That last episode was just all over the place. I was kind of like Quantum Leap, but in their own lives. Then, they had characters replacing other characters.
This guy (a script editor) does a Twitter thread on each episode and he's summed up a lot of my issues with the last episode, as well as issues with Chibnall's seeming inability to actually put together a coherent story. It's a long thread and it's from a writerly point of view (why this when this would be better), but he's not wrong.
SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
At the very start of the episode I thought "oh neat, this is setting up the main thrust of this story"
ie, the Doc running down her gang scattered across all of history, running into them in the wrong order and having a bit of fun pulp fiction/bill & ted this isn't quite right but you'll get the hang of it and we'll come back at this scene in 2 episodes time from the other end hijinx. But apparently not, no none of that, this bit's all wrapped up by the end and we've gone basically nowhere for 50min
Definitely back to a shrug after a pretty solid ep 2
This guy (a script editor) does a Twitter thread on each episode and he's summed up a lot of my issues with the last episode, as well as issues with Chibnall's seeming inability to actually put together a coherent story. It's a long thread and it's from a writerly point of view (why this when this would be better), but he's not wrong.
I don't really buy into his problems with numbers (frankly "1 second left on the bomb's clock" is a lame trope to begin with; it's no longer dramatic when everyone does it, and having even a minute left is better for suspension of disbelief and just as effective for drama), but yeah, almost everything about this episode was "Here's what I need you to know as set-up for the myth arc" without actually having a problem or a resolution convincingly explained or understood on screen.
I think the idea of a season where "Time, Itself, Is Fucked" is a good one, especially if it allows you to do not-technically-a-parallel-universe stuff like having the Sontarans replace Russia in the Crimean War. But I agree with the tweeter's general point that the set-up for that idea probably didn't need to be this complicated.
I think Chibnall is genuinely unable to run a ship that puts together Doctor Who stories in a consistent manner. The job is simply beyond him.
I remember being very concerned when he was first announced as show runner because even when he was just contributing individual episodes they just weren’t that good.
42? I literally don’t remember the whole story.
Season 5 Silurian two parter always felt rushed and repurposed; like it was very clearly written for Tennant because Matt Smith suddenly acted like him.
Dinosaurs on a Spaceship introduced Brian, who was great. But the story resolution was poor, the extraneous historical companions is still an issue I have with his modern day writing, and the Doctor again acting out of character.
The Power of 3 is one of the worst story resolutions to a modern Who episode; literal wave the sonic and we win. Also the exact same issue that ruined a promising script in Can You Hear Me, also written by Chibnall.
"Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination."
This "Time is magic" thing they are doing is kind of annoying. Time is controlled by a temple that flows it through these people on a construct of some sort.
This "Time is magic" thing they are doing is kind of annoying. Time is controlled by a temple that flows it through these people on a construct of some sort.
Apparently, they don't go to the bathroom.
they do, it just gets ported to the end of the universe, like peeing into a river
I think Chibnall is genuinely unable to run a ship that puts together Doctor Who stories in a consistent manner. The job is simply beyond him.
I remember being very concerned when he was first announced as show runner because even when he was just contributing individual episodes they just weren’t that good.
42? I literally don’t remember the whole story.
The Power of 3 is one of the worst story resolutions to a modern Who episode; literal wave the sonic and we win. Also the exact same issue that ruined a promising script in Can You Hear Me, also written by Chibnall.
42 was a'ight. The resolution was pretty decent - they were harvesting fuel from the sun they were gonna crash into, turned out it was alive. They gave the fuel back and were free to go.
The Power of 3 had a rumour going around at the time that the main guest star playing the bad guy, Steven Berkoff, just straight up refused to do his job properly, wouldn't deliver his lines and generally fucked about. So they had to improvise the bit where he vanished and turned out to be a hologram, then rush through some exposition to wrap it all up.
This "Time is magic" thing they are doing is kind of annoying. Time is controlled by a temple that flows it through these people on a construct of some sort.
Apparently, they don't go to the bathroom.
they do, it just gets ported to the end of the universe, like peeing into a river
And it just stopped sonicing, which sucks because my 3 year old loves to sonic her toys. I'm guessing the batteries ran out. Problem is, I'm not seeing any place on it to put in batteries, or any screws to open it. Does anyone know how we can change the batteries on this screwdriver?
+1
Zilla36021st Century. |She/Her|Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered Userregular
Depends on the manufacturer, but I would assume the black base part unscrews (you may need a TARDIS, or another sonic, :P ) or unclips in some way? It's probably either a CR2032 cell/penny type or a long, thin, triple AAA style battery.
