On the upswing from shot 3. Chills, fever and nausea hit like clockwork after 12 hours. Spent most of the early morning throwing up, and by 24 hours I'm feeling mostly fine, if still a little dizzy.
Honestly I hope masks become the new normal. All this talk about COVID vaccine rates forgets that there are a shitload of other diseases floating around out there and I’m actually really enjoying being able to not get sick every other week from random exposures.
Also this pushback on masks is really a US thing. Years ago I had colleagues from Japan commenting to me how they got a ton of strange looks from people here when they tried to wear their mask on an airplane. Especially after the bird flu epidemics etc, mask wearing in Asia became pretty commonplace. I hope it catches on here too. I know I’m not planning to stop wearing a mask in public like ever.
Forgive me but I need to say/post this somewhere or the stress with destroy me.
I live in California and got vaccinated back in May. My parents have been planning to move to Illinois for about six months now because of my grandfather’s failing health. About a week ago, I was ‘volunteered’ without my knowledge or consent to accompany my mom as she drove some stuff cross country. I was unable to get a COVID booster in time for the trip.
We arrived 2 days ago and the entire trip was nerve wracking as I saw little to no one wearing masks except for most* employees of various gas stations and hotels.
Today, the family had an early Thanksgiving at my grandfather’s house. I was told about this in advance and that the only ones coming would be my cousin, her husband and son. Instead, my aunt and uncle also showed up and while everyone said they were vaccinated, no one wore a mask and my mom actually tried to shame me out of wearing one. I told her that I was uncomfortable but she made her disappointment clear.
I don’t know what the point of this post is. I’m just pissed right now
*There was one Subway in Nebraska where no one inside wore a mask. I would have said something but I just wanted to get out of there as fast as possible.
Honestly I hope masks become the new normal. All this talk about COVID vaccine rates forgets that there are a shitload of other diseases floating around out there and I’m actually really enjoying being able to not get sick every other week from random exposures.
Also this pushback on masks is really a US thing. Years ago I had colleagues from Japan commenting to me how they got a ton of strange looks from people here when they tried to wear their mask on an airplane. Especially after the bird flu epidemics etc, mask wearing in Asia became pretty commonplace. I hope it catches on here too. I know I’m not planning to stop wearing a mask in public like ever.
I fuckin love masks. I have crooked teeth that I'm incredibly embarrassed about so it allows me to have a normal conversation with someone without that nagging feeling.
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MayabirdPecking at the keyboardRegistered Userregular
Forgive me but I need to say/post this somewhere or the stress with destroy me.
I live in California and got vaccinated back in May. My parents have been planning to move to Illinois for about six months now because of my grandfather’s failing health. About a week ago, I was ‘volunteered’ without my knowledge or consent to accompany my mom as she drove some stuff cross country. I was unable to get a COVID booster in time for the trip.
We arrived 2 days ago and the entire trip was nerve wracking as I saw little to no one wearing masks except for most* employees of various gas stations and hotels.
Today, the family had an early Thanksgiving at my grandfather’s house. I was told about this in advance and that the only ones coming would be my cousin, her husband and son. Instead, my aunt and uncle also showed up and while everyone said they were vaccinated, no one wore a mask and my mom actually tried to shame me out of wearing one. I told her that I was uncomfortable but she made her disappointment clear.
I don’t know what the point of this post is. I’m just pissed right now
*There was one Subway in Nebraska where no one inside wore a mask. I would have said something but I just wanted to get out of there as fast as possible.
Hey, no worries. We all have to vent sometime, because it is fucking frustrating. A lot of us started to think in the summer that maybe we'd get this pandemic licked soon despite the best efforts of the worst people, but people let their guard down and antivaxxers kept doing Facebook on top of Delta, and we're now on Wave #5.
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AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
Honestly, since work from home became a lot more normal, I'm not on the damn dirty bus every day, I'm masking up in public... I actually haven't gotten sick with anything since this all started. Didn't get my annual cold, sore throat, coughing for weeks. Can't say I miss it.
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WhiteZinfandelYour insidesLet me show you themRegistered Userregular
So it's time and past for me to get a booster, but there's something I wanted to ask first. Have there been any studies on the prevalence of bad reactions to that third dose? I forget who it was in this thread who had a bad reaction (racing heart IIRC) and spent a little time in the hospital, but that story has me a bit anxious. I know it's an anecdote and probably not representative of a noteworthy trend, but I'd rather see numbers before I go get my shot.
Also just a reminder. Health and safety are not about 'fair'or 'fun's or 'my reward'.
In most cases public safety is by definition a collective action problem. In few cases and especially in this pandemic is anyone actually checking to make sure you are following through and not freeloading on the rest of society.
