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Pardon my French [Canadian Politics Thread]

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  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    edited September 17
    Richy wrote: »
    Disco11 wrote: »
    Having grown up in Quebec the English taught in schools was laughingly bad and non-functional.... By design. They don't want you to ACTUALLY learn it, yeah?

    They want to keep you trapped in QC with no options to move.

    As opposed to the marvelously fluent French speakers the French-as-second-language and French-immersion classes in the ROC have been producing? Hell they don't even bother teaching Québec/Canadian French, they teach European French. I've lived 12 years in Ontario (both southern and northern) and, aside from people born and raised in those small francophone communities in the north, I have never met an adult who learned French in school and could string a sentence together, never mind hold a conversation. Québécois people are, for the most part, functional in English.


    Or maybe you could not be a jerk and realize that a language is something you need to use continuously to master, not something you can just to learn in class and call it a day. The reason Ontario people who don't live in Francophone communities forget all the French they learned is because they never use it, because they never need to. The reason Québécois are functional in English is because they need to be either for their work, their entertainment (for those who don't like translations or like niche material that isn't translated) or to travel outside the province.

    Which brings us right back to why French language protection is necessary and English language protection is not.

    I speak fluently in 2 x languages and raised a child to speak french in a 99% English province. The base-level french taught in Calgary, Alberta in public grade school was of a higher level than my high school Sec. 5 level english taught in QC so maybe tone down your rhetoric a wee bit, yeah? There is actually a thriving french community here that kinda proves you don't NEED to be a little bit fascist to keep people educated in a language.

    The french language governments have never pushed for mass english to be taught properly because of the political blowback it would cause.... and To limit people leaving.



    Disco11 on
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  • EntriechEntriech Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    Disco11 wrote: »
    Having grown up in Quebec the English taught in schools was laughingly bad and non-functional.... By design. They don't want you to ACTUALLY learn it, yeah?

    They want to keep you trapped in QC with no options to move.

    As opposed to the marvelously fluent French speakers the French-as-second-language and French-immersion classes in the ROC have been producing? Hell they don't even bother teaching Québec/Canadian French, they teach European French. I've lived 12 years in Ontario (both southern and northern) and, aside from people born and raised in those small francophone communities in the north, I have never met an adult who learned French in school and could string a sentence together, never mind hold a conversation. Québécois people are, for the most part, functional in English.

    If we're going to go out swinging with the anecdotes, I'm one of those graduates from a full elementary/secondary immersion program, been 25 years since then and I'm still capable enough with French. My accent might not be perfect due to disuse, but I assure you, it's all still up there in my head. Following the french debates was no issue in particular. And if I lean into it? Say pick up a few novels, watch TV for a few weeks, listen to French radio? It all comes back.

    Both kids of my neighbour across the road are in French immersion. This is all in rural SW Ontario, in exactly the hick regressive areas you wouldn't expect to see it.

    Bolstering and protecting French doesn't have to come at the expense of providing the ability for people in Canada to function in Canada.

    Disco11oldmankenHardtargetSatanIsMyMotor
  • OmnomnomPancakeOmnomnomPancake OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited September 17
    Richy wrote: »
    Disco11 wrote: »
    Having grown up in Quebec the English taught in schools was laughingly bad and non-functional.... By design. They don't want you to ACTUALLY learn it, yeah?

    They want to keep you trapped in QC with no options to move.

    As opposed to the marvelously fluent French speakers the French-as-second-language and French-immersion classes in the ROC have been producing? Hell they don't even bother teaching Québec/Canadian French, they teach European French. I've lived 12 years in Ontario (both southern and northern) and, aside from people born and raised in those small francophone communities in the north, I have never met an adult who learned French in school and could string a sentence together, never mind hold a conversation. Québécois people are, for the most part, functional in English.


    Or maybe you could not be a jerk and realize that a language is something you need to use continuously to master, not something you can just to learn in class and call it a day. The reason Ontario people who don't live in Francophone communities forget all the French they learned is because they never use it, because they never need to. The reason Québécois are functional in English is because they need to be either for their work, their entertainment (for those who don't like translations or like niche material that isn't translated) or to travel outside the province.

    Which brings us right back to why French language protection is necessary and English language protection is not.

    Since it's anecdotal day;

    I agree with Disco, from the opposite side. Having grown up in Ontario (half in the GTA, half in North Ontario), the French taught in schools was also laughably bad, and non-functional. By the time you're in your final year of required French in Grade 9... you simply stop giving a fuck.

    They don't teach it in an engaging or intuitive manner. They don't teach conversational French at all, and are still thrusting grammar and structure first, and it's done by teachers who are completely out to lunch, because they know the kids don't fucking care; only the kids with great academic ambitions, or with parents with some degree of foresight for their teenage kids push them to continue onward.

