The US legal system and prison system is very broken. It's inhumane and cruel and racist and classist
Largely rich white supremacist WASPs should not be the first people to enjoy a kinder gentler system focused on rehabilitation and reintroduction into society
And once again demonstrating the uselessness of the anti-carceral movement as a practical concern, we have Ken White chiding people cheering that someone who tried to overthrow the government got real time in jail:
(The anti-carceral movement is one of those things that I find noble in theory, but obnoxious in practice, in large part because I don't see the QAnon Shaman getting 3 1/2 years as a travesty of justice.)
He's correct though. People wanting harsher and longer sentences for people who broke is exactly the impulse that has lead to the US prison state.
And really the main solution to the size of the US prison population would be shorter sentences.
Treating any violation of the law as equivalent is silly, though. I can simultaneously believe that sentencing guidelines for crack cocaine are too long and that sentencing guidelines for an armed coup are too short without needing any kind of cognitive dissonance. They are different kinds of offenses, not different degrees rolled up under the umbrella of 'breaking the law'.
Also the actual problem is that a lot of "offenses" leading to enormous sentences are the kind of spiteful bullshit that shouldn't result in prison terms in the first place, like looking at a joint in the wrong state or being a student in an area where the local judge has made arrangements with the local private prison to imprison seventh graders who talk back to their teachers.
Equating those with the actions of people who attempted a putsch is breathtakingly absurd.
And once again demonstrating the uselessness of the anti-carceral movement as a practical concern, we have Ken White chiding people cheering that someone who tried to overthrow the government got real time in jail:
(The anti-carceral movement is one of those things that I find noble in theory, but obnoxious in practice, in large part because I don't see the QAnon Shaman getting 3 1/2 years as a travesty of justice.)
He's correct though. People wanting harsher and longer sentences for people who broke is exactly the impulse that has lead to the US prison state.
And really the main solution to the size of the US prison population would be shorter sentences.
Treating any violation of the law as equivalent is silly, though. I can simultaneously believe that sentencing guidelines for crack cocaine are too long and that sentencing guidelines for an armed coup are too short without needing any kind of cognitive dissonance. They are different kinds of offenses, not different degrees rolled up under the umbrella of 'breaking the law'.
I mostly agree. But it being a tweet, who the fuck knows whether he's talking specifically about this crime or just about the general impulse toward punishment. I think it can both be true that these people should be getting longer sentences because this was a very serious crime and also that the general desire for harsher punishment for crimes is how the US system ended up where it did.
Also the actual problem is that a lot of "offenses" leading to enormous sentences are the kind of spiteful bullshit that shouldn't result in prison terms in the first place, like looking at a joint in the wrong state or being a student in an area where the local judge has made arrangements with the local private prison to imprison seventh graders who talk back to their teachers.
Slightly off topic now but this is not correct. Most of the people with the long sentences are there for violent offences and held at the state-level.
0
ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
I won't lie, I hope these traitors go to jail. I'm also more than a little anxious that they'll be further radicalized in prison with white supremacist gangs, and then they'll be released just in time to do the whole thing again after the next election
They are also likely to radicalize others: for instance white supremacists who have not realized that many in the mainstream Republican party agree with them.
They are more likely and already are radicalizing others as they push their bullshit conspiracy theories in the streets and on the internet. At least in prison their audience is limited.
Here’s the thing with Peisistratos. Peisistratos was leader of a populist party in Athens.
Peistratos first seized the Acropolis in Athens with support of a mob and declared himself tyrant. After a short time (sources vary on whether this was a few months or a few years after seizing power), Peistratos was overthrown by the efforts of the other two parties (athens was a 3 party system at the time). Because he was still quite influential, he was allowed to retire to the country with no punishment other than a ban from politics in Athens.
A few years later Peistratos joined with another prominent Athens politician and got a mob together to march on Athens again. This time a big mob marched on the acropolis in a big show, including a lady dressed as Athena pronouncing Peistratos king. Unfortunately shortly after Peistratos essentially reneged on marrying his ally’s daughter, and his ally turned on him and with the help of the opposition had him removed from office. Once again Peisistratos was sent back to his country villa with a warning not to take part in Athenian politics again.
Through the next ten years Peisistratos built up money from his mining business and estates, hired some mercenaries, and attacked the city of Athens once again. This time he had a military with him, and the Athenians couldn’t kick him out. Through whatever means he neutralized the other parties (sources differ over whether he had them killed or whether they just bought into his reign and went home) and reigned the rest of his life.
What is the lesson here?
