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Turning out a New Third Age [WoT TV show] [for Book readers]
Sleep
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again. In one Age, called the 1st Age by some, an Age we all live in a wind rose above the hills of Prague. The wind was not the beginning. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the Wheel of Time. But it was a beginning...
So there's a little story that was written some 20 plus years ago by the name of the Eye of the World by a man with the name of James Oliver Rigney Jr. Working under the pseudonym Robert Jordan. This novel would go on to have some good reception and spawn just a few sequel volumes. It is a little story of brave knights and scheming scoundrels, and how they are often one and the same. In a land of monsters and magic users, and really fuckin fraught gender politics. Many smoothed skirts, and pulled braids, and crushed goblets. Armies clashing, heroes on journeys, people getting erased from time, it's got it all.
Well this little story got picked up a few years ago by of all companies amazon to be made into a tv show, cause Bezos needs to eat up HBOs GoT brunch.
A trailer or two
https://youtu.be/3Fus4Xb_TLg
https://youtu.be/8ABgqUh8M98
an article:
https://www.gq.com/story/inside-amazons-wheel-of-time
Talk about the TV show and/or books here.
spoiler policy:
Since there will be a lot of people watching this who haven't read the books, and possibly also later picking up the books
-closed, and labeled, spoilers for books, at least as far as things that have not yet happened in the show, or got cut, or were substantially different.
-closed spoilers for the most recent episode, open for previous week's content
-exception being the first 3 episodes which all drop at once, so closed for the first weekend to hopefully not trip anybody popping in, but not long enough its a full week of spoiler tags.
So there's a little story that was written some 20 plus years ago by the name of the Eye of the World by a man with the name of James Oliver Rigney Jr. Working under the pseudonym Robert Jordan. This novel would go on to have some good reception and spawn just a few sequel volumes. It is a little story of brave knights and scheming scoundrels, and how they are often one and the same. In a land of monsters and magic users, and really fuckin fraught gender politics. Many smoothed skirts, and pulled braids, and crushed goblets. Armies clashing, heroes on journeys, people getting erased from time, it's got it all.
Well this little story got picked up a few years ago by of all companies amazon to be made into a tv show, cause Bezos needs to eat up HBOs GoT brunch.
A trailer or two
https://youtu.be/3Fus4Xb_TLghttps://youtu.be/8ABgqUh8M98an article:
https://www.gq.com/story/inside-amazons-wheel-of-time
Talk about the TV show and/or books here.
spoiler policy:
Since there will be a lot of people watching this who haven't read the books, and possibly also later picking up the books
-closed, and labeled, spoilers for books, at least as far as things that have not yet happened in the show, or got cut, or were substantially different.
-closed spoilers for the most recent episode, open for previous week's content
-exception being the first 3 episodes which all drop at once, so closed for the first weekend to hopefully not trip anybody popping in, but not long enough its a full week of spoiler tags.
Sleep on
+14
Posts
I'm also excited by this and hope it actually turns out well.
Okay that's what I expected. I mean, I will still be behind because I tend to wait until shows are done airing before watching them, but it's good to know either way.
Since there will be a lot of people watching this who haven't read the books, and possibly also later picking up the books
-closed, and labeled, spoilers for books, at least as far as things that have not yet happened in the show, or got cut, or were substantially different.
-closed spoilers for the most recent episode, open for previous week's content
-exception being the first 3 episodes which all drop at once, so maybe closed for day of to hopefully not trip anybody popping in, and open starting the next day so we don't have a week worth of nothing but spoiler tags.
(I'm trying not to get too psyched for this but its very difficult tbh)
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
Not even worth mentioning. You can't have a long discussion on a topic everyone agrees on. I'd be deeply mistrustful of anyone who didn't like Bela.
The quick shots at 0:31 here convinced me that the people behind the camera get the books in a way your average Hollywood/television type wouldn't. It's not a guarantee it'll be good, but I doubt the show will fail because the team doesn't understand the series.
Spoilers for book symbolism:
The fact they were able to signal them in such good shots tells me they know what they're doing.
