I can see this from both perspectives (father of 4 here). Should your son have bounced the ball at her? No. It was a stupid thing to do (boys doing stupid things at that age is no excuse, there should still be consequences.) Should she have hit him (let alone repeatedly?)? No. That was an unnecessary escalation. Plenty of bad decisions and blame to go around.
No one party is completely innocent. If it were me, I would have a talk with the parents on my own and let them know that my child is being held accountable for his part in what occurred, and apologize for his behavior. Put the ball in their court and see what they have to say. They might be mortified at what their daughter did. They might not. I would have no expectations other than trying to keep it from happening again, or continuing. Depending on that conversation I would perhaps contact the police and start a paper trail since technically she committed battery.
Either way, I wish you the best of luck.
“Think of me like Yoda, but instead of being little and green I wear suits and I'm awesome. I'm your bro—I'm Broda!”
I talked to her mother the other day when I was getting my mail she apologized & asked if my son was alright and I said "yeah he just got his face mangled but was starting to heal up" she said her daughter was okay too and just had some bruises but she grounded her for a week and assured me she won't be fighting anyone ever again. I told her it was OK and apologized for him bouncing the ball at her daughter & that he needs to learn not to be a smart Alec all the time and that he'll just have to live and learn. He's still pretty torn about getting his face rearranged and I told him not to let it bother him so much and don't let that the fact it was by a girl let it bother him either.
He seemed to cheer up somewhat when one of his buddies who saw the fight admitted he was scared of her too. I think he was being dead serious! Like I said I would of never guessed that girl had it in her, she always seemed like a nice kid, (she reminds me of Annie from the show Community.) Just another life lesson, I told him it's not like he's the only kid to ever get beat up by a girl or anything.
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BouwsTWanna come to a super soft birthday party?Registered Userregular
edited July 2016
Annie can be pretty ruthless man, don't you remember her framing their landlord, Rick?
Edit: I'm glad you had an amicable conversation with the other parent, and hope your kids can get along in the future. Who knows, this might make a cute "how I met your mother" story in a number of years.
BouwsT on
Between you and me, Peggy, I smoked this Juul and it did UNTHINKABLE things to my mind and body...
Annie can be pretty ruthless man, don't you remember her framing their landlord, Rick?
Edit: I'm glad you had an amicable conversation with the other parent, and hope your kids can get along in the future. Who knows, this might make a cute "how I met your mother" story in a number of years.
"I knew she was beating my ass but I didn't realize until years later she was also beating my heart"
If you haven't done so, I would enroll your kid into a good judo or jiujitsu program. Not a striking based martial art, but a grappling based one.
Learning how to defend yourself, in a way that doesn't depend upon size or strength, in a way that basically results in zero injuries for either party, that's a great skill to have throughout life. And a huge confidence boost for kids too, or at least it was for me as a small third grader, which is when I first started taking judo.
If you haven't done so, I would enroll your kid into a good judo or jiujitsu program. Not a striking based martial art, but a grappling based one.
Learning how to defend yourself, in a way that doesn't depend upon size or strength, in a way that basically results in zero injuries for either party, that's a great skill to have throughout life. And a huge confidence boost for kids too, or at least it was for me as a small third grader, which is when I first started taking judo.
I disagree. "being an ass sometimes" does not pair well with martial arts.
This was in no way a situation that would have gotten better if he had been able to win the fight.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
If you haven't done so, I would enroll your kid into a good judo or jiujitsu program. Not a striking based martial art, but a grappling based one.
Learning how to defend yourself, in a way that doesn't depend upon size or strength, in a way that basically results in zero injuries for either party, that's a great skill to have throughout life. And a huge confidence boost for kids too, or at least it was for me as a small third grader, which is when I first started taking judo.
I disagree. "being an ass sometimes" does not pair well with martial arts.
This was in no way a situation that would have gotten better if he had been able to win the fight.
A person prone to getting in fights should have martial arts training as an outlet for aggression, discipline to control physical outbursts of emotion, and technique to ensure that next time someone doesn't go to the hospital or jail. The girl would probably benefit. The kid would if he was actually interested. Otherwise it's a waste of time and money.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
If you haven't done so, I would enroll your kid into a good judo or jiujitsu program. Not a striking based martial art, but a grappling based one.
