They're releasing the roadmap through the end of the year on the 8th, so there's that. They're also posting a "state of the game" blog on the same day to discuss year 1 and future plans. I'm a bit curious what that's going to look like. I'd love to see them keep adding stuff to the game, but I also wouldn't be super surprised if they used it to announce that content will be slowing/stopping after the end of the year.
I guess I'm not quite getting Black Panther, at least not in the context of completing the daily/weekly challenge tasks which seem to be centered around the intrinsic abilities the majority of the time.
-The only way I can get BP's meter to fill is if I block melee attacks, right? I can't block ranged attacks, correct?
-but so many times, they throw only ranged enemies at me, or even if they do throw melee attackers at me, the AI companions usually can take them out before I can really gain any headway.
-even if I can get the intrinsic meter filled to trigger a pulse, so many of the tasks want you to take out multiple enemies in one shot. Which again, my AI companions usually take out enough enemies to render this moot.
what am I not getting or is it not just me and they ramped up the difficulty of the challenge tasks. I just read that one of BP's skills allows BP's own melee attacks to fill the meter and to use the other skill where takedowns spawn intrinsic orbs...so okay, I'm just not far enough in the skill tree yet.
I guess I'm not quite getting Black Panther, at least not in the context of completing the daily/weekly challenge tasks which seem to be centered around the intrinsic abilities the majority of the time.
-The only way I can get BP's meter to fill is if I block melee attacks, right? I can't block ranged attacks, correct?
-but so many times, they throw only ranged enemies at me, or even if they do throw melee attackers at me, the AI companions usually can take them out before I can really gain any headway.
-even if I can get the intrinsic meter filled to trigger a pulse, so many of the tasks want you to take out multiple enemies in one shot. Which again, my AI companions usually take out enough enemies to render this moot.
what am I not getting or is it not just me and they ramped up the difficulty of the challenge tasks. I just read that one of BP's skills allows BP's own melee attacks to fill the meter and to use the other skill where takedowns spawn intrinsic orbs...so okay, I'm just not far enough in the skill tree yet.
You can parry certain ranged attacks, for instance you can parry the turret lasers over and over again as a cheap way to pump up intrinsic energy (though be careful as you spend a small amount as you flick it on.) Also just in case, much like hulk you can parry mid combo with BP's intrinsic.
The enemies introduced in the expansion have some really annoying uncounterable attacks. And yes, the AI companions will steal kills.
Also grabbing the skill in the passive tree that generates intrinsic energy on melee will help a lot.
Anyways, that $20 dollar price tag is great if anyone wants a fun if flawed singleplayer adventure. It's just, don't expect much (or anything) out of the gaas side of things yeah? Once the story (and I suppose the expansion stories as well) is over there's really not anything there. Seeing this thread pop up again reminds me i've been meaning to write my thoughts on the gaas stuff down, but procrastinator going to procrastinate. Especially when it's all so likely to be me dunking on the game ahah, games are hard and I prefer to be positive.
ugh. so yeah, I got the skill tree items that boost intrinsic meter and now that I know about turrets yeah, I'm filling my intrinsic meter way more often. But now the game just isn't giving me credit for when I trigger percussive blast and hit 3 or more enemies. Sometimes it does, but many times not. Also got the task where I'm supposed to use kimoyo beads to heal myself or allies. hold down l1 when I'm hurt, watch the kimoyo beads heal me. so many times it just doesn't give me credit.
EDIT: barely got enough of the kimoyo bead heals to finish the daily in time. the other one for hitting 3 or more enemies with a single intrinsic attack is a weekly so I've got some time on that. but yeah, multiple times I trigger it with 3 nearby and ill see 2 be affected by it, but not the 3rd for whatever reason. They were all on the ground too next to me, not flying if that matters. finally did get a credit for one recently but yeah I had what seemed like 9 enemies surrounding me that time.
ugh. so yeah, I got the skill tree items that boost intrinsic meter and now that I know about turrets yeah, I'm filling my intrinsic meter way more often. But now the game just isn't giving me credit for when I trigger percussive blast and hit 3 or more enemies. Sometimes it does, but many times not. Also got the task where I'm supposed to use kimoyo beads to heal myself or allies. hold down l1 when I'm hurt, watch the kimoyo beads heal me. so many times it just doesn't give me credit.
EDIT: barely got enough of the kimoyo bead heals to finish the daily in time. the other one for hitting 3 or more enemies with a single intrinsic attack is a weekly so I've got some time on that. but yeah, multiple times I trigger it with 3 nearby and ill see 2 be affected by it, but not the 3rd for whatever reason. They were all on the ground too next to me, not flying if that matters. finally did get a credit for one recently but yeah I had what seemed like 9 enemies surrounding me that time.
Yeah, to nobody's surprise, it does seem a little (very?) buggy at registering credit for BP’s objectives, which is kinda par for the course.
RE: the price thing - I wanna add an addendum to my post and say I forgot that $20 would be in USD, whereas I was thinking AUD (which would be more like 10usd, basically the price of a small indie game). I stand by my opinion (if the game was 10usd though) buuuut….
RE: The game not being worth playing even if it was free. Yes, 110%. If you’ve played for an hour and hated it, or even if you haven’t played it and don’t seem at all interested in playing the game for whatever your reasons may be, you are correct. The game is objectively bad and makes some really weird gameplay choices. I suppose my post was written for what I assumed were people checking out the thread looking for something to pass some time, but tbh I think it’s good to have had the counterpoint of “no this game is garbage”.
Hell I mean my post previous to the last one was basically me stating I was done with the game haha. I am still reeling from the new sonic enemies design - did they play test them to see if they were fun? That screen effect is awful. Just, aaaa why? It makes me want to wax poetic about what the game could have been, but that would be a huge waste of everyone's time.
I am now going to waste everyone's time by waxing poetic about what the game could have been, haha.
Spoiled for an obscenely long poorly written bunch of thoughts:
So I said previously I'd start with some positives - again I had fun with the singleplayer - the story, whilst pretty by the numbers, is generally well written and a fun introduction to my new favourite superhero: Kamala/Ms Marvel. Voice direction (aside from Iron man) is good and while the combat is pretty sloppy and repetitive, I'll be damned if kicking some mook downtown as an embiggened Kamala ain’t fun.
Which speaks to what I feel is the biggest problem with the game - a misunderstanding of what it is people want from a superhero game.
