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[Phalla] F-Zero PX II - Race Finale: The New Champion of F-Zero PX is...

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Posts

  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    Oh, thanks for the reminder. Invictus, unfortunately, had to drop after signing up, so I set up all of their pilot and machine creation myself. Nobody else chose Vengeful, so I felt obligated as host to make use of what I put together. That ability informed the punny machine name, Wight Wail, and at that point I felt like I needed to commit to the bit and continue the pun with the pilot name Morty Slick. I didn't put a whole lot of thought into the visual aesthetics for the pilot or machine, but I imagine Morty being some kind of greaser or biker punk, wearing a skeleton-printed biker gear.

    Also, I remembered to copy this into a text file:
    Lucedes wrote: »
    it says "Maximum Speed" on this dial, but perhaps if i just... crank it further...

    *terrible wrenching noises*
    I totally should have made this a player ability. Then again, twelve abilities were enough. I cut two abilities from my brainstorming. "Friendly" basically made it so you couldn't attack or be attacked, and I cut it for just voiding too much of the mechanics. "First Lap Hero" gave advantage on every sector of the first lap. I cut it since it felt like it overlapped with Qualifying Expert too much, and I also wanted an even spread of speed, defense, and attack abilities in the list.

    4463rwiq7r47.png
    Lucedes
  • BrodyBrody Registered User regular
    Yeah. Gizzy and I weren't certain how to really use the scanning beacon. We were very significantly time restricted, and I spent the whole time worried the mafia wouldn't actually show up on the ability scanner. I just sort of hoped that w/e the mafia did, it would be obvious enough for the scanner. Its not like I could ask for a copy of the Mafia PM. I had considered trying to find a way to sort of force a falsehood out of a mafia player, but couldn't think of anything given the limits on where/who we could scan, and what we could see. At least I had a partner, which made it a little less daunting coming back.

    When you guys killed me right after I had told ahava about the seer, I thought for sure she was the mafia player. Her accusing you in the thread filled me with absolute dread, and then disc died mafia and my brain exploded. I thought for a hot minute that ahava had pulled off the absolutely most cold blooded mafia move ever.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson

    Steam: Korvalain
    discriderlonelyahavaLucedesH3Knuckleskime3cl1ps3JaysonFour
  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Registered User regular
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    edited September 2021
    I feel pretty good about myself for finding Disc and Cythraul.

    I deliberately stopped talking in our chat because I thought that's what I'd do if I was told the other person in chat had been action seen.
    Would've talked more if you hadn't killed Brody, Ahava :p
    I instead was spending my time feeding Brody my actions for the day in other PMs.

    Hadn't considered that this would make me suspect as anything to Ahava.
    Not sure there was a good way to play that.

    discrider on
  • lonelyahavalonelyahava Registered User regular
    My knitting brain told me that Brody would have still been alive if he hadn't mentioned trying to secure a wider network.

    But in telling me that, it set you up to no longer be in complete control of the network, and so you had to mitigate that at all costs.

    And of course you would stop talking to the person you thought was a mafia after they liked the seer, that just makes sense

    Except

    I wasn't mafia, so you had to be.

    I should have pushed harder on Cyth and likely lucedes.

    H3KnucklesBrody
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    edited September 2021
    Brody was also sixth.
    So...
    Mafia could have got him by accident

    And Brody had to die so Gizzy would contact me.

    discrider on
  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    edited September 2021
    Should also say, I think I killed Austin because I was trying to figure who would soft network with Brody and tell them about their specialness without seeing Brody first.

    discrider on
  • AustinP0027AustinP0027 Registered User regular
    discrider wrote: »
    Should also say, I think I killed Austin because I was trying to figure who would soft network with Brody and tell them about their specialness without seeing Brody first.

    I was actually coming here to say basically this same thing.

    I died because the assumption was that I might be the Action Seer because of networking with Brody.

    In fact, Brody and I did send messages, but it was the first we've soft networked in a really long time. My first message literally started "It's been a long time since I sent a Phalla message your way. Too long."

    And this is the thanks I get! :D

    BrodydiscriderH3KnucklesLucedes
  • Romantic UndeadRomantic Undead Registered User regular
    Morning guys!

