of the available room on the enterprise?

  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    Didn't someone do the math and figure out the 4,000 person crew would barely take up any of the available room on the enterprise?

    EC Henry on YouTube is the one I've watched. Pretty sure I posted it before.
    I was watching his channel for his Star Wars ship content, but this one is pretty interesting too.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Didn't someone do the math and figure out the 4,000 person crew would barely take up any of the available room on the enterprise?

    well that's because 90% of the ship is Jefferies tubes

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  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Didn't someone do the math and figure out the 4,000 person crew would barely take up any of the available room on the enterprise?

    I remember reading/seeing something about that. If non-canon blowups and cutaways are to be believed, the standard Enterprise D crew complement would leave ~90% of the ship empty. In my head canon, there is actually comparatively little living space inside a starship. Something like 3/4ths of the internal volume is occupied by ship systems and jefferies tubes. Maybe 1/10th of the internal volume is actual crew quarters. The schematics that are shown on screen never really indicate exactly how much actual living space people enjoy and are generally more abstract. representations.

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    Doodmann
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    I'm hearing that Joanna Linville (the Romulan Commander, TOS "The Enterprise Incident") has died. :(

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    Steam, Warframe: Megajoule
  • evilmrhenryevilmrhenry Registered User regular
    That_Guy wrote: »
    Didn't someone do the math and figure out the 4,000 person crew would barely take up any of the available room on the enterprise?

    I remember reading/seeing something about that. If non-canon blowups and cutaways are to be believed, the standard Enterprise D crew complement would leave ~90% of the ship empty. In my head canon, there is actually comparatively little living space inside a starship. Something like 3/4ths of the internal volume is occupied by ship systems and jefferies tubes. Maybe 1/10th of the internal volume is actual crew quarters. The schematics that are shown on screen never really indicate exactly how much actual living space people enjoy and are generally more abstract. representations.

    My perspective is that the Galaxy class is kind of a jack of all trades; between the extensive diplomatic quarters, science labs, torpedo launchers, shuttle bays, cargo bays, and so on, the ship may only be in 10-30% use on any particular mission, but the bits of the ship that are in use vary per mission; there's not much reconfigurable space. Maybe the nanite research lab is only used for non-mission-related research for years, but then Something Happens, and it's suddenly the most important room on the ship until the situation is resolved. A dedicated nanite research lab is a luxury of space smaller ships can't afford, and Starfleet isn't going to build a dedicated nanite research ship, but it is willing to stick a lab in a Galaxy-class ship as a standard feature. Repeat that decision process a few dozen times, and you end up with the Federation's largest ship, but one where crewmembers still need a roommate. (You also end up with a ship that's sent to take care of all the Weird Stuff an Intrepid-class ship doesn't have the equipment or personnel to properly resolve.)

  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Data calls French a dead langauge at one point, prompting a terse denial from Picard. Data tries to explain his reasoning but Riker quickly let's him know that he should just drop it.
    Point of order! He called it an obscure language, not dead.

  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    It's been brought up a few times that the Galaxy can hold roughly ten times the number of people that actually crew it in TNG. The extra capacity can be used for emergencies, like extracting refugees or crews from stricken ships, or during wartime the Galaxy can be used as a troop ship or even fleet carrier for fighter wings.

    i write amazing erotic fiction

    its all about anthropomorphic dicks doing everyday things like buying shoes for their scrotum-feet
    Winky wrote: »
    Corgis are totally the white people of dogs
  • Quantum TigerQuantum Tiger Half Pam/Half Garf/All Lovin Where all your dreams come true!Registered User regular
    Most of the space in the Enterprise is taken up by the tanks the dolphin crew live in

    pa6BYjO.jpg
    BloodySlothchrono_travellerhlprmnkyDoodmannRMS OceanicNightslyrMsAnthropyLord_Asmodeus
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    That's some sexy as all hell spaceship pornography on the previous page!