I could go into the minutia of how I feel the gameplay could be fixed, but without the ability to playtest the ideas, it’d be pointless. Also I feel it’s important to mention just how awful the art direction is, why is this game about superheroes specifically not from the movies and more from the comics not cell shaded?
Instead of all that I wanna focus on the “Game As A Service” systems.Being a GAAS is what i feel is at the heart of what's wrong with this game and I am not talking about the microtransactions. The GAAS structure this game is aping in design is fundamentally opposed to the design of other good superhero games.
So let’s talk about the game's progression structure first - The game has two axis of power progression, levels and Power Level.
Levels is an easy example of the shortcomings in this game, especially with the recent release of BP who suffers from their design choices more noticeably, the skill trees are designed not to provide new skills and abilities, but instead feel like you are unlocking basic functionality. The first skill tree page just has everyone unlocking fundamental combos and it shows. Iron Man at level 1 is the clunkiest character, compared to Iron man at around level 25 when you’ve unlocked all the basic skills.Their skill trees scream of padding, what with all the 5% increases, in all honesty 90% of the skills should be inherent, which would make playing a new hero feel so much better. .
Worse then all that is the gear.
Power Level grinds are horrible enough with one character. Without any cosmetics to provide something that feels like a reward, the skinner box design of the PL treadmill is more readily apparent than in other games. Even worse it has you jumping into a clunky menu to change your gear all the time making each mission end a chore of cleaning out your inventory and putting on new boring gear. So what's the fix? Remove it all.
Seriously, reduce the skill trees to like, maybe 5 or so skills per character that provide different heroics or maybe add some different modifiers to attacks (i.e pym particles, gamma, ext) and that’s all you need. Nobody plays a superhero game to feel weak, and nobody given a roster of different characters wants to do the same missions over and over again just to get the opportunity for some different gameplay.
In all honesty if you were to remove all gear and leveling from the game it would go from a 5/10 to a 6 instantly. It’s just such a poor choice for a game about superheroes. Seriously if you must have a number go up mechanic, make it a global thing - i.e upgrading the helicarrier or something.
Speaking of structure, that is the next issue - again, the game cribbed notes off the biggest GAAS around with no thought to modifying it to suit a superhero game.
Let’s call a spade a spade, the war table attempts to ape destiny’s mission structure, but it fails on so many fundamental levels to understand what made destiny's structure compelling for people to play through. And even if it did, destiny’s structure is a horrible pick for a superhero beat-em-up to base its mission design on.
Each mission outside the campaign follows the same basic structure, you go to some poorly designed hub world, with the same optional objectives you can go do, then you end up in the same AIM map and fight one of 5 or so challenges and you’re done. It’s awful.
Firstly no-one plays these games to fight the same generic mooks over and over, we’re here for the show stoppers - where’s the villain fight at the end of each mission? Also it’s not going to feel like a globe-trotting adventure if you don’t make the areas I'm going to interesting or memorable, and worse still a chore to move through.
The mission table sucks and is clunky, causing you to spend more time in a menu then smashing faces. The solution? Draw inspiration from other superhero games and one of the other better GAAS games to come out, The Division 2, with a map (or two) you stay on, that you fight to clean up, that eventually resets after rewarding you.
Setting the game on a single map means more focus can be spent on making traversal fun, and opportunities to provide interesting randomized moment to moment encounters. Players will hopefully feel more invested in the world when they aren't going from menu to menu and even better, we can take inspiration from saturday morning cartoons to plan out the day to day, week to week and month to month experience of playing the game. It’s crazy to me that there is only one villain group through the campaign (2 if you count the watchdogs, which I don’t) I was so sure hydra would pop up or whatever.
I’m going to spoil this as well as this is completely just me going off on a tangent haha.
We have a singular map, with the S.H.I.E.L.D helicarrier in the middle. The city is divided into zones, each one starting with a major villain group in control.
Each zone will have someone in control, I.E Hydra, A.I.M, Ultron, ext. Providing unique cosmetic changes to the zone they control (like hydra banners on buildings, A.I.M. hives ext) Each group has a handful of unique basic henchmen to fight that spawn there, but the zone will have a number of B-List villains with attached objectives to go after. Similar to the vibe of the recent Spiderman Games you’d have random events show up, often themed to the villain in control (such as aim rounding up inhumans, hydra making prison camps, ext). Alongside these small focused missions placed around the map that make the lieutenants vulnerable, with the goal of the player fighting a lieutenant villain every 30 mins / hour
To keep it spicy you would want each to have some unique meta mechanic - say for instance the wrecking crew might have missions to isolate the members giving you a choice to take them on all at once in a real hard fight, or one by one more easily, or crossbones may have weapon stockpiles you can take out to weaken them in your upcoming fight.
Do enough good deeds in the area, take out a lieutenant or two and the Boss of the section of the map becomes vulnerable, we’re talking a fight with Zola, Yellowjacket, Killmonger, ext. These are the big fights that have interesting mechanics, probably akin to a small dungeon. You’d want the team for this, but I'd want to ensure that all this stuff was soloable. Taking out one of these guys gives you a reward, but also removes their influence, and the area goes to a neutral state - (civilians cheer you, and just basic bad guys may spawn in the area) but you get that feeling of progress. In general I'd say you want the player reaching this point every 2 or so hours.
Take out everyone and the final Mastermind emerges - i.e. Red Skull, Loki, Ultron, Scientist Supreme, ext. This is the show stopper fight. The avengers level threat. Tables get turned, the city gets put under siege. This is where you add some globe trotting, i.e fighting loki in asgard or Red Skull in a castle somewhere. This would be on the level of a bigger dungeon and each should feel real different. Take this guy out and you get a big reward, and some time to bask in your glory, until you either log out, or go to the helicarrier and progress time, randomizing the group in control and resetting the state of the city back to under siege. Ideally this would happen 1-2ish times a week depending on how often you play.
From there, I'd have a 1-3 monthly threat, we’re talking Thanos, Dormammu, that provides a universe destroying objective that adds some extra little spins into each session while they are active (I.e finding and protecting infinity stones, ext). These would be where the raids live.
In practice, you’re still doing the same things - but the game feels different. I think it would actually feel like you're making progress against these threats, but like a saturday morning cartoon, there’s always another evil plot to thwart. Better still structuring it this way means the dev team can plug in new villains at each tier, slowly growing the variety of encounters over the games lifespan.