    I picked up French because I moved to Ottawa for Uni, and had career ambitions where it was absolutely required, but also wanted to connect more with my Francophone grandmother, and converse more in her native tongue. But...she isn't in some small Francophone community. Loads of people in all sorts of large, northern communities still speak French day-to-day.

    People in Ontario forget their French because it was terribly taught, and they largely have no functional use for it. But you're painting it as if French use is some rarified thing exclusive to small bastions of Francophone, when that's simply not true. More anecdotes, but I've found people who can speak French fairly well from all the fuck over the North and South of Ontario - it isn't 'small community' exclusive.

    And, moreover, you'd be remarkably surprised at how much incidental French the average anglophone picks up, through simply living in the country, hearing it often spoken around the periphery, and having literally everything we buy have French on it.

    I don't think Quebec can have it both ways. They want to remove ALL visible religious symbols from public employment, saying its equal and fair under the law, despite it clearly being not the case (because how many people wear the Christian cross, like c'mon). But then, they want the rest of the country to respect their distinct society? So, we let Quebec to their distinct society of persecution?

    Why?

    Because leaders of Quebec spout constant paranoid projection meant to drum up fear and keep certain types in power of la belle province, and it's divisive bullshit that's regressive, and will only further harm Quebec's future, not save it. Quebec is, like much of Canada, demographically ancient, and absolutely requires young blood (re: Immigrants) to keep the engine of capitalism running. How the heck is shit like this going to help? You proudly proclaim for Quebecois French but deride Parisian French, and correct my if I'm wrong, it seems reveal that you'd rather kill the province to save the culture.

    How backwards it is, to watch people fearful of the cultural bloom that could exist in Quebec, where people from all over the world would come and create a new synthesis of culture and art and life - just as Quebecois/Francophone culture has become distinct over time. So fearful in what new additions might be made, to strengthen and vivify the province, and reveal the strengths of Quebec. No, instead let us dig our heels in, as the rest of Canada continues to evolve and grow and become something new.

    What a fucking waste.

    edit; formatting.

    OmnomnomPancake on
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  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    How this thread went from "loaded question during the debate" to something resembling "fuck Quebec" strikes me as a tragic - if interesting - microcosm for Canada as a whole, given that we're collectively quite progressive. <_<

    mrondeaushryke
  • CroakerBCCroakerBC TorontoRegistered User regular
    How this thread went from "loaded question during the debate" to something resembling "fuck Quebec" strikes me as a tragic - if interesting - microcosm for Canada as a whole, given that we're collectively quite progressive. <_<

    If it’s any consolation, Ontario is seriously getting on my nerves right now. I want subsidised daycare very, very much.

    mrondeau
  • LorekLorek Registered User regular
    edited September 18
    Give it a few days and we'll be singing kumbaya over Canadian food instead. Tis the Canadian thread cycle.

    Lorek on
    RichyArcticLancerGnome-InterruptusmrondeaufinnithForar
  • BionicPenguinBionicPenguin Registered User regular
    Speaking of Canadian food, I had some honey dill sauce recently for the first time in a loooong time. It's a crime that it's only a Manitoba thing. That stuff is delicious.

    Gnome-InterruptusEl Mucho
  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    Speaking of Canadian food, I had some honey dill sauce recently for the first time in a loooong time. It's a crime that it's only a Manitoba thing. That stuff is delicious.

    I like the sound of that

    PSN: Canadian_llama
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  • The Cow KingThe Cow King a island Registered User regular
    edited September 18
    .

    The Cow King on
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  • LaOsLaOs SaskatoonRegistered User regular
    Speaking of Canadian food, I had some honey dill sauce recently for the first time in a loooong time. It's a crime that it's only a Manitoba thing. That stuff is delicious.

    All I'll say is it's not just Manitoban... but it might just be a prairie thing. SK has it all up ins.

    (It's incredibly delicious!)

  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    Saw our friend yesterday who took over our old apartment when we bought our house. She presented us with a stray letter that had come in with no identifiers. Turned out it was a letter from the LPC's Andy Fillmore, so since we're no longer in the riding it can pretty effectively be filed under "junk mail." However in glancing at it I noticed the P.S: in a different font, and pretty quickly developed an opinion of him as it was a nicely paraphrased call to action to vote strategically.
    Andy wins that riding with absolutely ZERO threat from Cons and an actual threat from the NDP but here they are fear-mongering all the same. Fuck these people. I'm so tired of this shit. HAPPY SUNDAY MORNING! :D

    CanadianWolverine
  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    LaOs wrote: »
    Speaking of Canadian food, I had some honey dill sauce recently for the first time in a loooong time. It's a crime that it's only a Manitoba thing. That stuff is delicious.

