You might have watched a group of 8 people taking down a 40 man raid boss. That's the only way I can think of such a long battle.
Anyway, like many have said, watching is boring, doing is fun. The purpose of watching is to give yourself an idea of the fight if you've never seen it before and to get an idea of the tactics behind the fight. The average raiding guild is not one that will encounter bosses without having some idea of how to defeat them beforehand.
Also there's the atmosphere of a raid that you can't get from videos. Joking with your friends, having your MT be drunk, your hunter pulling extra mobs and your group pulling off the kill without wiping, all of that's the fun part. People who are there for loot moreso than the experience will find themselves burnt out and complaining more often than not.
15, 25, same long ass time, same nearly falling asleep and mashing flash of light in a sort of hypnotic delirium.
Chromaggus actually did take 20 minutes, though, I remember it distinctly. Ebonroc took like 5, unless you fucked up. We always got a good laugh out of hearing of lesser guilds that took 45 minutes on him. (not making that one up). I remember Anub Arak going on at least 30 minutes on one occasion. Maybe longer, it was an absurd length of time.
I remember all the awesome times I had with my guild in AQ 40 and Naxx, and I almost want to reactivate and raid again. Then I remember that I play a paladin and am shoe horned into healing, which I can do in my sleep, none of the remaining guilds deserve my skills because my old guild transfered off the server, I can't raid on most nights anymore, and Alterac Valley. Yeah, mostly the last point there.
You might have watched a group of 8 people taking down a 40 man raid boss. That's the only way I can think of such a long battle.
Thats what I'm thinking. It was a popular video and they spent near half of it on the one boss fight.
Also there's the atmosphere of a raid that you can't get from videos. Joking with your friends, having your MT be drunk, your hunter pulling extra mobs and your group pulling off the kill without wiping, all of that's the fun part. People who are there for loot moreso than the experience will find themselves burnt out and complaining more often than not.
That does sound like fun. Unfortunately I get the vibe that that's not normal in raid groups.
Panickd on
Truth is beautiful, without a doubt; but so are lies.
You mean Paladins which are in great demand as tanks nowadays moreso than healers?
It would certainly be amusing to reappear three months after cancelling with my broke ass former s2 holy paladin decked out in blue dungeon tanking gear and asking to tank raids. Even my "friends" wouldn't let me. I'd have to heal raids to get the gear to tank. It'd be bullshit.
My paladin has all s1, S2, and S3 ret gear and people wouldn't even let me raid with that.
Thats really half the reason I quit that shit in the first place. I used to be on the leading raid guild before the expansion, I don't want or need to prove myself to anyone.
DisruptorX2 on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited February 2008
I don't remember Chrom ever taking 20 minutes. Nefarian, however, was a long ass fight.
And there is something to be said for getting something just right, and by the nose of it. The two raiding moments that stick out in my mind as poignant are two experiences in BWL. The first was my first kill ever on Nefarian, something I didn't actually see. I died during phase three, trying to drop some totems to slow/kill the ebb of skellies that were spawned, my self rez was on cooldown, and in those days you still released after 6 minutes. Thing is, the majority of the raid was dead at that point as well. We kill Nefarian right after the main tank died, and the off-tank burned his serker-rage to eat a fear. 20 more seconds and we would have been dead. The other moment I remember is kiting the razorgore mobs for an extra three minutes because the retard on egg duty didn't have any idea what he was doing. Again, I died right as the last egg was destroyed, finished in the nick of time.
There is also something said for doing something grossly undergeared and outperforming the majority of players by strength of will and merit of skill. One reason why I liked raiding in the past was because my guild was doing things at a faster pace than any other guild on our server. We damn sure weren't the firsts, but we were gliding through content, knocking out BWL start to finish in three weeks, while not sacrificing our health and our lives in order to progress.
Those are the moments that I really yearn for while raiding. Sure, I eventually just go through the motions in some cases in order to get gear, but that's how Blizzard has designed WoW. The gear serves to allow you to progress further, either in PvP or PvE.
