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The Novel Novel [Coronavirus] Discussion Thread

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Posts

  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    In better news, apparently increased breast size is a possible side effect for women who get Pfizer, reports Norwegian national public broadcaster NRK, with increases of up to a full cup size.

    (Sadly, the effect is temporary and should subside in a week or two.)

    Please don't make creepy boob jokes, thank you.

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  • TetraNitroCubaneTetraNitroCubane The Djinnerator At the bottom of a bottleRegistered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    The scenes from London and the Euro final are insane.

    yeah whoever teams wins, covid is definitely the runner up

    The WHO agrees with this statement
    In unusually forthright comments from the U.N. health agency, which usually refrains from remarking on the policies of individual member states, its COVID-19 technical lead Maria Van Kerkhove called the sight of the more than 60,000 spectators at the match between Italy and England "devastating".

    "Am I supposed to be enjoying watching transmission happening in front of my eyes?" she tweeted in the late stages of the match.

    "The #COVID19 pandemic is not taking a break tonight ... #SARSCoV2 #DeltaVariant will take advantage of unvaccinated people, in crowded settings, unmasked, screaming/shouting/singing. Devastating."

    burboIncenjucarGnome-Interruptus
  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    There's certainly been a lot of talk about breakthrough cases with Delta, where you see exactly that kind of behavior. (partially) vaccinated people spread the virus even though they get mild cases or asymptomatic cases. It does seem to lessen after full vaccination (2 shots + 2 weeks), but doesn't go away. The good news is that the vaccine remains very effective at preventing hospitalizations and deaths, but the bad news is that this kind of breakthrough destroys simple herd immunity calculations, and require higher vaccination percentages to keep above the threshold. On top of needing higher percentages because Delta is more contagious.

    One other thing that has became quite apparent that the seasonal modifier on the disease is quite large. A 30%-40% swing between spring and fall. This is why it could be important to get people fully vaccinated before September, when that needle starts swinging the other way.
    My own country fucked things up tremendously the last month, but at least the vaccination intention remains very high, and we may end up with 85% above the age of 12.
    This is what our CDC predicts is actually about the needed number to prevent fall flare ups.

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  • CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    Forar wrote: »
    As a member of House Astrizer myself, I too am somewhat concerned about my vaccination status not being recognized.

    Is it pertinent right now? No.

    Might it be in the months to come? Maybe.

    I get that the health Canada council has no say on the restrictions and requirements of other countries, but it’s reasonable to be frustrated to hear “the best shot you can get is the one that’s available”, get AZ, hear a bunch of shit about concerns regarding safety, having an mRNA backup be stated as safe and effective, and then find out that either waiting for Pfizer the first time or taking AZ a second time (both of which had uncertainty involved in terms of timeline and availability) would have been superior choices. Bit late for that now…

    I also respect that this is right now. This situation is changing day to day, let alone month to month.

    But quietly hoping that making government guided choices to protect myself and community might hinder or screw over me/others in the same boat is annoying all the same.

    So, I chose to go Astra/MRNA (in my case Astra/Moderna was the result) because I expect eventually we're going to end up getting a booster shot of some kind, and it seems likely that the booster will be an MRNA shot

    The messaging and back and forth about AZ was, pretty shit but it is kind of too late to worry about it now. If those of us who got AZ first end up needing a 3rd dose of an MRNA vaccine for travel, Canada has the supply to make that happen I think. We're getting 8.2 million doses just of Pfizer in the next three weeks, let alone whatever Moderna is going to provide.

    FWIW and for anyone interested, I had way less severe reaction to my Moderna 2nd dose than my AZ first dose.

  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    I had mild reactions to both AZ and then Biontech. It's a dice roll on symptoms.