    All I'll say is it's not just Manitoban... but it might just be a prairie thing. SK has it all up ins.

    (It's incredibly delicious!)

    I’ve had it here in the maritimes, usually from smaller joints.

    Remember, safety is everyone's concern. We have gone five days without a workplace death.
  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    PSN: Canadian_llama
    AridholHandkor
  • NosfNosf Registered User regular
    Bill 21 should have taxed the churches. What an untapped revenue stream.

    ImperfectGnome-InterruptusZibblsnrtHadesCanadianWolverineApogee
  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    Nosf wrote: »
    Bill 21 should have taxed the churches. What an untapped revenue stream.

    Whoa now. Don't want to piss off the christians. We have fundraisers there don't you know.

    PSN: Canadian_llama
  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    *gestures broadly to everyone* Go vote if you haven't already.

    AegisDisco11Gnome-InterruptusRichyCanadianWolverineShadowenSteelhawkImperfect
  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    Aridhol wrote: »
    *gestures broadly to everyone* Go vote if you haven't already.

    What if we have?

    PSN: Canadian_llama
  • mrondeaumrondeau Montréal, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Disco11 wrote: »
    Aridhol wrote: »
    *gestures broadly to everyone* Go vote if you haven't already.

    What if we have?

    According to Election Canada, in that case you should not vote again in this federal election, and wait for the results with a feeling of frustration and dread.

    AegisRichyInfidelDisco11Gnome-InterruptusTeriferinEl MuchoCanadianWolverineArcticLancerShadowenSteelhawkImperfectFencingsax
  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    Disco11 wrote: »
    Aridhol wrote: »
    *gestures broadly to everyone* Go vote if you haven't already.

    What if we have?

    oh, that's easy.
    Consume the news about it on every website and twitter nervously until the polls close and then watch terrible news coverage until the winner becomes obvious.
    Then, drink in celebration or in despair.

  • TenekTenek Registered User regular
    So... we're also waiting for the Blue Mirage since the unusually large number of mail ballots won't be counted until tomorrow? >.>

  • mrondeaumrondeau Montréal, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Tenek wrote: »
    So... we're also waiting for the Blue Mirage since the unusually large number of mail ballots won't be counted until tomorrow? >.>

    Unknown: we are not the US and postal votes might or might not have the same bias. Since significant levels of postal votes are new, we don't really know.

  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    mrondeau wrote: »
    Tenek wrote: »
    So... we're also waiting for the Blue Mirage since the unusually large number of mail ballots won't be counted until tomorrow? >.>

    Unknown: we are not the US and postal votes might or might not have the same bias. Since significant levels of postal votes are new, we don't really know.

    I think we are in uncharted Canadian political waters ATM.

    This was a weird fucking election.

    PSN: Canadian_llama
    BouwsTAridholmrondeauCanadianWolverineImperfect
  • Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    Found a cute comic of the election on Reddit lbx4rcx4tejb.jpeg

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  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    lol the green party

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  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited September 20
    Tenek wrote: »
    So... we're also waiting for the Blue Mirage since the unusually large number of mail ballots won't be counted until tomorrow? >.>

    That depends. Mail-in votes, which seem to be in record number this year, will be determinant for some tight races. So the question is how many tight races will there be, and whether there are enough to actually change the winner of the election.

    Richy on
    sig.gif
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    I've been getting SMS messages from the CPC. I am obviously not registered anywhere with them, so I'm guessing they've taken up spamming people? Is that even legal?

    sig.gif
    LordSolarMacharius
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Disco11 wrote: »
    lol the green party

    Should be the other way around. The Green Party is being dragged down by Paul.

    sig.gif
    Disco11mrondeauCanadianWolverineAridholBouwsT
  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    I got CPC robocalls early after the election call but haven't had anything since.
    Sure as shit never gave out my number to anyone directly associated.

  • mrondeaumrondeau Montréal, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    I've been getting SMS messages from the CPC. I am obviously not registered anywhere with them, so I'm guessing they've taken up spamming people? Is that even legal?

    Probably not, but there's somehow not going to be a real enforcement mechanism. Like last time.
    Also:
    Found a cute comic of the election on Reddit lbx4rcx4tejb.jpeg
    Disco11 wrote: »
    lol the green party

    It's also too nice for the NDP and Québec. In Singh's case, the underlying objection is very much not real secularism, it's mostly racism. Of course, I'm not talking about actual political difference, like the role of the federal government.

  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    Disco11 wrote: »
    lol the green party

    Should be the other way around. The Green Party is being dragged down by Paul.

    Yeah it should be the rock being held back by AMP

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Ford hiding behind a trash can is definitely on point.

