TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
If it was up to me I would not change a thing. Like my first post this is the Streissand effect. A majority of people don't know who he's named after and the character has been his own thing five years ago and even moreso today. Let McCree be.
But if this guy truly did some messed up stuff and is that much of a stigma to Blizzard, get rid of the character completely because he can't be salvaged. It's an either/or situation, not trying to have your cake and eat it too when you're the people who fostered this situation.
I'm sorry, this is stupid. No one would know who he's named after if they didn't bring it up like this. A real Streissand effect.
McCree is a great cowboy name. Flat out. You can remove or change the celebrity in the limo calling him Jesse McCree and that's it, the rest is 90% McCree and 10% Jesse. I could even buy his first name changing to Dabmaster or something. I don't even know 76's full name off my head, I think his first name is Jack. And I know he has a last name, I just can't remember it right now, like Reaper's last name is Reyes. For playing the game for five years I actually don't know a lot of their real names....Torbjorn Pewdiepie, right? Reinhardt Yeager? Lucio copa Lucioball?
Maybe next time focus on not employing the harasser or use McCree to talk shit about the previous guy, like "this is someone who should be called Jesse McCree, not this guy who perved on women in the workplace."
They already fired the guy, that's how it got out that he was one of the perpetrators. Yes they could have just changed his first name and deleted a few voice lines and called it a day. But the name McCree was still chosen to honor a misogynist, and that stain on the game's legacy would never go away. This is a symbolic gesture that's intended to prove that the Overwatch team regrets the part they played in treating this guy like a rockstar which enabled his crimes. Blizzard needs every PR win they can get right now, not just the bare minimum.
What were Jesse McCree's crimes? A Kotaku article covering the story points out he was in a hotel room next to a giant photo of Bill Cosby. Did McCree sexually assault women there in 2013?
I'm sorry, this is stupid. No one would know who he's named after if they didn't bring it up like this. A real Streissand effect.
McCree is a great cowboy name. Flat out. You can remove or change the celebrity in the limo calling him Jesse McCree and that's it, the rest is 90% McCree and 10% Jesse. I could even buy his first name changing to Dabmaster or something. I don't even know 76's full name off my head, I think his first name is Jack. And I know he has a last name, I just can't remember it right now, like Reaper's last name is Reyes. For playing the game for five years I actually don't know a lot of their real names....Torbjorn Pewdiepie, right? Reinhardt Yeager? Lucio copa Lucioball?
Maybe next time focus on not employing the harasser or use McCree to talk shit about the previous guy, like "this is someone who should be called Jesse McCree, not this guy who perved on women in the workplace."
They already fired the guy, that's how it got out that he was one of the perpetrators. Yes they could have just changed his first name and deleted a few voice lines and called it a day. But the name McCree was still chosen to honor a misogynist, and that stain on the game's legacy would never go away. This is a symbolic gesture that's intended to prove that the Overwatch team regrets the part they played in treating this guy like a rockstar which enabled his crimes. Blizzard needs every PR win they can get right now, not just the bare minimum.
What were Jesse McCree's crimes? A Kotaku article covering the story points out he was in a hotel room next to a giant photo of Bill Cosby. Did McCree sexually assault women there in 2013?
I don't think we know what he did specifically, just that he was let go in the recent wave of firings and obviously this decision confirms that internally they know it's bad.
If it was up to me I would not change a thing. Like my first post this is the Streissand effect. A majority of people don't know who he's named after and the character has been his own thing five years ago and even moreso today. Let McCree be.
But if this guy truly did some messed up stuff and is that much of a stigma to Blizzard, get rid of the character completely because he can't be salvaged. It's an either/or situation, not trying to have your cake and eat it too when you're the people who fostered this situation.
If it was up to me I would not change a thing. Like my first post this is the Streissand effect. A majority of people don't know who he's named after and the character has been his own thing five years ago and even moreso today. Let McCree be.
But if this guy truly did some messed up stuff and is that much of a stigma to Blizzard, get rid of the character completely because he can't be salvaged. It's an either/or situation, not trying to have your cake and eat it too when you're the people who fostered this situation.
it's not actually an either/or situation
nobody agrees with you my dude, so maybe you should reflect on how you're approaching this situation
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
No one here agrees with me, that's fine. I didn't realize the end game here is a popularity contest about opinions. Doesn't change how I feel about it Blizzard is still not the good guys.
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KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
If it was up to me I would not change a thing. Like my first post this is the Streissand effect. A majority of people don't know who he's named after and the character has been his own thing five years ago and even moreso today. Let McCree be.
