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[Blood Bowl] Triple Skulls Every Time

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Posts

  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    While the touchdown number is impressive the wild thing to me is his prefect defence record. He also has made zero CAS, I think.

    DarkewolfeBloodySloth
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Yeah, no TD's from the other side while he runs in the ball means some wild fumbling or something.

    What is this I don't even.
  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    edited September 18
    We're officially getting a Khorne team, folks!

    Of the chaos gods to get Blood Bowl teams, I would have found Tzeentch or Slaanesh more interesting, but it was always weird that Nurgle had his own official team and Khorne didn't. It's Blood Bowl.

    Edit: Interesting to see no Minotaur or some new frenzy big guy like a Bloodthirster. Their linemen look low armor... Seems reasonable to expect their biggish dudes to be 4 Strength with high armor and Frenzy... maybe mighty blow? Actually I'm hoping they embrace the Khorne theme and give the whole team Frenzy.

    BloodySloth on
    Mr_RoseLordSolarMachariusNo-Quarter
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    The plastic teams don’t normally include Big Guys (unless that’s the entire team, like with Ogres) in the basic box. It’ll be interesting to see the final roster because those beastmen look specifically set up to be blitzer/runner types. Also, regular(-ish) humans in a chaos team!

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
    Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
    DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    We're officially getting a Khorne team, folks!

    Of the chaos gods to get Blood Bowl teams, I would have found Tzeentch or Slaanesh more interesting, but it was always weird that Nurgle had his own official team and Khorne didn't. It's Blood Bowl.

    Edit: Interesting to see no Minotaur or some new frenzy big guy like a Bloodthirster. Their linemen look low armor... Seems reasonable to expect their biggish dudes to be 4 Strength with high armor and Frenzy... maybe mighty blow? Actually I'm hoping they embrace the Khorne theme and give the whole team Frenzy.

    yqolbcbnncqi.jpg

    LordSolarMachariustzeentchlingBloodySlothMegaMan001
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    The models look pretty good, but yeah, khorne is kinda the least interesting god to me.

    Surprisingly similar to the AoS khorne models in some details and kinda more serious looking than the other chaos teams

    And the roster seems to be more in the vein of the chosen and nurgle teams than the current NAF khorne team.

    BloodySloth
  • LordSolarMachariusLordSolarMacharius Red wine with fish Registered User regular
    edited September 18
    ...
    Both Scyla and Max Spleenripper are specificially Khornate as well. I'd love to get Khorne/Slaanesh/Tzeentch teams, to compliment Nurgle.

    *rubs hands together gleefully* Two more to go.

    I also love that they've brought back the classic Realm of Chaos look for the Khornegors, leaning heavily into the houndishness while still keeping them hooved and horned.

    LordSolarMacharius on
  • EspantaPajaroEspantaPajaro Registered User regular
    Wait what happened to the khorne big guy? The demon ? Did they bring the team over without it’s most unique player?

  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    The big guys are often not released with the rest of the roster.
    I also don't think they'll get the bloodthirster from the daemons team, but rather access to the minotaur. A plastic Mino would work several other teams, too.
    They don't really look like GW's version of the daemons team anyway. More of a chosen variant like the nurgle team is.

    BloodySlothLordSolarMacharius
  • tzeentchlingtzeentchling Doctor of Rocks OaklandRegistered User regular
    Also Scylla still exists, they're just a separate purchase.

  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing To Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    So how does the new edition of BB compare to before?

    What's the average play time, and is there is stream-lined version of play to get through games faster.

  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    edited September 18
    I don’t think the average play time changed much, so 1-2 hours for a game unless you houserule timed turns or something, and the BB7s rules are in the Death Zone book; between the shorter pitch and fewer players it’s much faster, under an hour.
    As for the game overall, the separation of the passing stat from general agility (and the nerfing of the high-Ag teams that went with it) has flattened the top tiers a fair bit and the general rebalance of the skills has also put the brakes on runaway teams. That and having more cash between games also helps people avoid death-spirals, so the league is more fun end-to-end for everyone. I also like that they put some effort into re-wording the rules to clarify things a lot; makes picking up the game from zero far easier.

    Mr_Rose on
    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
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    DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
    No-Quarter
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    1 hour seems extremely fast. Even with timed turns (which coincidentally are not part of the official rules anymore).