And if you are frustrated you are doing your part and still not back to normal, some is the nature of a pandemic and public health emergency and sometimes it sucks shit isn't just 'fair' and over quickly. But mostly be pissed at people who arent event trying to do their part. Blame them and be mad at them.
So it's time and past for me to get a booster, but there's something I wanted to ask first. Have there been any studies on the prevalence of bad reactions to that third dose? I forget who it was in this thread who had a bad reaction (racing heart IIRC) and spent a little time in the hospital, but that story has me a bit anxious. I know it's an anecdote and probably not representative of a noteworthy trend, but I'd rather see numbers before I go get my shot.
Boosters are fine and recommended. Adverse reactions are on par with 1st / 2nd shot and nothing to worry about especially compared to the risk of getting COVID without protection.
Get your booster if you can / if recommended.
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BrodyThe WatchThe First ShoreRegistered Userregular
So it's time and past for me to get a booster, but there's something I wanted to ask first. Have there been any studies on the prevalence of bad reactions to that third dose? I forget who it was in this thread who had a bad reaction (racing heart IIRC) and spent a little time in the hospital, but that story has me a bit anxious. I know it's an anecdote and probably not representative of a noteworthy trend, but I'd rather see numbers before I go get my shot.
I think the most we've seen is it's likely to be similar to the second result?
"I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."
This is not the result of people not getting vaccinated, that's not really a thing in NZ. We're well on our way to 90% of the country being vaccinated (92% 1st dose, 84% 2nd). This is a result of the NZ government setting a vaccination goal with the end result being more restrictions for most people. It's so backwards. The govt said, once we reach 90% vaccinated we'll implement a new system. The new system is, for most of the country, more restrictive than the old one. Which is backwards to the govt messaging which has been "get the vaccine and get back to normal".
Why do I, a fully vaccinated person, have to wear a mask and socially distance? I'm fucking sick this. What's the point of getting vaccinated if you still need to do all the same shit as someone who's unvaccinated?
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WhiteZinfandelYour insidesLet me show you themRegistered Userregular
So it's time and past for me to get a booster, but there's something I wanted to ask first. Have there been any studies on the prevalence of bad reactions to that third dose? I forget who it was in this thread who had a bad reaction (racing heart IIRC) and spent a little time in the hospital, but that story has me a bit anxious. I know it's an anecdote and probably not representative of a noteworthy trend, but I'd rather see numbers before I go get my shot.
Boosters are fine and recommended. Adverse reactions are on par with 1st / 2nd shot and nothing to worry about especially compared to the risk of getting COVID without protection.
So it's time and past for me to get a booster, but there's something I wanted to ask first. Have there been any studies on the prevalence of bad reactions to that third dose? I forget who it was in this thread who had a bad reaction (racing heart IIRC) and spent a little time in the hospital, but that story has me a bit anxious. I know it's an anecdote and probably not representative of a noteworthy trend, but I'd rather see numbers before I go get my shot.
Boosters are fine and recommended. Adverse reactions are on par with 1st / 2nd shot and nothing to worry about especially compared to the risk of getting COVID without protection.
Get your booster if you can / if recommended.
Just a point of potential ambiguity here: Boosters aren't really a choice of "without protection" or not. They increase the immune response and make it more likely the virus won't get the foothold that constitutes "catching" it. I don't think we've had studies that show a lack of booster would have the protection completely fade where successful infections aren't drastically more mild. Obviously, get your booster, as it is way better to just not catch it than to have a mild case.
Why do I, a fully vaccinated person, have to wear a mask and socially distance? I'm fucking sick this. What's the point of getting vaccinated if you still need to do all the same shit as someone who's unvaccinated?
If the vaccines don't protect you and others enough then there's no end to this ever.
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lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
This is not the result of people not getting vaccinated, that's not really a thing in NZ. We're well on our way to 90% of the country being vaccinated (92% 1st dose, 84% 2nd). This is a result of the NZ government setting a vaccination goal with the end result being more restrictions for most people. It's so backwards. The govt said, once we reach 90% vaccinated we'll implement a new system. The new system is, for most of the country, more restrictive than the old one. Which is backwards to the govt messaging which has been "get the vaccine and get back to normal".
My outlook on it is that honestly, it's more restrictive for unvaccinated people. From what I've looked up, I'm double vaxxed, have my vaxpass, I can do pretty much whatever it is that I want. I'm not going to because there are still those around me that are unvaxxed for medical reasons. Plus my kid and her friends that can't be. and also because i'm socially conscious of those communities that have not had as easy a time with access as I did.