But if this guy truly did some messed up stuff and is that much of a stigma to Blizzard, get rid of the character completely because he can't be salvaged. It's an either/or situation, not trying to have your cake and eat it too when you're the people who fostered this situation.
Calling it the streisand effect is pretty dumb, the point isn't for people to not find out that Jesse McCree the person sucks but rather to remove a thing honoring a person who sucks
If you think the only moral way to remove the stain of having honored a person who was later fired in connection with an enormous sexual harassment lawsuit is to delete the character the character then thats cool, I think that may be a little much (unless the character modeled off the person in ways besides the name) but your heart is in the right place
Right now it just seems like you're upset they're gonna change the cowboys name and you dont want them to but its unclear why
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited August 2021
Yeah. Like the cynical side of me can't help but feel like this is partially a PR grab.
BUT I can also see how having one of your characters named after a possible abuser could really hurt company morale.
And getting overly attached to a name is pretty silly.
If it was up to me I would not change a thing. Like my first post this is the Streissand effect. A majority of people don't know who he's named after and the character has been his own thing five years ago and even moreso today. Let McCree be.
But if this guy truly did some messed up stuff and is that much of a stigma to Blizzard, get rid of the character completely because he can't be salvaged. It's an either/or situation, not trying to have your cake and eat it too when you're the people who fostered this situation.
Calling it the streisand effect is pretty dumb, the point isn't for people to not find out that Jesse McCree the person sucks but rather to remove a thing honoring a person who sucks
If you think the only moral way to remove the stain of having honored a person who was later fired in connection with an enormous sexual harassment lawsuit is to delete the character the character then thats cool, I think that may be a little much (unless the character modeled off the person in ways besides the name) but your heart is in the right place
Right now it just seems like you're upset they're gonna change the cowboys name and you dont want them to but its unclear why
It is not even really an accurate use of the term "Streisand Effect". Overwatch wants this to be more known because they want credit for the action of trying to fix things. The Streisand effect refers to where you are trying to suppress knowledge of an event entirely but in the process you publicize the knowledge you wanted to go away. Like David Nunes suing a twitter cow account. He doesn't want credit for suing the twitter account, he wants it to go away so people stop making fun of him.
The most ridiculous part is claiming that they were going to have some kind of story event.
Sure, they haven't done shit for years, but oooh, too bad. We were JUUUUUST about to do a big thing next month and now can't. Shucks golly darn. Sorry, guys. We're thinking of you.
The most ridiculous part is claiming that they were going to have some kind of story event.
Sure, they haven't done shit for years, but oooh, too bad. We were JUUUUUST about to do a big thing next month and now can't. Shucks golly darn. Sorry, guys. We're thinking of you.
Why would they make that up? If they weren't going to do it before, they certainly have to now.
I'm sorry, this is stupid. No one would know who he's named after if they didn't bring it up like this. A real Streissand effect.
McCree is a great cowboy name. Flat out. You can remove or change the celebrity in the limo calling him Jesse McCree and that's it, the rest is 90% McCree and 10% Jesse. I could even buy his first name changing to Dabmaster or something. I don't even know 76's full name off my head, I think his first name is Jack. And I know he has a last name, I just can't remember it right now, like Reaper's last name is Reyes. For playing the game for five years I actually don't know a lot of their real names....Torbjorn Pewdiepie, right? Reinhardt Yeager? Lucio copa Lucioball?
Maybe next time focus on not employing the harasser or use McCree to talk shit about the previous guy, like "this is someone who should be called Jesse McCree, not this guy who perved on women in the workplace."
They already fired the guy, that's how it got out that he was one of the perpetrators. Yes they could have just changed his first name and deleted a few voice lines and called it a day. But the name McCree was still chosen to honor a misogynist, and that stain on the game's legacy would never go away. This is a symbolic gesture that's intended to prove that the Overwatch team regrets the part they played in treating this guy like a rockstar which enabled his crimes. Blizzard needs every PR win they can get right now, not just the bare minimum.
What were Jesse McCree's crimes? A Kotaku article covering the story points out he was in a hotel room next to a giant photo of Bill Cosby. Did McCree sexually assault women there in 2013?
Are you intentionally downplaying or did you not read the article.
Another image from the same Facebook album shows a screenshot of a 2013 group chat called the “BlizzCon Cosby Crew.” In it, former Blizzard designer David Kosak writes, “I am gathering the hot chixx for the Coz.”
“Bring em,” replies Afrasiabi. “You can’t marry ALL of them Alex,” Kosak writes. “I can, I’m middle eastern,” responds Afrasiabi. Jesse McCree, currently a lead game designer at Blizzard, then writes, “You misspelled fuck.”