    BloodySloth
  • EspantaPajaroEspantaPajaro Registered User regular
    edited September 18
    honovere wrote: »
    1 hour seems extremely fast. Even with timed turns (which coincidentally are not part of the official rules anymore).

    It better fucking be in the videogame , turns are already too long.

    EspantaPajaro on
    LordSolarMachariusMegaMan001
  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    I guarantee the videogame will get timed turns.

    As for tabletop, I would call 2 1/2 hours a quick game in the new edition. Maybe we're just slow players in my area. It remains an "event" game that you plan your evening around.

  • LordSolarMachariusLordSolarMacharius Red wine with fish Registered User regular
    War-Com article featuring art and a writeup of the Khorne team members. It appears that their new big guy is a "Bloodspawn", and while the model isn't shown there is art:
    6oUalBBOA1zVGniD-819x1024.jpg

    (I guess that fits with Scyla Anfingrimm, who is a spawn as well.)

    EspantaPajaro
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    edited September 21
    Seems like they took the Nurgle roster and changed all the references from rot- to blood-.

    arcticle mentions rules preview later this week. Hopefully it's more than "Frenzy for everyone"

    honovere on
  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    edited September 21
    My thoughts/wishlist:

    Linemen st3, frenzy

    Seekers st4, frenzy, mighty blow

    Khorngors st3, frenzy, horns?

    Bloodspawn st5, frenzy, claws

    Mutations as secondary access on the lot of them. Maybe primary on the linemen, just for a laugh?

    I really want the whole team to be a frenzy-laden shitshow. It would tickle my heart.

    Edit: I'm thinking the gors are gonna be your runners, so probably ma7... maybe even with dodge, but starting with a skill that's useful for scoring doesn't seem on brand for khorne or chaos.

    Edit2: Animal Savagery on the Bloodspawn, for sure. Skulls for the Skull Throne!

    BloodySloth on
    LordSolarMacharius
  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    1 hour seems extremely fast. Even with timed turns (which coincidentally are not part of the official rules anymore).

    It better fucking be in the videogame , turns are already too long.

    It's Cyanide so I one hundred expect them to DLC more than half their teams and have some AI bug that causes the computer to delay each of their turns and then never fix it.

    I am in the business of saving lives.
    DarkewolfeBloodySlothEspantaPajaro
  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    The difference between 5 Ogres and 6 Ogres is wild. I was finally back up to full strength for my least fixture of the season, after two games where I was missing an Ogre in each. 6 Ogres is super playable, with the right mindset. 5 is only one player less, and it's still more ST5 players than any other team will ever be able to field, but your squad is somehow so much easier to avoid.

    Anyway that's one last victory in the bank, and now we wait for a few stragglers to catch up in games, to see if I officially make playoffs.

    The leading team is Norse, and he loves to put his whole team on the line and brawl, so if I can squeak into the playoffs in the #4 spot, I have enough in the bank to buy an Ogre Firebelly, so he'll have a column of fire waiting to greet him.

  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    edited September 23
    My next game is against Skaven. It's going to be interesting playing against a team that is so, so much faster than Blorcs. He also gets about 200k in inducements (bought a Troll after last game thanks to a little side bet) so I kinda expect Hakflem to show up. After that it's two goblin teams in a row, with one coach just fresh from a big tourney where he won best stunty with gobbos and just won his league game against dwarves 3:1.

    honovere on
  • EspantaPajaroEspantaPajaro Registered User regular
    Bb3 EA has been delayed . Not really shocking , hope the ui isnt worse then the weather on mustafar.

  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    edited September 23
    https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/09/23/these-khorne-team-stats-let-you-master-the-art-of-grievous-violence-on-the-gridiron/

    Frenzy fest sowmewhere between the Nurgle Team and the Khorne Daemon team

    The loss of AG on the Bloodseekers plus the Frenzy makes the Gors way more important in this than in a chosen team, I think.

    honovere on
    BloodySloth
  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    Hilarious to me that the only guys without frenzy get juggernaut. It'd be tempting to just level them into frenzy anyway if it weren't for the fact that at least one will probably be your ball runner.

    I'm excited about the hint drop at the end of the article about the other gods getting some love in the next spike.

