doc ock is NOT going to be good.
it's going to be 3 spideys vs the villains with strange being kind of anti all of them as he tries to fix things (when will he learn)
If Holland ends up out I hope the next live-action incarnation is Miles Morales or whatsisface from SpiderMan 2099 or something. I like Peter Parker as much as the next SpiderFan but I've had enough different actors in the role to go at least the next decade or so without another one. If Holland wants to keep doing it for the next 10 years and Sony/Marvel can make it happen then that's cool with me but I'm just sick of the character changing faces every few years.
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0
Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
Spider-Man 2099 would make an awesome movie.
It'll never happen but I can dream. I love Miguel.
It actually seems like Marvel and Sony have a good working relationship right now. The only question mark is, will they trot out the money trucks to keep Tom Holland, because his contract is up after this.
And while all of us can't ever imagine turning that amount of money down for any reason, Holland is about to star in Uncharted and who knows what else.
It's entirely possible he's a huge question mark because he's done for awhile with this.
Well, not necessarily. Chris Pratt is in just about everything and that's not stopping him from being in GotG 3. And Holland isn't saying "yeah, I'm done."
But of course he, Sony, and Marvel will all have to come up with something they can all agree on if he were to continue.
Yeah Holland seems to be genuinely enjoying it, is getting paid to do it, and hasn't given any signs that he wants to be done at all that I've seen.
Andrew Spidey will totally get his redemption by being the one to save MJ. It will allow him to move past his losing Gwen.
The sixth villain to make up the Sinister Six will be Mysterio, who faked his death.
Doc Ock is going to turn on the Six and help the Spidey's try to fix the situation.
It'll be fun to see if I'm right about any of those.
One twist to a theory of yours I like
Ock is going to turn on the Six to help Spidey fix the situation...and to survive and return to some timeline to continue his work.
If they decide to keep a separate spidey beyond this movie or if this ultimately merges everyone into the MCU who knows - but I think Ock is sticking around alive somewhere at the end.
I like that they're
picking and choosing the stuff that was good from the other films(Lizard, elements of Electro, Sandman) and ditching what sucked(SM3 Venom, ASM Green Goblin).
Also, if we get Garfield doing his masterclass quips, that'd be wonderful.
I hate to be that guy but
it looks like maybe ASM Green Goblin is in, or maybe Dafoe Goblin has more than one look
What if they meet up, realize there can't be two Green Goblin's, and one of them says "Hmm... what if I decide to wear orange instead?".
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
This kinda reminds me how WB is sitting on a gold mine with Batman Beyond.
It still absolutely flabbergasts me that DC had the MCU sitting right there in front of them, tried to do their own, and proceeded not to learn anything from those movies. They started with Superman, a character so far beyond needing any introduction at this point it's not even silly, and then promptly killed him in the second movie, introducing Batman, who's in a similar position re: introduction. Then they had Wonder Woman, a solid move, and Suicide Squad doesn't really count because nothing in it affects any other movie. Then they go for Justice League! Three movies before their ensemble show, and three of their starring characters have to take up valuable screen time in Justice League showing who they are, plus a fourth who needs a resurrection. Compare that to Avengers: Cap, IM1&2, Hulk, Thor. (Granted, Hulk got some retconning, but the events are still canon to the setting.) Going onto the helicarrier, we're already familiar with all the dramatis personae. Avengers can focus on the team itself, and the looming threat, without having to justify everyone. How did DC not understand that?
Back in 1992 when the 2099 books were coming out it was all super-sci-fi stuff. But between how much the real world has changed in the last 30 years and the advanced tech already present in... 2026 or whatever Now is in the MCU, you could plop Miguel Whatsisname down in the modern-day MCU with basically no changes and just have him be SpiderMan if Holland is out. He and Morales could both show up and be different sorts of SpidersMan.
Man, I dunno, I think I own all of the 2099 books and they are not great.
Unless we're talkin Ravage 2099. That shit would sail.
As a kid I loved them, and that's who they were written for
The main thread of X-Men 2099 is about a devil man that owns a "whore-house". That shit was definitely not specifically for kids!!
0
ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
Yeah, the narrative is that DC rushed things, but I'm not sure?
Iron Man: 2008. Avengers: 2012. Four movies (that actually affect things) occurred before the team-up.