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  • TetraNitroCubaneTetraNitroCubane The Djinnerator At the bottom of a bottleRegistered User regular
    edited July 13



    BREAKING: U.S. reports more than 35,000 new coronavirus cases, biggest one-day increase since May
    U.S. COVID update: Biggest one-day increase since May, number in hospital continues to rise

    - New cases: 35,199
    - Average: 23,477 (+4,332)
    - In hospital: 19,409 (+558)
    - In ICU: 4,846 (+192)
    - New deaths: 277

    More data: https://newsnodes.com/us

    We're starting to see the impact of lifting restrictions prematurely. Cases are rising across almost all 50 states in the US. In my county, daily cases have risen from ~10 per day to ~40 per day.
    7LnOaiM.png

    Data captured from NewsNodes, which is where BNO sources their numbers.

    TetraNitroCubane on
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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    this is not the kind of job security I was looking for. :(

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  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular



    BREAKING: U.S. reports more than 35,000 new coronavirus cases, biggest one-day increase since May
    U.S. COVID update: Biggest one-day increase since May, number in hospital continues to rise

    - New cases: 35,199
    - Average: 23,477 (+4,332)
    - In hospital: 19,409 (+558)
    - In ICU: 4,846 (+192)
    - New deaths: 277

    More data: https://newsnodes.com/us

    We're starting to see the impact of lifting restrictions prematurely. Cases are rising across almost all 50 states in the US. In my county, daily cases have risen from ~10 per day to ~40 per day.
    7LnOaiM.png

    Data captured from NewsNodes, which is where BNO sources their numbers.

    Ehhhh go look into your state to make sure. Like it shows Oregon at 108%, but that's because Saturday and Sunday were at zero, and everything was lumped into today's count, which makes it look like a massive spike.

    This isn't to say we aren't seeing growth, we totally are, but a lot of Monday numbers are skewed from the weekend, at least when represented by the percentages on that map.

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  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular



    BREAKING: U.S. reports more than 35,000 new coronavirus cases, biggest one-day increase since May
    U.S. COVID update: Biggest one-day increase since May, number in hospital continues to rise

    - New cases: 35,199
    - Average: 23,477 (+4,332)
    - In hospital: 19,409 (+558)
    - In ICU: 4,846 (+192)
    - New deaths: 277

    More data: https://newsnodes.com/us

    We're starting to see the impact of lifting restrictions prematurely. Cases are rising across almost all 50 states in the US. In my county, daily cases have risen from ~10 per day to ~40 per day.
    7LnOaiM.png

    Data captured from NewsNodes, which is where BNO sources their numbers.

    Ultimately it wasn't premature, unless you think anything before "we forcibly vaccinate 40% of the country" is premature. We had more than enough vaccine doses to get everyone vaccinated by now, people through various combinations of idiocy and laziness just haven't bothered. Over 99% of all deaths last month were among the unvaccinated.

    It's like the parable of the man stuck in the flood and god, but shorter.

    A man is dying of Covid and he asks god "why didn't you save me" and God replies "I gave you a safe effective vaccine available for free with no appointment at the place you stop at twice a week to buy racks of Busch Light"

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Just continuing to require people to wear masks would have been a big help.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular



    BREAKING: U.S. reports more than 35,000 new coronavirus cases, biggest one-day increase since May
    U.S. COVID update: Biggest one-day increase since May, number in hospital continues to rise

    - New cases: 35,199
    - Average: 23,477 (+4,332)
    - In hospital: 19,409 (+558)
    - In ICU: 4,846 (+192)
    - New deaths: 277

    More data: https://newsnodes.com/us

    We're starting to see the impact of lifting restrictions prematurely. Cases are rising across almost all 50 states in the US. In my county, daily cases have risen from ~10 per day to ~40 per day.
    7LnOaiM.png

    Data captured from NewsNodes, which is where BNO sources their numbers.

    Ultimately it wasn't premature, unless you think anything before "we forcibly vaccinate 40% of the country" is premature. We had more than enough vaccine doses to get everyone vaccinated by now, people through various combinations of idiocy and laziness just haven't bothered. Over 99% of all deaths last month were among the unvaccinated.

    It's like the parable of the man stuck in the flood and god, but shorter.