Unvaccinated people, under the traffic lights, will not be able to go to things, events, gather in large groups, etc. Businesses that don't require vaxpass will have restrictions on their limits.
if I decide that I want to go to a concert this summer and then venue is requiring vaxpass for entry, then I can go with the assurance that the risk of mysel getting sick is less than it would be now, because those without vaccination will not be allowed into the event.
After the last 3 months of not only being stuck at home, but having to hear the constant wails and screams from the rest of the country about how I should be kept locked up in my home for longer so that they can continue their lives without having to do anything socially responsible on their own, I'm a little weary of the sentiment that it's not fair that others need to pull their weight.
Why do I, a fully vaccinated person, have to wear a mask and socially distance? I'm fucking sick this. What's the point of getting vaccinated if you still need to do all the same shit as someone who's unvaccinated?
If the vaccines don't protect you and others enough then there's no end to this ever.
Vaccines significantly reduce your chance of death or serious illness.
They reduce contagiousness, but they aren't magic, so they're best used in conjunction with other measures.
The pandemic is still ongoing to the degree it is, largely because enough people are refusing to take proper measures. At a certain point, I'm not sure what you want from other people in this conversation here. We're all frustrated, we've all been living through this, but getting snippy with people who actually support taking proper measures to mitigate this thing doesn't seem like a great use of time?
I expect the vaccine to deliver results. There's no excuse to be made for the vaccine here, we've been very good on the uptake here in NZ. But the results being delivered are the same as if there wasn't a vaccine. It's frustrating and disappointing. I'll stop posting for now as I'm just running myself in circles.
I expect the vaccine to deliver results. There's no excuse to be made for the vaccine here, we've been very good on the uptake here in NZ. But the results being delivered are the same as if there wasn't a vaccine. It's frustrating and disappointing. I'll stop posting for now as I'm just running myself in circles.
Again, your 'reward' is a significantly reduced chance of dying or getting severely ill, and a reduced chance of accidentally spreading the disease to others. Without it, a LOT more people would be dead right now.
THOSE. ARE. RESULTS.
I expect the vaccine to deliver results. There's no excuse to be made for the vaccine here, we've been very good on the uptake here in NZ. But the results being delivered are the same as if there wasn't a vaccine. It's frustrating and disappointing. I'll stop posting for now as I'm just running myself in circles.
It's impossible to say one way or another, but it's entirely possible that the vaccine has saved your life or the life of someone you love. It has certainly, 100% saved the lives of other people's loved ones.
That's not nothing, even if you have to wear a mask occasionally.
I expect the vaccine to deliver results. There's no excuse to be made for the vaccine here, we've been very good on the uptake here in NZ. But the results being delivered are the same as if there wasn't a vaccine. It's frustrating and disappointing. I'll stop posting for now as I'm just running myself in circles.
you don't understand what a vaccine is and it's making you mad
I expect the vaccine to deliver results. There's no excuse to be made for the vaccine here, we've been very good on the uptake here in NZ. But the results being delivered are the same as if there wasn't a vaccine. It's frustrating and disappointing. I'll stop posting for now as I'm just running myself in circles.
Again, your 'reward' is a significantly reduced chance of dying or getting severely ill, and a reduced chance of accidentally spreading the disease to others. Without it, a LOT more people would be dead right now.
THOSE. ARE. RESULTS.
Yeah, but it's not the desired/expected result that Gvzbgul was apparently sold (on) and hoping for, which is "you get to go back to living your normal pre-pandemic life without any restrictions".
Sounds like they're feeling a bit baited-and-switched right now.
"They said that when everyone was vaccinated, all of This would finally be Over." And, well, it's not.
I expect the vaccine to deliver results. There's no excuse to be made for the vaccine here, we've been very good on the uptake here in NZ. But the results being delivered are the same as if there wasn't a vaccine. It's frustrating and disappointing. I'll stop posting for now as I'm just running myself in circles.
Again, your 'reward' is a significantly reduced chance of dying or getting severely ill, and a reduced chance of accidentally spreading the disease to others. Without it, a LOT more people would be dead right now.
THOSE. ARE. RESULTS.
Yeah, but it's not the desired/expected result that Gvzbgul was apparently sold (on) and hoping for, which is "you get to go back to living your normal pre-pandemic life without any restrictions".
And unfortunately that'll just take more time and progress for everyone
lonelyahavaCall me Ahava ~~She/Her~~Move to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
It's a very frustrating time down here right now.
Outside of here, y'all have had almost 20 months or so to get used to 'living with it' We've had 3 months. And even those 3 months most of the 'living with it' has happened in Auckland.