It got named the Cosby Suite, and the picture brought because
Afrasiabi was so known to engage in harassment of females that his suite was nicknamed the ‘Crosby Suite’ [sic] after alleged rapist Bill Crosby [sic].”
And rather than be angry or embassed or ashamed by this they leaned into it
I'm sorry, this is stupid. No one would know who he's named after if they didn't bring it up like this. A real Streissand effect.
McCree is a great cowboy name. Flat out. You can remove or change the celebrity in the limo calling him Jesse McCree and that's it, the rest is 90% McCree and 10% Jesse. I could even buy his first name changing to Dabmaster or something. I don't even know 76's full name off my head, I think his first name is Jack. And I know he has a last name, I just can't remember it right now, like Reaper's last name is Reyes. For playing the game for five years I actually don't know a lot of their real names....Torbjorn Pewdiepie, right? Reinhardt Yeager? Lucio copa Lucioball?
Maybe next time focus on not employing the harasser or use McCree to talk shit about the previous guy, like "this is someone who should be called Jesse McCree, not this guy who perved on women in the workplace."
They already fired the guy, that's how it got out that he was one of the perpetrators. Yes they could have just changed his first name and deleted a few voice lines and called it a day. But the name McCree was still chosen to honor a misogynist, and that stain on the game's legacy would never go away. This is a symbolic gesture that's intended to prove that the Overwatch team regrets the part they played in treating this guy like a rockstar which enabled his crimes. Blizzard needs every PR win they can get right now, not just the bare minimum.
What were Jesse McCree's crimes? A Kotaku article covering the story points out he was in a hotel room next to a giant photo of Bill Cosby. Did McCree sexually assault women there in 2013?
Are you intentionally downplaying or did you not read the article.
Another image from the same Facebook album shows a screenshot of a 2013 group chat called the “BlizzCon Cosby Crew.” In it, former Blizzard designer David Kosak writes, “I am gathering the hot chixx for the Coz.”
“Bring em,” replies Afrasiabi. “You can’t marry ALL of them Alex,” Kosak writes. “I can, I’m middle eastern,” responds Afrasiabi. Jesse McCree, currently a lead game designer at Blizzard, then writes, “You misspelled fuck.”
It got named the Cosby Suite, and the picture brought because
Afrasiabi was so known to engage in harassment of females that his suite was nicknamed the ‘Crosby Suite’ [sic] after alleged rapist Bill Crosby [sic].”
And rather than be angry or embassed or ashamed by this they leaned into it
This Afrasiabi grabbed women and was fired in 2020. Did Jesse McCree grab or coerce women in the Cosby Suite or did he passively stand by and let it happen? Was he a Donald Trump or was he a Billy Bush?
The most ridiculous part is claiming that they were going to have some kind of story event.
Sure, they haven't done shit for years, but oooh, too bad. We were JUUUUUST about to do a big thing next month and now can't. Shucks golly darn. Sorry, guys. We're thinking of you.
Why would they make that up? If they weren't going to do it before, they certainly have to now.
Why would a corporation lie, painting themselves as the good guy in every way? Hard at work, but no, you can't see it or any evidence of it, just take their word. Corporations are not your friend. Particularly not corporations filled with corruption and duplicity.
It might be believable if this was something that they had already announced, was in progress, or something that they did regularly, but it's none of those things. They could have said anything there, a new character, a major update, Overwatch 2, but keeping it vague covers literally anything they may feel like, or more likely, absolutely nothing at all when a couple months pass and it fades from memory, same as all the other shit Blizzard has gotten themselves in hot water over for the past couple years. Shit, it was only two years ago when Blizzcon started out with a whole big thing about how they trying their hardest to improve and be a better and more socially responsible company after the Blitzchung stuff, yet were still burying all the sexism and harassment, so couldn't have been trying that hard.
The most ridiculous part is claiming that they were going to have some kind of story event.
Sure, they haven't done shit for years, but oooh, too bad. We were JUUUUUST about to do a big thing next month and now can't. Shucks golly darn. Sorry, guys. We're thinking of you.
Why would they make that up? If they weren't going to do it before, they certainly have to now.
Why would a corporation lie, painting themselves as the good guy in every way? Hard at work, but no, you can't see it or any evidence of it, just take their word. Corporations are not your friend. Particularly not corporations filled with corruption and duplicity.
It might be believable if this was something that they had already announced, was in progress, or something that they did regularly, but it's none of those things. They could have said anything there, a new character, a major update, Overwatch 2, but keeping it vague covers literally anything they may feel like, or more likely, absolutely nothing at all when a couple months pass and it fades from memory, same as all the other shit Blizzard has gotten themselves in hot water over for the past couple years. Shit, it was only two years ago when Blizzcon started out with a whole big thing about how they trying their hardest to improve and be a better and more socially responsible company after the Blitzchung stuff, yet were still burying all the sexism and harassment, so couldn't have been trying that hard.