Man of Steel: 2013. Justice League (Whedon cut): 2017. Three movies (that actually affect things) occurred before the team-up.
So they...skipped one movie and took the same amount of time. But what matters is that, while MoS worked fine as a standalone (even if it was pretty meh as a movie and was completely unnecessary because literally everyone knows Superman), there was almost no hint of anything to come (it didn't have a post-credits scene talking about other superheroes), Wonder Woman was pretty good (and was only marginally integrated into a larger storyline), and then BvS was a big long loud advertisement for Justice League, complete with what were basically in-universe trailers and logo designs. And as you noted, killed off one of the main characters so one of the stories in Justice League had to be their resurrection.
0
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
This kinda reminds me how WB is sitting on a gold mine with Batman Beyond.
It still absolutely flabbergasts me that DC had the MCU sitting right there in front of them, tried to do their own, and proceeded not to learn anything from those movies. They started with Superman, a character so far beyond needing any introduction at this point it's not even silly, and then promptly killed him in the second movie, introducing Batman, who's in a similar position re: introduction. Then they had Wonder Woman, a solid move, and Suicide Squad doesn't really count because nothing in it affects any other movie. Then they go for Justice League! Three movies before their ensemble show, and three of their starring characters have to take up valuable screen time in Justice League showing who they are, plus a fourth who needs a resurrection. Compare that to Avengers: Cap, IM1&2, Hulk, Thor. (Granted, Hulk got some retconning, but the events are still canon to the setting.) Going onto the helicarrier, we're already familiar with all the dramatis personae. Avengers can focus on the team itself, and the looming threat, without having to justify everyone. How did DC not understand that?
I've said this before but I always feel it's a problem a lot of superhero movies have - feeling the need to show the character origins when it's someone REALLY famous like Superman/Batman/Spiderman/etc (if they're less famous it makes more sense, but like some of the really big ones not so much). I think Batman gets this the worst of all of them - you literally don't need a Batman origin story. Just show him being Batman and make some passing reference to his parents' death (god that scene has been depicted soooooooooooooooo many times) and you know everything you need to know about him.
But yeah, DC got super greedy. But even then, it *could* have worked. Look at Guardians of the Galaxy - that's five main characters all introduced for the first time in the same movie and it was fantastic (not to mention they were SUPER no-name at the time.. at least DC had the advantage that most people know all of the characters in Justice League, or at a minimum, Superman and Batman). But then James Gunn is good at large ensemble movies (which is why I hear the new Suicide Squad is good too). There are ways to do it right, but I suspect DC execs wanted to fast track their DCU and didn't put in the work like Marvel did. It also doesn't help that all the Snyder films were really divisive to begin with which was probably another reason it was hard to build an "MCU like" following. I've seen a good video examining this and the big thing they brought up was that Snyder has a very Ayn Randian view of the world (meaning "take care of yourself before others" which is like the antithesis of what Super Heroes are supposed to be, especially characters like Superman...) and that's probably why a lot of his DC movies flopped. But you look back at like, Christian Bale Batman and that series of movies was pretty beloved. They *could* have done it with the right directors, writers, planning, etc.
It's not how quickly the movies came out or how many movies there were in the DCEU before their "team up" film. It's who and what was in those movies.
They did a Superman solo film which, regardless of your feelings about the movie, was, at least, a movie about Superman.
Then, the second film in their franchise simultaneously:
* tries to introduce the Justice League (kinda, anyway, at least in that it was named 'Dawn of Justice')
* pits their only existing character against their new character
* kills their existing character
It's like if Marvel had done Iron Man, then immediately done Civil War as the introductory movie for Cap and had Tony die at the end.
Then we get Wonder Woman, which was fine.
And now w'ere back to the entire Justice League, introducingthree completely new heroes and bringing back Batman who still hasn't actually had a solo film within the universe and resurrecting the dead guy.
By the time the MCU rolled around to Avengers 1 none of the heroes were showing up for the first time and even the bad guy (or at least the nominal bad guy, in the form of Loki) was a known quantity to some extent. DC tried to speed-run it but Justice League had (for most of its running time) only one hero who'd actually done a solo film by then, 3 who'd never been in a film at all, and a badguy completely out of left field without even the benefit of non-comics-nerd name recognition. Like, someone who doesn't read comics hears "Loki is the bad guy" and even if they've not seen Thor they know, "Oh, okay, some Norse god trickster guy, yeah, I guess that sounds bad." The DCEU gives us "Wait, a band from the 60's is threatening the world? What?"