We're moving from a rather simple system of
Level 4 Stay the fuck home
Level 3 Stay the fuck home with takeaway food
Level 2 You can move about but stay way from other people
Level 1 Normal life but you should consider staying away from other people and wear a mask if you're not feeling well
to a new system that has, in theory, 3 levels Red/Amber/Green and each of those levels have subsections for Vaccinated/Unvaccinated. There's a lot more nuance and moving parts to the new system and we're basically saying that we're not doing Elimination but Living With It.
We're trying to get 90% of elgible people (over 12s) vaccinated, but that's not even across the board. There are some areas of the country that are still in the low 60% area, and those tend to be areas that are both vacation/holiday spots and also highly Maori and Pasifika regions, and due to all kinds of systemic inequalities, these areas and people are likely to be hardest hit.
It's tough to catch up on 20 months of "living with it" in under 4 months. It's one hell of a whiplash.
I expect the vaccine to deliver results. There's no excuse to be made for the vaccine here, we've been very good on the uptake here in NZ. But the results being delivered are the same as if there wasn't a vaccine. It's frustrating and disappointing. I'll stop posting for now as I'm just running myself in circles.
Again, your 'reward' is a significantly reduced chance of dying or getting severely ill, and a reduced chance of accidentally spreading the disease to others. Without it, a LOT more people would be dead right now.
THOSE. ARE. RESULTS.
Yeah, but it's not the desired/expected result that Gvzbgul was apparently sold (on) and hoping for, which is "you get to go back to living your normal pre-pandemic life without any restrictions".
And unfortunately that'll just take more time and progress for everyone
Honest question, though: do you really think we're likely to ever get (back) to that point?
I don't think, even when (if?) we finally get a handle on all of this, we can put the genie back in the lamp or the toothpaste back in the tube and pretend none of this ever happened. No matter how much some people would like exactly that.
This is not the result of people not getting vaccinated, that's not really a thing in NZ. We're well on our way to 90% of the country being vaccinated (92% 1st dose, 84% 2nd). This is a result of the NZ government setting a vaccination goal with the end result being more restrictions for most people. It's so backwards. The govt said, once we reach 90% vaccinated we'll implement a new system. The new system is, for most of the country, more restrictive than the old one. Which is backwards to the govt messaging which has been "get the vaccine and get back to normal".
My perspective is that the NZ government had a good response until Delta hit. Before that point, there was a good chance that COVID could be outright eradicated. Under that assumption, locking down the country every time someone coughs is a reasonable response, even if it's terrible for tourism. But then the rest of the world screwed up, now we have Delta, and nobody is even trying to eradicate COVID anymore. At that point, the current approach only makes sense as a delaying tactic to get everybody vaccinated first.
NZ needs tourist bucks, and some percentage of those tourists will come to NZ while infected. Under the old rules, a tourist could visit somewhere, spread COVID, then the entire area would lock down hard until it was gone. That's not really an appropriate response anymore, as the most recent Auckland lockdowns showed. Getting rid of a Delta infection in a city can take months, and a proper stream of tourists would mean half the country would be in strict lockdown at any one time. That's not sustainable long-term, and neither is keeping the current restrictions on visitors long-term.
So, NZ needs rules where the country can remain open even while there's known infections, because there will always be infections. At the same time, taking their cues from America's YOLO approach is also stupid. So, get everyone possible vaccinated, figure out rules that have a good balance between safety and convenience, then reopen.
there are literally 0 vaccines that provide 100% immunity and mean you can put yourself out into the world without fear of incidence
vaccines are part of a larger process that is about throwing up bulwarks against a virus to mitigate its effects, in order to get to a point in our lives where we don't worry about it. what people are either unaware of or forget is the multitude of actions and time taken to get us there, because most of us have lived a life where all those diseases were already functionally eliminated for us. a lot of people only hear "we got a vaccine and smallpox was eradicated" (which, in fairness, is probably partially because it was the first major vaccine we managed to invent), and are not told about the other work done to control the disease.
we are not at the end of history, no matter how many people try to pitch that as an appeal, we are still in the thick of doing everything
I expect the vaccine to deliver results. There's no excuse to be made for the vaccine here, we've been very good on the uptake here in NZ. But the results being delivered are the same as if there wasn't a vaccine. It's frustrating and disappointing. I'll stop posting for now as I'm just running myself in circles.
Again, your 'reward' is a significantly reduced chance of dying or getting severely ill, and a reduced chance of accidentally spreading the disease to others. Without it, a LOT more people would be dead right now.
THOSE. ARE. RESULTS.
Yeah, but it's not the desired/expected result that Gvzbgul was apparently sold (on) and hoping for, which is "you get to go back to living your normal pre-pandemic life without any restrictions".
And unfortunately that'll just take more time and progress for everyone
Honest question, though: do you really think we're likely to ever get (back) to that point?