And as for PvP, my favorite thing to do is to destroy cookie cutter teams with oddball combos that work.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Eh, I don't really feel like getting into a whole nother argument about raiding vs. whatever else. Everyone knows what both sides say by now.
I like raiding because of the social interaction, the fact that the group has to collaboratively solve problems, and the espirit de corps that grows in a raid that's been together a while. I like raiding because I like the dudes I play with, and it's fun to wax nostalgic about those good times we had six months ago. In short, I like raiding for all the reasons I play MMOs in the first place.
I can honestly say I don't give a shit about getting 'phat lewts,' and if that's why you raid you're going to hate it. My warlock's in 4/5 T5 with equivalent pieces everywhere else, and if I never get another upgrade but we kill Illidan before 2.4 drops, I'll be a happy man. The Tempest of Chaos is the last piece of gear that I can say I really want (because it's hot, but mostly because it matches my gear), and I've passed it to someone else once already.
WoW's never going to be a good twitch-based game. For my money there's more compelling PvP to be had in an FPS, on an Xbox, hell, basically anywhere else. WoW's PvP is santized and only barely balanced, and in the end neither the weight of its risks or the purity of its gameplay entertain me.
And no matter what you hear anywhere else, the 'access grind' in WoW's PvP is just as long and monotonous as the one for PvE. That's pretty much the entire point of the game from Blizzard's standpoint.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
When Burning Crusade dropped my wife and i, along with a few other RL firends decided to make a small laid back guild and try to find a crew of like minded players within wow to cultivate a sort of w/e you wanna do guild. Things were great for like 6 months, we had a very solid core group of people that we did a signifigant amount of 5 man content with and some PvP and just generally played the game like a game.
Then several people hit 70... and that was fine too. Our core group was big enough to do 10 man content regularly without stress and enjoy ourselves learning karazahn and eventually getting it on farm status.
Then several people grew bored with kara, and began looking toward Gruuls/Mag.. this is where things started to fall apart. 10 man content was no biggie, slightly harder than getting together a 5 man heroic but very doable within our guild. 25 man content required a recruitment drive. We decided to recruit enough people so that there would usually be enough ppl on that we could do 25 man content whenever we wanted. The ACTUAL result was like hiring 30 homeless guys to help you clean yer house. Yer house gets fucked up and some shit probably gets stolen.
we did gruul/mag for month and a half but i was not having fun anymore, i felt like i was just tard wrangling for 4 hours every night when i logged in. My wife quit entirely saying the game felt more like a job than her actual job.
I quit playing for roughly 2 months after i bought a PS3, and let my warrior class officer lead things for a while. when i came back nearly everyone had moved on to some harcdore raiding guild that was well into TK. Now my guild is back where it started pretty much with a loose group of mostly RL friends doing heroics and BG's/arenas and i am enjoying the game vastly more now.
i suppose i had a point wheni started this post, but what i think it boils down to is that The raid content can be very fun, but it's certainly not for everyone, luckily blizzard has implemented a great deal of content in BC that isnt justraiding for the rest of us to enjoy.
I think that's always been one of my gripes with raiding, too: the whole transient nature of it. It's not just raiding, but MMOs as a whole are that way, too; one week, you've got members A, B, and C. Next month, B's canceled, C's grown bored and doesn't log on much, and you've had to recruit D, who's a decent enough guy, but you barely know him, and E, who's a total fuckwit, but plays a class you need.
In WoW, I've had similar experiences. 5-mans are fun. 10-mans are fun. Battlegrounds are fun. Seeing the metagame shit-storm that accompanies raiding, well... that's not very fun.
And I wouldn't even take issue with it - it's pretty clear that raiding just isn't for me - except for the fact that it's the only way to get access to a lot of the best loot in the game.
