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The Locked Tomb Series (open spoilers for Gideon and Harrow! Nona the Ninth is out!)

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  • EtiowsaEtiowsa Registered User regular
    Etiowsa wrote: »
    Yes, we need a thread for these wonderful books.

    Post Harrow:
    I'm still not sold on Necrolord/Emperor/John Gaius being super ultra evil. He's definitely shifty and not being fully honest with folks but I'm not sure he's moustache twirling.

    My big question is what the hell Al(ecto) is.
    I'm operating under the absurd assumption that Alecto was the first resurrection beast. It would kinda make sense with one of them being unaccounted for and apparently verboten, the other lyctors fear and disgust regarding her, and here apparent hostility towards them.

    I don’t think so
    It is outright stated that the resurrection Beasts are the souls of the dead planets that Necrolord Prime killed.

    I don’t THINK he’s lying about that regard, because it tracks. There are nine houses, nine resurrection Beasts, and nine planets in our solar system (which is kinda implied to be where this takes place)
    That doesn't really counter the theory though. The thanergy bloom created by the death of the solar system and everything in it is likely what John used to become a necromancer in the first place.

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    Etiowsa wrote: »
    Yes, we need a thread for these wonderful books.

    Post Harrow:
    I'm still not sold on Necrolord/Emperor/John Gaius being super ultra evil. He's definitely shifty and not being fully honest with folks but I'm not sure he's moustache twirling.

    My big question is what the hell Al(ecto) is.
    I'm operating under the absurd assumption that Alecto was the first resurrection beast. It would kinda make sense with one of them being unaccounted for and apparently verboten, the other lyctors fear and disgust regarding her, and here apparent hostility towards them.

    I don’t think so
    It is outright stated that the resurrection Beasts are the souls of the dead planets that Necrolord Prime killed.

    I don’t THINK he’s lying about that regard, because it tracks. There are nine houses, nine resurrection Beasts, and nine planets in our solar system (which is kinda implied to be where this takes place)
    yeah and I think when Earth's resurrection beast took form it looked like Alecto and John somehow decided he could make nice with it

    I think there's things John lies about and things he absolutely believes to be true but is dreadfully wrong about, and "I can do the fusion dance with the collective soul of my dead homeworld" is one of the latter

    Fair.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    Harrow Act 5 speculation:
    Oh my god is Gideon going to be the adopted adept that would be hilarious. I probably shouldn't expect that though or i'll end up disappointed when she isn't.

  • LeumasWhiteLeumasWhite New ZealandRegistered User regular
    I appreciate that all it takes is a couple extra exclamation marks to get across how shrill and awful Mercy is.

    QPPHj1J.jpg
  • EtiowsaEtiowsa Registered User regular
    Mercy is terrible and I love her. She's just eternally peeved at everything.

  • Lost SalientLost Salient blink twice if you'd like me to mercy kill youRegistered User regular
    Wow thank you

    Now I don't think I can think of the Lyctoral process in any other way
    Also if that theory was true then the whole thing about "your cavalier can survive the process" goes out the goddamn window unless your cavalier is an undead planet monster, or certainly there's APPRECIABLY less good reason to believe it would work and both could survive if you're just Normal Folks

    RUVCwyu.jpg
    "Sandra has a good solid anti-murderer vibe. My skin felt very secure and sufficiently attached to my body when I met her. Also my organs." HAIL SATAN
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Wow thank you

    Now I don't think I can think of the Lyctoral process in any other way
    Also if that theory was true then the whole thing about "your cavalier can survive the process" goes out the goddamn window unless your cavalier is an undead planet monster, or certainly there's APPRECIABLY less good reason to believe it would work and both could survive if you're just Normal Folks

    Post Harrow Epilogue:
    Yeah, except Camilla's eyes have changed to look just like Pal's and neither of them are weird ass space god descended. I feel like there absolutely is a Perfect Lyctor process though what that is hasn't been made clear. With the strong romance vibe I'm gonna wager it has to do with a mutual self-sacrifice style of thing where each continually gives their life for the other.
    Peewi wrote: »
    How that sure sucks if you've already bought it huh? Well...Amazon's preview includes the glossary AND the entire short story. Click the "Look Inside" entry on the picture and search for Glossary and then "Intelligence Files" for the short story.

    Do you have a link? I looked for it and the preview I found was just the first few chapters.

    That's why I suggested searching for those terms because the new stuff is late in the book. Also make sure you're previewing the paperback version of the book and not the Kindle one.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
  • PeewiPeewi Registered User regular
    That's what I thought I did. Anyway, I found it now.
    The explanation for Commander Wake's name is kinda neat.

  • AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    edited August 2021
    ... huh


    E: ... huh

    Aistan on
  • Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    I really enjoyed Gideon, but didn't make it far into Harrow because I just do not enjoy second-person prose. Does it continue that way through the whole book?

