I know we love to put everything we don't like on executive meddling, but has there been any actual after-action interview with the devs or anything that confirms it? Like, is there actual proof that EA said "We want you to make Ellie 'sexier' and add a completely unnecessary love plot", or is it something the devs decided to do themselves?
I know we love to put everything we don't like on executive meddling, but has there been any actual after-action interview with the devs or anything that confirms it? Like, is there actual proof that EA said "We want you to make Ellie 'sexier' and add a completely unnecessary love plot", or is it something the devs decided to do themselves?
Well, co-op was plopped into the games development about halfway through, so it wasn't originally conceived as a 2 player game but "someone" has the idea late in the game to change gears which I think made the game suffer overall
Most of it I can see (I distinctly remember speculation/assumption that we'd be getting co-op pretty much as soon as people reached the end of DS2), but the common assumption was that obviously it would be Issac and Ellie.
My cynical imagination then pictures someone going "A playable woman? We'll just get called a Tomb Raider knock-off", and mandating a new partner, relegating the woman to the role of Damsel in Distress however badass she was before.
I know we love to put everything we don't like on executive meddling, but has there been any actual after-action interview with the devs or anything that confirms it? Like, is there actual proof that EA said "We want you to make Ellie 'sexier' and add a completely unnecessary love plot", or is it something the devs decided to do themselves?
Well, co-op was plopped into the games development about halfway through, so it wasn't originally conceived as a 2 player game but "someone" has the idea late in the game to change gears which I think made the game suffer overall
Are you sure about that? From what I've heard, Visceral was actually pondering multiplayer as far back as the first game. Then they actually had full multiplayer in 2 and moved to co-op for 3.
I know we love to put everything we don't like on executive meddling, but has there been any actual after-action interview with the devs or anything that confirms it? Like, is there actual proof that EA said "We want you to make Ellie 'sexier' and add a completely unnecessary love plot", or is it something the devs decided to do themselves?
Well, co-op was plopped into the games development about halfway through, so it wasn't originally conceived as a 2 player game but "someone" has the idea late in the game to change gears which I think made the game suffer overall
Are you sure about that? From what I've heard, Visceral was actually pondering multiplayer as far back as the first game. Then they actually had full multiplayer in 2 and moved to co-op for 3.
I was going off the Wikipedia, which has a section where devs disagree about the origins of the co-op.
Producer John Calhoun has stated that the game was designed from the ground up to support drop-in, drop-out cooperative play.However, according to producer Chuck Beaver co-op mode was introduced in the middle of production. According to executive producer Steve Papoutsis a cooperative mode was considered late in the development of the first game in the series, but the idea dropped due to insufficient time to implement it and incompatibility with the game's story.
I'm fairly certain EA wanted Dead Space to be a big tentpole release like a Battlefield, and they felt that making the game more action, more players (Dead Space 2 had an awful multi mode) and more microtransactions, they could milk the franchise. But Dead Space 3 "underperformed" in the eyes of EA (hmmm maybe because you made the third game an action co-op shooter and not a horror game) and they canned Dead Space 4 in favor of making them just literally make Battlefield games until the studio was smothered in it's sleep
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited July 2021
Yeah, EA was angry because a new horror franchise was "only" selling several million copies with each iteration instead of 10 million+ like they wanted, so they butchered the franchise into a shitty third-person shooter in the final installment of the trilogy and then buried the whole thing when that final shot proved to be worthless for ripping people of with MTX. And just for kicks, they murdered an excellent dev team along the way.
A premiere example of how astonishingly bad publishers can be at understanding the game industry while still raking in stupid amount of money through shitty practices. But hey, at least EA decided to dump shitloads of money into totally unnecessary and third-rate additional media, then tag those expenses on to the franchise as well to even further justify killing all of it.
There's a lot wrong with DS3, but I can see why and how it got more actiony; horror just can't keep being effective with the same villains.