They almost never pre-announce upcoming content until the teaser in the last few days, and they didn't have to do it this time either. "Keeping it vague" is a lot more clarity than usual. I don't see what part of their statement is hard to believe, why is a conspiracy theory necessary? I'm finding it much more difficult to understand the rationale behind fabricating a story update when no one was expecting one, putting themselves on the hook to actually make one now. They could have just said they were changing his name and given a rough timeline of when that would happen.
The most ridiculous part is claiming that they were going to have some kind of story event.
Sure, they haven't done shit for years, but oooh, too bad. We were JUUUUUST about to do a big thing next month and now can't. Shucks golly darn. Sorry, guys. We're thinking of you.
Why would they make that up? If they weren't going to do it before, they certainly have to now.
Why would a corporation lie, painting themselves as the good guy in every way? Hard at work, but no, you can't see it or any evidence of it, just take their word. Corporations are not your friend. Particularly not corporations filled with corruption and duplicity.
It might be believable if this was something that they had already announced, was in progress, or something that they did regularly, but it's none of those things. They could have said anything there, a new character, a major update, Overwatch 2, but keeping it vague covers literally anything they may feel like, or more likely, absolutely nothing at all when a couple months pass and it fades from memory, same as all the other shit Blizzard has gotten themselves in hot water over for the past couple years. Shit, it was only two years ago when Blizzcon started out with a whole big thing about how they trying their hardest to improve and be a better and more socially responsible company after the Blitzchung stuff, yet were still burying all the sexism and harassment, so couldn't have been trying that hard.
They almost never pre-announce upcoming content until the teaser in the last few days, and they didn't have to do it this time either. "Keeping it vague" is a lot more clarity than usual. I don't see what part of their statement is hard to believe, why is a conspiracy theory necessary? I'm finding it much more difficult to understand the rationale behind fabricating a story update when no one was expecting one, putting themselves on the hook to actually make one now. They could have just said they were changing his name and given a rough timeline of when that would happen.
The belief that corporations are inherently trustworthy, forthright, and can always be taken at their word in the best possible reading is a hell of a lot more of a conspiracy theory than plain old skepticism in the face of a self-serving press release by an embattled company that makes only vague future promises about unspecified content on an ethereal, unknowable timeline.
The most ridiculous part is claiming that they were going to have some kind of story event.
Sure, they haven't done shit for years, but oooh, too bad. We were JUUUUUST about to do a big thing next month and now can't. Shucks golly darn. Sorry, guys. We're thinking of you.
Why would they make that up? If they weren't going to do it before, they certainly have to now.
Why would a corporation lie, painting themselves as the good guy in every way? Hard at work, but no, you can't see it or any evidence of it, just take their word. Corporations are not your friend. Particularly not corporations filled with corruption and duplicity.
It might be believable if this was something that they had already announced, was in progress, or something that they did regularly, but it's none of those things. They could have said anything there, a new character, a major update, Overwatch 2, but keeping it vague covers literally anything they may feel like, or more likely, absolutely nothing at all when a couple months pass and it fades from memory, same as all the other shit Blizzard has gotten themselves in hot water over for the past couple years. Shit, it was only two years ago when Blizzcon started out with a whole big thing about how they trying their hardest to improve and be a better and more socially responsible company after the Blitzchung stuff, yet were still burying all the sexism and harassment, so couldn't have been trying that hard.
They almost never pre-announce upcoming content until the teaser in the last few days, and they didn't have to do it this time either. "Keeping it vague" is a lot more clarity than usual. I don't see what part of their statement is hard to believe, why is a conspiracy theory necessary? I'm finding it much more difficult to understand the rationale behind fabricating a story update when no one was expecting one, putting themselves on the hook to actually make one now. They could have just said they were changing his name and given a rough timeline of when that would happen.
The belief that corporations are inherently trustworthy, forthright, and can always be taken at their word in the best possible reading is a hell of a lot more of a conspiracy theory than plain old skepticism in the face of a self-serving press release by an embattled company that makes only vague future promises about unspecified content on an ethereal, unknowable timeline.
You're making strawmen. If you think about it rationally, the theory that they're telling the truth on this one simply makes more sense than the theory that it's all an elaborate ruse.
It's not elaborate. It's just them saying one thing that no one is capable of verifying.