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    I really enjoyed Gideon, but didn't make it far into Harrow because I just do not enjoy second-person prose. Does it continue that way through the whole book?

    Mostly? Yes.

    I hated it too, but there is a payoff that made suffering through it worth it.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    The other forum I'm on has Quest games as big part of its forum culture, so I've grown an affection for second person perspective, myself. It was fun seeing it in a published book.

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    cB557 wrote: »
    The other forum I'm on has Quest games as big part of its forum culture, so I've grown an affection for second person perspective, myself. It was fun seeing it in a published book.

    Oh I despise it.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    For what it’s worth Brovid, I hated Harrow for about 75% of the book but that last 25% makes up for it n spades.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    On some level I feel like Muir actively tried to make Harrow as challenging (or difficult if you aren't being charitable) as possible.

    Which I completely felt.
    So much of the book is confusing on purpose. The false memories, unreliable to flat out deceptive narrator, and long grotesque prose makes the whole damn thing almost impenetrable.

    For example, the whole description of The River goes on for multiple pages!

    Then you layer on flashbacks and flash forwards which, again, are as likely to be complete lies as they are true. And that's not even the end because then Muir adds in alternate dimensions!

    The whole thing should have collapsed under the weight of it's own cleverness, but the whole thing turns into an elegant magic trick by the end.

    It's just marvelous and I don't know the last time I I read a series that I just find myself thinking about almost every day.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    It's funny, I'm so used to not seeing 2nd person it didn't even click that I was reading in 2nd person till about 3/4 of the way through the book. By that time I was used to it.

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  • MalReynoldsMalReynolds The Hunter S Thompson of incredibly mild medicines Registered User regular
    A little over halfway through Gideon, but does anyone make a reference to The Night the Skeletons Came to Life, how they pull your hair up but not out, how bones are their money, etc

    "A new take on the epic fantasy genre... Darkly comic, relatable characters... twisted storyline."
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  • DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    I read Gideon and Harrow back to back, and then reread then several months later. I appreciated Gideon more the first time, but Harrow the second time.

  • AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    Ch48
    "That awe-inspiring painting of the banging cavalier holding a melon, with her necromancer friend standing on a plinth while the wind blew leaves to hide his junk. That was art."

    I agree, Gideon. I've missed you.

  • knitdanknitdan In ur base Killin ur guysRegistered User regular
    I checked out the Glossary and the Intelligence Files from the Harrow paperback preview

    Some interesting stuff there for sure

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
  • Lost SalientLost Salient blink twice if you'd like me to mercy kill youRegistered User regular
    edited August 2021
    Wow thank you

    Now I don't think I can think of the Lyctoral process in any other way
    Also if that theory was true then the whole thing about "your cavalier can survive the process" goes out the goddamn window unless your cavalier is an undead planet monster, or certainly there's APPRECIABLY less good reason to believe it would work and both could survive if you're just Normal Folks

    Post Harrow Epilogue:
    Yeah, except Camilla's eyes have changed to look just like Pal's and neither of them are weird ass space god descended. I feel like there absolutely is a Perfect Lyctor process though what that is hasn't been made clear. With the strong romance vibe I'm gonna wager it has to do with a mutual self-sacrifice style of thing where each continually gives their life for the other.
    No I agree with you - I think it's patently clear that it is possible and that certain partiiiiies lied about it, and that's why Mercy and Augustine are flamin' hot cheetos level mad as hell at John after. My point was that is stops being a logical deduction for Mercy, Augustine or ANYONE to make that "the perfect lyctoral process is possible without killing the cavalier" on the basis that Alecto survived the process, if they also know that she's a resurrection beast as proposed by Etiowsa:
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    Etiowsa wrote: »
    Yes, we need a thread for these wonderful books.

    Post Harrow:
    I'm still not sold on Necrolord/Emperor/John Gaius being super ultra evil. He's definitely shifty and not being fully honest with folks but I'm not sure he's moustache twirling.

    My big question is what the hell Al(ecto) is.

    I'm operating under the absurd assumption that Alecto was the first resurrection beast. It would kinda make sense with one of them being unaccounted for and apparently verboten, the other lyctors fear and disgust regarding her, and here apparent hostility towards them.

    I don’t think so

    It is outright stated that the resurrection Beasts are the souls of the dead planets that Necrolord Prime killed.

    I don’t THINK he’s lying about that regard, because it tracks. There are nine houses, nine resurrection Beasts, and nine planets in our solar system (which is kinda implied to be where this takes place)

    yeah and I think when Earth's resurrection beast took form it looked like Alecto and John somehow decided he could make nice with it

    I think there's things John lies about and things he absolutely believes to be true but is dreadfully wrong about, and "I can do the fusion dance with the collective soul of my dead homeworld" is one of the latter

    Fair.