All scary enemies (not just in horror genres, but anything where they're meant to be scary and dangerous) rely on being the unknown at first. The heroes don't know how to deal with them, they're unlike anything they've faced before and the tried and tested methods of fighting them don't work. They're immune to bullets, headshots don't work, they adapt to all your weapons.
First appearance of these enemies, the heroes almost never win. Their only victory is that some (usually not all) of them escape with their lives.
Then the villains come back, and the survivors are more prepared for them. They know what won't work on them, and come up with tactics that will. Stop attacking their strengths, learn about their weak points.
By the third instalment, the horror isn't working anymore because the heroes aren't up against the unknown anymore, so the only response is to turn up the spectacle.
Issac goes from (presumably) scared shitless in 1 to determined to find a way out of this in 2, and by 3 he's just pissed off that he's still fighting these fucking things.
But it's a necessary change, because if he was still scared shitless by regular necromorphs after everything he'd gone through, he'd have to be an idiot incapable of changing.
Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
+2
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited July 2021
Changing the facing towards action was not the problem. Dead Space 2 also shifted more towards action and it did it extremely well, without dropping a the slightest bit of the quality of the combat and weapon design from the first game; the enemies from the first game were worked in, and new enemies added to reflect the more combat-heavy focus plus new excellent weapons to fight with. Stasis and telekinesis were also updated to make them much more interesting and reliable combat options. The exception is all the dumbass microtransaction "custom" weapons and suits shoehorned in later by EA, several of which have ridiculously OP traits and take a huge swipe at the game balance.
Dead Space 3 just... gives up. The weapon design is thoroughly atrocious; all those iconic weapons are completely dead and gone, replaced with a trashy, broken DIY system which almost immediately throws the whole "shoot off limbs" idea, which is a cornerstone element of the franchise, right out the window. Along with that comes universal ammo, which is just... ugh. So no more tension at all from managing resources. To try and offset how absurdly easy the shitty gun system makes the game, they increase enemy speed some 2x-3x to try and force you to take damage. The custom weapon shit also brought the upgrade system, replacing the excellent node-based upgrades with a crappy excuse to shove MTX into the game. And the less said about shoving human enemies into the game, the better.
And that's just on the gameplay side and doesn't even begin to address the atrocious shit they did with the characters and writing.
Ninja Snarl P on
+7
ArmsForPeace84Your Partner In FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited August 2021
I'll be waiting until after release, then checking out some hands-on impressions. My affection for the original can really only work against it, here. As it is inadmissible as evidence for the defense of a completely new game.
A remaster, executed competently, would have been "shut up and take my money." That was probably well understood in the boardroom where this choice was made. Hopefully it was equally felt, around the table, that trying to relaunch Dead Space as a Live Services IP will amount to tossing it on the bonfire of other such quickly-abandoned money pits.
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Isaac having a voice in the first game is an objective improvement.
I just don't trust EA not to shit up the experience, notably by adding an unnecessary multiplayer mode or microtransactions. I loved Dead Space as a franchise and I actually own all the comics etc, but Dead Space 3 was a huge let down. I really want a game more in line with Dead Space and Dead Space 2, which were great.
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Personally I was more impressed with the fact Isaac had a massive potty mouth in Dead Space 2. My first reaction to his VA in the second game was that Isaac really had a lot of fucks to get out after the first game.
This is good news! Loved his voice and love they got him back.
I can't believe he didn't do his most iconic line!
"RARGH! *stomp* YAUGH! *stomp* HUAUGH! *stomp*"
Stick around I'm full of bad ideas is pretty iconic for me. I swear I thought that was the line before returning to the ishimura. Which you know good choice script person for this video.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Isaac having a voice in the first game is an objective improvement.
I just don't trust EA not to shit up the experience, notably by adding an unnecessary multiplayer mode or microtransactions. I loved Dead Space as a franchise and I actually own all the comics etc, but Dead Space 3 was a huge let down. I really want a game more in line with Dead Space and Dead Space 2, which were great.