Don’t fucking give people multiple at-bats to overthrow your government.
I mean I'm generally opposed to the death penalty and still feel that one of the bigger mistakes our nation made was not hanging every Confederate leader for treason after they lost the Civil War.
Maybe that's cognitive dissonance or double standards, but not all things are the same.
I mean I'm generally opposed to the death penalty and still feel that one of the bigger mistakes our nation made was not hanging every Confederate leader for treason after they lost the Civil War.
Maybe that's cognitive dissonance or double standards, but not all things are the same.
As the saying goes, "foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
And once again demonstrating the uselessness of the anti-carceral movement as a practical concern, we have Ken White chiding people cheering that someone who tried to overthrow the government got real time in jail:
(The anti-carceral movement is one of those things that I find noble in theory, but obnoxious in practice, in large part because I don't see the QAnon Shaman getting 3 1/2 years as a travesty of justice.)
He's correct though. People wanting harsher and longer sentences for people who broke is exactly the impulse that has lead to the US prison state. (snip)
This is off-topic, but I thought it was because of 1) Racism 2) needing cheap slave labor after slavery was abolished 3) private prison profits 4) Racism.
And once again demonstrating the uselessness of the anti-carceral movement as a practical concern, we have Ken White chiding people cheering that someone who tried to overthrow the government got real time in jail:
(The anti-carceral movement is one of those things that I find noble in theory, but obnoxious in practice, in large part because I don't see the QAnon Shaman getting 3 1/2 years as a travesty of justice.)
He's correct though. People wanting harsher and longer sentences for people who broke is exactly the impulse that has lead to the US prison state. (snip)
This is off-topic, but I thought it was because of 1) Racism 2) needing cheap slave labor after slavery was abolished 3) private prison profits 4) Racism.
Not really. The explosion in the size of the US prison population mostly traces it's roots back to the 70s and 80s and in large part seems to be the result of harsher sentencing in various ways. Though this obviously disproportionately effects black people (and to a lesser extent other minorities) because what doesn't in america.
This is the appalling chart you wanna start with:
I would bet you could probably link this most strongly to the 70s crime wave and the reactions to it.
My feelings on sentences and cash bail are that yes, both should be reduced, but reduced or not they should be *equally enforced.*
Insurrectionists get light sentences and the guy selling single cigarettes getting a lighter sentence is both fair and equal.
Cigarette guy getting a heavy sentence and the insurrectionist getting a slightly heavier sentence is not fair, but is equal.
Insurrectionist gets light sentence and the cig guy gets heavy sentence is the worst case scenario.
I want fairness for all, but I will prefer equal unfairness over the unequal distribution of fairness.
And if somebody wants to spin this as the beginning of fairness: White people getting to vote wasn't the beginning of everybody getting to vote, equality has to start with an unequal party or it's just the original inequality continuing.
tl;dr: In the absence of weather control reap the whirlwind motherfuckers.
A lot of leftists/liberals are against the capitol rioters getting long prison sentences, and I find it insincere. They aren't taking into account the fact that they'd have got a lot harsher sentences had they done the same thing from a left-wing point of view.
Yeah, I’ll cop to being somewhat (I emphasize somewhat) on team fig leaf out of concern for them weaponizing these prison sentences and possibly going for their own so called “political prisoners” for a little bit there, but I was extremely wrong and not thinking straight at the time, they’ll find reasons get super extremist these days no matter what. My bad.
Edit: It is heartening to see some actual arrests and prison time. I’m glad to see that overly forgiving viewpoint isn’t totally winning out.
A lot of leftists/liberals are against the capitol rioters getting long prison sentences, and I find it insincere. They aren't taking into account the fact that they'd have got a lot harsher sentences had they done the same thing from a left-wing point of view.
Yeah, I’ll cop to being somewhat (I emphasize somewhat) on team fig leaf out of concern for them weaponizing these prison sentences and possibly going for their own so called “political prisoners” for a little bit there, but I was extremely wrong and not thinking straight at the time, they’ll find reasons get super extremist these days no matter what. My bad.
Edit: It is heartening to see some actual arrests and prison time. I’m glad to see that overly forgiving viewpoint isn’t totally winning out.
The thing to remember is that you can't deny ammunition to a bullet factory. Their whole system is built on grievance, so they will make one out of anything (or nothing.)
Yeah. Remember, we're talking about people who are defining "you're not allowed to demand people be killed en masse" as political persecution. There's no good faith there.