    I am in the business of saving lives.
    Casual
  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    That's some sexy as all hell spaceship pornography on the previous page!

    748s6ih2rtw1.jpg


    Dat AFT.

    i write amazing erotic fiction

    its all about anthropomorphic dicks doing everyday things like buying shoes for their scrotum-feet
    Winky wrote: »
    Corgis are totally the white people of dogs
    Commander ZoomMegaMan001Donnictonchrono_travelleremnmnmehlprmnkyshrykeInquisitor77GiantGeek2020NightslyrJandaruboogedybooMvrckLord_Asmodeus
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    It's been brought up a few times that the Galaxy can hold roughly ten times the number of people that actually crew it in TNG. The extra capacity can be used for emergencies, like extracting refugees or crews from stricken ships, or during wartime the Galaxy can be used as a troop ship or even fleet carrier for fighter wings.

    Isn't there an actual TNG episode where the Enterprise is supposed to evacuate like 15k people or so from a illegal colony or something like that?

    CasualAeolusdallas
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Yes, the one in Sheliak territory. Evacuating them wasn't the problem, beaming them up was impossible and it would take forever to move them a few at a time in shuttles, or two weeks to get a proper landable colony transport on site.

  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    It's been brought up a few times that the Galaxy can hold roughly ten times the number of people that actually crew it in TNG. The extra capacity can be used for emergencies, like extracting refugees or crews from stricken ships, or during wartime the Galaxy can be used as a troop ship or even fleet carrier for fighter wings.

    In one of the Disco Short Treks (S2, Ep1, "Q&A"), on his first day aboard the Pike Enterprise, Spock gets trapped in a turbolift with Number One, and the exterior shots of the turbolift show a LOT of empty space inside the hull. I mean, a lot.

    onzxpxdkssh3.png

    It's possible that this isn't representative of the space throughout the hull, and this was a particularly large void, but it's as likely that this is commonplace too, especially given the math others have done.

  • CroakerBCCroakerBC TorontoRegistered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    It's been brought up a few times that the Galaxy can hold roughly ten times the number of people that actually crew it in TNG. The extra capacity can be used for emergencies, like extracting refugees or crews from stricken ships, or during wartime the Galaxy can be used as a troop ship or even fleet carrier for fighter wings.

    Isn't there an actual TNG episode where the Enterprise is supposed to evacuate like 15k people or so from a illegal colony or something like that?

    I am continually annoyed by Trek episodes where the protagonists find a lost colony from Earth, usually regressed into low tech/our modern tech at best, and decide to leave them like that, because they’re their own unique society now or whatever.

    No. You get in there with your medicines and counsellors, before that one cowboy shoots that other cowboy.

    TNG, Enterprise and Disco all did this and I spent far too long shouting at the screen every time. (Weirdly I think Ents was the least bad?)

    Casualchrono_traveller
  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    CroakerBC wrote: »
    honovere wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    It's been brought up a few times that the Galaxy can hold roughly ten times the number of people that actually crew it in TNG. The extra capacity can be used for emergencies, like extracting refugees or crews from stricken ships, or during wartime the Galaxy can be used as a troop ship or even fleet carrier for fighter wings.

    Isn't there an actual TNG episode where the Enterprise is supposed to evacuate like 15k people or so from a illegal colony or something like that?

    I am continually annoyed by Trek episodes where the protagonists find a lost colony from Earth, usually regressed into low tech/our modern tech at best, and decide to leave them like that, because they’re their own unique society now or whatever.

    No. You get in there with your medicines and counsellors, before that one cowboy shoots that other cowboy.

    TNG, Enterprise and Disco all did this and I spent far too long shouting at the screen every time. (Weirdly I think Ents was the least bad?)