Let's be honest: you take away the loot rewards and take raiding on its own value, and you'd have about 4 people on your entire server still interested in doing it. Hundreds more that'd do it if it didn't involve night after night of farming reagents, standing around, organizing, and then failing. But as it is now? Ugh. It's almost entirely irredeemable.
EDIT: That is to say, I think some changes to the loot mechanics and complete removal of shit like flasks (and corresponding rebalance) would make raiding both more accessible and more desirable. Badges are a huge step in the right direction from a system that seems to have started and stopped evolving at EQ. Hopefully, Blizzard keeps it up.
s3rial one on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited February 2008
I'm on the verge of locking this anyway, since it seems to be WoW Raid thread 2.0
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Posts
Ebonroc. Chromaggus. Anub Arak. Twin Emps.
I never did Naxx, but the other three never took 25 minutes. Twin Emps has a 15 minute enrage.
@OP: Have a look at http://www.warcraftmovies.com/stream.php?id=61387&stream=Stage6. I saw a similar video about BWL before I'd gone there, which got me all giddy about raiding. This seems to be the equivalent for BC raiding.
Anyway, like many have said, watching is boring, doing is fun. The purpose of watching is to give yourself an idea of the fight if you've never seen it before and to get an idea of the tactics behind the fight. The average raiding guild is not one that will encounter bosses without having some idea of how to defeat them beforehand.
Also there's the atmosphere of a raid that you can't get from videos. Joking with your friends, having your MT be drunk, your hunter pulling extra mobs and your group pulling off the kill without wiping, all of that's the fun part. People who are there for loot moreso than the experience will find themselves burnt out and complaining more often than not.
15, 25, same long ass time, same nearly falling asleep and mashing flash of light in a sort of hypnotic delirium.
Chromaggus actually did take 20 minutes, though, I remember it distinctly. Ebonroc took like 5, unless you fucked up. We always got a good laugh out of hearing of lesser guilds that took 45 minutes on him. (not making that one up). I remember Anub Arak going on at least 30 minutes on one occasion. Maybe longer, it was an absurd length of time.
I remember all the awesome times I had with my guild in AQ 40 and Naxx, and I almost want to reactivate and raid again. Then I remember that I play a paladin and am shoe horned into healing, which I can do in my sleep, none of the remaining guilds deserve my skills because my old guild transfered off the server, I can't raid on most nights anymore, and Alterac Valley. Yeah, mostly the last point there.
Chromaggus took > 20 minutes for a guild in BWL level gear.
Thats what I'm thinking. It was a popular video and they spent near half of it on the one boss fight.
That does sound like fun. Unfortunately I get the vibe that that's not normal in raid groups.
It would certainly be amusing to reappear three months after cancelling with my broke ass former s2 holy paladin decked out in blue dungeon tanking gear and asking to tank raids. Even my "friends" wouldn't let me. I'd have to heal raids to get the gear to tank. It'd be bullshit.
My paladin has all s1, S2, and S3 ret gear and people wouldn't even let me raid with that.
Thats really half the reason I quit that shit in the first place. I used to be on the leading raid guild before the expansion, I don't want or need to prove myself to anyone.
And there is something to be said for getting something just right, and by the nose of it. The two raiding moments that stick out in my mind as poignant are two experiences in BWL. The first was my first kill ever on Nefarian, something I didn't actually see. I died during phase three, trying to drop some totems to slow/kill the ebb of skellies that were spawned, my self rez was on cooldown, and in those days you still released after 6 minutes. Thing is, the majority of the raid was dead at that point as well. We kill Nefarian right after the main tank died, and the off-tank burned his serker-rage to eat a fear. 20 more seconds and we would have been dead. The other moment I remember is kiting the razorgore mobs for an extra three minutes because the retard on egg duty didn't have any idea what he was doing. Again, I died right as the last egg was destroyed, finished in the nick of time.