And once again demonstrating the uselessness of the anti-carceral movement as a practical concern, we have Ken White chiding people cheering that someone who tried to overthrow the government got real time in jail:
(The anti-carceral movement is one of those things that I find noble in theory, but obnoxious in practice, in large part because I don't see the QAnon Shaman getting 3 1/2 years as a travesty of justice.)
He's correct though. People wanting harsher and longer sentences for people who broke is exactly the impulse that has lead to the US prison state. (snip)
This is off-topic, but I thought it was because of 1) Racism 2) needing cheap slave labor after slavery was abolished 3) private prison profits 4) Racism.
Not really. The explosion in the size of the US prison population mostly traces it's roots back to the 70s and 80s and in large part seems to be the result of harsher sentencing in various ways. Though this obviously disproportionately effects black people (and to a lesser extent other minorities) because what doesn't in america.
This is the appalling chart you wanna start with:
I would bet you could probably link this most strongly to the 70s crime wave and the reactions to it.
Leaded gasoline man
+13
Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
It's my understanding that the state party actually has complete 100% control of their nomination process?
They just decided to do either primaries or caucasus ~50 years ago due to momentum and historical procedure have never changed.
My searching around yielded lots of information about who could vote in a primary, but not who could be nominated. My assumption was that the state party controlled the nomination process (if only by funding), but that a petition could be used to put forward a candidate in the general.
If someone has more knowledge about it I’ll concede the point.
The state party doesn't control jack. Whether in a caucus or a primary, anyone can run for office. Well, impeachment can prevent that, but that's irrelevant in this case. Candidates have to campaign for the nomination with their own resources (no matching funds there), so there's no mechanism for the state party to have any formal influence there. The most that county chairs and the like can do, is make their own endorsements and attempt to influence the pre-campaign shuffle of who gets staffers. The former vice president's daughter has plenty of connections to pay for her renomination campaign, and recruit good people to run it.
It's still weird that apparently anyone, even people explicitly kicked out of the party and declared persona non grata, can choose to run as a Republican.
Not strange that they can run, but that they can run specifically under the Republican header. Seems like a violation of freedom of association to me, but of course I am not a lawyer.
Yeah, kinda surprised that Republicans haven't weaponized it yet.
Get some people to run in Democratic primaries to just fuck things up and maybe make an incumbent lose. Don't need to win, just need to muddle shit up enough to force them to invest resources into who is the "real" candidate.
That happened in Florida.
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
On Cheney, not sure what rules Wyoming has regarding party selection of candidates. If they can switch between primary or convention, expect them to pick which ever one they believe will lessen her chances of getting through the primary.
On the anti-carceral movement. I'm not sure if they are demonstrating why sloth was a deadly sin because their is some opposition to a more in depth sentencing process. Not all crimes are equal, thus some warrant much more severe punishments than others. If they are falling victim to being too emotional and kind of missing why "tough on crime" is a problem. Unreasonable sentences are result of people giving into their shittier emotional reactions and wanting to show the law breakers. Granted, there is also a fair bit of "this person is a criminal, so I should have full lesson to be absolute fucking shit them!" Could be both. Anyways, they are wrong, shit like treason should have harsher sentences than most other crimes because you don't want people to think they can just keep rolling the dice on their coup d'états until they get the result they want. You want them to be scared shitless at making the attempt and the sentences to reinforce that it's a bad fucking idea. Also a big galling that they don't get that the other side wouldn't be fair or forgiving to radical leftist that tried the same stunt. I doubt we'd be in a situation where they could wring their hands over someone getting 4 years because I'm pretty sure the right would be pushing for the death penalty.
No good representative will ever come from Wyoming. The remotest and best bet is a person that votes for a dem house leader and then does what little a house member can to impede every dem bill anyway.
This all just increases the odds of making the house 1/435 more violently insane
Wyoming had a democratic governor when I was growing up and now... This.
the US carceral state is a result of people wanting to punish criminals as much as possible. that's really all it is, good ol fashion puritan morals.
it's no surprise that a lot of the failed rehabilitation and re-entry programs have the fingerprints of the religious right all over them. take the galaxy brains that lead to things like abstinence only education and "just say no" and apply it to prison and post release
Jars on
+9
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited November 2021
This country has never ever been lenient to those who form a mob that chants to hang another person, nope never. That sort of leniency is not in fact a symptom of the inequality our criminal justice system finds endemic. We don't even have a word for that kind of mob, or that kind of violence.
This country has never ever been lenient to those who form a mob that chants to hang another person, nope never. That sort of leniency is not in fact a symptom of the inequality our criminal justice system finds eneemic. We don't even have a word for that kind of mob, or that kind of violence.