Learning how to defend yourself, in a way that doesn't depend upon size or strength, in a way that basically results in zero injuries for either party, that's a great skill to have throughout life. And a huge confidence boost for kids too, or at least it was for me as a small third grader, which is when I first started taking judo.
I disagree. "being an ass sometimes" does not pair well with martial arts.
This was in no way a situation that would have gotten better if he had been able to win the fight.
Depends on the studio/trainers. The ones I take my kids to spend a great deal of time advocating for avoidance of conflict, de-escalation, and basic respect of others. I've never met a Cobra Kai type trainer.
If you haven't done so, I would enroll your kid into a good judo or jiujitsu program. Not a striking based martial art, but a grappling based one.
Learning how to defend yourself, in a way that doesn't depend upon size or strength, in a way that basically results in zero injuries for either party, that's a great skill to have throughout life. And a huge confidence boost for kids too, or at least it was for me as a small third grader, which is when I first started taking judo.
I disagree. "being an ass sometimes" does not pair well with martial arts.
This was in no way a situation that would have gotten better if he had been able to win the fight.
Depends on the studio/trainers. The ones I take my kids to spend a great deal of time advocating for avoidance of conflict, de-escalation, and basic respect of others. I've never met a Cobra Kai type trainer.
It's basically just an athletic hobby. Like a school musical program, it won't do much of anything unless you put something into it. A lot of them are either aerobics classes or daycares in disguise. I find the best way to judge them is by the disposition of their veteran students.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
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FiggyFighter of the night manChampion of the sunRegistered Userregular
I think the very principal behind those programs begins with violence avoidance.
If you haven't done so, I would enroll your kid into a good judo or jiujitsu program. Not a striking based martial art, but a grappling based one.
Learning how to defend yourself, in a way that doesn't depend upon size or strength, in a way that basically results in zero injuries for either party, that's a great skill to have throughout life. And a huge confidence boost for kids too, or at least it was for me as a small third grader, which is when I first started taking judo.
No such thing in a real fight, which is the only situation that martial arts should be getting used in outside of sanctioned matches due to Dunning-Kruger effect being in full force for pretty much anyone who's not in MMA.
You know I thought I remember reading something on yahoo or some other site not that long ago about how fighting is on the rise with school age girls and they think it's due to how they have more role models now than ever. Things like female mma fighters and TV and movies depicting strong characters especially the super hero movies. Can't believe I just now rememberd that. That's something else I could run by him to maybe lift his spirts?
You know I thought I remember reading something on yahoo or some other site not that long ago about how fighting is on the rise with school age girls and they think it's due to how they have more role models now than ever. Things like female mma fighters and TV and movies depicting strong characters especially the super hero movies. Can't believe I just now rememberd that. That's something else I could run by him to maybe lift his spirts?
I think you might be getting ahead of yourself. I think what he's worried about most is what his friends think of him now, not the origins of teenage female violence. I doubt he can take this yahoo answer to his friends.
That's me speculating too though, as communication with 13 year olds is very fog of war. If you think it'll help, go for it; the worst he can do is add to your eyeroll counter
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Sort of a follow up on this situation, usually my son goes to a school Christmas party/dance for the last couple years but told me he's not going this year and said he doesn't really feel like it. I though it was a bit strange because he usually really looks forward to it. So I asked my niece who goes to the same school yesterday if there was any reason why he wouldn't want to go this year, and apparently there's another girl classmate of his that's been giving him the gears and mocking him in recent weeks when she found out about him losing the fight to the neighborhood girl in the summer. My niece thinks he's paranoid and afraid of getting beat up by her too if he goes to the party.
Does anyone think I should bring this up to him and open up old wounds and go through the whole awkward "there's nothing wrong with being scared of a girl" thing or should I leave it alone?
Sort of a follow up on this situation, usually my son goes to a school Christmas party/dance for the last couple years but told me he's not going this year and said he doesn't really feel like it. I though it was a bit strange because he usually really looks forward to it. So I asked my niece who goes to the same school yesterday if there was any reason why he wouldn't want to go this year, and apparently there's another girl classmate of his that's been giving him the gears and mocking him in recent weeks when she found out about him losing the fight to the neighborhood girl in the summer. My niece thinks he's paranoid and afraid of getting beat up by her too if he goes to the party.
