As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

[New World] Where we ask the REAL questions! Like, "What is Launch?"

13468924

Posts

  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    What I really want is a real sci-fi mmo. Not a fantasy sci-fi with swords in space.

    Star Citizen is only about 17 years away. Preorder now!

  • WhelkWhelk Registered User regular
    edited August 2021
    I can agree with that. I'd like a cyber punk MMO/MMO-like experience, to be honest. I could settle for space opera.

    On topic: I played this at a friend's house the other day, and I really can't quite get what itch this is supposed to scratch. It all seems to have gelled into something very pretty but mediocre. Edit to clarify, I'm really not offended by any of it, but there's nothing that made me want to come back for more.

    Whelk on
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    i would like any normal functional mmorpg experience regardless of setting that hasn't been compromised by a decade of bad design choices and organizational rot

    literally anything at all. please. ill pay extra!

  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    Whelk wrote: »
    Wildstar was taken from us too soon.

    -Whelk's epitaph

    Yeah, that's one I miss. They lived and died by the "screw casuals, we're making proper poopsocking raids!" sword.

  • QanamilQanamil x Registered User regular
    Echo wrote: »
    Whelk wrote: »
    Wildstar was taken from us too soon.

    -Whelk's epitaph

    Yeah, that's one I miss. They lived and died by the "screw casuals, we're making proper poopsocking raids!" sword.

    Man, still think about hanging out with everybody and checking out player houses.

  • StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    admanb wrote: »
    Well... no one stayed in those games after WoW came out.
    WoW originally felt closer / an evolution of a World before it degenerated into todays theme park, though. It was also way more "modern" than UO / etc. UO was pretty old / jank graphics and system wise by the time WoW came out and also made some pretty big mistakes in its expansions.
    WoW is what coined “theme park MMO” and it was like that since day one. All the really interesting stuff was inside dungeons, much like rides in a theme park, and thus the name.

    YL9WnCY.png
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Sterica wrote: »
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    admanb wrote: »
    Well... no one stayed in those games after WoW came out.
    WoW originally felt closer / an evolution of a World before it degenerated into todays theme park, though. It was also way more "modern" than UO / etc. UO was pretty old / jank graphics and system wise by the time WoW came out and also made some pretty big mistakes in its expansions.
    WoW is what coined “theme park MMO” and it was like that since day one. All the really interesting stuff was inside dungeons, much like rides in a theme park, and thus the name.

    I mean the big change even when classsic was release was letting people solo more than previous mmos, and a kindler gentler more casual experience.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    Sterica wrote: »
    WoW is what coined “theme park MMO” and it was like that since day one. All the really interesting stuff was inside dungeons, much like rides in a theme park, and thus the name.
    It wasn't, actually, especially on PvP servers. It did coin the term theme park MMO, but that came later. In original WoW, we actually did battle over the Blackrock Spire entrance (multiple raid groups did battle trying to blockade the other side) and rumbled for Dire Maul. There were definite go or no go zones based on Alliance or Horde (Alliance held Stranglethorn Vale pretty well on my server, for instance). The plaguelands were a see-sawing battle that was great.

    Azuregos was an epic cluster of not only Horde versus Alliance, but Horde versus Horde and Alliance versus Alliance.

    We even dressed up as pirates once and seized the ship in....that damn Alliance city in the swamp....which was an actual issue for Alliance since it's not like people could fly.

    Did it have signs / was going towards that from Day One? Absolutely. Looking back, you could see the signs easily and it progressed quickly....but it didn't feel like that on Day One.

    XBL: Bizazedo
    PSN: Bizazedo
    CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
  • NosfNosf Registered User regular
    edited August 2021
    Wildstar was a weird little game; they took all the lessons that WoW learned publicly and then said all of that was wrong, now do this enormous attunement quest so you can raid, which was a whole lotta staring at the ground for red squares not to stand in. Meanwhile, WoW turned around and said if you wanna raid, just ride over to this green door and go inside and holy shit, we're up to how many subs now?

    Nosf on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Lots of hardcore fans try and forum people convince developers the real money is in making MMO's less covenient and more time consuming. Witness the resurgence of WoW Classic.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • NosfNosf Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Sterica wrote: »
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    admanb wrote: »
    Well... no one stayed in those games after WoW came out.
    WoW originally felt closer / an evolution of a World before it degenerated into todays theme park, though. It was also way more "modern" than UO / etc. UO was pretty old / jank graphics and system wise by the time WoW came out and also made some pretty big mistakes in its expansions.
    WoW is what coined “theme park MMO” and it was like that since day one. All the really interesting stuff was inside dungeons, much like rides in a theme park, and thus the name.

    I mean the big change even when classsic was release was letting people solo more than previous mmos, and a kindler gentler more casual experience.

