I’m not running one for 300 years, but I’d love to run a secret agent convention. I have ideas about splitting people into USA, Russia, Europe and China, and while it mostly plays just like a regular game, it’s incentivised that you keep as much of your faction alive by the end as you can.
By the way, I'll add my 2c about Discord being very convenient for mafia-ing. I think having separate threads for each day (like we did in Hollow Knight) works slightly better than the one big thread, but otherwise It's great to be able to switch threads to check things like orders or the roster.
I did see a couple folks saying they wished they had done more of their own analysis, and yeah! More village analysis is never a bad thing, the more folks we have bouncing ideas off each other and trying to find patterns the more likely you are to find mafia hiding in the votes (especially because it makes inactive folks stick out even more). As we saw this game, it's not great to have 1-2 people trying to guide the vote every night. Even if they make a couple good calls, they'll still be wrong enough that you want more sets of eyes on the choices gutchecking them (except maybe if it's Infidel but village Infidel rarely lives that long).
Yeah in absence of villager / thread info, I should have done more effort to reach out and try to pry it from everyone's hands. Overall I'd rate my performance pretty poorly, there were only very few votes that went well and mafia made sure to be in em to get goodguypoints - which made the late stage very difficult for village without seers.
+1
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
I think people get afraid to be publicly wrong but it's okay to be publicly wrong, I was wrong all the time publicly while working through my thoughts.
+2
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I think people get afraid to be publicly wrong but it's okay to be publicly wrong, I was wrong all the time publicly while working through my thoughts.
The important thing to always remember with Phalla games: Uninformed Majority vs Informed Minority. The more information the majority has to work with, the better they can make their decisions.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
+1
AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
By the way, I'll add my 2c about Discord being very convenient for mafia-ing. I think having separate threads for each day (like we did in Hollow Knight) works slightly better than the one big thread, but otherwise It's great to be able to switch threads to check things like orders or the roster.
Pretty happy with "killed two Mafia and soaking the Mafia thread in what my HP actually is".
Was also Guts and was trying to provoke metal to attack me, and it looks like JayKaos did day 1.
Anyway, end game looked difficult, too many suspects.
But glad Gizzy, ZH, mamawolf, Inf and kime all turned up green.
Only one that was a bit surprising was Sir Fab after his JK votes day 3 and 4, but he was first on IIRC, so
Very happy with taking AoE.
Everyone should be able to ping their entire suspect list every night all the time.
Aside the night where mamawolf tells me not to ping Cythraul and I go along because it's not nice to discuss and then just do whatever you wanted in the first place.
I think people get afraid to be publicly wrong but it's okay to be publicly wrong, I was wrong all the time publicly while working through my thoughts.
Yeah it turns out I was super wrong. Mafia shoulda fought to keep me alive, I'd probably have protected 2/3 of them the rest of the game
Anyone want game stats? I haven't been following the game super tightly, but I did get to see the spreadsheet with all of the player builds, and I put together a few graphs from the daily data. Spoilered for size.
First off, we have a table of initial robot builds. Villager selections are in white circles, while mafia selections are in black diamonds. In a fairly major deviation compared to most battle-type games, a majority (albeit a slight one) chose defensive abilities over offensive ones.
In retrospect, it's not a surprise that the Ultimate Shield (Nullfication) was so popular and the Reduction Shield was never selected. The Ultimate Shield was basically a full guard as a regular ability. Furthermore, the fact that fractional damage rounded upwards was to the Reduction Shield's detriment, and perhaps there should have been an additional multi-hit attack in the mix to bring the balance back into its favor. (That was the original plan for the Quick Attack, before it got changed to its priority-skipping version deployed in the game.) I'm a little bit surprised that the Spiked Shield (Revenge) ended up being so popular, since I thought that the stacking rules would deter overreliance on it. I guess people just like being a bit tricksy?
Next, let's look at the elemental distribution over time, as a percent-stacked bar chart. Interestingly, despite the fact that a large number of attack abilities were Guts elemental, that didn't result in Metal-element robots getting weeded out quickly. In fact, the elemental proportions were as relatively stable as one could hope for in a game with a small number of players, just with a slight expansion towards Wood in the mid-game and heavy lean towards Water at the end of the game. But that lean is likely more due to coincidence than deliberate action, due to not just the starting distribution of attacks, but their evolution over the course of the game (seen below).
Finally, we have the ability distribution over time, also as a percent-stacked bar chart. While the ratio of offense-oriented abilities were about even at the start of the game, most robots with attack abilities were eliminated by the midgame. The fact that most of the Ultimate Shielding was in the hands of the mafia in the latter parts of the game, and the fact that the mafia ability had no player target to reflect Spiked damage back onto, meant that the village was left without much force projection. On the other side, the mafia was in fairly the same position, resulting in the dynamic of the late game becoming a lot closer to a standard, non-battle game than one might expect!