Of course it can't be verified, how would any of us ever be able to verify anything that they announce? That doesn't automatically make it suspicious.
The cynical take is that Blizzard gave up on OW1 years ago and would never put out a free story update before OW2. So when they had to rename McCree, they also invented this imaginary delayed update to trick people into thinking they're still working on the game so they get some arguably good PR (if you think a delay is good PR). The problem with this theory is that by doing that, now they actually do have to make this story update, which the whole theory hinges on them not wanting to do in the first place.
No one expected a story update. There would have been no negative PR about it had they not mentioned it. The theory simply doesn't make sense.
It's not elaborate. It's just them saying one thing that no one is capable of verifying.
Of course it can't be verified, how would any of us ever be able to verify anything that they announce? That doesn't automatically make it suspicious.
The cynical take is that Blizzard gave up on OW1 years ago and would never put out a free story update before OW2. So when they had to rename McCree, they also invented this imaginary delayed update to trick people into thinking they're still working on the game so they get some arguably good PR (if you think a delay is good PR). The problem with this theory is that by doing that, now they actually do have to make this story update, which the whole theory hinges on them not wanting to do in the first place.
No one expected a story update. There would have been no negative PR about it had they not mentioned it. The theory simply doesn't make sense.
You're making a lot of extremely dubious assumptions. That the current situation is neutral/good PR for Blizzard. That it will be a major update. That it will be a substantive one. That it really was planned just a week or two out.
If in December, they put out a 10 page short story and a skin, that's "new story and game content," and in fact how they've described things like the Ana Bastet challenge in the past. Maybe they do now put one together for three months from now that they hadn't planned on before, or maybe four months go by and "Oh, we decided to focus on OW2 instead to make it the best game possible for you," like the same excuse they've used for years now. The important part is singing their own praises, and kicking the can far down the road without making any actual promises they'd need to deliver on, but especially singing their own praises.
ArcTangent on
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BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
In retrospect as soon as McCree's name showed up in the lawsuits this was going to happen inevitably. A developer like the Overwatch team doesn't position itself under the diversity and inclusion image and then keep quiet about keeping an alleged abuser's name as part of their main story cast. It's not legally distinct enough to just let it sit like that without making their leadership look like a bunch of hypocrites (even though we now know for certain that up until recently a lot of them definitely were).
If Blizzard are planning to remove even the milder references in World of Warcraft items, there was next to no chance they wouldn't address this.
All this said, I'm sure there are certainly people on the Overwatch team who genuinely feel what their statement is expressing with their whole heart, but the rot starts at the top and they are really just being used as a PR bludgeon at this point. To me it's entirely meaningless until the actual internal toxicity is excised. That's a public twitter post I might actually give a shit about, but that will probably never happen.
It's not elaborate. It's just them saying one thing that no one is capable of verifying.
Of course it can't be verified, how would any of us ever be able to verify anything that they announce? That doesn't automatically make it suspicious.
The cynical take is that Blizzard gave up on OW1 years ago and would never put out a free story update before OW2. So when they had to rename McCree, they also invented this imaginary delayed update to trick people into thinking they're still working on the game so they get some arguably good PR (if you think a delay is good PR). The problem with this theory is that by doing that, now they actually do have to make this story update, which the whole theory hinges on them not wanting to do in the first place.
No one expected a story update. There would have been no negative PR about it had they not mentioned it. The theory simply doesn't make sense.
You're making a lot of extremely dubious assumptions. That the current situation is neutral/good PR for Blizzard. That it will be a major update. That it will be a substantive one. That it really was planned just a week or two out.
If in December, they put out a 10 page short story and a skin, that's "new story and game content," and in fact how they've described things like the Ana Bastet challenge in the past. Maybe they do now put one together for three months from now that they hadn't planned on before, or maybe four months go by and "Oh, we decided to focus on OW2 instead to make it the best game possible for you," like the same excuse they've used for years now. The important part is singing their own praises, and kicking the can far down the road without making any actual promises they'd need to deliver on, but especially singing their own praises.
Can you at least acknowledge it's good that they're removing a sexual predator's namesake from the game? Can you find one good thing in this game that you post about so often instead of looking for the worst possible interpretation (which you've made up with zero evidence)?
I mean Jesus Christ some of you are just literally impossible to please.
Isn't Afrasiabi a name of a person in WoW also? Did they change those names? Seems like if the company wants to change a name, trying to discern reasons to it is the least important thing. Is it a net positive? I think so, and it's their name to change.
Isn't Afrasiabi a name of a person in WoW also? Did they change those names? Seems like if the company wants to change a name, trying to discern reasons to it is the least important thing. Is it a net positive? I think so, and it's their name to change.