Unfortunately, while I feel that does potentially push the game into a more interesting and thematic metagame pattern, there’s still a big problem, namely the game feel of the heroes.
Good superhero games (I’m talking Arkham, the good Spidermans, ext) understand something - movement and a feeling of power. Each of those games has you dealing with a similar amount of low tier bad guys, but often the question isn’t “can we survive” but rather “How efficiently can we demolish these 20+ bad dudes.” And sure, you’ll mess up and die - but the problem with Avengers is that when you mess up it never feels fair, it’s always a rocket from outside your screen or an attack you ate due to animation priority.
Alongside that it’s a joy to move around these gameplay spaces - Avengers just pales in comparison, which is such a shame. Again basing things on a singular interesting map could’ve helped the team make movement more interesting and fun, but we’ll never know.
There’s a bunch more on the gameplay front I could talk about, especially in regards to how co-op gameplay should have worked in this game, so much so that I could make one of those youtube essays that go way too long about it easily, but i’ll leave it there.
Here’s the TL:DR - Avengers, shows (or re-illustrates) that the GAAS format is not one size fits all. Ignoring the source material to make a power treadmill does not fit the genre, and attempting to ape the campaign structure of a fundamentally different game serves to make the game generic and boring.
At this point, there’s two outcomes for the game, either they re-vamp it somehow, or it’s going to shut down. I’m not holding my breath for anything other than the shut-down.
Bleh that's so negative, anyways there’s some fun to be had here in the meantime (Depending on your standards haha). I got my eyes on another project in the meantime.
The newest roadmap for this game is particularly sad (but it seems they soft confirmed a 2022 roadmap). The community was particularly incensed because they out Spidey on the map and he's the only significant thing on there. The audacity of putting paid skins as a thing to look forward to is pretty funny too
The Klaw raid sounds like a substantial bit of content. However, it also sounds like content that was cut from the Wakanda patch due to time and resource issues.
But yah. That's a pretty bleak roadmap.
0
ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
edited September 2021
@Hullabaloo I am confused as to why you consider the leveling of characters and their abilities to be related to GaaS. Those features are at least as old as Diablo and were prominent in the Ultimate Alliance series so I don't understand why you consider them fundamentally incompatible with the super hero genre either. Granted the UAs weren't perfect, but they were well received and I found them personally enjoyable.
I haven't played this game and don't plan to given the reception, but I wonder if its failures are more related to execution than bad fundamentals.
Fundamentally, the game is trying to being 3 things at once: a fun brawler game with combos, a co-op instanced game, and the RPG layer of gear lifted from from Destiny (and diablo). They don't work together for a variety of reasons. It's fine for like, Thor but quickly falls apart when playing more nuanced characters like Hulk, Iron Man and Black Panther which don't all neatly fit within the setup they've made. It's hard to make a good super hero game. Look how many Spidey games we have and how few are considered "classics." It's because making a good action game about a single hero is super hard, and yet still way easier than making one about 10+ heroes. The combat in MUA is super simple compared to a combat heavy game like this.
So you have the combat which should be fun, but feels janky and clumsy because of the co-op netcode, you have a game not many people actually wanna play together so co-op is kinda pointless anyways, and the RPG loot and gear system isn't satisfying because it means a lot of grinding to make the heroes feel like, well, heroes. (And cosmetics are all money based so unless you drop some dough your guys look like everyone else).
They needed to divide characters along "class" lines and hone in on a few play styles that worked well for them. As is they just have so many characters and only a few feel good or satisfying to play. And if they had just made the same game but single player first, atleast you'd have a decent combat system to fiddle with without the fidgety nature of it being always online lobbies and such.
I actually think they need to abandon the cash shop approach and actually charge for DLC like destiny does, because skins cannot be paying the bills for this game
@Hullabaloo I am confused as to why you consider the leveling of characters and their abilities to be related to GaaS. Those features are at least as old as Diablo and were prominent in the Ultimate Alliance series so I don't understand why you consider them fundamentally incompatible with the superhero genre either. Granted the UAs weren't perfect, but they were well received and I found them personally enjoyable.
I haven't played this game and don't plan to given the reception, but I wonder if its failures are more related to execution than bad fundamentals.
I made some, uh, bold claims there huh? I'll try to defend my position but I will concede I have overreached with some opinions.
I do wanna directly quote myself here: "The GAAS structure this game is aping in design is fundamentally opposed to the design of other good superhero games." I actually don't think levels and gear taken by itself are a problem, Nor do I think GAAS and SuperHero games cannot mix, (for example I designed a gaas based metagame for superheros in that post). It's more that I feel the devs have taken Destiny's GAAS format and systems with little thought to how that affects the superhero fantasy, or the overall player experience. Could it work with perfect execution? Maybe... but I don't think you'd ever get all the parts working perfectly with this many systems involved.
I think H Jay hit the point I'm trying to make here better than me though, haha.
I suspect the roadmap is pretty thin because right now all the heavy lifting is going to Spider-Man, and either they don't want to (further) piss people off by announcing the Sony-exclusive stuff before they have to, or part of the conditions of the moneyhat is to do a big Spidey-ganza announcement.
Plus I'm guessing as part of the Sony deal they can't scale back the Spider-Man content they initially signed on for.
Not sure which is worse for the health of the remaining playerbase, that they are investing heavily in content for just one platform, or that they just plain aren't investing...
Finally fired up this thing. And I'm sure there's lots of problems -- I'm already spotting a few.
This may be overly cheesy, but seeing non-white, non-male Kamela Kahn get to geek out and be validated for it is doing this aging nerd's heart some good.
I suspect the roadmap is pretty thin because right now all the heavy lifting is going to Spider-Man, and either they don't want to (further) piss people off by announcing the Sony-exclusive stuff before they have to, or part of the conditions of the moneyhat is to do a big Spidey-ganza announcement.
Plus I'm guessing as part of the Sony deal they can't scale back the Spider-Man content they initially signed on for.
And after all that when it’s released, I’d guarantee the best Spider-Man experience would just be to play Insomniacs games.
Finally fired up this thing. And I'm sure there's lots of problems -- I'm already spotting a few.
This may be overly cheesy, but seeing non-white, non-male Kamela Kahn get to geek out and be validated for it is doing this aging nerd's heart some good.