I don't think, even when (if?) we finally get a handle on all of this, we can put the genie back in the lamp or the toothpaste back in the tube and pretend none of this ever happened. No matter how much some people would like exactly that.
Yeah. If everyone gets vaccinated and keeps up with boosters, there's no more genie or whatever. Being up-to-date on the vaccine helps so much, the main issue is the lack of people doing it (whether willfully in places like the US, or not in places with less supply).
I expect the vaccine to deliver results. There's no excuse to be made for the vaccine here, we've been very good on the uptake here in NZ. But the results being delivered are the same as if there wasn't a vaccine. It's frustrating and disappointing. I'll stop posting for now as I'm just running myself in circles.
Again, your 'reward' is a significantly reduced chance of dying or getting severely ill, and a reduced chance of accidentally spreading the disease to others. Without it, a LOT more people would be dead right now.
THOSE. ARE. RESULTS.
Yeah, but it's not the desired/expected result that Gvzbgul was apparently sold (on) and hoping for, which is "you get to go back to living your normal pre-pandemic life without any restrictions".
Sounds like they're feeling a bit baited-and-switched right now.
"They said that when everyone was vaccinated, all of This would finally be Over." And, well, it's not.
Evolution is a harsh mistress.
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
Overall we're social creatures, and want to do social things with each other with a minimum of interference. Like previous pandemics though it will certainly leave its mark on our generations and the newest one. At some point we'll reach a level of deaths that is acceptable to society in general.
So it's time and past for me to get a booster, but there's something I wanted to ask first. Have there been any studies on the prevalence of bad reactions to that third dose? I forget who it was in this thread who had a bad reaction (racing heart IIRC) and spent a little time in the hospital, but that story has me a bit anxious. I know it's an anecdote and probably not representative of a noteworthy trend, but I'd rather see numbers before I go get my shot.
That was me! My heart rate was set to hummingbird for a day, which earned me a trip to the ER. The doctor was not concerned, as my EKG looked normal and a spiked heart rate is not an unheard of immune response. Indeed, the next day my heart rate had started to come down, and over the next several days slowly returned to normal.
That said, I have no regrets about getting my booster, and will get another one in the future I'm sure. My experience seems to be rare, so I wouldn't let it scare you. Either way, it's still better than getting COVID.
Why do I, a fully vaccinated person, have to wear a mask and socially distance? I'm fucking sick this. What's the point of getting vaccinated if you still need to do all the same shit as someone who's unvaccinated?
If the vaccines don't protect you and others enough then there's no end to this ever.
There may be improvements in the vaccine in the future - I've heard some companies are experimenting with inhaled vaccines, which may be better at preventing you from catching Covid at all (and therefor being able to spread it even when vaccinated), as they target the upper respiratory system where it starts. Injected vaccines are still vitally important for vastly reducing the chance of Covid becoming serious.
There's also work ongoing on medicine that helps when someone actually catches Covid, vaccine or no. Improvements in either of these could certainly help the situation, and make precautions like mask wearing less important (in terms of lives saved). Or maybe masks do remain important indefinitely. No one can predict the future.
But for now... even if you assume that being vaccinated reduces your chance of spreading Covid by 50%, and wearing a mask reduces your chance of spreading Covid by 50%, then doing both reduces it by 75%. That's not an argument that either is useless, that's an argument that it's really good to do both.
16+ already at 86% fully vaxxed, 50+ at 93%, 70+ already over 95%. All steady markups over the past 8 weeks.
Hopefully the lagging states (WA/SA/NT/QLD) is only an issue with supply/distribution (larger, emptier states, not prioritized like NSW/VIC), and not hesitancy. Though QLD was always going to be an issue there, even if their response has been reasonable.
No data for 12+'s yet, and still waiting on youngers to get approved.
Hmm. Had to go to a doctor for something unrelated, but might have gotten my "natural booster" there. Have a headache that feels exactly like the effects of the second shot I got 4 months ago, plus a runny nose.
Guess that's the risk when you go to any doctor that does covid testing nowadays
Amusingly, I tried two home test kits this morning and both were DoA. Blue bar on the test stripe, meaning it wasn't stored properly, which must've happened at the store since I bought them yesterday
16+ already at 86% fully vaxxed, 50+ at 93%, 70+ already over 95%. All steady markups over the past 8 weeks.
Hopefully the lagging states (WA/SA/NT/QLD) is only an issue with supply/distribution (larger, emptier states, not prioritized like NSW/VIC), and not hesitancy. Though QLD was always going to be an issue there, even if their response has been reasonable.
No data for 12+'s yet, and still waiting on youngers to get approved.