This country has never ever been lenient to those who form a mob that chants to hang another person, nope never. That sort of leniency is not in fact a symptom of the inequality our criminal justice system finds eneemic. We don't even have a word for that kind of mob, or that kind of violence.
Do you mind if i steal this Fencingsax ?
Sure!
Although the 2nd e in endemic should be a d, before you copy paste
These are not one-off incidents. Surveys have found that 17 percent of America’s local election officials and nearly 12 percent of its public health workforce have been threatened due to their jobs during the 2020 election cycle and Covid-19 pandemic. While none of the threats against public servants appear to have led to deadly violence yet, the volume has gotten severe enough that the Justice Department created two separate initiatives to help combat threats against election administrators and education workers (board members, teachers, administrators, and other school staff).
“It’s not even accurate to say [threatening election workers] was rare prior to 2020. It was so rare as to be virtually nonexistent,” said David Becker, executive director of the Center for Election Innovation & Research. “This is beyond anything that we’ve ever seen.”
The new wave of threats is cresting on one side of the partisan divide. Generally, the individuals responsible seem to believe former President Donald Trump’s fraudulent claims about the 2020 election, oppose Covid-19 vaccines and masks, and claim schools are indoctrinating their kids with “critical race theory.”
...
The reporting and survey data on these threats against public servants consistently cite social media platforms as a source of the problem. Fifty-four percent of election workers in the Brennan survey, for instance, agreed that social media had made their jobs either “a lot” or “somewhat” more dangerous.
There are a few reasons to think social media might be facilitating the current wave of death threats.
One is the ease of communication that social media allows: When you can contact your local public health official on Twitter and Facebook, it’s logistically easier and less risky to deliver death threats than it may have been in the past.
Another is that it makes it easier for harassers to coordinate or follow an instigator’s lead: Jenkins, for example, received a renewed surge of threats after a Republican state lawmaker posted her cellphone number to his Facebook page.
...
Trump and his allies are, in essence, singlehandedly responsible for convincing many Americans that the 2020 election was stolen and that election administrators were part of a vast conspiracy to rig the vote against the former president. Fox News and Republican politicians have been among the driving forces behind misinformation about vaccines and anti-mask hysteria. And many of the organizations behind the revolt against critical race theory were founded by conservative activists and funded by right-wing dark-money groups.
This is a good article on the ongoing damage that the rhetoric and actions that lead to the coup are doing to our democratic system. The vilification of public servants, both elected and unelected, is on the rise. Many are volunteers or just people working for something they care about. And we are lucky it hasn't lead to dead health workers, teachers, school board members, or election officials yet. And sadly I expect we will as this movement continues.
These are not one-off incidents. Surveys have found that 17 percent of America’s local election officials and nearly 12 percent of its public health workforce have been threatened due to their jobs during the 2020 election cycle and Covid-19 pandemic. While none of the threats against public servants appear to have led to deadly violence yet, the volume has gotten severe enough that the Justice Department created two separate initiatives to help combat threats against election administrators and education workers (board members, teachers, administrators, and other school staff).
“It’s not even accurate to say [threatening election workers] was rare prior to 2020. It was so rare as to be virtually nonexistent,” said David Becker, executive director of the Center for Election Innovation & Research. “This is beyond anything that we’ve ever seen.”
The new wave of threats is cresting on one side of the partisan divide. Generally, the individuals responsible seem to believe former President Donald Trump’s fraudulent claims about the 2020 election, oppose Covid-19 vaccines and masks, and claim schools are indoctrinating their kids with “critical race theory.”
...
The reporting and survey data on these threats against public servants consistently cite social media platforms as a source of the problem. Fifty-four percent of election workers in the Brennan survey, for instance, agreed that social media had made their jobs either “a lot” or “somewhat” more dangerous.
There are a few reasons to think social media might be facilitating the current wave of death threats.
One is the ease of communication that social media allows: When you can contact your local public health official on Twitter and Facebook, it’s logistically easier and less risky to deliver death threats than it may have been in the past.
Another is that it makes it easier for harassers to coordinate or follow an instigator’s lead: Jenkins, for example, received a renewed surge of threats after a Republican state lawmaker posted her cellphone number to his Facebook page.
...
Trump and his allies are, in essence, singlehandedly responsible for convincing many Americans that the 2020 election was stolen and that election administrators were part of a vast conspiracy to rig the vote against the former president. Fox News and Republican politicians have been among the driving forces behind misinformation about vaccines and anti-mask hysteria. And many of the organizations behind the revolt against critical race theory were founded by conservative activists and funded by right-wing dark-money groups.