    A man is dying of Covid and he asks god "why didn't you save me" and God replies "I gave you a safe effective vaccine available for free with no appointment at the place you stop at twice a week to buy racks of Busch Light"

    "but the libs! I had to own the liiiiiiibs!"

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  • evilmrhenryevilmrhenry Registered User regular



    BREAKING: U.S. reports more than 35,000 new coronavirus cases, biggest one-day increase since May
    U.S. COVID update: Biggest one-day increase since May, number in hospital continues to rise

    - New cases: 35,199
    - Average: 23,477 (+4,332)
    - In hospital: 19,409 (+558)
    - In ICU: 4,846 (+192)
    - New deaths: 277

    More data: https://newsnodes.com/us

    We're starting to see the impact of lifting restrictions prematurely. Cases are rising across almost all 50 states in the US. In my county, daily cases have risen from ~10 per day to ~40 per day.
    7LnOaiM.png

    Data captured from NewsNodes, which is where BNO sources their numbers.

    Ultimately it wasn't premature, unless you think anything before "we forcibly vaccinate 40% of the country" is premature. We had more than enough vaccine doses to get everyone vaccinated by now, people through various combinations of idiocy and laziness just haven't bothered. Over 99% of all deaths last month were among the unvaccinated.

    It's like the parable of the man stuck in the flood and god, but shorter.

    A man is dying of Covid and he asks god "why didn't you save me" and God replies "I gave you a safe effective vaccine available for free with no appointment at the place you stop at twice a week to buy racks of Busch Light"

    https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210520/racial-disparities-persist-in-vaccinations-cdc-data-shows
    But nationally, a dearth of transportation options, an inability to take off from work to get a vaccine, and concerns about documentation and privacy have dampened uptake among Hispanics, according to experts.
    This is not about stupid people getting what they deserve (death, apparently). This is about people who have legitimate problems getting access to the vaccine, and because this is America, that has everything to do with race. It's not enough to just make the vaccine available. It needs to be made available to people who live far away from vaccination sites, who aren't able to take time off from work, who don't speak English, who really don't want their name in a database.

    I could afford to take days off of work to get my two shots (several hours to head down to the vaccination center each time, plus a sick day the day after). Many people can't. While it's more available now than it was, I wonder how many places offering free, no appointment vaccinations are, say, Safeways in a major metropolitan area, and how many are Hispanic groceries. I wonder how many of the signs offering free vaccinations are just in English. I wonder how many people who haven't gotten vaccinated are working in fields all day, where going to the nearest city is a full day's trip.

    (As an example, here's a "free vaccines here, with a bonus" sign, in English only. This is a problem.)
    https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2021/05/13/bronx-vaccination-rates-still-lowest-in-the-city-

    My take is that we've gotten everyone who are willing to go out of their way to get the vaccine, and for the rest, we actually need to put some work in. An article I read compared this to canvassing voters in an election, where you need to be knocking on doors, talking to pastors, finding out where people are, and going to them. This isn't impossible. This isn't people who will never get the vaccine because they think it contains Satanist microchips, these are people who can be reached with a bit of effort.

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  • ChanusChanus Just venting, Not seeking solutions. Registered User regular
    those articles are from two months ago when we were just getting to the point of having enough supply for allowing people under 50 to get vaccinated without compounding health issues

    you couldn't get a walk-in vaccine appointment at any pharmacy two months ago

    the narrative that this is about anything other than political affiliation today is just false

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
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  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    those articles are from two months ago when we were just getting to the point of having enough supply for allowing people under 50 to get vaccinated without compounding health issues

    you couldn't get a walk-in vaccine appointment at any pharmacy two months ago

    the narrative that this is about anything other than political affiliation today is just false
    Its available anywhere and everywhere at this point. It's a willful choice. But we should check the data to see.

    I saw a FB argument that we should discount the political argument because actually unvaccinated deaths are due to not having vaccine but then it turned out people were mixing global data with US data.