This is good news! Loved his voice and love they got him back.
I can't believe he didn't do his most iconic line!
"RARGH! *stomp* YAUGH! *stomp* HUAUGH! *stomp*"
Stick around I'm full of bad ideas is pretty iconic for me. I swear I thought that was the line before returning to the ishimura. Which you know good choice script person for this video.
And yes I looked it up its literally what you say before you return to the Ishimura so yes iconic line and hilarious in the context he's returning for the remake to go back to the ishimura.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Isaac having a voice in the first game is an objective improvement.
I just don't trust EA not to shit up the experience, notably by adding an unnecessary multiplayer mode or microtransactions. I loved Dead Space as a franchise and I actually own all the comics etc, but Dead Space 3 was a huge let down. I really want a game more in line with Dead Space and Dead Space 2, which were great.
This is good news! Loved his voice and love they got him back.
I can't believe he didn't do his most iconic line!
"RARGH! *stomp* YAUGH! *stomp* HUAUGH! *stomp*"
Stick around I'm full of bad ideas is pretty iconic for me. I swear I thought that was the line before returning to the ishimura. Which you know good choice script person for this video.
And yes I looked it up its literally what you say before you return to the Ishimura so yes iconic line and hilarious in the context he's returning for the remake to go back to the ishimura.
Here is a fun fact. That iconic sequence occurred because of budget issues and a need to fill some gameplay space cheaply. Everything about it is so minimalist because they couldn't afford a lot of art assets and such for that particular part of the game, but the total minimal aspect of it was what made it so brilliant.
Almost a happy accident caused by budgetary constraints.
I want to replay the first game now keeping in mind that they'll have Isaac voiced for the remake. More than a few moments where his potty mouth would be extremely present and called for.
0
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
That new dismemberment technology looks fabulous though. Also be really great to tell health by how much flesh and bones are still intact on your target, which is a great touch.
-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
I’m at least cautiously optimistic.
+1
GreenStick around.I'm full of bad ideas.Registered Userregular
As much as I love Dead Space, I don't want to reward EA for unceremoniously killing off Visceral and now trying to cash in on the nostalgia dollar. I would rather see the franchise dead and buried than brought back like this. Saving all my hopes for Callisto Protocol.
Posts
This is pretty cool once it stops trying to be 4/10 gears of war.
I cannot understand why they started with "fight human enemies".
Also (minor spoilers):
I will reiterate. WILDLY UNNECESSARY
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
It's especially egregious since I'm pretty sure
So not only is the love triangle a bad idea in principle, but there asking us to be be invested in a romance we never actually see!
Well, co-op was plopped into the games development about halfway through, so it wasn't originally conceived as a 2 player game but "someone" has the idea late in the game to change gears which I think made the game suffer overall
My cynical imagination then pictures someone going "A playable woman? We'll just get called a Tomb Raider knock-off", and mandating a new partner, relegating the woman to the role of Damsel in Distress however badass she was before.
Are you sure about that? From what I've heard, Visceral was actually pondering multiplayer as far back as the first game. Then they actually had full multiplayer in 2 and moved to co-op for 3.
I was going off the Wikipedia, which has a section where devs disagree about the origins of the co-op. I'm fairly certain EA wanted Dead Space to be a big tentpole release like a Battlefield, and they felt that making the game more action, more players (Dead Space 2 had an awful multi mode) and more microtransactions, they could milk the franchise. But Dead Space 3 "underperformed" in the eyes of EA (hmmm maybe because you made the third game an action co-op shooter and not a horror game) and they canned Dead Space 4 in favor of making them just literally make Battlefield games until the studio was smothered in it's sleep
Anyways here's this
https://youtu.be/L-75DukaySo
A premiere example of how astonishingly bad publishers can be at understanding the game industry while still raking in stupid amount of money through shitty practices. But hey, at least EA decided to dump shitloads of money into totally unnecessary and third-rate additional media, then tag those expenses on to the franchise as well to even further justify killing all of it.