There were a lot of things named after him in WoW, and those were the first changes they announced.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Random side note.
I do think it's funny how the OW have pretty much given up on making Bastion and Mei work in their current states and have basically guttered them until OW2.
My understanding of the situation had always been that Blizzard didn't really choose to name the character "Jesse McCree" to "honor" that particular developer -- they simply couldn't think of a name that sounded better for a cowboy, so they went with it. I'm fairly certain it was like, "if anybody can come up with a better cowboy name than 'Jesse McCree', we'll go with it, but I'm not hearing anything else that's even close at this point".
I guess I'm in favor of not changing the name, personally; this is a character with a background all his own at this point, who is deeply ingrained in the lore of the Overwatch universe. He's more than an NPC who just stands around in Stormwind, basically. And most players probably aren't even aware that McCree was named after a developer at Blizzard. So if it were up to me, I'd say fuck it and leave the character as it is.
But I'm also in literal full-on "fuck Blizzard" mode, so I really don't give a shit what they do.
It's not elaborate. It's just them saying one thing that no one is capable of verifying.
Of course it can't be verified, how would any of us ever be able to verify anything that they announce? That doesn't automatically make it suspicious.
The cynical take is that Blizzard gave up on OW1 years ago and would never put out a free story update before OW2. So when they had to rename McCree, they also invented this imaginary delayed update to trick people into thinking they're still working on the game so they get some arguably good PR (if you think a delay is good PR). The problem with this theory is that by doing that, now they actually do have to make this story update, which the whole theory hinges on them not wanting to do in the first place.
No one expected a story update. There would have been no negative PR about it had they not mentioned it. The theory simply doesn't make sense.
You're making a lot of extremely dubious assumptions. That the current situation is neutral/good PR for Blizzard. That it will be a major update. That it will be a substantive one. That it really was planned just a week or two out.
If in December, they put out a 10 page short story and a skin, that's "new story and game content," and in fact how they've described things like the Ana Bastet challenge in the past. Maybe they do now put one together for three months from now that they hadn't planned on before, or maybe four months go by and "Oh, we decided to focus on OW2 instead to make it the best game possible for you," like the same excuse they've used for years now. The important part is singing their own praises, and kicking the can far down the road without making any actual promises they'd need to deliver on, but especially singing their own praises.
Can you at least acknowledge it's good that they're removing a sexual predator's namesake from the game? Can you find one good thing in this game that you post about so often instead of looking for the worst possible interpretation (which you've made up with zero evidence)?
I mean Jesus Christ some of you are just literally impossible to please.
No. Absolutely and categorically no. Nobody is under any obligation to be laudatory for the proposed... Let me repeat that... the proposed future dismantling of some of the shrines they built to abusers. They knew about the abuse for years, and only started to make any effort to change things after people found out and became upset about it. Afrasiabi provides a prime example. He was fired in 2020 for being an abuser, but it wasn't until after that became public knowledge that they started cleaning up references to him. It is the absolute minimum they can do, and the very definition of performative and self-serving. Nobody should be singing their praises simply because they opted to not do nothing at all.
I repeat, Blizzard is not your friend. Why won't people be nice and think the best of the poor beleaguered billion dollar company with a corporate culture rife with sexual harassment is a hell of a take.
I do think it's funny how the OW have pretty much given up on making Bastion and Mei work in their current states and have basically guttered them until OW2.
Mei got played a few times in OWL finals IIRC. She's just pretty niche, akin to Doomfist or Genji.
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Will you find victory in these twisting streets, or will the curse of Malevento claim you too?
I don't play FFA because of people rage quiting and getting partial games
This map and other things really do question when overwatch 2 is going to drop since I am not doubting next year.
But on the thoughts of getting in partial games seems to be the norm any more
According to the launcher, there's going to be OW2 news during the OWL Grand Finals today. "Get a first look at the latest hero reworks and gameplay" they say. Starts at 7:45 PM EST.
Doomfist as Tank is something they're trying experimentally
Sombra rework: Hack has 3 second cooldown, and can be used from stealth, it only briefly reveals you. Lasts 8 seconds - disables abilities for 1 second, then reveals targets through walls for remaining 7 seconds, and Sombra does 50% more damage to hacked targets. Instead of her ultimate removing shields, it deals 40% of current health in damage, and still hacks them.
Bastion rework: New hat! No longer has self-repair. Alt fire shoots a bouncing projectile that sticks to players and explodes in a large radius. Primary fire has no spread, but reduced fire rate. Tank mode is replaced with artillery mode. He can call down 3 artillery strikes anywhere in the map from a bird's eye view. He can now move at 50% speed during sentry mode, but it has a duration and cooldown.