  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    those articles are from two months ago when we were just getting to the point of having enough supply for allowing people under 50 to get vaccinated without compounding health issues

    you couldn't get a walk-in vaccine appointment at any pharmacy two months ago

    the narrative that this is about anything other than political affiliation today is just false

    Agreed, at this point anyone in America over the age of 12 who hasn't specifically discussed it with their doctor and been told they shouldn't get vaccinated for <specific legitimate medical reason> is being willfully negligent with their health and the health of others.

    There might be a few edge cases here and there, but there have been enough doses for long enough that everyone could / should have their shot by now. The disparities are gone and anyone with a reason that isn't specifically their doctor's advise is just trying to make excuses for their chosen behavior.

  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    those articles are from two months ago when we were just getting to the point of having enough supply for allowing people under 50 to get vaccinated without compounding health issues

    you couldn't get a walk-in vaccine appointment at any pharmacy two months ago

    the narrative that this is about anything other than political affiliation today is just false

    Agreed, at this point anyone in America over the age of 12 who hasn't specifically discussed it with their doctor and been told they shouldn't get vaccinated for <specific legitimate medical reason> is being willfully negligent with their health and the health of others.

    There might be a few edge cases here and there, but there have been enough doses for long enough that everyone could / should have their shot by now. The disparities are gone and anyone with a reason that isn't specifically their doctor's advise is just trying to make excuses for their chosen behavior.
    I don't think this is actually true. Economically diasdvantaged counties have less access to vaccines and lower vaccine rates. But so do Trump voting counties. It's hard to separate the two.

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  • ChanusChanus Just venting, Not seeking solutions. Registered User regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    those articles are from two months ago when we were just getting to the point of having enough supply for allowing people under 50 to get vaccinated without compounding health issues

    you couldn't get a walk-in vaccine appointment at any pharmacy two months ago

    the narrative that this is about anything other than political affiliation today is just false

    Agreed, at this point anyone in America over the age of 12 who hasn't specifically discussed it with their doctor and been told they shouldn't get vaccinated for <specific legitimate medical reason> is being willfully negligent with their health and the health of others.

    There might be a few edge cases here and there, but there have been enough doses for long enough that everyone could / should have their shot by now. The disparities are gone and anyone with a reason that isn't specifically their doctor's advise is just trying to make excuses for their chosen behavior.
    I don't think this is actually true. Economically diasdvantaged counties have less access to vaccines and lower vaccine rates. But so do Trump voting counties. It's hard to separate the two.

    there also doesn't tend to be a lot of separation between the two

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    those articles are from two months ago when we were just getting to the point of having enough supply for allowing people under 50 to get vaccinated without compounding health issues

    you couldn't get a walk-in vaccine appointment at any pharmacy two months ago

    the narrative that this is about anything other than political affiliation today is just false

    Agreed, at this point anyone in America over the age of 12 who hasn't specifically discussed it with their doctor and been told they shouldn't get vaccinated for <specific legitimate medical reason> is being willfully negligent with their health and the health of others.

    There might be a few edge cases here and there, but there have been enough doses for long enough that everyone could / should have their shot by now. The disparities are gone and anyone with a reason that isn't specifically their doctor's advise is just trying to make excuses for their chosen behavior.
    I don't think this is actually true. Economically diasdvantaged counties have less access to vaccines and lower vaccine rates. But so do Trump voting counties. It's hard to separate the two.

    there also doesn't tend to be a lot of separation between the two

    Disadvantaged areas in the city are low vaccine without being Trump strongholds.

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud
  • GilgaronGilgaron Registered User regular
    Everyone in my metro area that had trouble scheduling vaccination appointments drove out to rural counties because the locals weren't taking it and there was plenty laying around. The nurses at those clinics were happy their stock was going into arms but worried about their communities.

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  • ChanusChanus Just venting, Not seeking solutions. Registered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    those articles are from two months ago when we were just getting to the point of having enough supply for allowing people under 50 to get vaccinated without compounding health issues

    you couldn't get a walk-in vaccine appointment at any pharmacy two months ago

    the narrative that this is about anything other than political affiliation today is just false

    Agreed, at this point anyone in America over the age of 12 who hasn't specifically discussed it with their doctor and been told they shouldn't get vaccinated for <specific legitimate medical reason> is being willfully negligent with their health and the health of others.