Got into this up to the Abomination fight. Lots of ups and downs -- very pretty, traversal through the environment is a bit of a pain, combat is okay, satisfying amount of Hulk stuff to smash, good character moments, cruddy world-building (how the hell did AIM get license to essentially turn the US into a police state?).
But holy crap, that UI is a mess. I'm having a hard time telling what is where. And what the hell are stats like valor? How can I easily see how many resources I have before I upgrade anything? And don't get me started on the store. While unlocking cool suits in Spider-Man was a joy, in Avengers there are like 47 different varients of Ms Marvel that look exactly the same with slightly different red and blue tints. Just, ugh.
Kinda losing motivation. How much longer is this thing? The single-player, I mean. Does the main bad guy turn over-the-top mustache-twirling evil when he goes full MODOK, or is he just a generic bad guy with a big head?
Got to the string of missions where various random SHIELD mooks try to guilt you into buying random shit/grinding for factions.
But for me, what was more offensive is the subsequent egregious misuse of "touché." THAT TERM IS TO ACKNOWLEDGE A SKILLED PHYSICAL OR PSYCHOLOGICAL HIT NOT TO PASSIVELY ACCEPT A COMPLIMENT THEY SPENT HOW MANY GAZILLION DOLLARS ON THIS AND NOT ONE PERSON NOTICED THAT WHAT THE FUCK
If you unlocked rep grinds at Hank Pym’s lab, you’re maybe 60% or so.
It’s also hard to say because the pace of the game increases pretty dramatically and the latter parts of the story feel like a sprint to the finish line. It felt to me as if they ran out of time and had to slap the back half of the game together in a hurry. The story all but disappears at some point.
If you unlocked rep grinds at Hank Pym’s lab, you’re maybe 60% or so.
It’s also hard to say because the pace of the game increases pretty dramatically and the latter parts of the story feel like a sprint to the finish line. It felt to me as if they ran out of time and had to slap the back half of the game together in a hurry. The story all but disappears at some point.
Seriously? Blagh. The story's the main reason I'm sticking with this. Then again K-Mart brand Iron Man is testing my patience.
From a development standpoint, this game is fascinating. I mean, you can absolutely see the money behind this in the pretty environments and the absolutely lavish animations, especially in the extended cutscenes. I mean, seeing Kamala excitedly fidget is just loaded with personality. And they bothered to design a hilariously basic Iron Man armor and then an actually armor that's kind of shitty before you get to the red and gold in the story. But then all the nagging to grind for new bones for Hulk's wrists or some crap creeps in and they expect you to get excited for 47,000 new costumes for a newish character that's only ever worn one damn costume.
If you unlocked rep grinds at Hank Pym’s lab, you’re maybe 60% or so.
It’s also hard to say because the pace of the game increases pretty dramatically and the latter parts of the story feel like a sprint to the finish line. It felt to me as if they ran out of time and had to slap the back half of the game together in a hurry. The story all but disappears at some point.
Seriously? Blagh. The story's the main reason I'm sticking with this. Then again K-Mart brand Iron Man is testing my patience.
From a development standpoint, this game is fascinating. I mean, you can absolutely see the money behind this in the pretty environments and the absolutely lavish animations, especially in the extended cutscenes. I mean, seeing Kamala excitedly fidget is just loaded with personality. And they bothered to design a hilariously basic Iron Man armor and then an actually armor that's kind of shitty before you get to the red and gold in the story. But then all the nagging to grind for new bones for Hulk's wrists or some crap creeps in and they expect you to get excited for 47,000 new costumes for a newish character that's only ever worn one damn costume.
If you're talking about Kamala, she's had a second one already.
If you unlocked rep grinds at Hank Pym’s lab, you’re maybe 60% or so.
It’s also hard to say because the pace of the game increases pretty dramatically and the latter parts of the story feel like a sprint to the finish line. It felt to me as if they ran out of time and had to slap the back half of the game together in a hurry. The story all but disappears at some point.
Seriously? Blagh. The story's the main reason I'm sticking with this. Then again K-Mart brand Iron Man is testing my patience.
From a development standpoint, this game is fascinating. I mean, you can absolutely see the money behind this in the pretty environments and the absolutely lavish animations, especially in the extended cutscenes. I mean, seeing Kamala excitedly fidget is just loaded with personality. And they bothered to design a hilariously basic Iron Man armor and then an actually armor that's kind of shitty before you get to the red and gold in the story. But then all the nagging to grind for new bones for Hulk's wrists or some crap creeps in and they expect you to get excited for 47,000 new costumes for a newish character that's only ever worn one damn costume.
Well you have the base game's story, then the ~2.5 hour each stories for Kate and Clint, then the ~5 hour Wakanda story so there's more there certainly.
As an aside, if you're just trying to get through the stories you can and absolutely should completely ignore the terrible gearing system. After each mission just go in and hold the button down to equip the highest level item in each slot and carry on. Gear stats and perks are completely ignorable unless you plan to do the very high level content which requires a huge grind where being selective about gear still doesn't matter until you've hit max gear level (130). No joke they could cut that grind in half and it would still be too long and drawn out.
There's improvements to all that coming in the next couple months, but in typical CD fashion it feels like they don't quite understand the problem they're trying to solve so the solution sounds like it only partially helps, so eh.
sheesh. They didn't put that much effort into BP. I think this is at least the 3rd time I've had that particular challenge task (hit 3+ enemies with an intrinsic attack) and he hasn't been available for that long. Fortunately, I discovered that the very first fight in the BP Harm mission is with 3 enemies and they give you a full intrinsic meter right off the bat. So...lather rinse repeat.
Finally got BP to 50 last night. Getting pretty close to finishing his challenge card. After that, I just need to grind hives and shield strongboxes to get the last two trophies I need for Plat and I think I'm done with this game until Spiderman eventually drops...maybe. I've spent way too much time on this unfortunate game and I need to move on.
I think the bad news for fans of the Avengers game is that even if they continue to trickle out more C-Grade addons, it's never going to get better than this.
There won't be a complete loot 2.0 overhaul. There won't be a combat refactor to make the bad characters feel good to play, and to rebalance it so characters don't feel like shit until they are "complete." Those things won't be happening. Heck, we don't even know what else they even have planned. Probably nothing beyond what is announced and what they are contractually obligated to release i.e. Spider-Man. Very likely at this point 90% or more of the Crystal Dynamics team has moved on to another project and this game is being maintained by a skeleton crew until they end-of-life it.