    I am not saying the theory that she's a resurrection beast is impossible (although I dunno that I see evidence suggesting it's true), I'm saying that I think the anger at the reveal doesn't make sense for the other Saints to feel UNLESS the fact that she's the first resurrection beast is generally unknown (if true). Do you see what I mean? Like, if they know what she is (and this is the source of their fear/disgust/hostility) AND they know (now) that they were one another's cavalier primary and necromancer, then there's no logical reason for them to think "well geez bet perfect lyctorhood'll work on just anybody and now I'm salty af about my cavaliers dying," rather than "WHAT THE HELL DID YOU DO YOU'RE PART UNDEAD PLANET MONSTER."

    Also hey what was the call on spoilers for this thread? We just spoiling stuff from the back quarter of Harrow?

    Lost Salient on
    RUVCwyu.jpg
    "Sandra has a good solid anti-murderer vibe. My skin felt very secure and sufficiently attached to my body when I met her. Also my organs." HAIL SATAN
  • cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    I appreciate that all it takes is a couple extra exclamation marks to get across how shrill and awful Mercy is.
    I felt like I knew the exact tone of voice she was speaking in with those !!s. I'm always impressed by stuff like that. Like, with lots of examples of using punctuation in nonstandard way to convey something, I can get what they're going for, and feel the vibe they're going for, but it's usually kinda abstract. It's rare to just see !! and be able to hear the tone of voice Mercy is using.

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    cB557 wrote: »
    I appreciate that all it takes is a couple extra exclamation marks to get across how shrill and awful Mercy is.
    I felt like I knew the exact tone of voice she was speaking in with those !!s. I'm always impressed by stuff like that. Like, with lots of examples of using punctuation in nonstandard way to convey something, I can get what they're going for, and feel the vibe they're going for, but it's usually kinda abstract. It's rare to just see !! and be able to hear the tone of voice Mercy is using.

    Harrrow paperback extras:
    Mercy is totally in the short story. Not named or anything but she talks a bit and it is definitely Mercy.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
  • JedocJedoc In the scuppers with the staggers and jagsRegistered User regular
    cB557 wrote: »
    I appreciate that all it takes is a couple extra exclamation marks to get across how shrill and awful Mercy is.
    I felt like I knew the exact tone of voice she was speaking in with those !!s. I'm always impressed by stuff like that. Like, with lots of examples of using punctuation in nonstandard way to convey something, I can get what they're going for, and feel the vibe they're going for, but it's usually kinda abstract. It's rare to just see !! and be able to hear the tone of voice Mercy is using.

    The wretched teens have the best typography.

    GDdCWMm.jpg
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    Jedoc wrote: »
    cB557 wrote: »
    I appreciate that all it takes is a couple extra exclamation marks to get across how shrill and awful Mercy is.
    I felt like I knew the exact tone of voice she was speaking in with those !!s. I'm always impressed by stuff like that. Like, with lots of examples of using punctuation in nonstandard way to convey something, I can get what they're going for, and feel the vibe they're going for, but it's usually kinda abstract. It's rare to just see !! and be able to hear the tone of voice Mercy is using.

    The wretched teens have the best typography.

    That use if the different font and size made them both sound perfectly "mewling".

    I am in the business of saving lives.
  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    @Lost Salient I said to spoiler everything from Harrow and beyond but I might relax that since this is turning into a whole lot of spoiler trees

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    @Grey Ghost could you indicate the spoiler status in the thread title?

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    edited August 2021
    Aistan wrote: »
    Ch48
    "That awe-inspiring painting of the banging cavalier holding a melon, with her necromancer friend standing on a plinth while the wind blew leaves to hide his junk. That was art."

    I agree, Gideon. I've missed you.

    Its amazing how much of a release this was.
    I got over most of the book being in second person fairly quickly but there is just something electric about being in Gideon's head.

    nightmarenny on
    Quire.jpg
  • A Dabble Of TheloniusA Dabble Of Thelonius It has been a doozy of a dayRegistered User regular
    Aistan wrote: »
    Ch48
    "That awe-inspiring painting of the banging cavalier holding a melon, with her necromancer friend standing on a plinth while the wind blew leaves to hide his junk. That was art."

    I agree, Gideon. I've missed you.

    Its amazing how much of a release this was.
    I got over most of the book being in second person fairly quickly but there is just something electric about being in Gideon's head.
    Again, let me say: sorry. It was not my thumb to let them bite off. I admit completely that this was my bad, but these motherfuckers had a hunger that only thumbs could satisfy.

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  • AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    Ch50
    ... HUH

  • knitdanknitdan In ur base Killin ur guysRegistered User regular
    My god, people

    I’ve read the damn thing 3 times and I don’t have an encyclopedic memory of what happens in each chapter so spoilers around one-word reactions are not exactly enlightening.