    There might be a few edge cases here and there, but there have been enough doses for long enough that everyone could / should have their shot by now. The disparities are gone and anyone with a reason that isn't specifically their doctor's advise is just trying to make excuses for their chosen behavior.
    I don't think this is actually true. Economically diasdvantaged counties have less access to vaccines and lower vaccine rates. But so do Trump voting counties. It's hard to separate the two.

    there also doesn't tend to be a lot of separation between the two

    Disadvantaged areas in the city are low vaccine without being Trump strongholds.

    the question being are there current data showing that? everything claiming this is at least two months old and vaccine availability has changed dramatically in the last two months

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
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  • stopgapstopgap Registered User regular
    edited July 13
    I read an article this morning that is seeing correlation between making less than a certain dollar amount (50k a year) and not being vaccinated. I'll be in no way surprised if there are plenty of people that are still interested in the vaccine that don't have paid time off and risk losing hours if they have to call out sick.

    stopgap on
    Ticaldfjam
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    My cleaner (I am so posh) was worried about the vaccine but eventually got it. I think many working class minority people were wary of an experimental vaccine, but when they see others getting it with no serious ill effects they eventually get it, especially with walk-in vaccines available so they don't have to take time off work to make an appointment. Strident Trumpers and anti-vaxxers are a different matter, of course.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Polling shows ~30% of people saying they will not get the vaccine, and we are butting up against that with close to ~70% of all eligible being inoculated. At this point it is largely a matter of how soft that opposition is, and how best convinced/ coerced people can be to get the shot so that it will hopefully be driven down to the lowest ~10-20% of the death cult.

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  • GilgaronGilgaron Registered User regular
    With as contagious as the new variants appear to be, even if you gave Trump stock in Moderna to get him to hock it at his rallies I imagine these people are getting seroconverted in an uncontrolled manner pretty soon... I think the data was preliminary, but if it holds that vaccinated people are still spreading it asymptomatically then its going to be 'hold on to your butts' time at rural hospitals.

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Gilgaron wrote: »
    With as contagious as the new variants appear to be, even if you gave Trump stock in Moderna to get him to hock it at his rallies I imagine these people are getting seroconverted in an uncontrolled manner pretty soon... I think the data was preliminary, but if it holds that vaccinated people are still spreading it asymptomatically then its going to be 'hold on to your butts' time at rural hospitals.

    Hopefully the city hospitals will be able to take up the slack.

  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    Last polling I saw like a week ago only 6% of people wanted a first shot but hadn't gotten it.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Last polling I saw like a week ago only 6% of people wanted a first shot but hadn't gotten it.

    “Want” is different from “will accept if necessary”

  • ThawmusThawmus Registered User regular
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Just continuing to require people to wear masks would have been a big help.

    I've been watching people walk by "Masks are required to enter" signs without a mask on for the past 12 months, the requirements were never real to begin with.

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  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Just continuing to require people to wear masks would have been a big help.

    I've been watching people walk by "Masks are required to enter" signs without a mask on for the past 12 months, the requirements were never real to begin with.
    FWIW, here in Halifax in Canada, mask compliance still seems close to 100%. At the grocery store and Costco last night, everyone that I saw was wearing a mask, and all but one person were wearing them properly. And we’re getting close to the point where everyone who wants to be vaccinated and can be vaccinated has been fully vaccinated.

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  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited July 13
    If Trump hadn’t been president, I think he would probably have died. No experimental cocktail, no emergency authorization, etc.

    But his narcissism is so malignant and his idiocy so profound that instead of using the experience to convince his base that this is real and they needed to get the jab… well, you know.

    So we get to watch the Delta variant go screaming through the groups that refuse to vaccinate and hope it doesn’t change up in a way that makes our current vaccines obsolete.