On Qld, saw a random user on Imgur posting that their doctor told them to do their own research about the Covid vaccine and potential complications with their individual condition.
Was pretty depressing.
Hospitals in the Netherlands are apparently stopping all chemotherapy applications and organ transplants to have more capacity. If the virus spread there isn't stopped, all available hositpal capacity will be used up in one week
Throughout the entire pandemic the action plans from most places have been a mix of confused messaging, being too hard, and not being hard enough. Often all together, but sometimes veering wildly around a bingo card of strategies. As a result, we're often left to read the tea leaves and try to guess at what what we'll be able to do or not do in a week's time, let alone a month. I think that that ongoing uncertainty is the biggest driver of dissatisfaction among the people who are masked and vaccinated and boosted where possible.
I don't think that seatbelts or airbags are the right car analogy for safety right now - it's that when we go out, we don't know if the other drivers ever have their brakes inspected on their vehicles or if they accept speed limits and stop signs. Some of them are making a point of driving drunk. That is to say, things that impact not just their own safety, but the safety of everyone else on the road. Some risk in driving is to be expected. Accidents happen even to very good drivers who obey all of the rules of the road and who only drive when they have a specific purpose that they can't achieve by walking, cycling or taking transit. But it's very frustrating to hear rumblings that boil down to "you might not be able to spend Christmas with your elderly grandparents and your extended family of people who are all responsible drivers who follow the rules of the road, because some of the other drivers out there are really irresponsible. Don't you know that hospitals are filling up with those people who speed everywhere, run stop signs, and whose brakes may or may not function!"
Also, the people who are getting into accidents because they have no brakes and ignore road signs are getting priority at automotive shops.
So yeah, there's a lot of anger. And as long as governments are saying "you can't take the bridge to go see your grandmother, but we're going to keep allowing the reckless drivers on the road," then there darn well will be pushback against continued restrictions when they feel arbitrary, painful, and fail to target the underlying reason of why we're in a position such that driving is a particularly dangerous activity.
That analogy may have run driven away from me a bit.
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
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Get your shots and keep wearing masks.
Also this pushback on masks is really a US thing. Years ago I had colleagues from Japan commenting to me how they got a ton of strange looks from people here when they tried to wear their mask on an airplane. Especially after the bird flu epidemics etc, mask wearing in Asia became pretty commonplace. I hope it catches on here too. I know I’m not planning to stop wearing a mask in public like ever.
I live in California and got vaccinated back in May. My parents have been planning to move to Illinois for about six months now because of my grandfather’s failing health. About a week ago, I was ‘volunteered’ without my knowledge or consent to accompany my mom as she drove some stuff cross country. I was unable to get a COVID booster in time for the trip.
We arrived 2 days ago and the entire trip was nerve wracking as I saw little to no one wearing masks except for most* employees of various gas stations and hotels.
Today, the family had an early Thanksgiving at my grandfather’s house. I was told about this in advance and that the only ones coming would be my cousin, her husband and son. Instead, my aunt and uncle also showed up and while everyone said they were vaccinated, no one wore a mask and my mom actually tried to shame me out of wearing one. I told her that I was uncomfortable but she made her disappointment clear.
I don’t know what the point of this post is. I’m just pissed right now
*There was one Subway in Nebraska where no one inside wore a mask. I would have said something but I just wanted to get out of there as fast as possible.
I fuckin love masks. I have crooked teeth that I'm incredibly embarrassed about so it allows me to have a normal conversation with someone without that nagging feeling.
Hey, no worries. We all have to vent sometime, because it is fucking frustrating. A lot of us started to think in the summer that maybe we'd get this pandemic licked soon despite the best efforts of the worst people, but people let their guard down and antivaxxers kept doing Facebook on top of Delta, and we're now on Wave #5.
In most cases public safety is by definition a collective action problem. In few cases and especially in this pandemic is anyone actually checking to make sure you are following through and not freeloading on the rest of society.
And if you are frustrated you are doing your part and still not back to normal, some is the nature of a pandemic and public health emergency and sometimes it sucks shit isn't just 'fair' and over quickly. But mostly be pissed at people who arent event trying to do their part. Blame them and be mad at them.
Boosters are fine and recommended. Adverse reactions are on par with 1st / 2nd shot and nothing to worry about especially compared to the risk of getting COVID without protection.
Get your booster if you can / if recommended.
I think the most we've seen is it's likely to be similar to the second result?
The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
Steam: Korvalain
Do you have a source on that?
Just a point of potential ambiguity here: Boosters aren't really a choice of "without protection" or not. They increase the immune response and make it more likely the virus won't get the foothold that constitutes "catching" it. I don't think we've had studies that show a lack of booster would have the protection completely fade where successful infections aren't drastically more mild. Obviously, get your booster, as it is way better to just not catch it than to have a mild case.