For Marvel super hero fans, it's best to look to the future. Hopefully Eidos Montreal's GotG game is good, and hopefully Firaxis' Midnight Suns game is good. But I think the ship has sailed for CD's Avengers.
lol xbox/windows store versions won't even have crossplay with steam
With the player base the way it is that isn’t a huge loss
0
Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
So I'm getting rid of it. I tried to find the positives but couldn't. I can't even bring myself to finish the single player and I'm pretty sure I'm close to the end. The only positive is I am loving Kamala as a character, but it's not enough to play through the slog that is the single player campaign and the even worse slog that is the multiplayer stuff. So very sad.
So I'm getting rid of it. I tried to find the positives but couldn't. I can't even bring myself to finish the single player and I'm pretty sure I'm close to the end. The only positive is I am loving Kamala as a character, but it's not enough to play through the slog that is the single player campaign and the even worse slog that is the multiplayer stuff. So very sad.
The single player campaign is largely considered the "good" part
+2
daveNYCWhy universe hate Waspinator?Registered Userregular
Loaded this up on the game pass. Really didn't like being introduced to Kamala as a early-teen fanfic writer. The fact that she managed to grow on me for the short bit I played after the intro is a testament to the quality of the writing. The combat in the intro wasn't bad, strangely, Iron Man was the one guy who felt weird. Storywise things were not great, but there's been worse.
Tech wise though, the game is ass considering how long it's been out. There's one part in the helicarrier (real early on in the game) where there's the jumping puzzle in the hanger. My camera got locked on something and I couldn't turn off the lock... so I ended up having to make one of the jumps with the camera looking backwards. Goood times. And then there were the crashes to the desktop (or the XBone equivalent), four times it happened, and that's only by the third 'real' mission. Once it happened in Jersey City, once after the last cutscene where you get Banner on the team, then twice when fighting as Hulk near immediately after that. I'll just be playing along an then *poof*, home screen. I wasn't super duper impressed with Anthem's stability, but this might actually be unplayable considering that the game crapped out twice at about the same spot during the Hulk fight. Not that I'm going to spend more time testing that out. That final crash out occurred after maybe five minutes of playing, so I'm wondering if there's something specific in that fight that kills things.
Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
Finally got around to seriously playing this and finishing it this weekend on gamepass. Game is... yeah.
Writing is just whatever, it's exactly what you expect to get and most everything you expect to happen happens when you expect it? I guess the one boss sorta thing pops up and was kind of a surprise and was a pretty old school reference. I doubt the game survives long enough for that to pay off. I'd prefer it does, but I doubt it does.
Characters are a mixed bag. Cap has no personality whatsoever. Stark comes off as a bad off brand RDJR that's far too jokey. Banner is the best character in the game I'd say. Widow is pretty good, no bullshit get the job done. Kamala is where they spent all their time but I don't give a shit about fanboys or fangirls and her arc is just no surprises and so fucking by the numbers tropey who cares? Thor is present in the game, he's....MCU Thor light I suppose.
Gameplay is a mixed bag so far; Kamala and the Widow are both fun to play but Iron Man feels clunky as shit. You only get to play Thor what, 5 minutes in the entire campaign so it's hard to say. The campaign obnoxiously forces you play as certain characters at certain points, so even though you levelled Widow up, here, play as Cap who you never played and has no gear and no skills. Good luck! Hulk seems alright, but isn't my bag. Some of the ending is just..."we need a phase for this hero, add another boss phase" - for Widow's you can't even take damage from what I saw, I just flipped around holding down shoot. Hulk just fights some mooks.
Equipping gear has no visual effect on your character and that is pretty fucking lazy. If you want to be a live service game, you're going to have to do better than that. Cosmetic outfits range from ok to garbage - I get it, Kamala has only been around for a few years but it looks like 70% of her outfits (that they expect you pay for sorta) are just 'hey, this t-shirt is green instead of orange!'. It's like they looked at how bad Bungie fucked up Shaders moving to D2 and said, "Hold my beer." Iron Man has what, 70 years of outfits and it doesn't look like they bothered to get the geometry right for most of, if any of them. Thor? Same thing, so many Thor possiblities, but here's Thor in sweats or a T-shirt. Outfits are a one shot deal, it's your entire look. You can't even mix and match. Hi, it's 2021, that shit doesn't play anymore. As noted, there are no colour options.
I want to try some co-op with a friend, but this just shrieks two week shelf life. It's astounding to watch developers and publishers get handed these amazing money printing devices and then somehow they manage to get their hand sucked into it and mangled. Was this on Square? Crystal Dynamics? Did they Captain Planet this shit? Who the fuck thought adding TWO ARCHERS instead of adding Captain Marvel was a good idea?
Gotta love how they previously increased the amount of EXP needed to to level your heroes to max, and now that the game is on Gamepass they've started selling EXP boosters! And this after they promised up and down that real money purchases would only ever be for cosmetic items.
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-The only way I can get BP's meter to fill is if I block melee attacks, right? I can't block ranged attacks, correct?
-but so many times, they throw only ranged enemies at me, or even if they do throw melee attackers at me, the AI companions usually can take them out before I can really gain any headway.
-even if I can get the intrinsic meter filled to trigger a pulse, so many of the tasks want you to take out multiple enemies in one shot. Which again, my AI companions usually take out enough enemies to render this moot.
what am I not getting or is it not just me and they ramped up the difficulty of the challenge tasks. I just read that one of BP's skills allows BP's own melee attacks to fill the meter and to use the other skill where takedowns spawn intrinsic orbs...so okay, I'm just not far enough in the skill tree yet.
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You can parry certain ranged attacks, for instance you can parry the turret lasers over and over again as a cheap way to pump up intrinsic energy (though be careful as you spend a small amount as you flick it on.) Also just in case, much like hulk you can parry mid combo with BP's intrinsic.
The enemies introduced in the expansion have some really annoying uncounterable attacks. And yes, the AI companions will steal kills.
Also grabbing the skill in the passive tree that generates intrinsic energy on melee will help a lot.