Does anyone think I should bring this up to him and open up old wounds and go through the whole awkward "there's nothing wrong with being scared of a girl" thing or should I leave it along?
Those old wounds clearly exist whether or not you talk about them.
I'm no psychologist put I personally think it's better to try to open that up and give him your support and guidance rather than for him to pretend it's not still ongoing and to let it remain bottled up and fester.
I mean, look at it this way: This is the first time he's expressed that he doesn't want to go. You're just trying to address that as his father. Maybe he'll be shitty about you prying because he may not want to think about it at all - I dunno - but it may be better in the long run to get it out in the open (as diplomatically as possible) and try to heal the wound as best as you can.
That said, I absolutely would not frame this as "my niece thinks you're afraid of a different girl, is that why you don't want to go to the party?" because, to a teenager, that could feel like a whole host of things - like he's being ganged up on, like you're trying to control his behavior by pulling emotional levers, like you're betraying his trust by talking to other family members about him behind your back, etc. Those criticisms may not be fair, but that's how some teenagers sometimes think (I don't know your son from Adam, but it's a risk, at the very least).
I would just tell him that you think it's a little bit out of character for him not to go and you were wondering if there were any reasons and that you're here for him if he wants to discuss it. Try to convince him that going to the party is a good idea (assuming you think it is - which it sounds like you do). And if he pushes you, fess up that your niece spoke to you. I just wouldn't approach him with that to begin with.
edit: Also, your niece may just be wrong. She may be totally right, she may be totally wrong, or she may be half-right. There could be any number of reasons he doesn't want to go. Or it could be a compound reason with the girl thing being one aspect of it. I was a morose and moody kid when I was 13 (literally 2/3 of my life ago, eep!) but the reasons I was morose and moody were rarely singular. I don't know that I ever did or didn't do something for only one reason.
"I would just tell him that you think it's a little bit out of character for him not to go and you were wondering if there were any reasons and that you're here for him if he wants to discuss it. Try to convince him that going to the party is a good idea (assuming you think it is - which it sounds like you do). And if he pushes you, fess up that your niece spoke to you. I just wouldn't approach him with that to begin with."
Thanks Drez! I think I'm gonna try that and see what comes of it.
"I would just tell him that you think it's a little bit out of character for him not to go and you were wondering if there were any reasons and that you're here for him if he wants to discuss it. Try to convince him that going to the party is a good idea (assuming you think it is - which it sounds like you do). And if he pushes you, fess up that your niece spoke to you. I just wouldn't approach him with that to begin with."
Thanks Drez! I think I'm gonna try that and see what comes of it.
NP, good luck!
Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
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ceresWhen the last moon is cast over the last star of morningAnd the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderatormod
Don't bring your niece into the conversation at all; it just means he can't trust her. It's really hard to feel like people are ganging up on you like that.
You don't really know what the issue is exactly, and it could be so many different things. Maybe he doesn't feel safe, or maybe he's grown out of the parties and thinks they're kind of dumb now. I remember when I was just about a year older than him I realized that they really weren't fun and I spent most of the time looking at my watch. No one I really wanted to talk to went, and the whole thing was awkward.
I don't mean to say the other stuff isn't a problem, just that it's an age when your idea of "fun" tends to shift and it might not be something he feels like he'll enjoy anymore. It really may not be related at all. Focus on his safety; the dance is beside the point. If the problem with going is that he's anxious about it then that's a symptom; addressing the fear itself might help the underlying cause, and if so the dance may sort itself out.
And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
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Giggles_FunsworthBlight on DiscourseBay Area SprawlRegistered Userregular
Most of the advice here is great. I would really suggest less focus on gender though. It definitely seems like something that is fairly internalized with you and he's almost certainly picking up on that. He got beat up by a person. Sometimes that happens when you fuck with people. If anybody makes fun of him for it he can tell them she threw a heck of a punch and he advises they don't tangle with her. If he's upset about scarring just reassure him with the fact that facial scars make you look like a badass.
If he's still having trouble with confidence a defensive martial art seems like a great idea.
How did things pan out with the girl's parents? When I punched a girl in second grade it was the start of a long term friendship between our parents, and she's one of the only people from my childhood peers I'm still vaguely in touch with. Sounds like all parents involved are doing a pretty great job handling the situation.