This is a good article on the ongoing damage that the rhetoric and actions that lead to the coup are doing to our democratic system. The vilification of public servants, both elected and unelected, is on the rise. Many are volunteers or just people working for something they care about. And we are lucky it hasn't lead to dead health workers, teachers, school board members, or election officials yet. And sadly I expect we will as this movement continues.
Pretty sure we'd already had dead health care workers well before the coup attempt.
These are not one-off incidents. Surveys have found that 17 percent of America’s local election officials and nearly 12 percent of its public health workforce have been threatened due to their jobs during the 2020 election cycle and Covid-19 pandemic. While none of the threats against public servants appear to have led to deadly violence yet, the volume has gotten severe enough that the Justice Department created two separate initiatives to help combat threats against election administrators and education workers (board members, teachers, administrators, and other school staff).
“It’s not even accurate to say [threatening election workers] was rare prior to 2020. It was so rare as to be virtually nonexistent,” said David Becker, executive director of the Center for Election Innovation & Research. “This is beyond anything that we’ve ever seen.”
The new wave of threats is cresting on one side of the partisan divide. Generally, the individuals responsible seem to believe former President Donald Trump’s fraudulent claims about the 2020 election, oppose Covid-19 vaccines and masks, and claim schools are indoctrinating their kids with “critical race theory.”
...
The reporting and survey data on these threats against public servants consistently cite social media platforms as a source of the problem. Fifty-four percent of election workers in the Brennan survey, for instance, agreed that social media had made their jobs either “a lot” or “somewhat” more dangerous.
There are a few reasons to think social media might be facilitating the current wave of death threats.
One is the ease of communication that social media allows: When you can contact your local public health official on Twitter and Facebook, it’s logistically easier and less risky to deliver death threats than it may have been in the past.
Another is that it makes it easier for harassers to coordinate or follow an instigator’s lead: Jenkins, for example, received a renewed surge of threats after a Republican state lawmaker posted her cellphone number to his Facebook page.
...
Trump and his allies are, in essence, singlehandedly responsible for convincing many Americans that the 2020 election was stolen and that election administrators were part of a vast conspiracy to rig the vote against the former president. Fox News and Republican politicians have been among the driving forces behind misinformation about vaccines and anti-mask hysteria. And many of the organizations behind the revolt against critical race theory were founded by conservative activists and funded by right-wing dark-money groups.
This is a good article on the ongoing damage that the rhetoric and actions that lead to the coup are doing to our democratic system. The vilification of public servants, both elected and unelected, is on the rise. Many are volunteers or just people working for something they care about. And we are lucky it hasn't lead to dead health workers, teachers, school board members, or election officials yet. And sadly I expect we will as this movement continues.
The thing most concerning, is that it's forcing resignations (which is understandable), and that the fascists are trying to actively recruit sympathetic people to those positions.
As usual, it's just a time delayed projection. There's simply no way I trust that the next election in some areas will be free and fair. They're actively working to make sure it's not. And the fascists will just point to 2020 and claim that this is just the other side crying foul now that it came out the other way.
It happened in media, it happened in law enforcement (though arguably it was always bad there), it's happening in school boards, it's happening in election boards. And with noone really being held accountable, and with fully half the legislative leaders being on board (see Gosar censure vote), at this point, I don't think it's possible to unfuck things.
These are not one-off incidents. Surveys have found that 17 percent of America’s local election officials and nearly 12 percent of its public health workforce have been threatened due to their jobs during the 2020 election cycle and Covid-19 pandemic. While none of the threats against public servants appear to have led to deadly violence yet, the volume has gotten severe enough that the Justice Department created two separate initiatives to help combat threats against election administrators and education workers (board members, teachers, administrators, and other school staff).
“It’s not even accurate to say [threatening election workers] was rare prior to 2020. It was so rare as to be virtually nonexistent,” said David Becker, executive director of the Center for Election Innovation & Research. “This is beyond anything that we’ve ever seen.”
The new wave of threats is cresting on one side of the partisan divide. Generally, the individuals responsible seem to believe former President Donald Trump’s fraudulent claims about the 2020 election, oppose Covid-19 vaccines and masks, and claim schools are indoctrinating their kids with “critical race theory.”
...
The reporting and survey data on these threats against public servants consistently cite social media platforms as a source of the problem. Fifty-four percent of election workers in the Brennan survey, for instance, agreed that social media had made their jobs either “a lot” or “somewhat” more dangerous.