And it just stopped sonicing, which sucks because my 3 year old loves to sonic her toys. I'm guessing the batteries ran out. Problem is, I'm not seeing any place on it to put in batteries, or any screws to open it. Does anyone know how we can change the batteries on this screwdriver?
I have one as well!
There is a cap on the slider that pops off, and I believe that if you unscrew the screw underneath, it will let you slide out the probe part of the screwdriver completely, so you can change your battery. I have not had to change it, but I believe this is how, if I had to.
EDIT: Confirmed, just tried this on mine. It's just the one screw right on the slider.
This "Time is magic" thing they are doing is kind of annoying. Time is controlled by a temple that flows it through these people on a construct of some sort.
Apparently, they don't go to the bathroom.
Luckily, no one has yet discovered the location of the Heavy Cupboard, wherein the switch that controls the direction of gravity throughout the universe is guarded by an immortal three-legged tomcat named Biffy.
And it just stopped sonicing, which sucks because my 3 year old loves to sonic her toys. I'm guessing the batteries ran out. Problem is, I'm not seeing any place on it to put in batteries, or any screws to open it. Does anyone know how we can change the batteries on this screwdriver?
I have one as well!
There is a cap on the slider that pops off, and I believe that if you unscrew the screw underneath, it will let you slide out the probe part of the screwdriver completely, so you can change your battery. I have not had to change it, but I believe this is how, if I had to.
EDIT: Confirmed, just tried this on mine. It's just the one screw right on the slider.
You are right! Thanks, I wouldn't have found that.
You should see the smile on my 3yo as she again runs around the house sonicing all her toys
This "Time is magic" thing they are doing is kind of annoying. Time is controlled by a temple that flows it through these people on a construct of some sort.
Apparently, they don't go to the bathroom.
Luckily, no one has yet discovered the location of the Heavy Cupboard, wherein the switch that controls the direction of gravity throughout the universe is guarded by an immortal three-legged tomcat named Biffy.
Yeah. It is so silly. It sounds like something from the old series.
+1
Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
Mmm that was some good good stuff
Oh brilliant
+2
BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
I would've liked to see this episode detached from the Flux/Division stuff.
That was alright? Some good scares, a great cliffhanger. Every time someone says THE DIVISION in a portentous voice my interest drops to zero. I am not a big fan of all-powerful groups or masterminds who've been behind everything and are everywhere introduced very late in a show's run.
If the Vinder/Lady whose name I can't remember stuff just bobbles along and then ties in at the last second I am willing to bet it occupies all the space that a Yaz storyline should have gone.
Also I think the plot will just be explained to us via exposition in the last episode because Chibnall is unable to do it any other way.
EDIT: Reaction from reviewers has been pretty positive so maybe Chibnall has just used up all my goodwill at this point and I can't see a good episode when he delivers one. I dunno.
That was alright? Some good scares, a great cliffhanger. Every time someone says THE DIVISION in a portentous voice my interest drops to zero. I am not a big fan of all-powerful groups or masterminds who've been behind everything and are everywhere introduced very late in a show's run.
If the Vinder/Lady whose name I can't remember stuff just bobbles along and then ties in at the last second I am willing to bet it occupies all the space that a Yaz storyline should have gone.
Also I think the plot will just be explained to us via exposition in the last episode because Chibnall is unable to do it any other way.
EDIT: Reaction from reviewers has been pretty positive so maybe Chibnall has just used up all my goodwill at this point and I can't see a good episode when he delivers one. I dunno.
Nah I agree. Solid episode that would have been amazing divorced from the Division stuff. Great tension. Spooky atmosphere, some cool ideas with the whole extra gravestones being angels, and a seer having a vision that allows an angel to live inside her, and even using a human to hide inside. All really cool uses of existing angel mythos expanded on in a clever way. Also really like the professor character. Unfortuantely, it's not a stand-alone story.
The Division as a concept would be kinda cool as a secretive agency that has taken upon itself to pursue an agenda through Time and Space, except when you've made them masterminds it goes back to being a dumb trope. The fact they've tied it up to the Doctor's "secret history" implies they've been around for so goddamn long that it's improbable that they've remained hidden until now, and that they never swooped in and nabbed the Doctor at any other point in the last two thousand+ years is absurd.
Yaz is absolutely getting shafted, again. At this point Dan is hilariously far better characterised than she is after a mere four episodes. I like Vinder's girl alot more this week with less "love is the only mission" saccharine BS. Who even talks like that? In a show with dialogue about time shifting stone statues, and yet THAT is the dialogue that rings unreal.
Also agree about Chibnall being entirely unable to resolve this plot coherently and satisfactorily, and I await the final episode being a really shitty infodump.