    Coming from EQ, WoW retail and even alpha / beta was this bizarre revelation - bandages and food made soloing (which all classes could do to some extent) ... easy? Absolutely there were some stupid things like 5 minute paladin buffs, regents, hunter ammo - but even these things got fixed slowly over time. You could craft gear that wasn't totally useless; in some cases your best gear was crafted.

    Quests were everywhere and worked; it wasn't some weird kludge where you'd hand 40 hours of work to an NPC and they'd eat it. I still remember doing the Onyxia lair attunement and when it came time to escort the Marshall up to the throne, we had a huge throng of players following us and everyone flipped out when Onyxia was revealed.

  • SpaffySpaffy Fuck the Zero Registered User regular
    edited September 2021
    Sterica wrote: »
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    admanb wrote: »
    Well... no one stayed in those games after WoW came out.
    WoW originally felt closer / an evolution of a World before it degenerated into todays theme park, though. It was also way more "modern" than UO / etc. UO was pretty old / jank graphics and system wise by the time WoW came out and also made some pretty big mistakes in its expansions.
    WoW is what coined “theme park MMO” and it was like that since day one. All the really interesting stuff was inside dungeons, much like rides in a theme park, and thus the name.

    "Theme Park MMO" means that the levelling path is mostly linear, you are led by the nose by level-appropriate quests to hubs of activity in a perfectly sculpted and interesting area that is completable solo, that you are appropriately levelled for, with what to do clearly signposted, which you complete, and then you move to the next hub. The chances of wandering into an area where you are insta-gibbed by enemies you are underlevelled for is appropriately zero, as is the chance of not knowing exactly what to do next.

    It has nothing to do with dungeons specifically, those were in EQ, Asheron's Call and DAoC and those were not considered 'theme parks'.

    Spaffy on
    ALRIGHT FINE I GOT AN AVATAR
    Steam: adamjnet
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    I don't think that there's a universally agreed on full definition for theme park MMO other than that it seems to be the contrast to a sandbox MMO. Details can be debated back and forth, but most mainstream MMOs nowadays are somewhere in theme park category.

    I generally view the main distinction as being whether you're expected to figure out what to do and make your own fun, or if the game is set up such that you are presented with a wide variety of fun options/rides on all sides and just choosing from those. WoW's dungeons are on the theme park side because they're very linearly designed rides. You go in, you kill things in order and solve the puzzles in order, you get your reward and the ride is over. Contrasted against older MMO "dungeons" where you went in, did grinding, and there wasn't a clear ride with a start and finish.

    I think largely the market recognizes that unless the content is player to player sandboxing, theme parks are necessary to keep people entertained.

    What is this I don't even.
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    I've long been a themepark MMO player. WoW, SWTOR, FFXIV have been the 3 big ones I've stuck with for many years. But lately I've started to see much higher appeal in sandbox games. Conan, Valheim, Star Citizen, No Man's Sky, all of those have raptly held my attention for many hours of gameplay and I would say the draw of the sandbox is much stronger now, for me personally, than in having my hand held in a theme park experience.

    New World appears to be a bit of a hybrid. The original design was clearly a PVP sandbox, where they give you the systems to make your own fun, but it's up to the community to engage with those systems. But they also seem to have backpedaled a bit and tried to add a bit more linearity and theme park-iness over the last year or so. We'll see if it can maintain any lasting appeal, being somewhat of a fence sitter in this regard. Trying to straddle the line between both options.

  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    I'm not convinced there's a compelling reason to play a sandbox MMO aside from PvP systems, because all the sandbox games you described are defined by an effectively infinite world or universe to explore and alter, which is a model that no one has figured out (or is simply impossible) in an MMO. Without exploration and a world that builds up or collapses in response to your actions, your "sandbox" has to be defined by conflict. One group builds so another group has something to destroy, and so on.

    And people have been making that game since before WoW launched. And every one of them fails because after a month or two of fun there's no reason to keep playing.

  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    I think that argument might ultimately be against MMO's in general tbh.

    What is this I don't even.
  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    I think that argument might ultimately be against MMO's in general tbh.

    except WoW, FFXIV, TESO, and arguably a few more have all proved you can provide enough themepark content to keep people playing (and, more importantly, subscribed) long enough to fund continuous development

  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Fair. But I agree with Lucascraft that the overall market is moving to sandboxes over theme parks again. And if it's not possible to have a sandbox MMO then MMOs may be on the decline.

    What is this I don't even.
  • admanbadmanb unionize your workplace Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Fair. But I agree with Lucascraft that the overall market is moving to sandboxes over theme parks again. And if it's not possible to have a sandbox MMO then MMOs may be on the decline.