There are a few reasons to think social media might be facilitating the current wave of death threats.
One is the ease of communication that social media allows: When you can contact your local public health official on Twitter and Facebook, it’s logistically easier and less risky to deliver death threats than it may have been in the past.
Another is that it makes it easier for harassers to coordinate or follow an instigator’s lead: Jenkins, for example, received a renewed surge of threats after a Republican state lawmaker posted her cellphone number to his Facebook page.
...
Trump and his allies are, in essence, singlehandedly responsible for convincing many Americans that the 2020 election was stolen and that election administrators were part of a vast conspiracy to rig the vote against the former president. Fox News and Republican politicians have been among the driving forces behind misinformation about vaccines and anti-mask hysteria. And many of the organizations behind the revolt against critical race theory were founded by conservative activists and funded by right-wing dark-money groups.
This is a good article on the ongoing damage that the rhetoric and actions that lead to the coup are doing to our democratic system. The vilification of public servants, both elected and unelected, is on the rise. Many are volunteers or just people working for something they care about. And we are lucky it hasn't lead to dead health workers, teachers, school board members, or election officials yet. And sadly I expect we will as this movement continues.
Pretty sure we'd already had dead health care workers well before the coup attempt.
And census workers, though that's been a thing almost every decade having the president instigating it was new.
"The attorney for Jacob Chansley, a.k.a. the ‘QAnon Shaman,’ said Trump needs to take care of the ‘jackasses that [he] f*cked up because of January 6’"
- Now This News is a progressive social media site.
I honestly don't know what to make of this. If he's playing 4D chess, or if he's just the dumbest motherfucker lawyer since Rudy and Sidney got in the shit.
I can't imagine being on a jury and taking anything this guy says seriously.
But then again, I can't see how anyone takes Trump seriously either, and 10's of millions of Americans do, so I'm not that good a barometer on this kind of thing.
"The attorney for Jacob Chansley, a.k.a. the ‘QAnon Shaman,’ said Trump needs to take care of the ‘jackasses that [he] f*cked up because of January 6’"
- Now This News is a progressive social media site.
I honestly don't know what to make of this. If he's playing 4D chess, or if he's just the dumbest motherfucker lawyer since Rudy and Sidney got in the shit.
I can't imagine being on a jury and taking anything this guy says seriously.
But then again, I can't see how anyone takes Trump seriously either, and 10's of millions of Americans do, so I'm not that good a barometer on this kind of thing.
I'm not sure what's a I dumb about his answer? He's correctly pointed out that Trump is responsible for inciting the coup. It's wrapped in some folksy nonsense about having a bear with him or whatever sure. Also obviously Trump doesn't give a shit about his supporters.
While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
"The attorney for Jacob Chansley, a.k.a. the ‘QAnon Shaman,’ said Trump needs to take care of the ‘jackasses that [he] f*cked up because of January 6’"
- Now This News is a progressive social media site.
I honestly don't know what to make of this. If he's playing 4D chess, or if he's just the dumbest motherfucker lawyer since Rudy and Sidney got in the shit.
I can't imagine being on a jury and taking anything this guy says seriously.
But then again, I can't see how anyone takes Trump seriously either, and 10's of millions of Americans do, so I'm not that good a barometer on this kind of thing.
I'm not sure what's a I dumb about his answer? He's correctly pointed out that Trump is responsible for inciting the coup. It's wrapped in some folksy nonsense about having a bear with him or whatever sure. Also obviously Trump doesn't give a shit about his supporters.
Oh. I read that as the god king needs to stop this farce and reclaim his rightful position so he can pardon all of them.
"The attorney for Jacob Chansley, a.k.a. the ‘QAnon Shaman,’ said Trump needs to take care of the ‘jackasses that [he] f*cked up because of January 6’"
- Now This News is a progressive social media site.
I honestly don't know what to make of this. If he's playing 4D chess, or if he's just the dumbest motherfucker lawyer since Rudy and Sidney got in the shit.
I can't imagine being on a jury and taking anything this guy says seriously.
But then again, I can't see how anyone takes Trump seriously either, and 10's of millions of Americans do, so I'm not that good a barometer on this kind of thing.
I'm not sure what's a I dumb about his answer? He's correctly pointed out that Trump is responsible for inciting the coup. It's wrapped in some folksy nonsense about having a bear with him or whatever sure. Also obviously Trump doesn't give a shit about his supporters.
Was more related to my later points (re not being able to take this guy seriously), more than anything, and how it might help his client in any meaningful way.