Or maybe she means literally 'the earth' under their feet, I don't know.
of course it's not called that, what kind of brain dead creatures would name their planet 'dirt'?
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Spoilers for All Books:
Show speculation based on above spoiler:
It'll probably be product placement.
Holy shit those look amazing.
I'm really hoping that the first episode opens up the same way the first book does, which is seriously one of my favorite passages in fiction.
The Wheel of Time turns ...
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
I should give them another shot. Excited to see this show though, I really loved some of the stuff in the books.
Show Speculation w/Spoilers for All Books:
I'm thinking Season 2 covers Book 1 and the first act of Book 2.
Speculation for Season 1 end point:
Then Season 2 covers the rest of Book 2 and Book 3.
Speculation for Season 2, spoilers for Books 2 and 3:
The climaxes of Books 2 and 3 have some key points in common: Egwene being captured by evil channelers and Rand fighting Ishamael while accepting that he is the Dragon Reborn. While the books have nuance that keeps those events from being copies of each other, that might be lost on a tv audience watching a single 8-episode season. Putting them together means you can focus on building up to one Big Ass Ending instead of two.
Now, they may indeed keep them separate and that'll work, too, but it's neat to speculate
To be fair, given that source material, what we got was goddamn incredible.
I believe the canonical name of the planet that fandom settled on was Randland. We should just roll with that.
Based on some of the lack of casting announcements for certain characters, I’d guess we get to
Depending on how quickly they go possibly getting as far as some of them reaching Caemlyn.
As you might guess I’m super excited for the show. Been a fan since HS over 20 years ago (and been using this Screenname since, lol)
Plot predictions based on characters
Re the book one prologue: If they do it, I think
Shift it a little bit and you get
The Dragon destroying his entire family and then himself, creating Dragonmount.
Smash cut to "So anyway, as we were saying at the end of last season, you're the Dragon reborn."
Specifically:
Yep, and it’s implied
My personal theory is that decades/centuries of radiation-induced genetic mutation led to discovery/re-discovery of channeling.
Question: what is the policy on leaked images and the like?
Where is that part implied?
I changed my op cause yeah looking it up that's totally the author's aim that we live in the first age.
It’s fair to read it as just another distorted legend like “Glenn riding to the moon in the belly of an eagle made of fire,” but the First Age ending in a cataclysm would fit what we see with the Second and the Third.
The events of the series are a much softer apocalypse than the Breaking, but it still sees virtually every cultural and political norm shattered across the known world.
I'm also pretty sure RJ confirmed at some point in a Q&A or something that the Second Age officially began with the discovery of the One Power, but I can't track down the source for that now.
I'm also pretty sure at some point he says that every age beings/ends with some kind of large upheaval but not necessarily an apocalypse like we see between the Second and Third age. I mean, for all the shit that goes down at the end of the Third Age, it's mostly political and social upheaval
Trailer and book new spring (0?)/1/2 stuff:
There's that panning shot of a brown fortress, which they've confirmed as Fal Dara. Along with shots of top-knotted soldier people, so definitely at least getting up there by the end.
I think they're skipping Caemlyn entirely since we don't have any casting for any of those characters. Which is fine really, the royal siblings are just as easy to introduce in season 2 when Egwene/Nynaeve/Mat make it to Tar Valon. They don't really impact much Eye of the World plot stuff at all.
Jordan started writing the series in 1984 when it looked like the Cold War might go on for longer than another 7 years.
https://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2018/01/the-genesis-of-wheel-of-time.html?m=1
In an early draft of the story, the First Age indeed ended with a nuclear war. However, that’s not clear in what was published.
Also super interesting: he got the original idea for the series while DMing D&D.
Talking about Season 2 casting...
As for thoughts on the end of Season 1.
Thoughts for different Ages and going from one to the other..
There's hints sprinkled a few places, but a huge chunk are actually in the beginning of book 1, if you have it on hand.
Glenn flying to the moon on a eagle with a belly of fire (John Glenn)
Anla the Wise Councilor (Ann Landers)
Merk and Mosk, Giants with flaming spears they hurled at each other across the world (America and Moscow and Cold War/nuclear missile race)
Etc
Though whether it's after one cycle of the wheel, or many, or if it's stuff leaking in from different versions of the pattern which you can access through the portal stones is also a possibility.