    I agree with this sentiment but I think this and several other inferences you can make from TOS and TNG's dealings with Alpha Quadrant problems suggest that the Federation is kind of in over its head, centralization-wise, relative to the amount of space the member species are trying to inhabit. We keep seeing San Francisco and the important parts of Vulcan, which are designed to impress, but we don't spend much time in the far corners of the Federation where guys like Okona hang out. It may be a wilder place on some level than the writers usually admit.

    kshu0oba7xnr.png

  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    see317 wrote: »
    That_Guy wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    What happens if you put a universal translator on a newborn? The computer is still going to make an attempt at translation even when it can't, as evidenced by the Darmok episode.

    Well, we know now that a fair chunk of the reason the very young can't speak is simple physical development. Even carried to full term, human infants are born significantly premature by the standards of most animals and take months of further development to become "mature" infants. The brain is still developing significantly, muscle coordination is minimal, and the palate has to develop (which is an important structure for speech). Incredibly, babies can effectively learn and use sign language many months before they learn to speak or may be even capable of speech due to remaining physical development.

    To the best of my knowledge, one of the special things about humans is our brain architecture for language. We're kinda hard-wired to utilize language so, presumably, the problem with putting a translator on an infant is that the computer would be starting from scratch on a "new" language with every new infant. But I'd bet that within a matter of weeks or months, the system could figure out at least a rudimentary vocabulary for translation.

    I definitely think that the Federation would at least develop the tech to monitor infants and tell you why they're crying and what the resolution is, though.

    In my head canon they created a universal translator for babies but they never have anything interesting to say so no one uses them.

    Having a universal translator from birth, nobody actually learns a real language in order to communicate. It's all just baby babble that the computer translates into recognizable language and then retranslates into your particular flavor of baby babble so you can understand it.

    Captain Sisko was born and raised in Louisiana so I prefer to imagine the tech translates in real time to what the listener is most comfortable with. Everything Chief O'Brien or Odo say comes back to Sisko's ears as broken French with a Cajun accent.

    Would explain Picard's 'French accent'

    Isn't French a dead language in TNG? Or am I thinking of Futurama?

    That's Futurama.

    sig.gif
  • WinkyWinky rRegistered User regular
    omg I can't believe the resolution to that red squad episode is just straight-up "and all the children die"

  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    So finished Lower Decks. That was some surprisingly good Star Trek. Like just good Star Trek stories on top of the silliness and jokes.

    I like the California class was basically a shitty little ship the Miranda class but updated. Used for the non-sexy missions and moving about the edge of Fed space for second contact and such. Also putting this in a spoiler from the finale...
    The mother fucking Titan. Someone was scrawling through the deep Star Trek book lore for that one. A gorgeous ship though.

    izqedynmxk17.png

    Excited for the second season though.

    u7stthr17eud.png
    CasualDoodmannMancingtomchrono_travellerCommander ZoomGiantGeek2020NightslyrMsAnthropyMvrckKana
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    CroakerBC wrote: »
    honovere wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    It's been brought up a few times that the Galaxy can hold roughly ten times the number of people that actually crew it in TNG. The extra capacity can be used for emergencies, like extracting refugees or crews from stricken ships, or during wartime the Galaxy can be used as a troop ship or even fleet carrier for fighter wings.

    Isn't there an actual TNG episode where the Enterprise is supposed to evacuate like 15k people or so from a illegal colony or something like that?

    I am continually annoyed by Trek episodes where the protagonists find a lost colony from Earth, usually regressed into low tech/our modern tech at best, and decide to leave them like that, because they’re their own unique society now or whatever.

    No. You get in there with your medicines and counsellors, before that one cowboy shoots that other cowboy.

    TNG, Enterprise and Disco all did this and I spent far too long shouting at the screen every time. (Weirdly I think Ents was the least bad?)

    I mean, there's debates along these lines that happen right now with various small pockets of cultures out there on earth. And "just leave them alone" is what a lot of people argue. So I don't think this is really a strange reaction from the show.

    RichyJacobkoshNightslyr
  • BogartBogart Gonna Be A Man In Motion Registered User, Moderator mod
    Star Trek has had a bunch of episodes where some well-meaning Federation officer interfered with a planet's development and Things Ended Badly, perhaps best exemplified by the one where someone re-invented the Nazis to "help things along".