I dunno. Maybe I just expect more from people in certain professions. Doctors, judges, politicians, law enforcement, and lawyers (that aren't ambulance chasers).
I'm constantly disappointed.
ADDIT- Apparently this isn't the only time he's been "indelicate".
Watkins, the “Q Shaman” Jacob Chansley’s attorney, said his client had Asperger’s syndrome and indicated that Chansley’s mental state — and the impact of Trump’s “propaganda” efforts — would play a role in his case.
“A lot of these defendants — and I’m going to use this colloquial term, perhaps disrespectfully — but they’re all fucking short-bus people,” Watkins told TPM. “These are people with brain damage, they’re fucking retarded, they’re on the goddamn spectrum.”
“But they’re our brothers, our sisters, our neighbors, our coworkers — they’re part of our country. These aren’t bad people, they don’t have prior criminal history. Fuck, they were subjected to four-plus years of goddamn propaganda the likes of which the world has not seen since fucking Hitler.”
Posts
Largely rich white supremacist WASPs should not be the first people to enjoy a kinder gentler system focused on rehabilitation and reintroduction into society
Treating any violation of the law as equivalent is silly, though. I can simultaneously believe that sentencing guidelines for crack cocaine are too long and that sentencing guidelines for an armed coup are too short without needing any kind of cognitive dissonance. They are different kinds of offenses, not different degrees rolled up under the umbrella of 'breaking the law'.
Equating those with the actions of people who attempted a putsch is breathtakingly absurd.
I mostly agree. But it being a tweet, who the fuck knows whether he's talking specifically about this crime or just about the general impulse toward punishment. I think it can both be true that these people should be getting longer sentences because this was a very serious crime and also that the general desire for harsher punishment for crimes is how the US system ended up where it did.
In summary twitter hottakes are bad.
Slightly off topic now but this is not correct. Most of the people with the long sentences are there for violent offences and held at the state-level.
They are more likely and already are radicalizing others as they push their bullshit conspiracy theories in the streets and on the internet. At least in prison their audience is limited.
I read an article a while back I can’t find anymore which compared Trump to Peisistratos:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peisistratos
Here’s the thing with Peisistratos. Peisistratos was leader of a populist party in Athens.
Peistratos first seized the Acropolis in Athens with support of a mob and declared himself tyrant. After a short time (sources vary on whether this was a few months or a few years after seizing power), Peistratos was overthrown by the efforts of the other two parties (athens was a 3 party system at the time). Because he was still quite influential, he was allowed to retire to the country with no punishment other than a ban from politics in Athens.
A few years later Peistratos joined with another prominent Athens politician and got a mob together to march on Athens again. This time a big mob marched on the acropolis in a big show, including a lady dressed as Athena pronouncing Peistratos king. Unfortunately shortly after Peistratos essentially reneged on marrying his ally’s daughter, and his ally turned on him and with the help of the opposition had him removed from office. Once again Peisistratos was sent back to his country villa with a warning not to take part in Athenian politics again.
Through the next ten years Peisistratos built up money from his mining business and estates, hired some mercenaries, and attacked the city of Athens once again. This time he had a military with him, and the Athenians couldn’t kick him out. Through whatever means he neutralized the other parties (sources differ over whether he had them killed or whether they just bought into his reign and went home) and reigned the rest of his life.
What is the lesson here?
Don’t fucking give people multiple at-bats to overthrow your government.
Maybe that's cognitive dissonance or double standards, but not all things are the same.
As the saying goes, "foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
:rotate:
Not really. The explosion in the size of the US prison population mostly traces it's roots back to the 70s and 80s and in large part seems to be the result of harsher sentencing in various ways. Though this obviously disproportionately effects black people (and to a lesser extent other minorities) because what doesn't in america.
This is the appalling chart you wanna start with:
I would bet you could probably link this most strongly to the 70s crime wave and the reactions to it.
Insurrectionists get light sentences and the guy selling single cigarettes getting a lighter sentence is both fair and equal.
Cigarette guy getting a heavy sentence and the insurrectionist getting a slightly heavier sentence is not fair, but is equal.
Insurrectionist gets light sentence and the cig guy gets heavy sentence is the worst case scenario.
I want fairness for all, but I will prefer equal unfairness over the unequal distribution of fairness.
And if somebody wants to spin this as the beginning of fairness: White people getting to vote wasn't the beginning of everybody getting to vote, equality has to start with an unequal party or it's just the original inequality continuing.
tl;dr: In the absence of weather control reap the whirlwind motherfuckers.