Anyways, that $20 dollar price tag is great if anyone wants a fun if flawed singleplayer adventure. It's just, don't expect much (or anything) out of the gaas side of things yeah? Once the story (and I suppose the expansion stories as well) is over there's really not anything there. Seeing this thread pop up again reminds me i've been meaning to write my thoughts on the gaas stuff down, but procrastinator going to procrastinate. Especially when it's all so likely to be me dunking on the game ahah, games are hard and I prefer to be positive.
Hell they might have to pay me to play it
I got the game for free. I've played probably an hour or two of the campaign and feel no reason to go back.
EDIT: barely got enough of the kimoyo bead heals to finish the daily in time. the other one for hitting 3 or more enemies with a single intrinsic attack is a weekly so I've got some time on that. but yeah, multiple times I trigger it with 3 nearby and ill see 2 be affected by it, but not the 3rd for whatever reason. They were all on the ground too next to me, not flying if that matters. finally did get a credit for one recently but yeah I had what seemed like 9 enemies surrounding me that time.
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Yeah, to nobody's surprise, it does seem a little (very?) buggy at registering credit for BP’s objectives, which is kinda par for the course.
RE: the price thing - I wanna add an addendum to my post and say I forgot that $20 would be in USD, whereas I was thinking AUD (which would be more like 10usd, basically the price of a small indie game). I stand by my opinion (if the game was 10usd though) buuuut….
RE: The game not being worth playing even if it was free. Yes, 110%. If you’ve played for an hour and hated it, or even if you haven’t played it and don’t seem at all interested in playing the game for whatever your reasons may be, you are correct. The game is objectively bad and makes some really weird gameplay choices. I suppose my post was written for what I assumed were people checking out the thread looking for something to pass some time, but tbh I think it’s good to have had the counterpoint of “no this game is garbage”.
Hell I mean my post previous to the last one was basically me stating I was done with the game haha. I am still reeling from the new sonic enemies design - did they play test them to see if they were fun? That screen effect is awful. Just, aaaa why? It makes me want to wax poetic about what the game could have been, but that would be a huge waste of everyone's time.
I am now going to waste everyone's time by waxing poetic about what the game could have been, haha.
Spoiled for an obscenely long poorly written bunch of thoughts:
Which speaks to what I feel is the biggest problem with the game - a misunderstanding of what it is people want from a superhero game.
I could go into the minutia of how I feel the gameplay could be fixed, but without the ability to playtest the ideas, it’d be pointless. Also I feel it’s important to mention just how awful the art direction is, why is this game about superheroes specifically not from the movies and more from the comics not cell shaded?
Instead of all that I wanna focus on the “Game As A Service” systems.Being a GAAS is what i feel is at the heart of what's wrong with this game and I am not talking about the microtransactions. The GAAS structure this game is aping in design is fundamentally opposed to the design of other good superhero games.
So let’s talk about the game's progression structure first - The game has two axis of power progression, levels and Power Level.
Levels is an easy example of the shortcomings in this game, especially with the recent release of BP who suffers from their design choices more noticeably, the skill trees are designed not to provide new skills and abilities, but instead feel like you are unlocking basic functionality. The first skill tree page just has everyone unlocking fundamental combos and it shows. Iron Man at level 1 is the clunkiest character, compared to Iron man at around level 25 when you’ve unlocked all the basic skills.Their skill trees scream of padding, what with all the 5% increases, in all honesty 90% of the skills should be inherent, which would make playing a new hero feel so much better. .
Worse then all that is the gear.
Power Level grinds are horrible enough with one character. Without any cosmetics to provide something that feels like a reward, the skinner box design of the PL treadmill is more readily apparent than in other games. Even worse it has you jumping into a clunky menu to change your gear all the time making each mission end a chore of cleaning out your inventory and putting on new boring gear. So what's the fix? Remove it all.
Seriously, reduce the skill trees to like, maybe 5 or so skills per character that provide different heroics or maybe add some different modifiers to attacks (i.e pym particles, gamma, ext) and that’s all you need. Nobody plays a superhero game to feel weak, and nobody given a roster of different characters wants to do the same missions over and over again just to get the opportunity for some different gameplay.
In all honesty if you were to remove all gear and leveling from the game it would go from a 5/10 to a 6 instantly. It’s just such a poor choice for a game about superheroes. Seriously if you must have a number go up mechanic, make it a global thing - i.e upgrading the helicarrier or something.
Speaking of structure, that is the next issue - again, the game cribbed notes off the biggest GAAS around with no thought to modifying it to suit a superhero game.
Let’s call a spade a spade, the war table attempts to ape destiny’s mission structure, but it fails on so many fundamental levels to understand what made destiny's structure compelling for people to play through. And even if it did, destiny’s structure is a horrible pick for a superhero beat-em-up to base its mission design on.
Each mission outside the campaign follows the same basic structure, you go to some poorly designed hub world, with the same optional objectives you can go do, then you end up in the same AIM map and fight one of 5 or so challenges and you’re done. It’s awful.
Firstly no-one plays these games to fight the same generic mooks over and over, we’re here for the show stoppers - where’s the villain fight at the end of each mission? Also it’s not going to feel like a globe-trotting adventure if you don’t make the areas I'm going to interesting or memorable, and worse still a chore to move through.
The mission table sucks and is clunky, causing you to spend more time in a menu then smashing faces. The solution? Draw inspiration from other superhero games and one of the other better GAAS games to come out, The Division 2, with a map (or two) you stay on, that you fight to clean up, that eventually resets after rewarding you.
Setting the game on a single map means more focus can be spent on making traversal fun, and opportunities to provide interesting randomized moment to moment encounters. Players will hopefully feel more invested in the world when they aren't going from menu to menu and even better, we can take inspiration from saturday morning cartoons to plan out the day to day, week to week and month to month experience of playing the game. It’s crazy to me that there is only one villain group through the campaign (2 if you count the watchdogs, which I don’t) I was so sure hydra would pop up or whatever.
I’m going to spoil this as well as this is completely just me going off on a tangent haha.
Each zone will have someone in control, I.E Hydra, A.I.M, Ultron, ext. Providing unique cosmetic changes to the zone they control (like hydra banners on buildings, A.I.M. hives ext) Each group has a handful of unique basic henchmen to fight that spawn there, but the zone will have a number of B-List villains with attached objectives to go after. Similar to the vibe of the recent Spiderman Games you’d have random events show up, often themed to the villain in control (such as aim rounding up inhumans, hydra making prison camps, ext). Alongside these small focused missions placed around the map that make the lieutenants vulnerable, with the goal of the player fighting a lieutenant villain every 30 mins / hour
To keep it spicy you would want each to have some unique meta mechanic - say for instance the wrecking crew might have missions to isolate the members giving you a choice to take them on all at once in a real hard fight, or one by one more easily, or crossbones may have weapon stockpiles you can take out to weaken them in your upcoming fight.