Really dude, you seem like a good dad.
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Inquisitor772 x Penny Arcade Fight Club ChampionA fixed point in space and timeRegistered Userregular
Second on the don't bring the niece into it. It's unfair to her and frankly your son won't interpret it properly because he's not mature enough to do so.
Focus on helping him, not on what you heard and who told it to you. Chances are if you show you care, that's halfway to solving the problem. Show you care, give him a chance to express himself, and be as generally supportive as possible.
There are a lot of things in life, especially with people, that you can't fix even if you know what the problem is. This is very much one of those things. And that assumes there's even something to fix, like a leaky faucet, in the first place.
Just support him and give him the tools to be able to emotionally manage what to him is a difficult situation. Whether that's helping with his confidence, giving him an outlet, finding ways for him to cope, whatever. This thing with girls and getting beat up might be a big deal, but it's just one thing out of many, many things that will happen to him across his entire life. You aren't going to be able to identify the exact problem and the exact fix for every single one.
Most of the advice here is great. I would really suggest less focus
How did things pan out with the girl's parents? When I punched a girl in second grade it was the start of a long term friendship between our parents, and she's one of the only people from my childhood peers I'm still vaguely in touch with. Sounds like all parents involved are doing a pretty great job handling the situation.
Really dude, you seem like a good dad.
Thanks! Oh yeah I still talk with that girls parents from time to time, they're cool that whole situation is water under the bridge now. My son and their daughter are square with each other but keep their distance for the most part.
@Scott7 Hi, I'm new to this site. It's now been five years since the incident between your son and the girl. I was wondering how things turned out. Did your son and the girl ever become friends? Did he and her apologize to each other face-to-face? When he threw the golf ball was he trying to get her attention because he had/has a crush on her? I know how he feels. I'm the oldest and I have a younger sister. We were in the backyard one day and I was teasing her and joking with her. She was getting mad. She kicked me in the back of the leg causing me to trip. I fell on my stomach, then I rolled over on my back. Big mistake. She pinned me down and repeatedly punched me in the face. Blood was dripping from my nose. My best friend walked in and saw it. My neighbor came to break it up. And our parents saw it happening. Needless to say I was humiliated and it was a bad day. Me being bigger and weighing more did not help me at all. It took a week for us to make up. She apologized sooner than that, but I was too stubborn and embarassed. Soon we were back in a place where we were friends again.
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No one party is completely innocent. If it were me, I would have a talk with the parents on my own and let them know that my child is being held accountable for his part in what occurred, and apologize for his behavior. Put the ball in their court and see what they have to say. They might be mortified at what their daughter did. They might not. I would have no expectations other than trying to keep it from happening again, or continuing. Depending on that conversation I would perhaps contact the police and start a paper trail since technically she committed battery.
Either way, I wish you the best of luck.
He seemed to cheer up somewhat when one of his buddies who saw the fight admitted he was scared of her too. I think he was being dead serious! Like I said I would of never guessed that girl had it in her, she always seemed like a nice kid, (she reminds me of Annie from the show Community.) Just another life lesson, I told him it's not like he's the only kid to ever get beat up by a girl or anything.
Edit: I'm glad you had an amicable conversation with the other parent, and hope your kids can get along in the future. Who knows, this might make a cute "how I met your mother" story in a number of years.
"I knew she was beating my ass but I didn't realize until years later she was also beating my heart"
Learning how to defend yourself, in a way that doesn't depend upon size or strength, in a way that basically results in zero injuries for either party, that's a great skill to have throughout life. And a huge confidence boost for kids too, or at least it was for me as a small third grader, which is when I first started taking judo.
I disagree. "being an ass sometimes" does not pair well with martial arts.
This was in no way a situation that would have gotten better if he had been able to win the fight.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
A person prone to getting in fights should have martial arts training as an outlet for aggression, discipline to control physical outbursts of emotion, and technique to ensure that next time someone doesn't go to the hospital or jail. The girl would probably benefit. The kid would if he was actually interested. Otherwise it's a waste of time and money.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Depends on the studio/trainers. The ones I take my kids to spend a great deal of time advocating for avoidance of conflict, de-escalation, and basic respect of others. I've never met a Cobra Kai type trainer.