Yeah, the narrative is that DC rushed things, but I'm not sure?
Iron Man: 2008. Avengers: 2012. Four movies (that actually affect things) occurred before the team-up.
Man of Steel: 2013. Justice League (Whedon cut): 2017. Three movies (that actually affect things) occurred before the team-up.
So they...skipped one movie and took the same amount of time. But what matters is that, while MoS worked fine as a standalone (even if it was pretty meh as a movie and was completely unnecessary because literally everyone knows Superman), there was almost no hint of anything to come (it didn't have a post-credits scene talking about other superheroes), Wonder Woman was pretty good (and was only marginally integrated into a larger storyline), and then BvS was a big long loud advertisement for Justice League, complete with what were basically in-universe trailers and logo designs. And as you noted, killed off one of the main characters so one of the stories in Justice League had to be their resurrection.
Not to mention BvS was MORE time on the big heroes. DCEU was rushed in terms of screentime, not in terms of temporal "when the movies release".
The problem with the 2099 stuff was always that the setting was more interesting than the characters; spider-man 2099 was a great example of this. Instead of finding something interesting about this scientist from the far future they just have him re-run Peter Parker’s emotional angst.
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
+2
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
I wonder if DC could have done the inverse of Marvel.
Start off with a Justice League movie with established heroes (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, and Cyborg/Aquaman) fighting some alien villain (nothing god-tier, but like Despero or fucking Mongul). You wouldn't get any huge backstory on these characters, other than a few lines of dialog and an idea of their personalities (this is mostly done for The Flash and Cyborg/Aquaman as they aren't as recognizable to general audiences).
They can still be characters, and it lets DC get an idea of which characters are fan favorites and which ones can take a backseat in terms of a solo movie.
I don't know how movie-goers would handle this, but it's at least different from Marvel's blueprint.
Andrew Spidey will totally get his redemption by being the one to save MJ. It will allow him to move past his losing Gwen.
The sixth villain to make up the Sinister Six will be Mysterio, who faked his death.
Doc Ock is going to turn on the Six and help the Spidey's try to fix the situation.
It'll be fun to see if I'm right about any of those.
Even if Mysterio faked his death, there's no way everyone just forgot to lock out his password for the holo-drones so unless he's got a backup supply of them somewhere that he replaced the firmware on he won't have any mysterio powers. He'd just be a dude in a mo-cap suit.
Now if a Mysterio with actual powers came through an actual portal from another universe and Peter initially treats him like he's a dude with a drone swarm that would be hilarious.
Here's the thing about Mysterio's fate
Peter transferred control of the glasses to Beck. Beck never transffered control back to Peter. So after the Peter tingle finally works and Beck is shot, anything Peter does with the glasses is, in theory, Beck's design. Pete asks if this is real, the glasses tell him it is, and he takes that answer at face value. Never take anything at face value when Mysterio is involved. Always double check your work.
This fits with him revealing Peter's identity. That is the move of a man with future plans. So either Mysterio is now a collection of stage workers, or Beck is still alive.
+2
Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
Yeah, always thought it was wack that Peter confirms Beck's death with the glasses. Felt like that was there as a loophole to bring him back later.
But going off of No Way Home trailers
Peter seems to be in legal trouble for Beck's death, so you'd think there has to be a verified body.
But then again, he's clearly not going to jail over it, so maybe there is no body...
Andrew Spidey will totally get his redemption by being the one to save MJ. It will allow him to move past his losing Gwen.
The sixth villain to make up the Sinister Six will be Mysterio, who faked his death.
Doc Ock is going to turn on the Six and help the Spidey's try to fix the situation.
It'll be fun to see if I'm right about any of those.
Even if Mysterio faked his death, there's no way everyone just forgot to lock out his password for the holo-drones so unless he's got a backup supply of them somewhere that he replaced the firmware on he won't have any mysterio powers. He'd just be a dude in a mo-cap suit.
Now if a Mysterio with actual powers came through an actual portal from another universe and Peter initially treats him like he's a dude with a drone swarm that would be hilarious.