    Well, that went about as well as I expected.

    Overall, I had decent fun, but boy, arguing with villagers when you're trying to make it as obvious as possible that you're one of them is *exhausting*.

    When day 3 started, it became obvious to me that I wasn't going to win this thing, so that's when I decided that I would abandon the "win the race" win condition and become an outspoken villager.

    My first suspicion on who was mafia happened after Brody died and he was in like, 6th place or something. My immediate thought was "oh no, Brody was a special and the Mafia figured it out somehow".

    When Gizzy came out in the thread and that drama started, I knew she had been betrayed, so all I needed to do was figure out who betrayed her: discrider or ahava. My gut said discrider so I voted for him, breaking the tie that was going on at the time.

    Once discrider died red, and I knew that our specials were dead, I figured the only chance the village would have at getting through this would be if it started working together, so I started on my effort posts and reached out to the folks who helped take out discrider: premium, TehSpectre, ahava and later, Kime. My instincts were good, and we were all villagers. What I didn't anticipate was that, somehow, being instrumental in getting the only mafia kill in the game would give me NO CRED with the rest of the village.

    In my mind I was like "everyone will see me and ahava as a confirmed villagers and trust us now, plus I will act as a spoiler for the mafia, giving our other high-performing villagers some room to breathe"

    Problem was, the villagers who I didn't include in the circle of trust also didn't trust me, and I spent most of the rest of the game arguing with other villagers, 38th and 3clipse, for example, who were both too paranoid to accept that the only folks to have killed a mafia were on their side. The rest of the village was more interested in trying to win the race for themselves than to collaborate in keeping suspicious characters in check, even if they were at the bottom of the pack, and that was that.

    I was disappointed that the villagers who were placing poorly didn't make more of an effort to help the rest of us root out mafia and instead just seemed to disengage from the game, basically just giving up. It feels like the racing mechanic subsumed the phalla-ness of the game and folks were just like "secondary win condition - more like loser participation trophy! I'm out!"

    Anyways, that's my take. Thanks for running @MrBlarney !

    3DS FC: 1547-5210-6531
    H3Knuckles
  • 38thDoe38thDoe Registered User regular
    Thanks for running @MrBlarney I enjoyed the racing quite a bit.

    I don't think I had a chance of winning but I wonder how I would have done if I had only voted and raced and ignored posting. In any case I won't try and interact with ahava again. I didn't initially think that Romantic Undead or ahava were mafia but then the way they both telling me how ahava felt made me think they were talking behind the scenes as mafia. Also ahava was on me for my animated gifs, but said nothing about cythrauls (In my mind because they were both mafia together). Very frustrating for me.

  • MamaWolfMamaWolf Registered User regular
    Thanks for running the game @MrBlarney it was fun! Sorry I was still no help. As stated from others the last Phalla I was in burned me hard and I guess my mind didn't recover well lol

    "May the moon watch over you and keep you safe through the night, 'till the morning comes and MamaWolf can protect you through the day"
  • BrodyBrody Registered User regular
    I did have fun though. I've missed playing with y'all. I'm less worried about feeling like we were unbalanced, and more just feel like I let the village down.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson

    Steam: Korvalain
  • GizzyGizzy Registered User regular
    Brody wrote: »
    I did have fun though. I've missed playing with y'all. I'm less worried about feeling like we were unbalanced, and more just feel like I let the village down.

    I was worried about this too a couple of different times, and maybe we didn't play the role as ideally as we could - but I'm thinking it's more a combo of the game being a little unbalanced and a lot of what RU was saying. It's hard to play a team game when half the team is disengaged.

    Switch Animal Crossing Friend Code: SW-5107-9276-1030
    Island Name: Felinefine
    H3Knuckles
  • Romantic UndeadRomantic Undead Registered User regular
    Brody wrote: »
    I did have fun though. I've missed playing with y'all. I'm less worried about feeling like we were unbalanced, and more just feel like I let the village down.

    Hey Brody, could you remind me, why did you and Gizzy reach out to discrider again? Was there a reason you thought you could trust him?