All scary enemies (not just in horror genres, but anything where they're meant to be scary and dangerous) rely on being the unknown at first. The heroes don't know how to deal with them, they're unlike anything they've faced before and the tried and tested methods of fighting them don't work. They're immune to bullets, headshots don't work, they adapt to all your weapons.
First appearance of these enemies, the heroes almost never win. Their only victory is that some (usually not all) of them escape with their lives.
Then the villains come back, and the survivors are more prepared for them. They know what won't work on them, and come up with tactics that will. Stop attacking their strengths, learn about their weak points.
By the third instalment, the horror isn't working anymore because the heroes aren't up against the unknown anymore, so the only response is to turn up the spectacle.
Issac goes from (presumably) scared shitless in 1 to determined to find a way out of this in 2, and by 3 he's just pissed off that he's still fighting these fucking things.
But it's a necessary change, because if he was still scared shitless by regular necromorphs after everything he'd gone through, he'd have to be an idiot incapable of changing.
Dead Space 3 just... gives up. The weapon design is thoroughly atrocious; all those iconic weapons are completely dead and gone, replaced with a trashy, broken DIY system which almost immediately throws the whole "shoot off limbs" idea, which is a cornerstone element of the franchise, right out the window. Along with that comes universal ammo, which is just... ugh. So no more tension at all from managing resources. To try and offset how absurdly easy the shitty gun system makes the game, they increase enemy speed some 2x-3x to try and force you to take damage. The custom weapon shit also brought the upgrade system, replacing the excellent node-based upgrades with a crappy excuse to shove MTX into the game. And the less said about shoving human enemies into the game, the better.
And that's just on the gameplay side and doesn't even begin to address the atrocious shit they did with the characters and writing.
A remaster, executed competently, would have been "shut up and take my money." That was probably well understood in the boardroom where this choice was made. Hopefully it was equally felt, around the table, that trying to relaunch Dead Space as a Live Services IP will amount to tossing it on the bonfire of other such quickly-abandoned money pits.
This is good news! Loved his voice and love they got him back.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I just don't trust EA not to shit up the experience, notably by adding an unnecessary multiplayer mode or microtransactions. I loved Dead Space as a franchise and I actually own all the comics etc, but Dead Space 3 was a huge let down. I really want a game more in line with Dead Space and Dead Space 2, which were great.
I'm just not willing to get excited about this.
I can't believe he didn't do his most iconic line!
"RARGH! *stomp* YAUGH! *stomp* HUAUGH! *stomp*"
Steam ID XBL: JohnnyChopsocky PSN:Stud_Beefpile WiiU:JohnnyChopsocky
Stick around I'm full of bad ideas is pretty iconic for me. I swear I thought that was the line before returning to the ishimura. Which you know good choice script person for this video.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Apparently, the said no mtx in the stream today.
And yes I looked it up its literally what you say before you return to the Ishimura so yes iconic line and hilarious in the context he's returning for the remake to go back to the ishimura.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I'll believe it when I see it.
Here is a fun fact. That iconic sequence occurred because of budget issues and a need to fill some gameplay space cheaply. Everything about it is so minimalist because they couldn't afford a lot of art assets and such for that particular part of the game, but the total minimal aspect of it was what made it so brilliant.
Almost a happy accident caused by budgetary constraints.
The fog on the floor is great touch.
I want to believe.
Man, the decision to put human bad guys in the game was just not thought through.
My assault rifle with underslung gravity buzz saw is P cool though.
Also LOL (spoilers)
Because Norton is a fuckwit, sold us out to Danik and I put a bullet through his head.
Blind prediction:
Then I looked at his body, muttered "for fucks sake" and walked off.
Then Ellie gave me shit about it and I yelled "oh piss off" and the screen.