My outlook on it is that honestly, it's more restrictive for unvaccinated people. From what I've looked up, I'm double vaxxed, have my vaxpass, I can do pretty much whatever it is that I want. I'm not going to because there are still those around me that are unvaxxed for medical reasons. Plus my kid and her friends that can't be. and also because i'm socially conscious of those communities that have not had as easy a time with access as I did.
Unvaccinated people, under the traffic lights, will not be able to go to things, events, gather in large groups, etc. Businesses that don't require vaxpass will have restrictions on their limits.
if I decide that I want to go to a concert this summer and then venue is requiring vaxpass for entry, then I can go with the assurance that the risk of mysel getting sick is less than it would be now, because those without vaccination will not be allowed into the event.
After the last 3 months of not only being stuck at home, but having to hear the constant wails and screams from the rest of the country about how I should be kept locked up in my home for longer so that they can continue their lives without having to do anything socially responsible on their own, I'm a little weary of the sentiment that it's not fair that others need to pull their weight.
that last isn't against you, but in general.
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Vaccines significantly reduce your chance of death or serious illness.
They reduce contagiousness, but they aren't magic, so they're best used in conjunction with other measures.
The pandemic is still ongoing to the degree it is, largely because enough people are refusing to take proper measures. At a certain point, I'm not sure what you want from other people in this conversation here. We're all frustrated, we've all been living through this, but getting snippy with people who actually support taking proper measures to mitigate this thing doesn't seem like a great use of time?
Again, your 'reward' is a significantly reduced chance of dying or getting severely ill, and a reduced chance of accidentally spreading the disease to others. Without it, a LOT more people would be dead right now.
THOSE. ARE. RESULTS.
It's impossible to say one way or another, but it's entirely possible that the vaccine has saved your life or the life of someone you love. It has certainly, 100% saved the lives of other people's loved ones.
That's not nothing, even if you have to wear a mask occasionally.
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you don't understand what a vaccine is and it's making you mad
Yeah, but it's not the desired/expected result that Gvzbgul was apparently sold (on) and hoping for, which is "you get to go back to living your normal pre-pandemic life without any restrictions".
Sounds like they're feeling a bit baited-and-switched right now.
"They said that when everyone was vaccinated, all of This would finally be Over." And, well, it's not.
And unfortunately that'll just take more time and progress for everyone
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Outside of here, y'all have had almost 20 months or so to get used to 'living with it' We've had 3 months. And even those 3 months most of the 'living with it' has happened in Auckland.
We're moving from a rather simple system of
Level 4 Stay the fuck home
Level 3 Stay the fuck home with takeaway food
Level 2 You can move about but stay way from other people
Level 1 Normal life but you should consider staying away from other people and wear a mask if you're not feeling well
to a new system that has, in theory, 3 levels Red/Amber/Green and each of those levels have subsections for Vaccinated/Unvaccinated. There's a lot more nuance and moving parts to the new system and we're basically saying that we're not doing Elimination but Living With It.
We're trying to get 90% of elgible people (over 12s) vaccinated, but that's not even across the board. There are some areas of the country that are still in the low 60% area, and those tend to be areas that are both vacation/holiday spots and also highly Maori and Pasifika regions, and due to all kinds of systemic inequalities, these areas and people are likely to be hardest hit.
It's tough to catch up on 20 months of "living with it" in under 4 months. It's one hell of a whiplash.
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Honest question, though: do you really think we're likely to ever get (back) to that point?
I don't think, even when (if?) we finally get a handle on all of this, we can put the genie back in the lamp or the toothpaste back in the tube and pretend none of this ever happened. No matter how much some people would like exactly that.
My perspective is that the NZ government had a good response until Delta hit. Before that point, there was a good chance that COVID could be outright eradicated. Under that assumption, locking down the country every time someone coughs is a reasonable response, even if it's terrible for tourism. But then the rest of the world screwed up, now we have Delta, and nobody is even trying to eradicate COVID anymore. At that point, the current approach only makes sense as a delaying tactic to get everybody vaccinated first.
NZ needs tourist bucks, and some percentage of those tourists will come to NZ while infected. Under the old rules, a tourist could visit somewhere, spread COVID, then the entire area would lock down hard until it was gone. That's not really an appropriate response anymore, as the most recent Auckland lockdowns showed. Getting rid of a Delta infection in a city can take months, and a proper stream of tourists would mean half the country would be in strict lockdown at any one time. That's not sustainable long-term, and neither is keeping the current restrictions on visitors long-term.