Do enough good deeds in the area, take out a lieutenant or two and the Boss of the section of the map becomes vulnerable, we’re talking a fight with Zola, Yellowjacket, Killmonger, ext. These are the big fights that have interesting mechanics, probably akin to a small dungeon. You’d want the team for this, but I'd want to ensure that all this stuff was soloable. Taking out one of these guys gives you a reward, but also removes their influence, and the area goes to a neutral state - (civilians cheer you, and just basic bad guys may spawn in the area) but you get that feeling of progress. In general I'd say you want the player reaching this point every 2 or so hours.
Take out everyone and the final Mastermind emerges - i.e. Red Skull, Loki, Ultron, Scientist Supreme, ext. This is the show stopper fight. The avengers level threat. Tables get turned, the city gets put under siege. This is where you add some globe trotting, i.e fighting loki in asgard or Red Skull in a castle somewhere. This would be on the level of a bigger dungeon and each should feel real different. Take this guy out and you get a big reward, and some time to bask in your glory, until you either log out, or go to the helicarrier and progress time, randomizing the group in control and resetting the state of the city back to under siege. Ideally this would happen 1-2ish times a week depending on how often you play.
From there, I'd have a 1-3 monthly threat, we’re talking Thanos, Dormammu, that provides a universe destroying objective that adds some extra little spins into each session while they are active (I.e finding and protecting infinity stones, ext). These would be where the raids live.
In practice, you’re still doing the same things - but the game feels different. I think it would actually feel like you're making progress against these threats, but like a saturday morning cartoon, there’s always another evil plot to thwart. Better still structuring it this way means the dev team can plug in new villains at each tier, slowly growing the variety of encounters over the games lifespan.
Unfortunately, while I feel that does potentially push the game into a more interesting and thematic metagame pattern, there’s still a big problem, namely the game feel of the heroes.
Good superhero games (I’m talking Arkham, the good Spidermans, ext) understand something - movement and a feeling of power. Each of those games has you dealing with a similar amount of low tier bad guys, but often the question isn’t “can we survive” but rather “How efficiently can we demolish these 20+ bad dudes.” And sure, you’ll mess up and die - but the problem with Avengers is that when you mess up it never feels fair, it’s always a rocket from outside your screen or an attack you ate due to animation priority.
Alongside that it’s a joy to move around these gameplay spaces - Avengers just pales in comparison, which is such a shame. Again basing things on a singular interesting map could’ve helped the team make movement more interesting and fun, but we’ll never know.
There’s a bunch more on the gameplay front I could talk about, especially in regards to how co-op gameplay should have worked in this game, so much so that I could make one of those youtube essays that go way too long about it easily, but i’ll leave it there.
Here’s the TL:DR - Avengers, shows (or re-illustrates) that the GAAS format is not one size fits all. Ignoring the source material to make a power treadmill does not fit the genre, and attempting to ape the campaign structure of a fundamentally different game serves to make the game generic and boring.
At this point, there’s two outcomes for the game, either they re-vamp it somehow, or it’s going to shut down. I’m not holding my breath for anything other than the shut-down.
Bleh that's so negative, anyways there’s some fun to be had here in the meantime (Depending on your standards haha). I got my eyes on another project in the meantime.
But yah. That's a pretty bleak roadmap.
I haven't played this game and don't plan to given the reception, but I wonder if its failures are more related to execution than bad fundamentals.
So you have the combat which should be fun, but feels janky and clumsy because of the co-op netcode, you have a game not many people actually wanna play together so co-op is kinda pointless anyways, and the RPG loot and gear system isn't satisfying because it means a lot of grinding to make the heroes feel like, well, heroes. (And cosmetics are all money based so unless you drop some dough your guys look like everyone else).
They needed to divide characters along "class" lines and hone in on a few play styles that worked well for them. As is they just have so many characters and only a few feel good or satisfying to play. And if they had just made the same game but single player first, atleast you'd have a decent combat system to fiddle with without the fidgety nature of it being always online lobbies and such.
I actually think they need to abandon the cash shop approach and actually charge for DLC like destiny does, because skins cannot be paying the bills for this game
I made some, uh, bold claims there huh? I'll try to defend my position but I will concede I have overreached with some opinions.
I do wanna directly quote myself here: "The GAAS structure this game is aping in design is fundamentally opposed to the design of other good superhero games." I actually don't think levels and gear taken by itself are a problem, Nor do I think GAAS and SuperHero games cannot mix, (for example I designed a gaas based metagame for superheros in that post). It's more that I feel the devs have taken Destiny's GAAS format and systems with little thought to how that affects the superhero fantasy, or the overall player experience. Could it work with perfect execution? Maybe... but I don't think you'd ever get all the parts working perfectly with this many systems involved.
I think H Jay hit the point I'm trying to make here better than me though, haha.
Plus I'm guessing as part of the Sony deal they can't scale back the Spider-Man content they initially signed on for.
This may be overly cheesy, but seeing non-white, non-male Kamela Kahn get to geek out and be validated for it is doing this aging nerd's heart some good.
And after all that when it’s released, I’d guarantee the best Spider-Man experience would just be to play Insomniacs games.
Kamala Khan is easily the best part of the game
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But holy crap, that UI is a mess. I'm having a hard time telling what is where. And what the hell are stats like valor? How can I easily see how many resources I have before I upgrade anything? And don't get me started on the store. While unlocking cool suits in Spider-Man was a joy, in Avengers there are like 47 different varients of Ms Marvel that look exactly the same with slightly different red and blue tints. Just, ugh.
Kinda losing motivation. How much longer is this thing? The single-player, I mean. Does the main bad guy turn over-the-top mustache-twirling evil when he goes full MODOK, or is he just a generic bad guy with a big head?