Here's the thing about Mysterio's fate
Peter transferred control of the glasses to Beck. Beck never transffered control back to Peter. So after the Peter tingle finally works and Beck is shot, anything Peter does with the glasses is, in theory, Beck's design. Pete asks if this is real, the glasses tell him it is, and he takes that answer at face value. Never take anything at face value when Mysterio is involved. Always double check your work.
This fits with him revealing Peter's identity. That is the move of a man with future plans. So either Mysterio is now a collection of stage workers, or Beck is still alive.
There is a question of whether Pete had to "take them back". Did he actually transfer control, or just make Beck an authorized user, without losing root privileges. Freaking Tony Stark making all the worst ideas.
+1
ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
Andrew Spidey will totally get his redemption by being the one to save MJ. It will allow him to move past his losing Gwen.
The sixth villain to make up the Sinister Six will be Mysterio, who faked his death.
Doc Ock is going to turn on the Six and help the Spidey's try to fix the situation.
It'll be fun to see if I'm right about any of those.
Even if Mysterio faked his death, there's no way everyone just forgot to lock out his password for the holo-drones so unless he's got a backup supply of them somewhere that he replaced the firmware on he won't have any mysterio powers. He'd just be a dude in a mo-cap suit.
Now if a Mysterio with actual powers came through an actual portal from another universe and Peter initially treats him like he's a dude with a drone swarm that would be hilarious.
Here's the thing about Mysterio's fate
Peter transferred control of the glasses to Beck. Beck never transffered control back to Peter. So after the Peter tingle finally works and Beck is shot, anything Peter does with the glasses is, in theory, Beck's design. Pete asks if this is real, the glasses tell him it is, and he takes that answer at face value. Never take anything at face value when Mysterio is involved. Always double check your work.
This fits with him revealing Peter's identity. That is the move of a man with future plans. So either Mysterio is now a collection of stage workers, or Beck is still alive.
Mysterio showing up still but it's actually the scientists who were helping Beck would be a great spin.
One thing occurred to me watching the trailer again
what do you think the messed up spell actually did? Why is it only Spidey villains and not random folks?
Do these all have something else in common? Maybe in exchange for making everyone else forget, it brought in people who knew he was Peter in other universes?
PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - twitter: @ MikesPS4 - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
Andrew Spidey will totally get his redemption by being the one to save MJ. It will allow him to move past his losing Gwen.
The sixth villain to make up the Sinister Six will be Mysterio, who faked his death.
Doc Ock is going to turn on the Six and help the Spidey's try to fix the situation.
It'll be fun to see if I'm right about any of those.
Even if Mysterio faked his death, there's no way everyone just forgot to lock out his password for the holo-drones so unless he's got a backup supply of them somewhere that he replaced the firmware on he won't have any mysterio powers. He'd just be a dude in a mo-cap suit.
Now if a Mysterio with actual powers came through an actual portal from another universe and Peter initially treats him like he's a dude with a drone swarm that would be hilarious.
Here's the thing about Mysterio's fate
Peter transferred control of the glasses to Beck. Beck never transffered control back to Peter. So after the Peter tingle finally works and Beck is shot, anything Peter does with the glasses is, in theory, Beck's design. Pete asks if this is real, the glasses tell him it is, and he takes that answer at face value. Never take anything at face value when Mysterio is involved. Always double check your work.
This fits with him revealing Peter's identity. That is the move of a man with future plans. So either Mysterio is now a collection of stage workers, or Beck is still alive.
Mysterio showing up still but it's actually the scientists who were helping Beck would be a great spin.
It really would be awesome, but consider the real world implications.
Would Disney green light a villainous collective that uses an actor's likeness after his death? Seems like a really unflattering parallel to the company itself.
0
ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
Finally saw Black Widow and Shang-Chi because I realized they were on Disney+.
Finally saw Black Widow and Shang-Chi because I realized they were on Disney+.
Liked Black Widow. Really liked Shang-Chi.
I watched Shang-Chi for a second time on the + and there is a hard line between where I love the movie and then I dislike it. It was so awesome right up until the end of the 2nd big set piece. After that, eh.
Finally saw Black Widow and Shang-Chi because I realized they were on Disney+.
Liked Black Widow. Really liked Shang-Chi.
Yeah, I saw Black Widow recently too. And I have to say, the supporting cast MADE the movie, it felt like a real movie with a Black Widow cartoon of a character slapped on top of it, with all the grand CGI nonsense that it includes. Less floating cloud lairs and more dialogue and character development would have made the movie better for me.