Catalase on
"Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination."
Can someone explain this to me? It's possible I have my facts wrong, since I can't bring myself to rewatch the Chibnall seasons endlessly like I used to with previous Who.
Last season we meet Ruth, who turns out to be the Doctor in the past working for the Division. And another agent, Gallifreyan, also from the past; proven by the fact that she'd never heard of Gallifrey being wiped out ever
The Doctor learns from the Matrix in Timeless Child about her secret history as, well, the Timeless Child. And then she got her memories of her past wiped. By Gallifrey? Because if not Gallifrey, why would they have records of her memory wipe in the first place
This season AND last, it's kind of implied the Division wiped her mind after she left their service? Not outright stated sure, but implied
All of this leads you to believe the Division was from Gallifrey. And therefore defunct now
THIS is backed up by the only Division agent the Doctor is able to find is a FORMER agent
Except they're not defunct because the Angels are agents, and apparently the Division is EVERYWHERE and ALL POWERFUL. So not from Gallifrey?
But if the Division wiped her mind why would Gallifrey have the record of that unless the Division was Gallifreyan and...
Does Chibnall think ANYTHING through?
Catalase on
"Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination."
I get the impression that he just sits at his laptop an goes, "Ooh. This sounds mysterious!", and just drops it in.
+2
Zilla36021st Century. |She/Her|Trans* Woman In Aviators Firing A Bazooka. ⚛️Registered Userregular
I really hate the Angels speaking directly to us, the viewer like that. Kind of devalues their intrinsic cool creepiness.
They should either speak through other characters, such as with Claire, or suddenly you look away and there's a threat written in blood on the wall. Blink again, and you're dead.
The Doctor's transformation/being readied for transport at the end was pretty fucking awesome though. I need to find/make a looping GIF of that. 8-)
Resetting the TARDIS'es internal dimensions with a jumper cable across the doors? Sure, okay, whatever. I guess the TARDIS has been plugged into other machinery (TARDIS is Magsafe USB C LOL) before, but the cable was always one that came out from under the floor right next to the console. #UltraNerdyNitPicking
Pretty sure I know where Chibnall is going with all of this now, but I shan't spoil it for you all.
Can someone explain this to me? It's possible I have my facts wrong, since I can't bring myself to rewatch the Chibnall seasons endlessly like I used to with previous Who.
Last season we meet Ruth, who turns out to be the Doctor in the past working for the Division. And another agent, Gallifreyan, also from the past; proven by the fact that she'd never heard of Gallifrey being wiped out ever
The Doctor learns from the Matrix in Timeless Child about her secret history as, well, the Timeless Child. And then she got her memories of her past wiped. By Gallifrey? Because if not Gallifrey, why would they have records of her memory wipe in the first place
This season AND last, it's kind of implied the Division wiped her mind after she left their service? Not outright stated sure, but implied
All of this leads you to believe the Division was from Gallifrey. And therefore defunct now
THIS is backed up by the only Division agent the Doctor is able to find is a FORMER agent
Except they're not defunct because the Angels are agents, and apparently the Division is EVERYWHERE and ALL POWERFUL. So not from Gallifrey?
But if the Division wiped her mind why would Gallifrey have the record of that unless the Division was Gallifreyan and...
I can absolutely understand why RTD would avoid doing this, because your audience can't primarily be the older Whovians who are going to watch anyway, but I'd love more multi-Doctor stories with recast Classic Doctors.
Get David Bradley back in once or twice, tell Sean Pertwee to dust off that Halloween costume again.
Or more so: Swipe left for a 'new' console room from the internal inventory of possible console room(s).
It would have been cooler if she caused another control room to materialize. Of course, it would have been more expensive to do that.
+2
SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
I wish Chibbs had picked a different name than The Division because it just makes me think that the Doctor is going to be fighting a large NYC binman, who's got a big flamethrower but hopefully will drop a cool new woolly hat.
They did establish a background for Yaz. She has a family. Still, she kind of ditched her cop job. Hopefully, the Doctor returns her without missing too much time.
Remember when the Doctor returned Rose a year late?
I thought it was a pretty good episode until the first, "TIME OUT! We gotta do Flux stuff!" which took me right out of the mood and interest.
The Division stuff isn't doing it for me.
The Angels working for someone doesn't do it for me. I liked the idea that there was a rogue Angel until the reason was that they were smart and knew a lot of stuff. Okay but why are you rogue and why is your knowledge a threat? Not important I guess!
Yaz and Dan walked through a field in this episode and got abducted and that was kinda their only contribution to the plot. So that's sad.