  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    the no frenzy, jugger combi is directly lifted from the daemons team Bloodletter positional.
    Pit Fighters 0-16
    6 3 3+ 4+ 9+ Frenzy

    Bloodletter Daemons 0-4
    6 3 3+ 4+ 8+ Horns, Juggernaut, Regeneration

    Khorne Heralds 0-2
    6 3 3+ 5+ 9+ Frenzy, Horns, Juggernaut

    The Herald to Bloodseeker change is really the biggest difference

  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    The switch to bloodseekers really makes for a cleaner looking roster. Plus, more strength is great, even if it's at the cost of lineman armor.

  • EspantaPajaroEspantaPajaro Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/09/23/these-khorne-team-stats-let-you-master-the-art-of-grievous-violence-on-the-gridiron/

    Frenzy fest sowmewhere between the Nurgle Team and the Khorne Daemon team

    The loss of AG on the Bloodseekers plus the Frenzy makes the Gors way more important in this than in a chosen team, I think.

    Will read it as soon as I get home!

  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    edited September 24
    I've also had time to try BB20 a few times now. And… I'm not sold. It has, I feel, two serious problems.

    1) Too much extraneous bullshit with little effect on the game. All the random tables you roll on before, during, and after the match appear to have little effect on the gameplay. The core game is fine, but all the random tables appear to me mostly a waste of time.

    2) Imbalanced teams. Yes, I know the community has embraced it, but it is and will forever remain poor game design. It's fine that e.g. an all-gnoblar team cannot reasonably expect to win, and perfect balance is impossible. But there's no excuse for having say ogres or halflings or any other team have no (or very little) realistic chance of winning regardless of player skill or how the team is built or for how long the league goes. (With luck, anything is possible of course, but that's not good enough; the odds are too long).

    Ed: I should say I've been playing BB sevens, but I don't feel that changes my thesis.

    [Expletive deleted] on
    Sic transit gloria mundi.
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    edited September 24
    There are a bunch of tables to roll on but which ones don't have a considerable effect on the game? Core rules have weather, kick off, injury, and casualty as part of the match (prayers don't really come up as far as I can tell?) and those are really impactful as long as the weather roll isn't "nice"

    League then has some bookkeeping, of course. But it isn't necessary to run a league, I guess if you don't like it. I could see a ressurection style league working, too for a leaner experience.

    The rest of the stuff from deathzone is all optional and I know that a lot of people don't use much of it (stadiums, sponsorships etc.)

    Yeah, I can understand that opinion, even if personally I think the difference between top teams and stunty teams isn't that crass. (Anecdotally, our two local leagues both have a stunty team currently placed second- Goblins and Gnoblars respectively)


    Sidenote: If you like the core idea of the game, maybe Blitzbowl could be more interesting for you?

    honovere on
    BloodySlothMr_Rose
  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    It's a hairy, old fashioned game, but that's why I like it.

    As for intentionally tiered teams... I honestly don't think it's bad game design. The fact that a more experienced coach can handicap themselves while also playing a team with humorous elements that allow them to pull off unique plays to keep it entertaining is good, actually. It also lets a new coach play a challenge team that gives them a built in justification for a loss to mitigate tilt, if that's something they're susceptible to.

    And I gotta tell you, I'm playing maybe the worst roster in the entire game and I still might make playoffs. 2020 edition has narrowed the gap between the best teams and the worst teams considerably, even if it has also gone as far as to make tiers official for the first time.

    Ken O
  • EspantaPajaroEspantaPajaro Registered User regular
    I don’t mind the stunties being bad , I just hate the teams that are supposed to be competitive being bad.

  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    edited September 24
    honovere wrote: »
    There are a bunch of tables to roll on but which ones don't have a considerable effect on the game? Core rules have weather, kick off, injury, and casualty as part of the match (prayers don't really come up as far as I can tell?) and those are really impactful as long as the weather roll isn't "nice"

    League then has some bookkeeping, of course. But it isn't necessary to run a league, I guess if you don't like it. I could see a ressurection style league working, too for a leaner experience.

    The rest of the stuff from deathzone is all optional and I know that a lot of people don't use much of it (stadiums, sponsorships etc.)

    Yeah, I can understand that opinion, even if personally I think the difference between top teams and stunty teams isn't that crass. (Anecdotally, our two local leagues both have a stunty team currently placed second- Goblins and Gnoblars respectively)


    Sidenote: If you like the core idea of the game, maybe Blitzbowl could be more interesting for you?

    Injury rolls have an effect, of course.

    Fan factor: Pointless roll. Weather: Not saying it has zero effect, but it has little effect. Kick-off: Lot of rolling for not great effect. Lot of unnecessary rolls after the game (yes, stuff happens, but too much rolling to determine what).
    It's a hairy, old fashioned game, but that's why I like it.