My only hope is that the gender politics weirdness is toned down
Yeah he was definitely trying to do a sexism is bad thing, but the execution was... lacking.
It's a little funky. Every time a female character is introduced, the book talks about how attractive they are and what it would be like to kiss them / dance with them.
The book talks about how bad sexism is, and the proceeds to be massively sexist. It's super jarring.
https://three-degrees-below-social.tumblr.com/post/107520367078/isams-wheel-of-time-summary-the-eye-of-the
Rand: Sounds good to me. Join us.
Lanfear: I like powerful men. My favorite is the Great Lord of the Dark.
Rand: Did you say something?
Lanfear: No. Go Light.
————
Moiraine: My brilliant theory about The Prophecy of the Dragon is that you need to wage war against Illian, because ‘The People of the Dragon’ obviously are the people of Tear. Also, you need to wear a yellow pointed party hat, because that is my understanding of the line “He will bring war.”
Rand: I have a different interpretation of The Prophecy of the Dragon.
Moiraine: What would you know about The Prophecy of the Dragon? You’re merely the Dragon Reborn, while I am a busybody.
Rand: You haven’t been helping me out a lot lately. You didn’t give me any advice in Fal Dara – instead, you ignored me, and after Falme, you said I should simply “wait for the Pattern.”
Moiraine: That’s what good advisors do. Give advice once a year. And the advice that we do give is poorly thought-out and incorrect.
Rand: My instinct tells me I should go my own way again.
Moiriane: That will lead to disaster.
Rand: It was a disaster when I went to Tear, and took Callandor?
Moiraine: Yes. That was a disaster because it made me look like an idiot for not advising you to do anything, then being angry when you did something.
Rand: Well, these are disastrous times.
————-
Rand: Too bad no one killed Couladin when we had the chance.
Rhuarc: That would violate ji’e’toh.
Rand: ji’e’toh restricts you from stopping madmen warlords?
Rhuarc: Yes. The rule is madmen warlords can try to kill you, and everyone near you, and everyone else who isn’t near you, and everyone they know, and everyone they thought was looking at them funny.
Rand: What does ji’e’toh let me do?
Rhuarc: You can mutter under your breath.
Rand: Shaido dogs.
Rhuarc: Now you’re getting it.
Doesn't really feel spoilerish to reveal that in the books male and female magic users draw their magics from different pools and the male pool is poisonous and makes you insane if you use it (you learn this shit in the prologue). This should immediately start throwing up flags for you here in 2021 as maybe a bit of a problem. I generally just remind myself that, after actually examining the text, a key implication is that the only major actual gender essentialisms in the book are the totally made up rules of magic. The implications of that being that gender essentialism is made up bullshit. Like in the book it regularly makes a joke of a character saying something grossly gender essentialist or sexist, and then the story almost immediately disagreeing with the character's assertion by showing someone bucking that suggested norm, or telling that character to fuck right off. Excepting dealing with magic, and even there it regularly insists that the greatest feats of magic are performed when everyone works together and gender essentialist behavioral definitions are eschewed (circles and linking).
As others have said the books try very hard to do an anti sexism, but like it was being written by a dude born in the 40s, in a medium that was at the time heavily targeted towards young men at the time it was written, so he probably wasn't the perfect person to try and do that and failed regularly, but it's always kinda visible that he was trying even oof it didn't come out right.
I do have hopes for the tv series to deal with it a bit better in some ways, like I think I've heard somewhere that they're going to take the step to make at least egwene, if not all 5 of the two rivers folk moraine takes, ta'veren. Though maybe I heard wrong.
Like there's definitely some super fuckin dire stuff that can absolutely get cut without any trouble, but some of it is kinda core to why the world of wheel of time is the way it is, and I think if they lean into that only being because of the totality bullshit magic system they can moderately thread the needle on it, and hopefully better than Jordan managed. I still expect to see folks pissed about gender essentialist themes represented by the magic system though, and I absolutely don't begrudge anyone observing the major issues it represents.