Also, the whole pheromones that stop your hand mid-strike like a force field, but dont affect your mind state in any other way, and the chemical control that can be stopped by sprinkling pixie dust on the black widows, that is all so dumb, there were a million ways to get to that result with non-dumb means, and the MCU has even done it before with Bucky, Black Widow would have been a great movie if Black Widow wasnt in it.
Yes, with a quick verbal "boom." You take a man's peko, you deny him his dab, all that is left is to rise up and tear down the walls of Jericho with a ".....not!" -TexiKen
I wonder if DC could have done the inverse of Marvel.
Start off with a Justice League movie with established heroes (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, and Cyborg/Aquaman) fighting some alien villain (nothing god-tier, but like Despero or fucking Mongul). You wouldn't get any huge backstory on these characters, other than a few lines of dialog and an idea of their personalities (this is mostly done for The Flash and Cyborg/Aquaman as they aren't as recognizable to general audiences).
They can still be characters, and it lets DC get an idea of which characters are fan favorites and which ones can take a backseat in terms of a solo movie.
I don't know how movie-goers would handle this, but it's at least different from Marvel's blueprint.
That's basically Eternals. It's got most of the core Justice League hero templates plus a couple. Opinions on it are pretty mixed but I enjoyed it. Had it been the Justice League, replacing the "here's what happened over the past 10,000 years" flashbacks with "here's how these superheroes came together" flashbacks, I think it'd work. Probably better since you have the free prep work done by Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, and Flash all being (at least somewhat) familiar characters in the public consciousness.
One thing occurred to me watching the trailer again
what do you think the messed up spell actually did? Why is it only Spidey villains and not random folks?
Do these all have something else in common? Maybe in exchange for making everyone else forget, it brought in people who knew he was Peter in other universes?
No Way Home speculation:
Given that the spell going wrong apparently messed with the structure of reality in the multiverse, perhaps the original spell is meant to shunt Peter into a reality where nobody knows he's SpiderMan. Only Peter starts throwing in requests for X, Y, and Z to actually know. And the only way for them to know would be to draw them into the alternate reality along with Peter, or draw them from parallel realities where they knew but the general public never found out. The spell destabilizes and sucks in random people from realities where the general populace doesn't know Peter's identity but a person here or there does, so we get villains who know who he is and, eventually, other Spiders Man who, obviously, know their own secret identities.
Stabilizing reality requires sending everyone back to their home reality, which, for all those villains, means they die. Peter doesn't like that and tries to find another way.
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+4
Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
I really enjoyed Black Widow more than most did it seems. I thought the end got a bit James Bond-y with the floating fortress and the ridiculousness, but I kind of liked that to be honest.
Pugh was the MVP of the movie though. She was so fun and I look forward to what they have planned for her in the future. I am sad to see Scarlet gone from the MCU though. Loved her Black Widow.
I wonder if DC could have done the inverse of Marvel.
Start off with a Justice League movie with established heroes (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, and Cyborg/Aquaman) fighting some alien villain (nothing god-tier, but like Despero or fucking Mongul). You wouldn't get any huge backstory on these characters, other than a few lines of dialog and an idea of their personalities (this is mostly done for The Flash and Cyborg/Aquaman as they aren't as recognizable to general audiences).
They can still be characters, and it lets DC get an idea of which characters are fan favorites and which ones can take a backseat in terms of a solo movie.
I don't know how movie-goers would handle this, but it's at least different from Marvel's blueprint.
This would require people in Hollywood to have original ideas :P
One thing occurred to me watching the trailer again
what do you think the messed up spell actually did? Why is it only Spidey villains and not random folks?
Do these all have something else in common? Maybe in exchange for making everyone else forget, it brought in people who knew he was Peter in other universes?
So I saw a decent theory about this. The basic idea was that because the spell was related to Spider-man, it acted like a magnet to attract some of the villains that hate Spider-man the most. I think I can go along with that idea. The movie might have more specifics or something tho.