The professor guy was pretty great and I was really happy to see that his thirst for knowledge wasn't at the expense of everyone's safety. Even stopped the mind-meld to keep them all alive, despite how interesting it likely was to him.
I think I'm just tired of this run and am really looking forward to it being over. Just episode after episode of The Doctor being overwhelmed by the enormity of everything that's going on around her. Not knowing everything and having a mystery to solve is part and parcel of Doctor Who stories, but she is under like 15 layers of not having a fucking clue and it's exhausting.
- She doesn't know who she is
- She doesn't know where she originally came from
- She doesn't know anything about her original species
- She doesn't know what The Division is or what they want
- She doesn't know what The Flux is
- She doesn't know what Azure and the other guy are or who they are or why they are
- She doesn't know why her TARDIS is messed up
And then we got another episode where she doesn't really help people. She tries! But still doesn't really help anyone. She doesn't work out a plan, she doesn't come up with a device or a situation to turn the bad guys' plot against them, she just locks doors and opens other doors and helps two people prolong the inevitable. We started this season with a ton of mysteries seeded in the first episode, and she's solved one of them, and we have two episodes left. All I can feel is frustration over that.
Or more so: Swipe left for a 'new' console room from the internal inventory of possible console room(s).
It would have been cooler if she caused another control room to materialize. Of course, it would have been more expensive to do that.
Maybe they should invest in an Unreal Engine licence and do what some other sci-fi shows are doing to mix things up with virtual sets.
The ones on ST:Disco look pretty damn good nowadays.
I really hate the Angels speaking directly to us, the viewer like that. Kind of devalues their intrinsic cool creepiness.
They should either speak through other characters, such as with Claire, or suddenly you look away and there's a threat written in blood on the wall. Blink again, and you're dead.
The Doctor's transformation/being readied for transport at the end was pretty fucking awesome though. I need to find/make a looping GIF of that. 8-)
Resetting the TARDIS'es internal dimensions with a jumper cable across the doors? Sure, okay, whatever. I guess the TARDIS has been plugged into other machinery (TARDIS is Magsafe USB C LOL) before, but the cable was always one that came out from under the floor right next to the console. #UltraNerdyNitPicking
Pretty sure I know where Chibnall is going with all of this now, but I shan't spoil it for you all.
Are ya thinking more origin story stuff? ;D
Vinder and Bel's baby is gonna be the Timeless Child, hucked through a portal to end up at that weird monument where she's found, eh? Maybe acquires regeneration by absorbing the flux or some such...
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Definitely back to a shrug after a pretty solid ep 2
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
42? I literally don’t remember the whole story.
Season 5 Silurian two parter always felt rushed and repurposed; like it was very clearly written for Tennant because Matt Smith suddenly acted like him.
Dinosaurs on a Spaceship introduced Brian, who was great. But the story resolution was poor, the extraneous historical companions is still an issue I have with his modern day writing, and the Doctor again acting out of character.
The Power of 3 is one of the worst story resolutions to a modern Who episode; literal wave the sonic and we win. Also the exact same issue that ruined a promising script in Can You Hear Me, also written by Chibnall.
Apparently, they don't go to the bathroom.
they do, it just gets ported to the end of the universe, like peeing into a river
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
42 was a'ight. The resolution was pretty decent - they were harvesting fuel from the sun they were gonna crash into, turned out it was alive. They gave the fuel back and were free to go.
The Power of 3 had a rumour going around at the time that the main guest star playing the bad guy, Steven Berkoff, just straight up refused to do his job properly, wouldn't deliver his lines and generally fucked about. So they had to improvise the bit where he vanished and turned out to be a hologram, then rush through some exposition to wrap it all up.
no wonder Alioth is so grumpy
And it just stopped sonicing, which sucks because my 3 year old loves to sonic her toys. I'm guessing the batteries ran out. Problem is, I'm not seeing any place on it to put in batteries, or any screws to open it. Does anyone know how we can change the batteries on this screwdriver?
I have one as well!
There is a cap on the slider that pops off, and I believe that if you unscrew the screw underneath, it will let you slide out the probe part of the screwdriver completely, so you can change your battery. I have not had to change it, but I believe this is how, if I had to.
EDIT: Confirmed, just tried this on mine. It's just the one screw right on the slider.
I should go to a PAX and sonic people.
Luckily, no one has yet discovered the location of the Heavy Cupboard, wherein the switch that controls the direction of gravity throughout the universe is guarded by an immortal three-legged tomcat named Biffy.
You are right! Thanks, I wouldn't have found that.
You should see the smile on my 3yo as she again runs around the house sonicing all her toys
Yeah. It is so silly. It sounds like something from the old series.