    At least talk about what you’re reacting to inside the spoiler because I’m not going to drag out the book to guess.

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
  • AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    edited August 2021
    Entire book

    Huh #1:
    Harrow modified her own memory
    Huh #2:
    Gideon is still 'alive' within her brain and is controlling it while Harrow is gone
    Huh #3:
    Gideon is the child of God

    Aistan on
  • AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    Done.

    I'm glad I kept this on my library hold list, because it did what I was hoping it would and fixed/further explained the thing(s) I hated about the ending of Gideon.

    I enjoyed it a lot, it was mostly surprising but easy enough to understand once the reveals happened. I think I enjoy Gideon more though, because the first 9/10 of that book is just phenomenal.


    Now I guess I join the rest of you in waiting for the next two.

  • Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    I picked up Harrow again from where I'd left it about 20% through. No idea what's going on. Considered starting again from the beginning but I seem to remember I had no idea what was going on when I read it the first time anyway so I just carried on.

  • David_TDavid_T A fashion yes-man is no good to me. Copenhagen, DenmarkRegistered User regular
    Harrow wild guess after a couple of chapters in, re: 2nd person narration.
    At some point, there'll be a description of something inane that Harrow does and she'll just be, like, exasperated, "Yes, Nav, I know I just did that" and turns out it's Gideon narrating.

    euj90n71sojo.png
  • AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    From the book thread:
    knitdan wrote: »
    I will be honest I’ve read it 3 times now and I’m still not sure what exactly happens at the end of Harrow.
    Who is the person living in a city with Camilla Hect? i’m leaning toward “Gideon’s body but there’s no spirit inside”
    Did Harrow’s spirit literally traverse the River all the way back home to the Locked Tomb?
    Where did the people who grab Harrow-Gideon come from?

    I’m not worried though, I’m sure it will all be explained in the first ten pages of the next book.
    I was figuring it was Harrow's body with Gideon's spirit inside, but thinking about it now I guess there's no reason Gideon would hide her identity. Unless almost drowning damaged her memory. So, not sure really.

    How I interpreted that is that Harrow is now locked away within Gideon's mind in her body, and the locked tomb is her manifested "safe space." The porno mag she finds I think implies that this is where Gideon was when she was sealed off earlier.

    When Harrow meets Camilla earlier she says they are headed for the BOE, so I assumed that she, Coronabeth, and Judith return then rescued Harrow's body then brought her with them to the BOE planet. The other lady with Harrow's body and Camilla at the end is probably Coronabeth, since Judith tried to spill the beans since she still doesn't like the BOE and is likely locked up.

  • RingoRingo He/Him a distinct lack of substanceRegistered User regular
    Just popping in to say that if you're going open spoilers in here maybe add some info about the series to the OP? Otherwise this thread is useless for people who don't know about or haven't read the books (me) and asking questions means potentially reading the open spoilers at which point why read the books

    And popping back out because open spoilers

    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
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  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    I've added some info to the OP to give the basic setup for the novels and their tone

    I'm really struggling with the spoiler thing though! I don't want to lock out people who are just starting or discovering the books here

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Aistan wrote: »
    From the book thread:
    knitdan wrote: »
    I will be honest I’ve read it 3 times now and I’m still not sure what exactly happens at the end of Harrow.
    Who is the person living in a city with Camilla Hect? i’m leaning toward “Gideon’s body but there’s no spirit inside”
    Did Harrow’s spirit literally traverse the River all the way back home to the Locked Tomb?
    Where did the people who grab Harrow-Gideon come from?

    I’m not worried though, I’m sure it will all be explained in the first ten pages of the next book.
    I was figuring it was Harrow's body with Gideon's spirit inside, but thinking about it now I guess there's no reason Gideon would hide her identity. Unless almost drowning damaged her memory. So, not sure really.

    How I interpreted that is that Harrow is now locked away within Gideon's mind in her body, and the locked tomb is her manifested "safe space." The porno mag she finds I think implies that this is where Gideon was when she was sealed off earlier.

    When Harrow meets Camilla earlier she says they are headed for the BOE, so I assumed that she, Coronabeth, and Judith return then rescued Harrow's body then brought her with them to the BOE planet. The other lady with Harrow's body and Camilla at the end is probably Coronabeth, since Judith tried to spill the beans since she still doesn't like the BOE and is likely locked up.

    ....you should really read those bonus stuffs in the paperback version of Harrow. A lot of it is directly relevant to your thoughts.

    Nod. Get treat. PSN: Quippish
  • webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    I've added some info to the OP to give the basic setup for the novels and their tone

    I'm really struggling with the spoiler thing though! I don't want to lock out people who are just starting or discovering the books here

    I think that's just the nature of the beast with threads like this. Otherwise as mentioned previously you get walls of spoiler tags.

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