    As for intentionally tiered teams... I honestly don't think it's bad game design. The fact that a more experienced coach can handicap themselves while also playing a team with humorous elements that allow them to pull off unique plays to keep it entertaining is good, actually. It also lets a new coach play a challenge team that gives them a built in justification for a loss to mitigate tilt, if that's something they're susceptible to.

    And I gotta tell you, I'm playing maybe the worst roster in the entire game and I still might make playoffs. 2020 edition has narrowed the gap between the best teams and the worst teams considerably, even if it has also gone as far as to make tiers official for the first time.

    It's not good. An experienced coach can instead build the list oddly rather than using a bad team. E.g., only linemen or whatever, or teams that you have to work to build (e.g., underwold denizens where you have to buy a dozen different kits) rather than a "stock" team.

    And I don't like being punished for picking a team I think is cool.

    I picked ogres because they're cool and easy to convert and I can also use them for AoS. And everyone I've told my team choice has told me that a) I have a roughly equal chance of winning by staying home; b) that's how ogres have always been; c) that's how ogres will always be: and d) that's good, actually.

    It all sounds like some sort of mass psychosis to excuse bad design.

    [Expletive deleted] on
    Sic transit gloria mundi.
  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    edited September 24
    To a certain extent, "Ogres may as well stay home" is a meme more than a fact, though yes they're pretty near the bottom of the tier list. That being said, mass psychosis is pretty silly to put forth when "my tastes don't align with the majority of people who like this game" is right there. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it is objectively wrong.

    Anyway, an all linemen team sounds much more boring than halflings or ogres (unless you're looking at something like chaos renegades, and hey look, they're a lower tier team) and underworld denizens appear to be really competitive right now, so I'd probably steer an experienced coach away from them if they were playing against newer folks.

    Edit: I should note here that I don't play sevens and it's entirely possible ogres are totally unplayable in that mode. I wouldn't know. I do know they're difficult but playable in standard format, and I should know because I'm running that team now.

    BloodySloth on
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Swarming is one half of the new boost for underworld. Having 1-3 extra players on the pitch that can go basically anywhere to provide assists and fouls on top of your usual 11 player team is pretty nice. The other half is apparently hakflem who seems to be a bit busted at the moment. Maybe he'll get nerfed in the November FAQ.

    Re rolls: kickoff happens like 4-6 times per game, that doesn't seem like much. I haven't tried sevens, though, so I can't judge the effects there, in the base rules it can be pretty much have an effect.

    A lot of people in in the more competitive corner like the die hard fumbbl crowd of blood bowl take the team tiers way to serious I think and the difference gets overblown. At least in tournaments ogres are currently doing pretty well it seems compared to last edition. But admittedly that often includes tiering and star players.

    Anyway, Blitzbowl might work better for you. It's much leaner and faster with way less rolling outside of the player actions.

    BloodySloth
  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    edited September 24
    To a certain extent, "Ogres may as well stay home" is a meme more than a fact, though yes they're pretty near the bottom of the tier list. That being said, mass psychosis is pretty silly to put forth when "my tastes don't align with the majority of people who like this game" is right there. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it is objectively wrong.

    Anyway, an all linemen team sounds much more boring than halflings or ogres (unless you're looking at something like chaos renegades, and hey look, they're a lower tier team) and underworld denizens appear to be really competitive right now, so I'd probably steer an experienced coach away from them if they were playing against newer folks.

    Edit: I should note here that I don't play sevens and it's entirely possible ogres are totally unplayable in that mode. I wouldn't know. I do know they're difficult but playable in standard format, and I should know because I'm running that team now.

    You (and others who share your opinion) are not wrong to like the game. Like away!

    I stand by my statement: This is objectively bad game design, or as objective as you can get with something that has the word "design" associated with it. (You are allowed to like bad things, of course.)

    And it seems BB players have somehow convinced themselves that not only isn't it sloppy design, it's a work of genious. It's fantastic! All games should be grossly imbalanced!

    All linemen was simply an example of a team that's built badly even if the team is normally great (not necessarily one that would be fun to play). Like taking an all-scout army or deliberately picking anti-synergy in 40k or similar.

    I was using underworld denizens as an example of a team you have to work to aquire, not one that was necessarily bad. A new player can get an ogre team "by accident" by simply buying 1 box off GW. No one who doesn't explicitly go in for it at great cost and effort will end up with UD.