Edit: It is heartening to see some actual arrests and prison time. I’m glad to see that overly forgiving viewpoint isn’t totally winning out.
The thing to remember is that you can't deny ammunition to a bullet factory. Their whole system is built on grievance, so they will make one out of anything (or nothing.)
Leaded gasoline man
That happened in Florida.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
On the anti-carceral movement. I'm not sure if they are demonstrating why sloth was a deadly sin because their is some opposition to a more in depth sentencing process. Not all crimes are equal, thus some warrant much more severe punishments than others. If they are falling victim to being too emotional and kind of missing why "tough on crime" is a problem. Unreasonable sentences are result of people giving into their shittier emotional reactions and wanting to show the law breakers. Granted, there is also a fair bit of "this person is a criminal, so I should have full lesson to be absolute fucking shit them!" Could be both. Anyways, they are wrong, shit like treason should have harsher sentences than most other crimes because you don't want people to think they can just keep rolling the dice on their coup d'états until they get the result they want. You want them to be scared shitless at making the attempt and the sentences to reinforce that it's a bad fucking idea. Also a big galling that they don't get that the other side wouldn't be fair or forgiving to radical leftist that tried the same stunt. I doubt we'd be in a situation where they could wring their hands over someone getting 4 years because I'm pretty sure the right would be pushing for the death penalty.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
Side note: Autogolpe is German for “refreshing beverage you enjoy in your car”
i.e. “Passen mein autogolpe, I need to sippen.”
Wyoming had a democratic governor when I was growing up and now... This.
it's no surprise that a lot of the failed rehabilitation and re-entry programs have the fingerprints of the religious right all over them. take the galaxy brains that lead to things like abstinence only education and "just say no" and apply it to prison and post release
Do you mind if i steal this @Fencingsax ?
This is pretty close, I think in spanish it ends up sounding like “out-o-goal-pay” but even that probably depends a lot on accent.
Sure!
Although the 2nd e in endemic should be a d, before you copy paste
This is a good article on the ongoing damage that the rhetoric and actions that lead to the coup are doing to our democratic system. The vilification of public servants, both elected and unelected, is on the rise. Many are volunteers or just people working for something they care about. And we are lucky it hasn't lead to dead health workers, teachers, school board members, or election officials yet. And sadly I expect we will as this movement continues.
Pretty sure we'd already had dead health care workers well before the coup attempt.
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
The thing most concerning, is that it's forcing resignations (which is understandable), and that the fascists are trying to actively recruit sympathetic people to those positions.
As usual, it's just a time delayed projection. There's simply no way I trust that the next election in some areas will be free and fair. They're actively working to make sure it's not. And the fascists will just point to 2020 and claim that this is just the other side crying foul now that it came out the other way.
It happened in media, it happened in law enforcement (though arguably it was always bad there), it's happening in school boards, it's happening in election boards. And with noone really being held accountable, and with fully half the legislative leaders being on board (see Gosar censure vote), at this point, I don't think it's possible to unfuck things.
And census workers, though that's been a thing almost every decade having the president instigating it was new.
"The attorney for Jacob Chansley, a.k.a. the ‘QAnon Shaman,’ said Trump needs to take care of the ‘jackasses that [he] f*cked up because of January 6’"
- Now This News is a progressive social media site.
I honestly don't know what to make of this. If he's playing 4D chess, or if he's just the dumbest motherfucker lawyer since Rudy and Sidney got in the shit.
I can't imagine being on a jury and taking anything this guy says seriously.
But then again, I can't see how anyone takes Trump seriously either, and 10's of millions of Americans do, so I'm not that good a barometer on this kind of thing.
I'm not sure what's a I dumb about his answer? He's correctly pointed out that Trump is responsible for inciting the coup. It's wrapped in some folksy nonsense about having a bear with him or whatever sure. Also obviously Trump doesn't give a shit about his supporters.
but they have been garbage on nearly every front thus far so insanity and violence will win again!
Oh. I read that as the god king needs to stop this farce and reclaim his rightful position so he can pardon all of them.
Was more related to my later points (re not being able to take this guy seriously), more than anything, and how it might help his client in any meaningful way.
I dunno. Maybe I just expect more from people in certain professions. Doctors, judges, politicians, law enforcement, and lawyers (that aren't ambulance chasers).
I'm constantly disappointed.
ADDIT- Apparently this isn't the only time he's been "indelicate".
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/capitol-rioters-trump-defense-comes-up-again-and-again-will-it-make-a-difference
From May 18th, 2021.
Does Biden and/or Garland control what the FBI does?