    3DS FC: 1547-5210-6531
  • GizzyGizzy Registered User regular
    The only reason I personally reached out to Discrider the day I did was because I was planning on revealing to thread anyways. So it didn't matter if I told the mafia, the mafia were going to find out. I just needed someone to bounce my thoughts off of.

    Brody reached out the day after I scanned Disc because he was excited to softnetwork. And I was pretty much like well this doesn't clear disc, but if you're already talking to him and have a good feeling we can see where that goes. We can play this as loosely or as tightly as you want, whatever's the most fun.

    Switch Animal Crossing Friend Code: SW-5107-9276-1030
    Island Name: Felinefine
  • AlegisAlegis Registered User regular
    Problem was, the villagers who I didn't include in the circle of trust also didn't trust me, and I spent most of the rest of the game arguing with other villagers, 38th and 3clipse, for example, who were both too paranoid to accept that the only folks to have killed a mafia were on their side.
    It was mentioned and discussed quite a couple of times, but where in other games throwing a fellow mafia under the bus is a risky play because you're reducing your headcount - it's a safe play in this game because you only need 1 member to finish up top. Especially if you have a mafia member already on top who may be targeted by villagers.

    If ahava wasn't killed by mafia on the penultimate night, it would be the vote I'd have gone for on the final day. Same reason for going with SlyM (only survivor of the top cohorts).

    38thDoe
  • GizzyGizzy Registered User regular
    I should have realized we had been breeched when there was all this undertone in thread of .. is that a seer call, who's giving you your info, your info is bad. It did make me very suspicious of Endless Serpents and I had them lined up to scan next.

    (Would have ideally wanted to scan slym but how I qualified for the race came into play because it had to be someone I could pass ... if they qualified behind me I wasn't sure if it would work out that I'd slow down enough for them to pass me then speed up to pass them back and scan them. Also if they qualified too far ahead of me, wasn't sure I'd be able to catch them).

    Switch Animal Crossing Friend Code: SW-5107-9276-1030
    Island Name: Felinefine
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    I was disappointed that the villagers who were placing poorly didn't make more of an effort to help the rest of us root out mafia and instead just seemed to disengage from the game, basically just giving up. It feels like the racing mechanic subsumed the phalla-ness of the game and folks were just like "secondary win condition - more like loser participation trophy! I'm out!"
    I'm actually curious... how many folks thought of their win conditions as a primary and secondary win condition, rather than just one unified faction-oriented win condition? I used the same phrasing in the OP and role PMs as I used in the original F-Zero PX, and I don't remember any issues with the phrasing there. But if village players weren't performing enough soft networking, teamwork, or attacks (again, it was meant to be a really good cost:effect ratio!) because of their perception of their goals, that's definitely something that needs to be addressed.

    Alegis wrote: »
    Problem was, the villagers who I didn't include in the circle of trust also didn't trust me, and I spent most of the rest of the game arguing with other villagers, 38th and 3clipse, for example, who were both too paranoid to accept that the only folks to have killed a mafia were on their side.
    It was mentioned and discussed quite a couple of times, but where in other games throwing a fellow mafia under the bus is a risky play because you're reducing your headcount - it's a safe play in this game because you only need 1 member to finish up top. Especially if you have a mafia member already on top who may be targeted by villagers.

    If ahava wasn't killed by mafia on the penultimate night, it would be the vote I'd have gone for on the final day. Same reason for going with SlyM (only survivor of the top cohorts).
    Deliberately feeding a mafia player to the village is still pretty risky, since reducing your headcount also reduces your group's ability to influence the race outcomes. The amount of time you have to be able to cash in that good will from acting as a villager is also limited since there's only a total of six races. Which type of game is more risky for that type of play, I don't know. The situations aren't really easily comparable, but I think it's pretty risky in either case.