I think people get afraid to be publicly wrong but it's okay to be publicly wrong, I was wrong all the time publicly while working through my thoughts.
+3
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Well I also led votes that killed two mafia!
+2
AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
I think people get afraid to be publicly wrong but it's okay to be publicly wrong, I was wrong all the time publicly while working through my thoughts.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
My goal with the spiked shield was to lure the mafia into attacking me and have them take damage.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
+2
Sir FabulousMalevolent Squid GodRegistered Userregular
My goal with the spiked shield was to lure the mafia into attacking me and have them take damage.
You did the majority of the damage that the mafia took this game so mission accomplished I guess.
Switch Friend Code: SW-1406-1275-7906
+7
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Over half the players couldn't deal damage directly and we knocked out two Mafia damage dealers first.
I mean, I suppose you were sus early game because Green got voted out, but I believe we saved you with the vote on JK, which made you look less suspect?
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
In retrospect, the quick attacks were probably the strongest ability to take in the game. They bypassed everything.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
In retrospect, the quick attacks were probably the strongest ability to take in the game. They bypassed everything.
Well yeah, but then the Mafia would actually have to hit me a second time with the super effective quick attack instead of getting very confused and letting me live another night.
With six Mafia, I guess I might have gone 3 quick and 3 AoE in 3 types, counter-picking for types that I thought would be popular (wood, guts, probably metal), and then just spam AoE until someone screams in thread.
Only problem with this is typed damage
Pretty obvious if quick and AoE are hitting village aligned targets that someone claiming shields is Mafia and those with other claimed attacks of a different type are not.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
The most surprising thing to me was how popular Guts was and how unpopular fire was.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
+3
Sir FabulousMalevolent Squid GodRegistered Userregular
I think in general, the element types were a neat idea that didn't really change much about how the game played out.
Especially because you didn't know how much damage you actually dealt to your target. At first it seems like you can use attacks to figure out type effectiveness, but in reality nobody is going to admit in the thread that they got hit by a super-effective attack since that's almost asking for it to happen again.
I think in general, the element types were a neat idea that didn't really change much about how the game played out.
Especially because you didn't know how much damage you actually dealt to your target. At first it seems like you can use attacks to figure out type effectiveness, but in reality nobody is going to admit in the thread that they got hit by a super-effective attack since that's almost asking for it to happen again.
<_<
That's not what happened at all.
Instead you get blasted to -35
i took two full-power super effective charge shots and died, it was... sure something.
i had fun reading along in the thread! totally called Endless_Serpents from beyond the grave, i feel like i fulfilled my villager obligation.
by the end i was sure JPants was mafia, Sir Fab was sus, Auralynx i never got a good read on.
I think type deduction was still very much doable, but it depends on the target not reporting when they've been hit by an attack they're strong against.
Letting other villagers know what charge/normal/quick/AoE types have hit you is pretty important after all.
Whether that's grokable before the end of a single game, when it's not known that attacks that are ineffective don't do any damage, I'm not sure.
I think type deduction was still very much doable, but it depends on the target not reporting when they've been hit by an attack they're strong against.
Letting other villagers know what charge/normal/quick/AoE types have hit you is pretty important after all.
Whether that's grokable before the end of a single game, when it's not known that attacks that are ineffective don't do any damage, I'm not sure.
If you have done as Gizzy did you'll see we'd worked out an ok type-deduction scheme and ditched it in favor of blast-bots.
Also, I think some kind of feedback in the form of "your shield reduced / reflected X attacks" would have helped soft-confirm people.
Also I kind of wish I had played the X series as a kid because I didn't really want to name myself "Object" Man but everyone who had "Adjective" "Animal" names were dope.
Also I kind of wish I had played the X series as a kid because I didn't really want to name myself "Object" Man but everyone who had "Adjective" "Animal" names were dope.
A little retooling and you could easily change the setting to the X series. Hell, set it around X4 and you could have a faction game (Maverick Hunters, Repliforce, Mavericks).
Posts
I almost used this logic to vote for you about halfway thru but that same day you established yourself as village pretty clearly!
I will have to go back and think on it but pretty sure the big surprise was JPants.
Gonna have some good grudges for the future.
If it's any consolation, as you can read on the mafia discord, karma did get me for that one.
Switch Friend Code: SW-1406-1275-7906
The important thing to always remember with Phalla games: Uninformed Majority vs Informed Minority. The more information the majority has to work with, the better they can make their decisions.
Could've told me!
Was also Guts and was trying to provoke metal to attack me, and it looks like JayKaos did day 1.
Anyway, end game looked difficult, too many suspects.
But glad Gizzy, ZH, mamawolf, Inf and kime all turned up green.
Only one that was a bit surprising was Sir Fab after his JK votes day 3 and 4, but he was first on IIRC, so
Very happy with taking AoE.
Everyone should be able to ping their entire suspect list every night all the time.
Aside the night where mamawolf tells me not to ping Cythraul and I go along because it's not nice to discuss and then just do whatever you wanted in the first place.