It's basically just an athletic hobby. Like a school musical program, it won't do much of anything unless you put something into it. A lot of them are either aerobics classes or daycares in disguise. I find the best way to judge them is by the disposition of their veteran students.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
No such thing in a real fight, which is the only situation that martial arts should be getting used in outside of sanctioned matches due to Dunning-Kruger effect being in full force for pretty much anyone who's not in MMA.
I think you might be getting ahead of yourself. I think what he's worried about most is what his friends think of him now, not the origins of teenage female violence. I doubt he can take this yahoo answer to his friends.
That's me speculating too though, as communication with 13 year olds is very fog of war. If you think it'll help, go for it; the worst he can do is add to your eyeroll counter
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Does anyone think I should bring this up to him and open up old wounds and go through the whole awkward "there's nothing wrong with being scared of a girl" thing or should I leave it alone?
Those old wounds clearly exist whether or not you talk about them.
I'm no psychologist put I personally think it's better to try to open that up and give him your support and guidance rather than for him to pretend it's not still ongoing and to let it remain bottled up and fester.
I mean, look at it this way: This is the first time he's expressed that he doesn't want to go. You're just trying to address that as his father. Maybe he'll be shitty about you prying because he may not want to think about it at all - I dunno - but it may be better in the long run to get it out in the open (as diplomatically as possible) and try to heal the wound as best as you can.
That said, I absolutely would not frame this as "my niece thinks you're afraid of a different girl, is that why you don't want to go to the party?" because, to a teenager, that could feel like a whole host of things - like he's being ganged up on, like you're trying to control his behavior by pulling emotional levers, like you're betraying his trust by talking to other family members about him behind your back, etc. Those criticisms may not be fair, but that's how some teenagers sometimes think (I don't know your son from Adam, but it's a risk, at the very least).
I would just tell him that you think it's a little bit out of character for him not to go and you were wondering if there were any reasons and that you're here for him if he wants to discuss it. Try to convince him that going to the party is a good idea (assuming you think it is - which it sounds like you do). And if he pushes you, fess up that your niece spoke to you. I just wouldn't approach him with that to begin with.
edit: Also, your niece may just be wrong. She may be totally right, she may be totally wrong, or she may be half-right. There could be any number of reasons he doesn't want to go. Or it could be a compound reason with the girl thing being one aspect of it. I was a morose and moody kid when I was 13 (literally 2/3 of my life ago, eep!) but the reasons I was morose and moody were rarely singular. I don't know that I ever did or didn't do something for only one reason.
Thanks Drez! I think I'm gonna try that and see what comes of it.
NP, good luck!
You don't really know what the issue is exactly, and it could be so many different things. Maybe he doesn't feel safe, or maybe he's grown out of the parties and thinks they're kind of dumb now. I remember when I was just about a year older than him I realized that they really weren't fun and I spent most of the time looking at my watch. No one I really wanted to talk to went, and the whole thing was awkward.
I don't mean to say the other stuff isn't a problem, just that it's an age when your idea of "fun" tends to shift and it might not be something he feels like he'll enjoy anymore. It really may not be related at all. Focus on his safety; the dance is beside the point. If the problem with going is that he's anxious about it then that's a symptom; addressing the fear itself might help the underlying cause, and if so the dance may sort itself out.
If he's still having trouble with confidence a defensive martial art seems like a great idea.
How did things pan out with the girl's parents? When I punched a girl in second grade it was the start of a long term friendship between our parents, and she's one of the only people from my childhood peers I'm still vaguely in touch with. Sounds like all parents involved are doing a pretty great job handling the situation.
Really dude, you seem like a good dad.
Focus on helping him, not on what you heard and who told it to you. Chances are if you show you care, that's halfway to solving the problem. Show you care, give him a chance to express himself, and be as generally supportive as possible.
There are a lot of things in life, especially with people, that you can't fix even if you know what the problem is. This is very much one of those things. And that assumes there's even something to fix, like a leaky faucet, in the first place.
Just support him and give him the tools to be able to emotionally manage what to him is a difficult situation. Whether that's helping with his confidence, giving him an outlet, finding ways for him to cope, whatever. This thing with girls and getting beat up might be a big deal, but it's just one thing out of many, many things that will happen to him across his entire life. You aren't going to be able to identify the exact problem and the exact fix for every single one.