    4463rwiq7r47.png
  • Romantic UndeadRomantic Undead Registered User regular
    Alegis wrote: »
    Problem was, the villagers who I didn't include in the circle of trust also didn't trust me, and I spent most of the rest of the game arguing with other villagers, 38th and 3clipse, for example, who were both too paranoid to accept that the only folks to have killed a mafia were on their side.
    It was mentioned and discussed quite a couple of times, but where in other games throwing a fellow mafia under the bus is a risky play because you're reducing your headcount - it's a safe play in this game because you only need 1 member to finish up top. Especially if you have a mafia member already on top who may be targeted by villagers.

    If ahava wasn't killed by mafia on the penultimate night, it would be the vote I'd have gone for on the final day. Same reason for going with SlyM (only survivor of the top cohorts).

    I actually disagree with this. In a game where you only need one member of your team at the top, and a whole lot of variables that could affect that, it's in the mafia's best interest to whittle down the village (aka the competition) at every opportunity, and try and keep all of their team alive, as more of them = more shots at the podium. The Mafia didn't need to play a long game and earn the Village's trust in order to fool them this game; they just needed to eliminate the biggest threats to their odds of winning and avoid getting voted out, as they must have known that the village had no chance at voting all of them out before the end of the race. What advantage would the Mafia get by resorting to a suicide play to infiltrate a village network that they had already infiltrated, especially considering no Mafia had died yet and they were in no danger of being eliminated at the time the imagined sacrifice play took place? The only way I see that kind of play making sense would have been if discrider himself threw another teammate under the bus in order to save himself, as he was already in a soft network at that time, and that would have made his position more secure. But that's not what happened.

    Mafia cannibal plays make more sense in a traditional Mafia, where the Mafia only need one member alive to win and there is no time limit. Confusing the village via sacrifice play can start the village off on eating itself while the remaining mafia players just fade in the background and let the village do their job for them, but this game had a hard 6 day cap, so there was no time to sit back and let the village kill itself, so, once again, why would the mafia resort to that if they don't have to?

    3DS FC: 1547-5210-6531
    MrBlarneyLucedes
  • 38thDoe38thDoe Registered User regular
    Even if what you say is true and there is not way it would ever be in the mafia's interests to do this, people make sub-optimal plays or may have a less perfect understanding of the situation than you. I was reasonably certain that you were village when we were arguing, until you started seeming like you were talking to people outside the thread which I took as a sign of mafia.
    MrBlarney wrote: »
    I was disappointed that the villagers who were placing poorly didn't make more of an effort to help the rest of us root out mafia and instead just seemed to disengage from the game, basically just giving up. It feels like the racing mechanic subsumed the phalla-ness of the game and folks were just like "secondary win condition - more like loser participation trophy! I'm out!"
    I'm actually curious... how many folks thought of their win conditions as a primary and secondary win condition, rather than just one unified faction-oriented win condition? I used the same phrasing in the OP and role PMs as I used in the original F-Zero PX, and I don't remember any issues with the phrasing there. But if village players weren't performing enough soft networking, teamwork, or attacks (again, it was meant to be a really good cost:effect ratio!) because of their perception of their goals, that's definitely something that needs to be addressed.

    I saw my victory condition as have a villager win the race. I couldn't figure out how to determine if anyone else was a villager so I tried to win the race myself.
    As the game progressed I felt like Alegis and Romantic Undead were village from the amount of work they were doing. TehSpectre was confirmed by discrider's attacks against them. I tried to network with them based on that but they ignored me.

    I guess to sum up,

    The Hunt for Red October is a good read.

  • CythraulCythraul Registered User regular
    I can't believe I ended up as mafia again with E_S. The randomizer must be broken!

    Ahava always seems to have my number, so glad that hasn't changed, but also glad she didn't get to rally everyone against me :D. Oh and kime has the right idea, acting openly evil was really entertaining while I had the energy for it. The weekend was so much prep for getting the kids ready for school in a new town that I kinda let it slip. Fun while it lasted though!

    I had fun this game and appreciate the time you put into it, thanks for hosting MrB!