Thanks for hosting @38thDoe
Yeah it turns out I was super wrong. Mafia shoulda fought to keep me alive, I'd probably have protected 2/3 of them the rest of the game
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
Island Name: Felinefine
First off, we have a table of initial robot builds. Villager selections are in white circles, while mafia selections are in black diamonds. In a fairly major deviation compared to most battle-type games, a majority (albeit a slight one) chose defensive abilities over offensive ones.
In retrospect, it's not a surprise that the Ultimate Shield (Nullfication) was so popular and the Reduction Shield was never selected. The Ultimate Shield was basically a full guard as a regular ability. Furthermore, the fact that fractional damage rounded upwards was to the Reduction Shield's detriment, and perhaps there should have been an additional multi-hit attack in the mix to bring the balance back into its favor. (That was the original plan for the Quick Attack, before it got changed to its priority-skipping version deployed in the game.) I'm a little bit surprised that the Spiked Shield (Revenge) ended up being so popular, since I thought that the stacking rules would deter overreliance on it. I guess people just like being a bit tricksy?
Next, let's look at the elemental distribution over time, as a percent-stacked bar chart. Interestingly, despite the fact that a large number of attack abilities were Guts elemental, that didn't result in Metal-element robots getting weeded out quickly. In fact, the elemental proportions were as relatively stable as one could hope for in a game with a small number of players, just with a slight expansion towards Wood in the mid-game and heavy lean towards Water at the end of the game. But that lean is likely more due to coincidence than deliberate action, due to not just the starting distribution of attacks, but their evolution over the course of the game (seen below).
Finally, we have the ability distribution over time, also as a percent-stacked bar chart. While the ratio of offense-oriented abilities were about even at the start of the game, most robots with attack abilities were eliminated by the midgame. The fact that most of the Ultimate Shielding was in the hands of the mafia in the latter parts of the game, and the fact that the mafia ability had no player target to reflect Spiked damage back onto, meant that the village was left without much force projection. On the other side, the mafia was in fairly the same position, resulting in the dynamic of the late game becoming a lot closer to a standard, non-battle game than one might expect!
Legit impressed you scrolled up that far. That's a treat for the dedicated.
Haha I was ultimately 5 minutes from my place and I took my outer layers off before I went inside so it didn't end up too bad.
And I will continue to feel bad about deceiving you in the VtM Phalla and you can't stop me!
Switch Friend Code: SW-1406-1275-7906
Be less suspicious!
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
You did the majority of the damage that the mafia took this game so mission accomplished I guess.
Switch Friend Code: SW-1406-1275-7906
Wait, did ya’ll also attack Gizzy on the night I shielded him?
Ha ha ha Empathy Man!
No no you only reflected one attack back onto us. It's just that everyone else took a total of 6 damage over the course of the game.
Switch Friend Code: SW-1406-1275-7906
Over half the players couldn't deal damage directly and we knocked out two Mafia damage dealers first.
I mean, I suppose you were sus early game because Green got voted out, but I believe we saved you with the vote on JK, which made you look less suspect?
Thought there was a push on you that was away from a Mafia but I can't easily see it.
But with 3 damage out of 28, you'd need to do quite some quick attacks to kill someone. Self-shielding is the best
Well yeah, but then the Mafia would actually have to hit me a second time with the super effective quick attack instead of getting very confused and letting me live another night.
Only problem with this is typed damage
Pretty obvious if quick and AoE are hitting village aligned targets that someone claiming shields is Mafia and those with other claimed attacks of a different type are not.
Especially because you didn't know how much damage you actually dealt to your target. At first it seems like you can use attacks to figure out type effectiveness, but in reality nobody is going to admit in the thread that they got hit by a super-effective attack since that's almost asking for it to happen again.
Switch Friend Code: SW-1406-1275-7906
<_<
That's not what happened at all.
Instead you get blasted to -35
i had fun reading along in the thread! totally called Endless_Serpents from beyond the grave, i feel like i fulfilled my villager obligation.
by the end i was sure JPants was mafia, Sir Fab was sus, Auralynx i never got a good read on.
Letting other villagers know what charge/normal/quick/AoE types have hit you is pretty important after all.
Whether that's grokable before the end of a single game, when it's not known that attacks that are ineffective don't do any damage, I'm not sure.
If you have done as Gizzy did you'll see we'd worked out an ok type-deduction scheme and ditched it in favor of blast-bots.
Also, I think some kind of feedback in the form of "your shield reduced / reflected X attacks" would have helped soft-confirm people.
But then switched to guts because others were saying how metal was cool. (I think. My memory is not good.)
Then it was basically a crapshoot anyway. *shrug*
Edit: This is basically my entire playstyle summed up as a meme:
A little retooling and you could easily change the setting to the X series. Hell, set it around X4 and you could have a faction game (Maverick Hunters, Repliforce, Mavericks).
I can has cheezburger, yes?