    AegisTeriferinInfidelBouwsTShadowenDisco11EtiowsaImperfectLordSolarMacharius
  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Ford hiding behind a trash can is definitely on point.

    I didn't notice that until you said something. That is gold.

    BouwsTCanadianWolverine
  • darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    edited September 20
    Voted... not that it will really matter as I am in Calgary. One thing us liberal/NDP/Progressive types have in common with the Conservatives is we both will bitch about our votes not mattering. Mine for living in a sea of blue derp, and them because they will bitch the election was decided in Ontario/Quebec before our votes were even counted.. unless their team wins of course..

    darkmayo on
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Alright, it's election day. That means it's time to throw your bets down. Let's hear everyone's predictions!

    My Prediction:
    Basically nothing changes. Some seats shuffled here and there, another minority Liberal government.

    mrondeauRichyAegisAridholdjmitchellaGnome-InterruptusEntriechBionicPenguinTeriferinImperfectHadesFencingsax
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Based on the Facebook comments on news articles that I've read, I predict a PPC super-majority.

    sig.gif
    AridholArcticLancerCroakerBCGnome-InterruptusApogeeTeriferinFencingsax
  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    I predict either

    A) exactly what Shryke said. Nothing changes because some-fucking-how the liberals were caught flat footed by an election they themselves called.
    B) Majority Liberal govt because it's 2021 and who the fuck knows.
    C) Minority conservative govt gets in on the back of extreme voter apathy and turnout is mid 30s (33-37%)


  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Alright, it's election day. That means it's time to throw your bets down. Let's hear everyone's predictions!

    My Prediction:
    Basically nothing changes. Some seats shuffled here and there, another minority Liberal government.

    liberal minority with some seats shuffling around

    another election in 18 months


    go canada!

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    Handkor
  • DissociaterDissociater Registered User regular
    So my election experience this morning was discouraging.

    I never got my voter registration card, so I went to elections.ca and put in my postal code only to be told that polling locations for my postal code were 'unavailable at this time'. Keep in mind I live in Liberty Village, one of the most densely populated neighbourhoods in Toronto. I wonder how many people this affected? So I called them and was on hold for over an hour and all the poor guy working there could do was also go to the elections.ca website which gave him the same result. So it had to be escalated but I finally found out that I was supposed to vote at the CNE, a 2 km walk from my location. I enjoyed the walk a lot but I could totally see this being yet another additional barrier to voting for some people.

    But I get to the actual voting centre, and it was this huge auditorium, with a grand total of 4 voting booths. There were about 15 people working there, and the entire time I was there there was only maybe 2 other people voting. There was no line to get in, and half the people there looked like they were on the verge of falling asleep from boredom. The woman who registered me told me it was like this all day so far, even during the morning 'rush', basically very few people are showing up to vote. My hopes are it's just because advanced voting and mail-in voting has taken a cut out of the number of people who want to vote in person. But given the demographic of liberty village (mostly 20-40 year olds), my hopes are low.

  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Alright, it's election day. That means it's time to throw your bets down. Let's hear everyone's predictions!

    My Prediction:
    Basically nothing changes. Some seats shuffled here and there, another minority Liberal government.

    liberal minority with some seats shuffling around

    another election in 18 months


    go canada!

    I really hate that we agree so much lately.

    I'm going with exactly what @Hardtarget said

    PSN: Canadian_llama
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    So my election experience this morning was discouraging.

    I never got my voter registration card, so I went to elections.ca and put in my postal code only to be told that polling locations for my postal code were 'unavailable at this time'. Keep in mind I live in Liberty Village, one of the most densely populated neighbourhoods in Toronto. I wonder how many people this affected? So I called them and was on hold for over an hour and all the poor guy working there could do was also go to the elections.ca website which gave him the same result. So it had to be escalated but I finally found out that I was supposed to vote at the CNE, a 2 km walk from my location. I enjoyed the walk a lot but I could totally see this being yet another additional barrier to voting for some people.

    But I get to the actual voting centre, and it was this huge auditorium, with a grand total of 4 voting booths. There were about 15 people working there, and the entire time I was there there was only maybe 2 other people voting. There was no line to get in, and half the people there looked like they were on the verge of falling asleep from boredom. The woman who registered me told me it was like this all day so far, even during the morning 'rush', basically very few people are showing up to vote. My hopes are it's just because advanced voting and mail-in voting has taken a cut out of the number of people who want to vote in person. But given the demographic of liberty village (mostly 20-40 year olds), my hopes are low.

    Early voting is way up compared to 2019 and actually set a new record, and mail-in voting is through the roof. I'm not pessimistic about the voter turnout. Surprisingly, given that this has been by far the least inspiring election I've ever seen.

    sig.gif
    Gnome-Interruptus
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