    Whatever you might think, in the Star Trek universe there's ample evidence that sticking your oar into pre-warp civilisations is a Bad Idea.

    Commander ZoomJacobkoshNightslyrMsAnthropy
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    The real world also has a lot of episodes where well-meaning (in their minds) explorers, missionaries, colonists, and government officials tried to help a less-advanced tribe or civilization. Things pretty much always end badly for the other group.

    Leave them alone, create a buffer area around them and arrest anyone that enters it is pretty much the only solution that works out well for them.

    sig.gif
    BogartshrykeGiantGeek2020JacobkoshNightslyrMsAnthropy
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    /gestures to the totality of colonialism

    Also all of history shows that an advanced culture coming into contact with a primitive culture ends in genocide

    I am in the business of saving lives.
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    MegaMan001 wrote: »
    /gestures to the totality of colonialism

    Also all of history shows that an advanced culture coming into contact with a primitive culture ends in genocide

    I think the Federation would be able to avoid that specific pitfall, but I think you could have an interesting episode involving a human colony that recovered enough from The Event to rediscover warp technology (to avoid the main Prime Directive redline) and explore the possible issues that the overwhelming power of the Federation's root beer might cause for cultures that are new to the galactic stage.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    I dunno, first contact worked out pretty well for Japan all things considered.
    Entirely depends on how much control over foreign interference the culture in question has and how much it's willing embrace the shift in it's own culture to catch up with the rest of the universe.

  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Sure, if "having a series of bloody civil wars and compelling their country to embark on a series of aggressive invasions, ultimately culminating in being one of the major antagonists of World War II" counts as "working out pretty well".

  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    Sure, if "having a series of bloody civil wars and compelling their country to embark on a series of aggressive invasions, ultimately culminating in being one of the major antagonists of World War II" counts as "working out pretty well".

    so zero impact on their culture.

    Lanlaorn
  • MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    Winky wrote: »
    omg I can't believe the resolution to that red squad episode is just straight-up "and all the children die"

    DS9 gives few fucks. It's easy to see the straight line between it and the BSG reboot.

    uH3IcEi.png
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    Sure, if "having a series of bloody civil wars and compelling their country to embark on a series of aggressive invasions, ultimately culminating in being one of the major antagonists of World War II" counts as "working out pretty well".

    Contact with the West absolutely cannot be blamed for Japan's belligerent domestic or foreign policy, they were following those same patterns before and after.

  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    I dunno, first contact worked out pretty well for Japan all things considered.
    Entirely depends on how much control over foreign interference the culture in question has and how much it's willing embrace the shift in it's own culture to catch up with the rest of the universe.

    Japan didn't have a single event of first contact nor were they as isolated and oblivious to what was happening around them as a lot of history makes out.

    They had constant trade with Asian neighbors and the Portuguese after the Tokugawa ban on foreigners went into place. They knew about the Opium Wars and what was happening in China. Their response to the Americans and the Black Ships was a civil war, shift in government and a focus on "If you can't beat them join them" when it comes to colonization. They were scared of being the next China and the initial treaties they signed were pretty good proof they could have gone that way.

    Also they had been interacting with the West since the 1500's.

    u7stthr17eud.png
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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    Star Trek has had a bunch of episodes where some well-meaning Federation officer interfered with a planet's development and Things Ended Badly, perhaps best exemplified by the one where someone re-invented the Nazis to "help things along".

    Whatever you might think, in the Star Trek universe there's ample evidence that sticking your oar into pre-warp civilisations is a Bad Idea.

    I like how some random dipshit decides "Let's reinvent nazis" and everyone's response isn't "Well, that guy was a moron and we need better surpervision for any dealings with prewarp civilizations" it's rather "Welp, there's no possible way this could have been handled better so I guess we should just prevent all pre-warp contact, no matter what."

This discussion has been closed.