But for me, what was more offensive is the subsequent egregious misuse of "touché." THAT TERM IS TO ACKNOWLEDGE A SKILLED PHYSICAL OR PSYCHOLOGICAL HIT NOT TO PASSIVELY ACCEPT A COMPLIMENT THEY SPENT HOW MANY GAZILLION DOLLARS ON THIS AND NOT ONE PERSON NOTICED THAT WHAT THE FUCK
/englishmajorrants
It’s also hard to say because the pace of the game increases pretty dramatically and the latter parts of the story feel like a sprint to the finish line. It felt to me as if they ran out of time and had to slap the back half of the game together in a hurry. The story all but disappears at some point.
Seriously? Blagh. The story's the main reason I'm sticking with this. Then again K-Mart brand Iron Man is testing my patience.
From a development standpoint, this game is fascinating. I mean, you can absolutely see the money behind this in the pretty environments and the absolutely lavish animations, especially in the extended cutscenes. I mean, seeing Kamala excitedly fidget is just loaded with personality. And they bothered to design a hilariously basic Iron Man armor and then an actually armor that's kind of shitty before you get to the red and gold in the story. But then all the nagging to grind for new bones for Hulk's wrists or some crap creeps in and they expect you to get excited for 47,000 new costumes for a newish character that's only ever worn one damn costume.
If you're talking about Kamala, she's had a second one already.
Well you have the base game's story, then the ~2.5 hour each stories for Kate and Clint, then the ~5 hour Wakanda story so there's more there certainly.
As an aside, if you're just trying to get through the stories you can and absolutely should completely ignore the terrible gearing system. After each mission just go in and hold the button down to equip the highest level item in each slot and carry on. Gear stats and perks are completely ignorable unless you plan to do the very high level content which requires a huge grind where being selective about gear still doesn't matter until you've hit max gear level (130). No joke they could cut that grind in half and it would still be too long and drawn out.
There's improvements to all that coming in the next couple months, but in typical CD fashion it feels like they don't quite understand the problem they're trying to solve so the solution sounds like it only partially helps, so eh.
Finally got BP to 50 last night. Getting pretty close to finishing his challenge card. After that, I just need to grind hives and shield strongboxes to get the last two trophies I need for Plat and I think I'm done with this game until Spiderman eventually drops...maybe. I've spent way too much time on this unfortunate game and I need to move on.
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I mean, they put a lot of effort into a bunch of areas, like art and animation and creating nigh-infinite outfit variations.
They just kinda dropped the ball when it comes to gameplay variety, in general.
Hey look, they gave me the game for "free"
It's on PC Game Pass too
There won't be a complete loot 2.0 overhaul. There won't be a combat refactor to make the bad characters feel good to play, and to rebalance it so characters don't feel like shit until they are "complete." Those things won't be happening. Heck, we don't even know what else they even have planned. Probably nothing beyond what is announced and what they are contractually obligated to release i.e. Spider-Man. Very likely at this point 90% or more of the Crystal Dynamics team has moved on to another project and this game is being maintained by a skeleton crew until they end-of-life it.
For Marvel super hero fans, it's best to look to the future. Hopefully Eidos Montreal's GotG game is good, and hopefully Firaxis' Midnight Suns game is good. But I think the ship has sailed for CD's Avengers.
With the player base the way it is that isn’t a huge loss
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The single player campaign is largely considered the "good" part
Tech wise though, the game is ass considering how long it's been out. There's one part in the helicarrier (real early on in the game) where there's the jumping puzzle in the hanger. My camera got locked on something and I couldn't turn off the lock... so I ended up having to make one of the jumps with the camera looking backwards. Goood times. And then there were the crashes to the desktop (or the XBone equivalent), four times it happened, and that's only by the third 'real' mission. Once it happened in Jersey City, once after the last cutscene where you get Banner on the team, then twice when fighting as Hulk near immediately after that. I'll just be playing along an then *poof*, home screen. I wasn't super duper impressed with Anthem's stability, but this might actually be unplayable considering that the game crapped out twice at about the same spot during the Hulk fight. Not that I'm going to spend more time testing that out. That final crash out occurred after maybe five minutes of playing, so I'm wondering if there's something specific in that fight that kills things.
Writing is just whatever, it's exactly what you expect to get and most everything you expect to happen happens when you expect it? I guess the one boss sorta thing pops up and was kind of a surprise and was a pretty old school reference. I doubt the game survives long enough for that to pay off. I'd prefer it does, but I doubt it does.
Characters are a mixed bag. Cap has no personality whatsoever. Stark comes off as a bad off brand RDJR that's far too jokey. Banner is the best character in the game I'd say. Widow is pretty good, no bullshit get the job done. Kamala is where they spent all their time but I don't give a shit about fanboys or fangirls and her arc is just no surprises and so fucking by the numbers tropey who cares? Thor is present in the game, he's....MCU Thor light I suppose.
Gameplay is a mixed bag so far; Kamala and the Widow are both fun to play but Iron Man feels clunky as shit. You only get to play Thor what, 5 minutes in the entire campaign so it's hard to say. The campaign obnoxiously forces you play as certain characters at certain points, so even though you levelled Widow up, here, play as Cap who you never played and has no gear and no skills. Good luck! Hulk seems alright, but isn't my bag. Some of the ending is just..."we need a phase for this hero, add another boss phase" - for Widow's you can't even take damage from what I saw, I just flipped around holding down shoot. Hulk just fights some mooks.
Equipping gear has no visual effect on your character and that is pretty fucking lazy. If you want to be a live service game, you're going to have to do better than that. Cosmetic outfits range from ok to garbage - I get it, Kamala has only been around for a few years but it looks like 70% of her outfits (that they expect you pay for sorta) are just 'hey, this t-shirt is green instead of orange!'. It's like they looked at how bad Bungie fucked up Shaders moving to D2 and said, "Hold my beer." Iron Man has what, 70 years of outfits and it doesn't look like they bothered to get the geometry right for most of, if any of them. Thor? Same thing, so many Thor possiblities, but here's Thor in sweats or a T-shirt. Outfits are a one shot deal, it's your entire look. You can't even mix and match. Hi, it's 2021, that shit doesn't play anymore. As noted, there are no colour options.
I want to try some co-op with a friend, but this just shrieks two week shelf life. It's astounding to watch developers and publishers get handed these amazing money printing devices and then somehow they manage to get their hand sucked into it and mangled. Was this on Square? Crystal Dynamics? Did they Captain Planet this shit? Who the fuck thought adding TWO ARCHERS instead of adding Captain Marvel was a good idea?
It's just scum all the way down.