    Steam
    Confusion will be my epitaph
    H3Knuckles
  • Romantic UndeadRomantic Undead Registered User regular
    MrBlarney wrote: »
    I was disappointed that the villagers who were placing poorly didn't make more of an effort to help the rest of us root out mafia and instead just seemed to disengage from the game, basically just giving up. It feels like the racing mechanic subsumed the phalla-ness of the game and folks were just like "secondary win condition - more like loser participation trophy! I'm out!"
    I'm actually curious... how many folks thought of their win conditions as a primary and secondary win condition, rather than just one unified faction-oriented win condition? I used the same phrasing in the OP and role PMs as I used in the original F-Zero PX, and I don't remember any issues with the phrasing there. But if village players weren't performing enough soft networking, teamwork, or attacks (again, it was meant to be a really good cost:effect ratio!) because of their perception of their goals, that's definitely something that needs to be addressed.

    Your honor, I'd like present the following exhibits if it please the court :biggrin:
    MamaWolf wrote: »
    I have been on and off with picking rivals. I just want to win.
    I'll be honest, I haven't used the rival mechanic. The one race I won/did well in I basically seemed to pulled a Bradbury. Not ramming seems to have been the best option.
    Cythraul wrote: »
    .
    *snip* Every man/woman for themselves?

    Pretty sure there's only one trophy, bub.
    – granted he’s a mafia

    And just to quote myself for the “oh shit” realization I had at the last minute
    You know what, I said that SLyM needs to die, so I'll hold true to my word. I may not be able to win this race but lord knows if I'm going down, I'm taking someone with me! Of course, for all I know, Lecedes is the one who's going to win this and he will have been Crimson all along and no one paid attention to him at all.



    3DS FC: 1547-5210-6531
    Lucedes
  • CythraulCythraul Registered User regular
    Yeah fwiw you can't take anything I said at face value, I knew I was full of it and was just trying to spur the village into my line of thinking ;)

    Steam
    Confusion will be my epitaph
  • GizzyGizzy Registered User regular
    Cythraul wrote: »
    Yeah fwiw you can't take anything I said at face value, I knew I was full of it and was just trying to spur the village into my line of thinking ;)

    From behind the scenes as a dead person - that line did make me think you were mafia .. b/c I was like pshhh cythraul knows better!

    Switch Animal Crossing Friend Code: SW-5107-9276-1030
    Island Name: Felinefine
    CythraulH3KnucklesBrody
  • CythraulCythraul Registered User regular
    Awww you think I'm not dumb <3

    Steam
    Confusion will be my epitaph
  • CythraulCythraul Registered User regular
    I mean maybe I am cause I did say dumb things. I also just knew I wasn't a target to the village and being super sly didn't really matter. I wanted emotional responses!

    Steam
    Confusion will be my epitaph
  • Romantic UndeadRomantic Undead Registered User regular
    [
    Cythraul wrote: »
    Yeah fwiw you can't take anything I said at face value, I knew I was full of it and was just trying to spur the village into my line of thinking ;)

    Oh yeah, I know that now, in hindsight, but at the time it made me feel like you were echoing stuff other villagers were saying, as you can see from the two quotes above yours :)

    In short, your strategy was sound, because you were right, many members of the village were not interested in working together

    3DS FC: 1547-5210-6531
  • LocusLocus Registered User regular
    38thDoe wrote: »
    MrBlarney wrote: »
    I was disappointed that the villagers who were placing poorly didn't make more of an effort to help the rest of us root out mafia and instead just seemed to disengage from the game, basically just giving up. It feels like the racing mechanic subsumed the phalla-ness of the game and folks were just like "secondary win condition - more like loser participation trophy! I'm out!"
    I'm actually curious... how many folks thought of their win conditions as a primary and secondary win condition, rather than just one unified faction-oriented win condition? I used the same phrasing in the OP and role PMs as I used in the original F-Zero PX, and I don't remember any issues with the phrasing there. But if village players weren't performing enough soft networking, teamwork, or attacks (again, it was meant to be a really good cost:effect ratio!) because of their perception of their goals, that's definitely something that needs to be addressed.

    I saw my victory condition as have a villager win the race. I couldn't figure out how to determine if anyone else was a villager so I tried to win the race myself.
    As the game progressed I felt like Alegis and Romantic Undead were village from the amount of work they were doing. TehSpectre was confirmed by discrider's attacks against them. I tried to network with them based on that but they ignored me.