    Imagine living during polio and refusing to vaccinate against it. It would have been unthinkable. But then, I’m the kind of person that hears conservatives wharrgarbl about how Biden is going to make these vaccines mandatory and thinks, “Man, if only.”

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Just continuing to require people to wear masks would have been a big help.

    I've been watching people walk by "Masks are required to enter" signs without a mask on for the past 12 months, the requirements were never real to begin with.

    The sign says "required to enter" but if those in charge of the stores aren't willing to take a stance at actually enforcing the rules, then what motivation is there for anyone to actually follow the sign?

    "Well they'll ring me up anyway" is not much of a deterrance.

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  • ThawmusThawmus Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Incenjucar wrote: »
    Just continuing to require people to wear masks would have been a big help.

    I've been watching people walk by "Masks are required to enter" signs without a mask on for the past 12 months, the requirements were never real to begin with.

    The sign says "required to enter" but if those in charge of the stores aren't willing to take a stance at actually enforcing the rules, then what motivation is there for anyone to actually follow the sign?

    "Well they'll ring me up anyway" is not much of a deterrance.

    To be frank, nobody in the service/retail industry, from the manager on down, is paid enough to put their life on the line like that (well they're not paid enough, period, but that's another topic).

    And make no mistake, that's exactly what they're thinking about when they're calculating if they should enforce the requirement or not. x2 for a red state, x3 if your governor is a shithead and never implemented a mask mandate, and even urged businesses to stay open and maintain normal operations at the start of the pandemic.

    Hell, my employer had a mask mandate and I was one of two people in the whole company following it. The guy in charge of enforcing it, sending us emails regularly to remind us that masks are required, refused to wear one and never enforced it because, "masks are political."

    I just think some of you are way out of touch with how badly parts of this country threw themselves at the virus, and would and will continue to do so, no matter what policy you put in place. After 12+ months of this shit I'm absolutely done giving a shit if they fuck around and find out anymore.

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  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    Also, the guidance from the CDC was that fully vaccinated people were ok to go without masks. The data showing 99.5% of Covid deaths being the unvaccinated sort of shows that they were right.

    The unvaccinated people going maskless now were the same people going maskless before.

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  • ChanusChanus Just venting, Not seeking solutions. Registered User regular
    Marathon wrote: »
    Also, the guidance from the CDC was that fully vaccinated people were ok to go without masks. The data showing 99.5% of Covid deaths being the unvaccinated sort of shows that they were right.

    The unvaccinated people going maskless now were the same people going maskless before.

    it doesn't at all show that they were right

    vaccinated people can still be catching and spreading the virus, and that is generally thought to be the issue with the delta variant spreading

    Allegedly a voice of reason.
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  • ChanusChanus Just venting, Not seeking solutions. Registered User regular
    edited July 13
    99.5% of deaths being unvaccinated people shows that the vaccine saves lives even when people get sick

    Chanus on
    Allegedly a voice of reason.
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  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    Chanus wrote: »
    Marathon wrote: »
    Also, the guidance from the CDC was that fully vaccinated people were ok to go without masks. The data showing 99.5% of Covid deaths being the unvaccinated sort of shows that they were right.

    The unvaccinated people going maskless now were the same people going maskless before.

    it doesn't at all show that they were right

    vaccinated people can still be catching and spreading the virus, and that is generally thought to be the issue with the delta variant spreading

    Is there data to support that? As far as I understand it, fully vaccinated people might get sick, but they aren’t shedding enough of a viral load to infect someone else.

    Why would the spread of the delta variant be attributed to vaccinated people catching and spreading it instead of the more likely scenario of the unvaccinated catching the Delta variant and spreading it because they have no defense?

  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Marathon wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Marathon wrote: »
    Also, the guidance from the CDC was that fully vaccinated people were ok to go without masks. The data showing 99.5% of Covid deaths being the unvaccinated sort of shows that they were right.