There is also something said for doing something grossly undergeared and outperforming the majority of players by strength of will and merit of skill. One reason why I liked raiding in the past was because my guild was doing things at a faster pace than any other guild on our server. We damn sure weren't the firsts, but we were gliding through content, knocking out BWL start to finish in three weeks, while not sacrificing our health and our lives in order to progress.
Those are the moments that I really yearn for while raiding. Sure, I eventually just go through the motions in some cases in order to get gear, but that's how Blizzard has designed WoW. The gear serves to allow you to progress further, either in PvP or PvE.
And as for PvP, my favorite thing to do is to destroy cookie cutter teams with oddball combos that work.
I like raiding because of the social interaction, the fact that the group has to collaboratively solve problems, and the espirit de corps that grows in a raid that's been together a while. I like raiding because I like the dudes I play with, and it's fun to wax nostalgic about those good times we had six months ago. In short, I like raiding for all the reasons I play MMOs in the first place.
I can honestly say I don't give a shit about getting 'phat lewts,' and if that's why you raid you're going to hate it. My warlock's in 4/5 T5 with equivalent pieces everywhere else, and if I never get another upgrade but we kill Illidan before 2.4 drops, I'll be a happy man. The Tempest of Chaos is the last piece of gear that I can say I really want (because it's hot, but mostly because it matches my gear), and I've passed it to someone else once already.
WoW's never going to be a good twitch-based game. For my money there's more compelling PvP to be had in an FPS, on an Xbox, hell, basically anywhere else. WoW's PvP is santized and only barely balanced, and in the end neither the weight of its risks or the purity of its gameplay entertain me.
And no matter what you hear anywhere else, the 'access grind' in WoW's PvP is just as long and monotonous as the one for PvE. That's pretty much the entire point of the game from Blizzard's standpoint.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Then several people hit 70... and that was fine too. Our core group was big enough to do 10 man content regularly without stress and enjoy ourselves learning karazahn and eventually getting it on farm status.
Then several people grew bored with kara, and began looking toward Gruuls/Mag.. this is where things started to fall apart. 10 man content was no biggie, slightly harder than getting together a 5 man heroic but very doable within our guild. 25 man content required a recruitment drive. We decided to recruit enough people so that there would usually be enough ppl on that we could do 25 man content whenever we wanted. The ACTUAL result was like hiring 30 homeless guys to help you clean yer house. Yer house gets fucked up and some shit probably gets stolen.
we did gruul/mag for month and a half but i was not having fun anymore, i felt like i was just tard wrangling for 4 hours every night when i logged in. My wife quit entirely saying the game felt more like a job than her actual job.
I quit playing for roughly 2 months after i bought a PS3, and let my warrior class officer lead things for a while. when i came back nearly everyone had moved on to some harcdore raiding guild that was well into TK. Now my guild is back where it started pretty much with a loose group of mostly RL friends doing heroics and BG's/arenas and i am enjoying the game vastly more now.
i suppose i had a point wheni started this post, but what i think it boils down to is that The raid content can be very fun, but it's certainly not for everyone, luckily blizzard has implemented a great deal of content in BC that isnt justraiding for the rest of us to enjoy.
In WoW, I've had similar experiences. 5-mans are fun. 10-mans are fun. Battlegrounds are fun. Seeing the metagame shit-storm that accompanies raiding, well... that's not very fun.
And I wouldn't even take issue with it - it's pretty clear that raiding just isn't for me - except for the fact that it's the only way to get access to a lot of the best loot in the game.
Let's be honest: you take away the loot rewards and take raiding on its own value, and you'd have about 4 people on your entire server still interested in doing it. Hundreds more that'd do it if it didn't involve night after night of farming reagents, standing around, organizing, and then failing. But as it is now? Ugh. It's almost entirely irredeemable.
EDIT: That is to say, I think some changes to the loot mechanics and complete removal of shit like flasks (and corresponding rebalance) would make raiding both more accessible and more desirable. Badges are a huge step in the right direction from a system that seems to have started and stopped evolving at EQ. Hopefully, Blizzard keeps it up.