So, NZ needs rules where the country can remain open even while there's known infections, because there will always be infections. At the same time, taking their cues from America's YOLO approach is also stupid. So, get everyone possible vaccinated, figure out rules that have a good balance between safety and convenience, then reopen.
vaccines are part of a larger process that is about throwing up bulwarks against a virus to mitigate its effects, in order to get to a point in our lives where we don't worry about it. what people are either unaware of or forget is the multitude of actions and time taken to get us there, because most of us have lived a life where all those diseases were already functionally eliminated for us. a lot of people only hear "we got a vaccine and smallpox was eradicated" (which, in fairness, is probably partially because it was the first major vaccine we managed to invent), and are not told about the other work done to control the disease.
we are not at the end of history, no matter how many people try to pitch that as an appeal, we are still in the thick of doing everything
Yeah. If everyone gets vaccinated and keeps up with boosters, there's no more genie or whatever. Being up-to-date on the vaccine helps so much, the main issue is the lack of people doing it (whether willfully in places like the US, or not in places with less supply).
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Evolution is a harsh mistress.
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That was me! My heart rate was set to hummingbird for a day, which earned me a trip to the ER. The doctor was not concerned, as my EKG looked normal and a spiked heart rate is not an unheard of immune response. Indeed, the next day my heart rate had started to come down, and over the next several days slowly returned to normal.
That said, I have no regrets about getting my booster, and will get another one in the future I'm sure. My experience seems to be rare, so I wouldn't let it scare you. Either way, it's still better than getting COVID.
There may be improvements in the vaccine in the future - I've heard some companies are experimenting with inhaled vaccines, which may be better at preventing you from catching Covid at all (and therefor being able to spread it even when vaccinated), as they target the upper respiratory system where it starts. Injected vaccines are still vitally important for vastly reducing the chance of Covid becoming serious.
There's also work ongoing on medicine that helps when someone actually catches Covid, vaccine or no. Improvements in either of these could certainly help the situation, and make precautions like mask wearing less important (in terms of lives saved). Or maybe masks do remain important indefinitely. No one can predict the future.
But for now... even if you assume that being vaccinated reduces your chance of spreading Covid by 50%, and wearing a mask reduces your chance of spreading Covid by 50%, then doing both reduces it by 75%. That's not an argument that either is useless, that's an argument that it's really good to do both.
16+ already at 86% fully vaxxed, 50+ at 93%, 70+ already over 95%. All steady markups over the past 8 weeks.
Hopefully the lagging states (WA/SA/NT/QLD) is only an issue with supply/distribution (larger, emptier states, not prioritized like NSW/VIC), and not hesitancy. Though QLD was always going to be an issue there, even if their response has been reasonable.
No data for 12+'s yet, and still waiting on youngers to get approved.
Guess that's the risk when you go to any doctor that does covid testing nowadays
On Qld, saw a random user on Imgur posting that their doctor told them to do their own research about the Covid vaccine and potential complications with their individual condition.
Was pretty depressing.
Source:https://m.imgur.com/gallery/6gjZyO4
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Damn
Throughout the entire pandemic the action plans from most places have been a mix of confused messaging, being too hard, and not being hard enough. Often all together, but sometimes veering wildly around a bingo card of strategies. As a result, we're often left to read the tea leaves and try to guess at what what we'll be able to do or not do in a week's time, let alone a month. I think that that ongoing uncertainty is the biggest driver of dissatisfaction among the people who are masked and vaccinated and boosted where possible.
I don't think that seatbelts or airbags are the right car analogy for safety right now - it's that when we go out, we don't know if the other drivers ever have their brakes inspected on their vehicles or if they accept speed limits and stop signs. Some of them are making a point of driving drunk. That is to say, things that impact not just their own safety, but the safety of everyone else on the road. Some risk in driving is to be expected. Accidents happen even to very good drivers who obey all of the rules of the road and who only drive when they have a specific purpose that they can't achieve by walking, cycling or taking transit. But it's very frustrating to hear rumblings that boil down to "you might not be able to spend Christmas with your elderly grandparents and your extended family of people who are all responsible drivers who follow the rules of the road, because some of the other drivers out there are really irresponsible. Don't you know that hospitals are filling up with those people who speed everywhere, run stop signs, and whose brakes may or may not function!"
Also, the people who are getting into accidents because they have no brakes and ignore road signs are getting priority at automotive shops.
So yeah, there's a lot of anger. And as long as governments are saying "you can't take the bridge to go see your grandmother, but we're going to keep allowing the reckless drivers on the road," then there darn well will be pushback against continued restrictions when they feel arbitrary, painful, and fail to target the underlying reason of why we're in a position such that driving is a particularly dangerous activity.
That analogy may have run driven away from me a bit.