    That's what I was thinking 5-6 years ago when games like ARK started getting big. But it didn't happen. If anything, FFXIV has shown the biggest growth MMOs have had since WoW came out. Now, that doesn't mean the market overall is growing, but it means it's still there. And it's still there for a game that is the Platonic Ideal of the themepark MMO. And while I may not think that New World is going to work out, the fact that Amazon did isn't irrelevant.

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    The first 3-6 months of New World will be very informative for Amazon. The most important thing they'll get from that first timeframe will be tons of data and analytics.

    They'll be able to see which systems people are engaging with, which systems see a severe drop-off in use over time, and just in general how people prefer to spend their time in the game. And those analytics will shape the future of the game.

    I think right now Amazon doesn't really even know what the future looks like for this game, long term. They've got some ideas for a bit of near-term growth. A few new areas, items, maybe a dungeon or two more, stuff like that. But this game past the first year is a giant question mark. For everybody. Only by harvesting a ton of data will they really know if their PVP modes are sustainable or not. They'll know what direction they need to steer the game, based on participation metrics in PVP, PVE, questing, crafting, happy home building, etc.

  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    I'm really just buying the game for $40 expecting to get a month of gameplay out of it. I don't think I'll ever enjoy an MMO again for more than a month or two at a time, but it's usually fun to explore a new system.

    What is this I don't even.
  • StupidStupid Newcastle, NSWRegistered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    The first 3-6 months of New World will be very informative for Amazon. The most important thing they'll get from that first timeframe will be tons of data and analytics.

    They'll be able to see which systems people are engaging with, which systems see a severe drop-off in use over time, and just in general how people prefer to spend their time in the game. And those analytics will shape the future of the game.

    I think right now Amazon doesn't really even know what the future looks like for this game, long term. They've got some ideas for a bit of near-term growth. A few new areas, items, maybe a dungeon or two more, stuff like that. But this game past the first year is a giant question mark. For everybody. Only by harvesting a ton of data will they really know if their PVP modes are sustainable or not. They'll know what direction they need to steer the game, based on participation metrics in PVP, PVE, questing, crafting, happy home building, etc.
    And that's a Really Big Problem (tm)!

    When you set out to design something you need some kind of criteria to design to. When a client asks me to design a power system for them, I need to know what the intended use is. I mean, sure, whether it's a clothing store, or a cannabis refining facility, or a hospital or a multi-storie apartment house, or whatever... yes, those all use the same electricity and it all comes from "the grid", but I can't just design a generic power system and figure out the details later. I mean, not realistically. A high voltage supply isn't going to work for a little 30 square meter dress shoppe; a single-phase service won't work for an arc furnace. I could design it to be flexible, but there's only so much "give" in a system. You HAVE to know what you're targeting before you start or it will take way too long and cost way too much money to get it done.

    If they are honestly going to try to test market to see what kind of game the players actually want, then it will be gone in six months.


    26904.png
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Yeah, I mean I'm just basing my take on the buzz I saw coming out of the alpha in August. But this game is largely supposed to be a faction based PVP game, but barely anybody was talking about the PVP. Everyone was talking about all of the other aspects of the game and how great it all is. But really, the only feedback anyone gave on the organized PVP stuff is "it was a clusterfuck" and "I hope they fix this before launch."

    Like, for a game that's largely hanging its hat on PVP, the community was buzzing about everything but the PVP. Talking about how great it is to have crafted items that matter. Talking about how fun it was to just go out and gather. How great fishing was. How fun the dungeons were and hoping they add more, and add bigger ones. Talking about class builds, but in a PVE context. But I didn't really see a lot of discussion about the organized PVP.

  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    I must've been playing the wrong version of the game, because the PvE experience was terrible, as I mentioned in an earlier post.

    Where is all this positive buzz?

    Even this thread has more positive nostalgia about Star Wars Galaxies then about New World.

  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    The open beta is available for install now. I'm working and can't check whether you can actually play, but now is the time for everyone to give it a spin this weekend if you haven't so we can have a more informed discussion.

    What is this I don't even.
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    @Axen would you mind making the thread title reference open beta is now through Sunday, please?

    What is this I don't even.
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    did the open beta just start today?

    i'm in agreement that there really doesn't seem to be a lot of hype for this game, and what little there is is 100% amazon buying off streamers

    honestly nobody even knows what this game is or is trying to be, including in this thread. we're basically just guessing lol. you can hardly even find concise youtube content on it, which seems oddly rare for a somewhat anticipated MMO with a lot of beta exposure

    the mystery is part of, perhaps the only reason why I am going to give it a shot

  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    There were other betas but this is the open beta you can just get in without needing a key or prepurchase or anything.