As for the rest, I'm still really unsure if the spell even worked. It's super obvious it DIDN'T work on MJ and Ned because they're both there for most of the trailer. But it feels weird to me that Peter's little interruptions would actually be acknowledged by the spell (like the spell saying "Ok, you want MJ to remember...") and kinda makes me suspect maybe it just didn't work at all beyond also ripping a hole in the multiverse :P
I really enjoyed Black Widow more than most did it seems. I thought the end got a bit James Bond-y with the floating fortress and the ridiculousness, but I kind of liked that to be honest.
Pugh was the MVP of the movie though. She was so fun and I look forward to what they have planned for her in the future. I am sad to see Scarlet gone from the MCU though. Loved her Black Widow.
I really don't think they're going to get rid of spider-man in this movie/die. As others have said, if anything venom coming over is proof that they're trying to get more of those characters over to the mcu. I think if anything this can end with him retiring or even just having a new status quo set up, and then let him ride off into the sunset. Or, just not have any more movies centered on him and have him pop into a couple of teamups.
edit: further meta discussion - they're absolutely not going to have iron man give his life to save spider-man's and then just kill peter.
non spoilery theory aside, I think Holland's statement is completely reasonable.
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it's going to be 3 spideys vs the villains with strange being kind of anti all of them as he tries to fix things (when will he learn)
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It'll never happen but I can dream. I love Miguel.
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I still have the first issue of this (and all the other 2099 homies)
Unless we're talkin Ravage 2099. That shit would sail.
As a kid I loved them, and that's who they were written for
Yeah Holland seems to be genuinely enjoying it, is getting paid to do it, and hasn't given any signs that he wants to be done at all that I've seen.
The main thread of X-Men 2099 is about a devil man that owns a "whore-house". That shit was definitely not specifically for kids!!
Iron Man: 2008. Avengers: 2012. Four movies (that actually affect things) occurred before the team-up.
Man of Steel: 2013. Justice League (Whedon cut): 2017. Three movies (that actually affect things) occurred before the team-up.
So they...skipped one movie and took the same amount of time. But what matters is that, while MoS worked fine as a standalone (even if it was pretty meh as a movie and was completely unnecessary because literally everyone knows Superman), there was almost no hint of anything to come (it didn't have a post-credits scene talking about other superheroes), Wonder Woman was pretty good (and was only marginally integrated into a larger storyline), and then BvS was a big long loud advertisement for Justice League, complete with what were basically in-universe trailers and logo designs. And as you noted, killed off one of the main characters so one of the stories in Justice League had to be their resurrection.
I've said this before but I always feel it's a problem a lot of superhero movies have - feeling the need to show the character origins when it's someone REALLY famous like Superman/Batman/Spiderman/etc (if they're less famous it makes more sense, but like some of the really big ones not so much). I think Batman gets this the worst of all of them - you literally don't need a Batman origin story. Just show him being Batman and make some passing reference to his parents' death (god that scene has been depicted soooooooooooooooo many times) and you know everything you need to know about him.
But yeah, DC got super greedy. But even then, it *could* have worked. Look at Guardians of the Galaxy - that's five main characters all introduced for the first time in the same movie and it was fantastic (not to mention they were SUPER no-name at the time.. at least DC had the advantage that most people know all of the characters in Justice League, or at a minimum, Superman and Batman). But then James Gunn is good at large ensemble movies (which is why I hear the new Suicide Squad is good too). There are ways to do it right, but I suspect DC execs wanted to fast track their DCU and didn't put in the work like Marvel did. It also doesn't help that all the Snyder films were really divisive to begin with which was probably another reason it was hard to build an "MCU like" following. I've seen a good video examining this and the big thing they brought up was that Snyder has a very Ayn Randian view of the world (meaning "take care of yourself before others" which is like the antithesis of what Super Heroes are supposed to be, especially characters like Superman...) and that's probably why a lot of his DC movies flopped. But you look back at like, Christian Bale Batman and that series of movies was pretty beloved. They *could* have done it with the right directors, writers, planning, etc.
They did a Superman solo film which, regardless of your feelings about the movie, was, at least, a movie about Superman.
Then, the second film in their franchise simultaneously:
* tries to introduce the Justice League (kinda, anyway, at least in that it was named 'Dawn of Justice')
* pits their only existing character against their new character
* kills their existing character
It's like if Marvel had done Iron Man, then immediately done Civil War as the introductory movie for Cap and had Tony die at the end.
Then we get Wonder Woman, which was fine.