    I guess to sum up,

    The Hunt for Red October is a good read.
    This was also my thought process:

    1. A villager needs to be in first place at the end.
    2. I know, for sure, that I am a villager.
    3. I do not know that any other particular player is a villager.
    4. Therefore it is in the village's best interests for me, and only me, to be in first place at the end.

    To be fair I never really soft-network, and that was always going to hold me back in a game like this since no one would ever trust me. H3Knuckles had reached out just before they bit it, but that was the only person I ever talked to. In the future I will endeavor to soft-network more, and generally be more useful.

    I did have fun trying to go very fast and crashing out spectacularly, though!

    GreenH3Knuckles
  • kimekime Registered User regular
    edited September 2021
    Thanks for running, Blarney! It was fun :)

    I managed to get.... last place. Fweee :P . I was trying to go with a safe-ish Acceleration strategy and it failed horribly.

    I also had no Internet for almost the entire game (just got it fixed late yesterday), so had to play on my phone the whole time. That made it a lot harder to dive too deep.

    It was hard to see how much information there really was available to the village, I think. We killed one mafia, which helped, but the race info didn't really help discern between village or mafia. So by the end of the game, I felt like I had very little good info to go on for whom was evil or not, ie who I wanted to win. I guess we ended up voting SLyM (mafia) out the last day anyways, but still...

    kime on
    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • InfidelInfidel Registered User regular
    Village could have used more getting beat over the head about the win condition, apparently. :lol:

    I was dead so good move there?

    Uninformed majority = use your numbers!

    Seems like a lot of people realized "I can't solve the game outside of winning it myself" and instead of evaluating that strategy as a poor one and maybe looking for an alternate one a lot of people just resigned themselves to it? /shrug

    You correctly identified two mafia without any mechanics but just interpretation of events! And the limited villager power was misused.

    The balance becomes a bit of a moot argument when the village doesn't rally behind their win condition really, and I wouldn't exactly fault MrBlarney for it.

    As a host, it's pretty normal to have some level of apathy and you account for it, wasn't really just that imo though.

    OrokosPA.png
    MrBlarney
  • kimekime Registered User regular
    We correctly identified two mafia and also incorrectly identified a bunch of others :P

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • Romantic UndeadRomantic Undead Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    We correctly identified two mafia and also incorrectly identified a bunch of others :P

    Like every single other phalla? lol

    What frustrated me is the dogged insistence, by several villagers, that those of us who had openly helped the village just couldn't be trusted. Not just not trusted, but outright mistrusted. For future reference, what else could a villager have done in this game to have earned trust?

    3DS FC: 1547-5210-6531
    H3Knuckles
  • InfidelInfidel Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    We correctly identified two mafia and also incorrectly identified a bunch of others :P

    Uncertainty? In my phalla? :tell_me_more:

    A good strategy is one that increases your probability of success, results may vary and it doesn't prove/disprove a strategy. That's a phallacy/outcome bias.

    Like previous game having a mafia bus an ally doesn't mean you should throw out vote record analysis even though it really changed the outcome of such strategy. And also why you don't rely on any one thing but it was still the correct play to go by with what village had at the time.

    OrokosPA.png
  • 38thDoe38thDoe Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    We correctly identified two mafia and also incorrectly identified a bunch of others :P

    Like every single other phalla? lol

    What frustrated me is the dogged insistence, by several villagers, that those of us who had openly helped the village just couldn't be trusted. Not just not trusted, but outright mistrusted. For future reference, what else could a villager have done in this game to have earned trust?

    be attacked by the mafia is pretty clear. Putting in work is always apparent. give their thoughts on current players? figure out some kind of strategy for the game? Of course there were more quiet people than mafia but not much you can do about that.

  • kimekime Registered User regular
    Infidel wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    We correctly identified two mafia and also incorrectly identified a bunch of others :P

    Uncertainty? In my phalla? :tell_me_more:

    A good strategy is one that increases your probability of success, results may vary and it doesn't prove/disprove a strategy. That's a phallacy/outcome bias.