If the Vinder/Lady whose name I can't remember stuff just bobbles along and then ties in at the last second I am willing to bet it occupies all the space that a Yaz storyline should have gone.
Also I think the plot will just be explained to us via exposition in the last episode because Chibnall is unable to do it any other way.
EDIT: Reaction from reviewers has been pretty positive so maybe Chibnall has just used up all my goodwill at this point and I can't see a good episode when he delivers one. I dunno.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
The Division as a concept would be kinda cool as a secretive agency that has taken upon itself to pursue an agenda through Time and Space, except when you've made them masterminds it goes back to being a dumb trope. The fact they've tied it up to the Doctor's "secret history" implies they've been around for so goddamn long that it's improbable that they've remained hidden until now, and that they never swooped in and nabbed the Doctor at any other point in the last two thousand+ years is absurd.
Yaz is absolutely getting shafted, again. At this point Dan is hilariously far better characterised than she is after a mere four episodes. I like Vinder's girl alot more this week with less "love is the only mission" saccharine BS. Who even talks like that? In a show with dialogue about time shifting stone statues, and yet THAT is the dialogue that rings unreal.
Also agree about Chibnall being entirely unable to resolve this plot coherently and satisfactorily, and I await the final episode being a really shitty infodump.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
- Last season we meet Ruth, who turns out to be the Doctor in the past working for the Division. And another agent, Gallifreyan, also from the past; proven by the fact that she'd never heard of Gallifrey being wiped out ever
- The Doctor learns from the Matrix in Timeless Child about her secret history as, well, the Timeless Child. And then she got her memories of her past wiped. By Gallifrey? Because if not Gallifrey, why would they have records of her memory wipe in the first place
- This season AND last, it's kind of implied the Division wiped her mind after she left their service? Not outright stated sure, but implied
- All of this leads you to believe the Division was from Gallifrey. And therefore defunct now
- THIS is backed up by the only Division agent the Doctor is able to find is a FORMER agent
- Except they're not defunct because the Angels are agents, and apparently the Division is EVERYWHERE and ALL POWERFUL. So not from Gallifrey?
- But if the Division wiped her mind why would Gallifrey have the record of that unless the Division was Gallifreyan and...
Does Chibnall think ANYTHING through?They should either speak through other characters, such as with Claire, or suddenly you look away and there's a threat written in blood on the wall. Blink again, and you're dead.
The Doctor's transformation/being readied for transport at the end was pretty fucking awesome though. I need to find/make a looping GIF of that. 8-)
Resetting the TARDIS'es internal dimensions with a jumper cable across the doors? Sure, okay, whatever. I guess the TARDIS has been plugged into other machinery (TARDIS is Magsafe USB C LOL) before, but the cable was always one that came out from under the floor right next to the console. #UltraNerdyNitPicking
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Get David Bradley back in once or twice, tell Sean Pertwee to dust off that Halloween costume again.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
It would have been cooler if she caused another control room to materialize. Of course, it would have been more expensive to do that.
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
Remember when the Doctor returned Rose a year late?
The Division stuff isn't doing it for me.
Yaz and Dan walked through a field in this episode and got abducted and that was kinda their only contribution to the plot. So that's sad.
The professor guy was pretty great and I was really happy to see that his thirst for knowledge wasn't at the expense of everyone's safety. Even stopped the mind-meld to keep them all alive, despite how interesting it likely was to him.
I think I'm just tired of this run and am really looking forward to it being over. Just episode after episode of The Doctor being overwhelmed by the enormity of everything that's going on around her. Not knowing everything and having a mystery to solve is part and parcel of Doctor Who stories, but she is under like 15 layers of not having a fucking clue and it's exhausting.
- She doesn't know who she is
- She doesn't know where she originally came from
- She doesn't know anything about her original species
- She doesn't know what The Division is or what they want
- She doesn't know what The Flux is
- She doesn't know what Azure and the other guy are or who they are or why they are
- She doesn't know why her TARDIS is messed up
And then we got another episode where she doesn't really help people. She tries! But still doesn't really help anyone. She doesn't work out a plan, she doesn't come up with a device or a situation to turn the bad guys' plot against them, she just locks doors and opens other doors and helps two people prolong the inevitable. We started this season with a ton of mysteries seeded in the first episode, and she's solved one of them, and we have two episodes left. All I can feel is frustration over that.
The ones on ST:Disco look pretty damn good nowadays.
https://www.polygon.com/tv/2020/2/20/21146152/the-mandalorian-making-of-video-unreal-engine-projection-screen
https://ascmag.com/articles/the-mandalorian
Are ya thinking more origin story stuff? ;D