There will be a full OW2 match coming during half-time, but I gather this is all the real news they had prepared for today.
BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
Huh, thats more interesting than I thought it'd be.
I do appreciate that they've lasered in on the fact that a lot of the hard-counter style characters are some of the most problematic in terms of floor-ceiling potential, and making them less extreme would help greatly
All three of these characters (except Sombra I guess, I don't hate where she's at but I'm glad they're working on her) would make the game much more enjoyable for me if they were tuned to be less silly
More and more I wonder what they're going to do about OW1. Do they still really intend to patch all this into the base game? Bastion's rework is built around his new character model. I'm excited about the new stuff but I'm not sure effectively deleting OW1 is the right thing to do. I think they're waiting to spring the news that it will be a separate game. Maybe they'll do F2P PvP or something like that.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited September 2021
bastion rework good sombra rework 50% good 50% stupid
more wallhacks bad less cc duration good hack out of stealth ehhh more damage good hard countering shields replaced with damage equally effective vs all good
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But if this guy truly did some messed up stuff and is that much of a stigma to Blizzard, get rid of the character completely because he can't be salvaged. It's an either/or situation, not trying to have your cake and eat it too when you're the people who fostered this situation.
What were Jesse McCree's crimes? A Kotaku article covering the story points out he was in a hotel room next to a giant photo of Bill Cosby. Did McCree sexually assault women there in 2013?
I don't think we know what he did specifically, just that he was let go in the recent wave of firings and obviously this decision confirms that internally they know it's bad.
what is your ideal outcome?
it's not actually an either/or situation
nobody agrees with you my dude, so maybe you should reflect on how you're approaching this situation
Calling it the streisand effect is pretty dumb, the point isn't for people to not find out that Jesse McCree the person sucks but rather to remove a thing honoring a person who sucks
If you think the only moral way to remove the stain of having honored a person who was later fired in connection with an enormous sexual harassment lawsuit is to delete the character the character then thats cool, I think that may be a little much (unless the character modeled off the person in ways besides the name) but your heart is in the right place
Right now it just seems like you're upset they're gonna change the cowboys name and you dont want them to but its unclear why
BUT I can also see how having one of your characters named after a possible abuser could really hurt company morale.
And getting overly attached to a name is pretty silly.
It is not even really an accurate use of the term "Streisand Effect". Overwatch wants this to be more known because they want credit for the action of trying to fix things. The Streisand effect refers to where you are trying to suppress knowledge of an event entirely but in the process you publicize the knowledge you wanted to go away. Like David Nunes suing a twitter cow account. He doesn't want credit for suing the twitter account, he wants it to go away so people stop making fun of him.
Sure, they haven't done shit for years, but oooh, too bad. We were JUUUUUST about to do a big thing next month and now can't. Shucks golly darn. Sorry, guys. We're thinking of you.
Why would they make that up? If they weren't going to do it before, they certainly have to now.
https://kotaku.com/inside-blizzard-developers-infamous-bill-cosby-suite-1847378762
Are you intentionally downplaying or did you not read the article.
It got named the Cosby Suite, and the picture brought because
And rather than be angry or embassed or ashamed by this they leaned into it
This Afrasiabi grabbed women and was fired in 2020. Did Jesse McCree grab or coerce women in the Cosby Suite or did he passively stand by and let it happen? Was he a Donald Trump or was he a Billy Bush?
Why would a corporation lie, painting themselves as the good guy in every way? Hard at work, but no, you can't see it or any evidence of it, just take their word. Corporations are not your friend. Particularly not corporations filled with corruption and duplicity.
It might be believable if this was something that they had already announced, was in progress, or something that they did regularly, but it's none of those things. They could have said anything there, a new character, a major update, Overwatch 2, but keeping it vague covers literally anything they may feel like, or more likely, absolutely nothing at all when a couple months pass and it fades from memory, same as all the other shit Blizzard has gotten themselves in hot water over for the past couple years. Shit, it was only two years ago when Blizzcon started out with a whole big thing about how they trying their hardest to improve and be a better and more socially responsible company after the Blitzchung stuff, yet were still burying all the sexism and harassment, so couldn't have been trying that hard.
They almost never pre-announce upcoming content until the teaser in the last few days, and they didn't have to do it this time either. "Keeping it vague" is a lot more clarity than usual. I don't see what part of their statement is hard to believe, why is a conspiracy theory necessary? I'm finding it much more difficult to understand the rationale behind fabricating a story update when no one was expecting one, putting themselves on the hook to actually make one now. They could have just said they were changing his name and given a rough timeline of when that would happen.