And now w'ere back to the entire Justice League, introducingthree completely new heroes and bringing back Batman who still hasn't actually had a solo film within the universe and resurrecting the dead guy.
By the time the MCU rolled around to Avengers 1 none of the heroes were showing up for the first time and even the bad guy (or at least the nominal bad guy, in the form of Loki) was a known quantity to some extent. DC tried to speed-run it but Justice League had (for most of its running time) only one hero who'd actually done a solo film by then, 3 who'd never been in a film at all, and a badguy completely out of left field without even the benefit of non-comics-nerd name recognition. Like, someone who doesn't read comics hears "Loki is the bad guy" and even if they've not seen Thor they know, "Oh, okay, some Norse god trickster guy, yeah, I guess that sounds bad." The DCEU gives us "Wait, a band from the 60's is threatening the world? What?"
Not to mention BvS was MORE time on the big heroes. DCEU was rushed in terms of screentime, not in terms of temporal "when the movies release".
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Start off with a Justice League movie with established heroes (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, and Cyborg/Aquaman) fighting some alien villain (nothing god-tier, but like Despero or fucking Mongul). You wouldn't get any huge backstory on these characters, other than a few lines of dialog and an idea of their personalities (this is mostly done for The Flash and Cyborg/Aquaman as they aren't as recognizable to general audiences).
They can still be characters, and it lets DC get an idea of which characters are fan favorites and which ones can take a backseat in terms of a solo movie.
I don't know how movie-goers would handle this, but it's at least different from Marvel's blueprint.
Coran Attack!
Studios are likely to throw more money at someone they're trying to keep vs someone who tells them they'll play the role forever.
Here's the thing about Mysterio's fate
This fits with him revealing Peter's identity. That is the move of a man with future plans. So either Mysterio is now a collection of stage workers, or Beck is still alive.
But going off of No Way Home trailers
But then again, he's clearly not going to jail over it, so maybe there is no body...
Do these all have something else in common? Maybe in exchange for making everyone else forget, it brought in people who knew he was Peter in other universes?
It really would be awesome, but consider the real world implications.
Liked Black Widow. Really liked Shang-Chi.
I watched Shang-Chi for a second time on the + and there is a hard line between where I love the movie and then I dislike it. It was so awesome right up until the end of the 2nd big set piece. After that, eh.
Yeah, I saw Black Widow recently too. And I have to say, the supporting cast MADE the movie, it felt like a real movie with a Black Widow cartoon of a character slapped on top of it, with all the grand CGI nonsense that it includes. Less floating cloud lairs and more dialogue and character development would have made the movie better for me.
Also, the whole pheromones that stop your hand mid-strike like a force field, but dont affect your mind state in any other way, and the chemical control that can be stopped by sprinkling pixie dust on the black widows, that is all so dumb, there were a million ways to get to that result with non-dumb means, and the MCU has even done it before with Bucky, Black Widow would have been a great movie if Black Widow wasnt in it.
That's basically Eternals. It's got most of the core Justice League hero templates plus a couple. Opinions on it are pretty mixed but I enjoyed it. Had it been the Justice League, replacing the "here's what happened over the past 10,000 years" flashbacks with "here's how these superheroes came together" flashbacks, I think it'd work. Probably better since you have the free prep work done by Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, and Flash all being (at least somewhat) familiar characters in the public consciousness.
No Way Home speculation:
Stabilizing reality requires sending everyone back to their home reality, which, for all those villains, means they die. Peter doesn't like that and tries to find another way.
Pugh was the MVP of the movie though. She was so fun and I look forward to what they have planned for her in the future. I am sad to see Scarlet gone from the MCU though. Loved her Black Widow.
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This would require people in Hollywood to have original ideas :P
As for the rest, I'm still really unsure if the spell even worked. It's super obvious it DIDN'T work on MJ and Ned because they're both there for most of the trailer. But it feels weird to me that Peter's little interruptions would actually be acknowledged by the spell (like the spell saying "Ok, you want MJ to remember...") and kinda makes me suspect maybe it just didn't work at all beyond also ripping a hole in the multiverse :P
I liked it quite a bit as well.
edit: further meta discussion - they're absolutely not going to have iron man give his life to save spider-man's and then just kill peter.
non spoilery theory aside, I think Holland's statement is completely reasonable.
I honestly suspect this is just shit for Morbius tho.