    If they want to preserve the concept of "shit teams for advanced/masochistic players", it should be reserved for the more esoteric teams (like UD). "Base" teams (ones that you can get with one or maybe two boxes) should be of (roughly) equal quality, or beginners risk falling into the trap of thinking they will have a chance when they will not. (And being told that's good, actually.)

    As for ogres: According to the stats on bloodbowlstrategies.com ogres have something like 25% win rate (compared to 60% of the best teams). The second worst team (goblins) is at 30% win rate. That's about as "can't win" as you can get it in a game, I feel.

    And as you say, having spent money, time, and effort to buy, build, customize, paint, etc. a team that cannot win is good, actually.

    As you can imagine, I feel really good about my choice. But mostly I feel thankful for the game designers. Such genius of design brings a tear to the eye. Or maybe I'm crying. Hard to tell, sometimes.

    [Expletive deleted] on
    Sic transit gloria mundi.
  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    edited September 24
    To a certain extent, "Ogres may as well stay home" is a meme more than a fact, though yes they're pretty near the bottom of the tier list. That being said, mass psychosis is pretty silly to put forth when "my tastes don't align with the majority of people who like this game" is right there. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it is objectively wrong.

    Anyway, an all linemen team sounds much more boring than halflings or ogres (unless you're looking at something like chaos renegades, and hey look, they're a lower tier team) and underworld denizens appear to be really competitive right now, so I'd probably steer an experienced coach away from them if they were playing against newer folks.

    Edit: I should note here that I don't play sevens and it's entirely possible ogres are totally unplayable in that mode. I wouldn't know. I do know they're difficult but playable in standard format, and I should know because I'm running that team now.

    You (and others who share your opinion) are not wrong to like the game. Like away!

    I stand by my statement: This is objectively bad game design, or as objective as you can get with something that has the word "design" associated with it. (You are allowed to like bad things, of course.)

    And it seems BB players have somehow convinced themselves that not only isn't it sloppy design, it's a work of genious. It's fantastic! All games should be grossly imbalanced!

    All linemen was simply an example of a team that's built badly even if the team is normally great (not necessarily one that would be fun to play). Like taking an all-scout army or deliberately picking anti-synergy in 40k or similar.

    I was using underworld denizens as an example of a team you have to work to aquire, not one that was necessarily bad. A new player can get an ogre team "by accident" by simply buying 1 box off GW. No one who doesn't explicitly go in for it at great cost and effort will end up with UD.

    If they want to preserve the concept of "shit teams for advanced/masochistic players", it should be reserved for the more esoteric teams (like UD). "Base" teams (ones that you can get with one or maybe two boxes) should be of (roughly) equal quality, or beginners risk falling into the trap of thinking they will have a chance when they will not. (And being told that's good, actually.)

    As for ogres: According to the stats on bloodbowlstrategies.com ogres have something like 25% win rate (compared to 60% of the best teams). The second worst team (goblins) is at 30% win rate. That's about as "can't win" as you can get it in a game, I feel.

    And as you say, having spent money, time, and effort to buy, build, customize, paint, etc. a team that cannot win is good, actually.

    As you can imagine, I feel really good about my choice. But mostly I feel thankful for the game designers. Such genius of design brings a tear to the eye. Or maybe I'm crying. Hard to tell, sometimes.

    Another compilation of play stats that came out recently pegs Ogres at ~40%, which, if nothing else, goes to show how variable amateur statistics can be and how much stock you should put into them. I'm not sure what you mean by "base teams" vs "esoteric teams" because your example, Underworld Denizens, comes in a single box available from GW. I believe it's between printings now.

    But anyway, you've gotten pretty geared up about this and seem pretty excited about the conclusion you've come to, so I'll just say I'm sorry you've had a bad time with the game and hope you haven't regretted giving it a whirl.

    BloodySloth on
  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    edited September 24
    To a certain extent, "Ogres may as well stay home" is a meme more than a fact, though yes they're pretty near the bottom of the tier list. That being said, mass psychosis is pretty silly to put forth when "my tastes don't align with the majority of people who like this game" is right there. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it is objectively wrong.

    Anyway, an all linemen team sounds much more boring than halflings or ogres (unless you're looking at something like chaos renegades, and hey look, they're a lower tier team) and underworld denizens appear to be really competitive right now, so I'd probably steer an experienced coach away from them if they were playing against newer folks.