    The unvaccinated people going maskless now were the same people going maskless before.

    it doesn't at all show that they were right

    vaccinated people can still be catching and spreading the virus, and that is generally thought to be the issue with the delta variant spreading

    Is there data to support that? As far as I understand it, fully vaccinated people might get sick, but they aren’t shedding enough of a viral load to infect someone else.

    Why would the spread of the delta variant be attributed to vaccinated people catching and spreading it instead of the more likely scenario of the unvaccinated catching the Delta variant and spreading it because they have no defense?

    Some preliminary research seems to show that Delta replicates at much higher rates in the airways than previous versions, and that is the hardest spot in the body for the antibodies to lock down. So you get a large virus spike in the place that it is easiest to transmit. So even in vaccinated folks that are asymptomatic they might be producing plenty of virus to spread. The findings are still very early yet.

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  • ChanusChanus Just venting, Not seeking solutions. Registered User regular
    Marathon wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Marathon wrote: »
    Also, the guidance from the CDC was that fully vaccinated people were ok to go without masks. The data showing 99.5% of Covid deaths being the unvaccinated sort of shows that they were right.

    The unvaccinated people going maskless now were the same people going maskless before.

    it doesn't at all show that they were right

    vaccinated people can still be catching and spreading the virus, and that is generally thought to be the issue with the delta variant spreading

    Is there data to support that? As far as I understand it, fully vaccinated people might get sick, but they aren’t shedding enough of a viral load to infect someone else.

    Why would the spread of the delta variant be attributed to vaccinated people catching and spreading it instead of the more likely scenario of the unvaccinated catching the Delta variant and spreading it because they have no defense?

    well for one thing the stat would be 100% if vaccinated people weren't getting sick

    like literally all of the news about the delta variant mentions how the vaccines are less effective at preventing it (though still effective), and that vaccinated people can still be transmitting it

    the vaccine isn't an immunity cloak, it just greatly reduces the chances of getting sick or having life threatening symptoms

    also, to be clear, i'm not saying only vaccinated people are spreading the delta variant, i'm saying the data are pretty clear that some vaccinated people are, and as such, allowing vaccinated people to go maskless, especially indoors, is looking like it's turning out to be a bad decision, or at the very least is definitely not a decision that has been proven correct

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Marathon wrote: »
    Chanus wrote: »
    Marathon wrote: »
    Also, the guidance from the CDC was that fully vaccinated people were ok to go without masks. The data showing 99.5% of Covid deaths being the unvaccinated sort of shows that they were right.

    The unvaccinated people going maskless now were the same people going maskless before.

    it doesn't at all show that they were right

    vaccinated people can still be catching and spreading the virus, and that is generally thought to be the issue with the delta variant spreading

    Is there data to support that? As far as I understand it, fully vaccinated people might get sick, but they aren’t shedding enough of a viral load to infect someone else.

    Why would the spread of the delta variant be attributed to vaccinated people catching and spreading it instead of the more likely scenario of the unvaccinated catching the Delta variant and spreading it because they have no defense?
    Swaminathan warned that vaccinated people can still get Covid and pass it on to others, which is why WHO officials have been urging people to continue wearing masks and practice social distancing. “But certainly it reduces your chances of severe hospitalization and death significantly,” she added.

    Some studies have shown that those infected with Covid after vaccination produce much less virus than those who are unvaccinated, reducing the risk of passing the virus to others. WHO officials said that more studies are needed to understand the vaccines’ impact on transmissibility.
    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/12/most-fully-vaccinated-people-who-get-covid-delta-infections-are-asymptomatic-who-says-.html

    Current evidence suggests vaccinated people spread it less. But they can still spread it.

    Also, vaccinated people are still getting it:
    People who are fully vaccinated against Covid-19 are still getting infected with the delta variant, but global health officials said the shots have protected most people from getting severely sick or dying.

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Perpetual reminder: When you are talking about "the unvaccinated" you are talking about my nieces.

    Is their being under 9 years old "fucking around" and thus finding out? I guess they should pull themselves up by their bootstraps and invent near lightspeed travel to get some time dilation going and stop free riding on time's arrow.

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