The belief that corporations are inherently trustworthy, forthright, and can always be taken at their word in the best possible reading is a hell of a lot more of a conspiracy theory than plain old skepticism in the face of a self-serving press release by an embattled company that makes only vague future promises about unspecified content on an ethereal, unknowable timeline.
You're making strawmen. If you think about it rationally, the theory that they're telling the truth on this one simply makes more sense than the theory that it's all an elaborate ruse.
Of course it can't be verified, how would any of us ever be able to verify anything that they announce? That doesn't automatically make it suspicious.
The cynical take is that Blizzard gave up on OW1 years ago and would never put out a free story update before OW2. So when they had to rename McCree, they also invented this imaginary delayed update to trick people into thinking they're still working on the game so they get some arguably good PR (if you think a delay is good PR). The problem with this theory is that by doing that, now they actually do have to make this story update, which the whole theory hinges on them not wanting to do in the first place.
No one expected a story update. There would have been no negative PR about it had they not mentioned it. The theory simply doesn't make sense.
You're making a lot of extremely dubious assumptions. That the current situation is neutral/good PR for Blizzard. That it will be a major update. That it will be a substantive one. That it really was planned just a week or two out.
If in December, they put out a 10 page short story and a skin, that's "new story and game content," and in fact how they've described things like the Ana Bastet challenge in the past. Maybe they do now put one together for three months from now that they hadn't planned on before, or maybe four months go by and "Oh, we decided to focus on OW2 instead to make it the best game possible for you," like the same excuse they've used for years now. The important part is singing their own praises, and kicking the can far down the road without making any actual promises they'd need to deliver on, but especially singing their own praises.
If Blizzard are planning to remove even the milder references in World of Warcraft items, there was next to no chance they wouldn't address this.
All this said, I'm sure there are certainly people on the Overwatch team who genuinely feel what their statement is expressing with their whole heart, but the rot starts at the top and they are really just being used as a PR bludgeon at this point. To me it's entirely meaningless until the actual internal toxicity is excised. That's a public twitter post I might actually give a shit about, but that will probably never happen.
Can you at least acknowledge it's good that they're removing a sexual predator's namesake from the game? Can you find one good thing in this game that you post about so often instead of looking for the worst possible interpretation (which you've made up with zero evidence)?
I mean Jesus Christ some of you are just literally impossible to please.
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder
There were a lot of things named after him in WoW, and those were the first changes they announced.
I do think it's funny how the OW have pretty much given up on making Bastion and Mei work in their current states and have basically guttered them until OW2.
I guess I'm in favor of not changing the name, personally; this is a character with a background all his own at this point, who is deeply ingrained in the lore of the Overwatch universe. He's more than an NPC who just stands around in Stormwind, basically. And most players probably aren't even aware that McCree was named after a developer at Blizzard. So if it were up to me, I'd say fuck it and leave the character as it is.
But I'm also in literal full-on "fuck Blizzard" mode, so I really don't give a shit what they do.
No. Absolutely and categorically no. Nobody is under any obligation to be laudatory for the proposed... Let me repeat that... the proposed future dismantling of some of the shrines they built to abusers. They knew about the abuse for years, and only started to make any effort to change things after people found out and became upset about it. Afrasiabi provides a prime example. He was fired in 2020 for being an abuser, but it wasn't until after that became public knowledge that they started cleaning up references to him. It is the absolute minimum they can do, and the very definition of performative and self-serving. Nobody should be singing their praises simply because they opted to not do nothing at all.
I repeat, Blizzard is not your friend. Why won't people be nice and think the best of the poor beleaguered billion dollar company with a corporate culture rife with sexual harassment is a hell of a take.
Mei got played a few times in OWL finals IIRC. She's just pretty niche, akin to Doomfist or Genji.
Mei is pretty much her wall and stall tactics ever since they killed her primary fire.
FFA! :?
I don't play FFA because of people rage quiting and getting partial games
This map and other things really do question when overwatch 2 is going to drop since I am not doubting next year.
But on the thoughts of getting in partial games seems to be the norm any more
There will be a full OW2 match coming during half-time, but I gather this is all the real news they had prepared for today.
I do appreciate that they've lasered in on the fact that a lot of the hard-counter style characters are some of the most problematic in terms of floor-ceiling potential, and making them less extreme would help greatly
All three of these characters (except Sombra I guess, I don't hate where she's at but I'm glad they're working on her) would make the game much more enjoyable for me if they were tuned to be less silly
more wallhacks bad less cc duration good hack out of stealth ehhh more damage good hard countering shields replaced with damage equally effective vs all good