    What is this I don't even.
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Doofy comment, but I'm really astounded there's not a Twitch drops reward campaign going for the New World beta.

    What's the point of being an Amazonian megalith if you don't use all your different properties to market yourself?

    What is this I don't even.
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    My open beta client is installing right now. I will report back in the next 20-30 minutes with details about server availability etc.

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Servers are up. Same few from before are already listed as "high" pop and have restrictions on number of characters, plus already a few minutes long queue.

    Since this is just a 4 day beta, I made a not super serious character. His name is "El Franklin" and he's got some badass mutton chops.

  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    Just tried this.

    This game desperately needs controller support.

  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    I got like half an hour in so far, so not much, but I really like the core stuff so far. The combat feels great. I also am a huge fan of harvesting everything and crafting all the time, so way up my alley there.

    What is this I don't even.
  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    Overall the game seems decent enough that I'll probably pick it up. Unfortunately my computer can't really go any further than high settings on 1080p. If I try to do very high on 1080, or high on 1440, the framerate goes down to like 20-25ish. Too bad. I really need a good video card but they are so expensive. Wish this had a console version.

  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Hmm. PvP definitely doesn't make a ton of sense in the whole "if they're 5 levels above you, get fucked" sense.

    What is this I don't even.
  • Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    My big issue with combat so far are 1. That enemies don't get staggered or similar by attacks feels counterintuitive for the combat style, maybe I'm too used to soulslikes but in an action combat system, it feels like putting a sword forcefully through a wolf's face should maybe interrupt or forestall it's attack and 2. Maybe it's my connection, but I feel like there isn't really enough of a visual way to tell when your enemy is going to attack to make dodging and reacting feel quite natural.

    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
  • akjakakjak Thera Spooky GymRegistered User regular
    Is there going to be an Arcadian guild clan thingie for this? We've played a few hours of the beta, and it seems like you'll really need a bunch of friends (or join a big uber-guild).

    The combat hasn't felt... great to me. I can't seem to ever dodge or block properly, and anything but slapping things with a sword doesn't feel like it impacts (even when it does).

    Switch: SW-4133-1546-2720 (Thera)
    Twitch: akThera
    Steam: Thera
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    I don't think enough PA folks are going to play to make a group out of, and even if we had them at launch I suspect the attrition rate on this game is gonna be enormous.

    It's a neat game. I still might pick it up out of curiosity. But all the flaws people say are there are definitely there. It feels like Amazon did a survey of top ten things people like in MMO's, then made an MMO with just those things but no real game design behind it. It has some of the big shinies, but none of the logical game design or eccentricities most individual games have. It's weird.

    I really like crafting and the quests are fun, but I have serious doubts anyone but the dedicated few will be playing this a month after launch.

    What is this I don't even.
  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    Ok, I've played a bit of the open beta and like it quite a bit. I want to address one of the concerns I have seen so far: Only 3 active skills.

    This is true, but there are two things that interplay with this:

    Each weapon can only have 3 active skills, but it has two skill trees with 3 skills each. You do not have to stick to just one tree. You can mix and match abilities between trees (although you can still only have 3 skills).

    More importantly, you have two weapons equipped at once. You can and should be using both. You can switch weapons mid combat using 1 and 2, and the cooldowns are weapon specific. This means you really have 6 skills equipped and not 3.

    My current build involves using a rapier and a fire staff. The fire staff has an ability designed as an opener that does extra damage to full health targets, it also has a fireball spell that sets the ground on fire and does a ticking aoe DOT. I open with the fires staff opener and blow the target up with the fireball as they close, switch to my rapier and then fight them in melee on top of the burning ground. The rapier has a skill that adds a stacking bleed, so I open with that and then poke a bunch. I switch back to the fire staff once its abilities are off cooldown, and then I rinse and repeat. The cooldowns aren't terribly long either (the bleed from my rapier has an 11 second cool-down that can be reduced further with skills). I primarily only fight using skills with very few basic attacks, and I have basically zero down time with this build. I am sure there is potentially more down time with other builds, but I doubt it will be a significant amount of your combat time if you are leveraging both weapons.

    One place where this system needs work is that it needs more weapon types. Not because there isn't enough variety in the types of weapons, but because it needs more variety in stat utilization. My above build works well because rapiers have 'secondary' scaling off of intellect, which is the primary scaling for fire staff; the weapons have good stat synergy. The place where they need work is in the focus stat specifically. As far as I can tell, healing staves are the only weapon that uses focus, and it uses focus exclusively. They need better hybrid options leveraging focus to make healing staves more attractive.

  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Can you respec stats easily? I'm not really sure I like the stats tied to weapons because it seems like an artificial barrier to "just trying this cool weapon out."

    What is this I don't even.
Sign In or Register to comment.