    Edit: I should note here that I don't play sevens and it's entirely possible ogres are totally unplayable in that mode. I wouldn't know. I do know they're difficult but playable in standard format, and I should know because I'm running that team now.

    You (and others who share your opinion) are not wrong to like the game. Like away!

    I stand by my statement: This is objectively bad game design, or as objective as you can get with something that has the word "design" associated with it. (You are allowed to like bad things, of course.)

    And it seems BB players have somehow convinced themselves that not only isn't it sloppy design, it's a work of genious. It's fantastic! All games should be grossly imbalanced!

    All linemen was simply an example of a team that's built badly even if the team is normally great (not necessarily one that would be fun to play). Like taking an all-scout army or deliberately picking anti-synergy in 40k or similar.

    I was using underworld denizens as an example of a team you have to work to aquire, not one that was necessarily bad. A new player can get an ogre team "by accident" by simply buying 1 box off GW. No one who doesn't explicitly go in for it at great cost and effort will end up with UD.

    If they want to preserve the concept of "shit teams for advanced/masochistic players", it should be reserved for the more esoteric teams (like UD). "Base" teams (ones that you can get with one or maybe two boxes) should be of (roughly) equal quality, or beginners risk falling into the trap of thinking they will have a chance when they will not. (And being told that's good, actually.)

    As for ogres: According to the stats on bloodbowlstrategies.com ogres have something like 25% win rate (compared to 60% of the best teams). The second worst team (goblins) is at 30% win rate. That's about as "can't win" as you can get it in a game, I feel.

    And as you say, having spent money, time, and effort to buy, build, customize, paint, etc. a team that cannot win is good, actually.

    As you can imagine, I feel really good about my choice. But mostly I feel thankful for the game designers. Such genius of design brings a tear to the eye. Or maybe I'm crying. Hard to tell, sometimes.

    Another compilation of play stats that came out recently pegs Ogres at ~40%, which, if nothing else, goes to show how variable amateur statistics can be and how much stock you should put into them. I'm not sure what you mean by "base teams" vs "esoteric teams" because your example, Underworld Denizens, comes in a single box available from GW. I believe it's between printings now.

    But anyway, you've gotten pretty geared up about this and seem pretty excited about the conclusion you've come to, so I'll just say I'm sorry you've had a bad time with the game and hope you haven't regretted giving it a whirl.

    Didn't see UD on GW's site, and its listing in the manual seems to imply it's a grab-bag of various players from other factions and you'd thus need to buy skaven, goblins, snotlings, and big guy boxes to build it. (An "esoteric" or "grab-bag" team, if you will. A new player will not end up with one of these.) These sort of teams (grab-bag teams) would be appropriate place to but the "deliberately bad" teams.

    Unlike, say, dwarves where you'd just need to buy one or two boxes of dwarves. (A "base" or "stock" team, if you will. A new player will end up with one of these.) These sort of teams should be roughly on par with each other.

    Statistics may be off, but that's what I found. If you have better data, I am (genuinely) all ears.

    [Expletive deleted] on
    Sic transit gloria mundi.
  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    I know I'm coming across as hostile. I'm not trying to convince you to abandon a game you clearly enjoy. Enjoy the things you enjoy; there certainly aren't enough of those things.

    I found the core game to be fairly enjoyable, if a bit random, with too many extraneous rolls (weather, kick-off, etc.) that can (could) just be ignored.

    I can see the appeal of a league.

    But I refuse to cede ground on my thesis that gross imbalance between intrinsic team quality is terrible, actually.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    I was sort of hoping to get some comments of the type "yeah, it's bad but there are some house rules you could use" or "here's some strategies that would help" or something.

    Being told that I should be grateful for the genious design of making some factions nigh-unplayable raised my ire a bit higher than it perhaps should have.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
  • BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    edited September 24
    But I refuse to cede ground on my thesis that gross imbalance between intrinsic team quality is terrible, actually.

    If you refuse to cede ground, there's no point arguing against it. It's worth pointing out, though, that the page source for the article you linked shows that it was published in 2017, before the Ogres were improved in that edition with a rework that added a new positional, and before they were tweaked (slightly) again with the new edition, along with the new edition's changes to leveling up, throw team mate, and kick team mate that were largely positive for stunty teams and Ogres in particular.

    Edit: never mind

    BloodySloth on
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