    Like previous game having a mafia bus an ally doesn't mean you should throw out vote record analysis even though it really changed the outcome of such strategy. And also why you don't rely on any one thing but it was still the correct play to go by with what village had at the time.

    I'm not really sure what you are trying to argue, I think.

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • InfidelInfidel Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    Infidel wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    We correctly identified two mafia and also incorrectly identified a bunch of others :P

    Uncertainty? In my phalla? :tell_me_more:

    A good strategy is one that increases your probability of success, results may vary and it doesn't prove/disprove a strategy. That's a phallacy/outcome bias.

    Like previous game having a mafia bus an ally doesn't mean you should throw out vote record analysis even though it really changed the outcome of such strategy. And also why you don't rely on any one thing but it was still the correct play to go by with what village had at the time.

    I'm not really sure what you are trying to argue, I think.

    That it's incorrect to point at being wrong and invalidating your methodology? What else is there to your original sentence? Was there a point being made?

    Having a methodology that sometimes nails mafia is the core strategy to mafia/werewolf.

    OrokosPA.png
  • Romantic UndeadRomantic Undead Registered User regular
    38thDoe wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    We correctly identified two mafia and also incorrectly identified a bunch of others :P

    Like every single other phalla? lol

    What frustrated me is the dogged insistence, by several villagers, that those of us who had openly helped the village just couldn't be trusted. Not just not trusted, but outright mistrusted. For future reference, what else could a villager have done in this game to have earned trust?

    be attacked by the mafia is pretty clear. Putting in work is always apparent. give their thoughts on current players? figure out some kind of strategy for the game? Of course there were more quiet people than mafia but not much you can do about that.

    But... but I did all of those things.

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  • 38thDoe38thDoe Registered User regular
    So basically just go with vote records and hope it works if you can't think of any better system. Yeah that makes sense.

  • 38thDoe38thDoe Registered User regular
    38thDoe wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    We correctly identified two mafia and also incorrectly identified a bunch of others :P

    Like every single other phalla? lol

    What frustrated me is the dogged insistence, by several villagers, that those of us who had openly helped the village just couldn't be trusted. Not just not trusted, but outright mistrusted. For future reference, what else could a villager have done in this game to have earned trust?

    be attacked by the mafia is pretty clear. Putting in work is always apparent. give their thoughts on current players? figure out some kind of strategy for the game? Of course there were more quiet people than mafia but not much you can do about that.

    But... but I did all of those things.

    That's why I thought you were village! It was just hard to work with you when you since you were trying to get me killed!

  • kimekime Registered User regular
    Infidel wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    Infidel wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    We correctly identified two mafia and also incorrectly identified a bunch of others :P

    Uncertainty? In my phalla? :tell_me_more:

    A good strategy is one that increases your probability of success, results may vary and it doesn't prove/disprove a strategy. That's a phallacy/outcome bias.

    Like previous game having a mafia bus an ally doesn't mean you should throw out vote record analysis even though it really changed the outcome of such strategy. And also why you don't rely on any one thing but it was still the correct play to go by with what village had at the time.

    I'm not really sure what you are trying to argue, I think.

    That it's incorrect to point at being wrong and invalidating your methodology? What else is there to your original sentence? Was there a point being made?

    Having a methodology that sometimes nails mafia is the core strategy to mafia/werewolf.

    It seemed like you were taking my opinion that I felt like the mechanics of the game were not conducive to finding mafia, and going "well, you found mafia without mechanics just by interpreting events, so that doesn't really matter!" And you will find mafia by just randomly guessing, eventually, so that isn't actually a very valid retort. So technically that's a methodology that sometimes nails mafia, but I wouldn't call relying on that to be a good strategy/design :P

    I guess my point is that there's this whole set of mechanics that are in this game, and they mattered for the win condition, but the input/output/side effects of the mechanics didn't provide actionable information for the village. Usually you can use the mechanics in a phalla game to try and find people you suspect or trust more. Here, it seemed less the case to me. Maybe I just wasn't understanding the implications properly, but that's my feedback so nyehhhh :P

    To be clear, it was still really fun. Just something I noticed later on, that it turned out I wasn't able to use the racing to really help find mafia.

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