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Final Fantasy the 14th: End of the World Starts Now!

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    GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    Got 2002'ed at 24 in queue, came back, was 1 in queue, stuck there for a few minutes, 2002'ed...back to 5400 in queue. Yeah, no thanks. I'll go do something else with my day.

    Queues are understandable, this 2002 error stuff is just egregious and bad programming. Bad form by Square, full stop. Fix your queue system.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
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    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited December 2021
    This same thing happens every expansion launch. It was this bad during Shadowbringers. And Stormblood before that.

    It's a problem that goes away after about 7-10 days. And I get the feeling that's why they haven't fixed it. It would be extremely time and money expensive to fix their server overload tech, and it's a problem that only happens for 7-10 days once every two(ish) years. From a cost-analysis perspective, is it really worth the time, money, and likely hardware acquisitions required to fix it, for a problem that will resolve itself in a week from now?

    I'm not disagreeing with you. It's terrible and it needs to be fixed. I'm just playing devil's advocate and try to think about it from their perspective.

    Lucascraft on
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    DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    It definitely wasn't this bad in Shadowbringers from everything I've heard and read about it. And Stormblood was more of an ingame issue that exacerbated server issues.

    This is just the fundamental design architecture of an MMO groaning under suddenly tripling in demand. It's not like they ticked a box that said "crash people from the queue when there's 17,000 people in the server and 10,000 people in the queue". It's just that the servers and their architecture were never put under this kind of demand before, so the limit never revealed itself.

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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Long story short, I find myself doing a lot less DPSing than I thought I'd be doing. Even on bosses. Instances in Shadowbringers are much more difficult than older instances, and there's a LOT of unavoidable group damage. I find myself using AoE heals a whole lot.

    Ditto. The fire-and-forget you get with the faery healing that you now have to do by manually re-targeting Kardia also adds a bunch more cognitive load, meaning that a good 95% of the time it stays on the tank. Granted, I'm still just 80 on the Sage, but we'll see how it looks at 90.

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    GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    I mean...all they have to do is fix their shitty client to not boot you to login when you get a 2002, just immediately try reconnecting to the server. This is not magic, it does not require new hardware, it does not require some magic thing no MMO has ever done. Just fix the client so when an easily recoverable network error is hit, you just retry. And yes, I actually do have enough programming experience to know that this shouldn't be that hard. I write a ton of distributed software for a living and having your code retry on basic network errors is just par for the course. I'm generally not one to crap on devs because it's "so easy to fix, god, why you so dumb"...but in this case, it really should be that easy to fix.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
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    RonaldoTheGypsyRonaldoTheGypsy Yes, yes Registered User regular
    aoe healing on sch is very easy

    wall to wall pulls are hardest healing and I genuinely run out of mp and buttons if they don't have good gear and cooldown usage

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    DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited December 2021
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    I mean...all they have to do is fix their shitty client to not boot you to login when you get a 2002, just immediately try reconnecting to the server. This is not magic, it does not require new hardware, it does not require some magic thing no MMO has ever done. Just fix the client so when an easily recoverable network error is hit, you just retry. And yes, I actually do have enough programming experience to know that this shouldn't be that hard. I write a ton of distributed software for a living and having your code retry on basic network errors is just par for the course. I'm generally not one to crap on devs because it's "so easy to fix, god, why you so dumb"...but in this case, it really should be that easy to fix.

    I really doubt their programmers are sitting around not implementing a simple fix just for the giggles. I know you have software experience, but also you clearly recognise that if a simple fix persists for multiple days unfixed in the face of crushing demand to fix it, it's perhaps not as simple.

    Dhalphir on
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    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Believe me. These issues existed in Shadowbringers and Stormblood.

    Yes, Raubahn EX was a thing. But even getting into the server to play was an issue back then. The 2002 errors are not new. They happen every expansion for about a week, maybe a little more. We go through this every time. Yes, it's worse now because 14 has exploded in popularity, but this isn't new. And when you're sitting in a queue and get dumped to desktop, it sucked in Stormblood and Shadowbringers too.

    I'm not excusing the fact that they haven't fixed it. Merely pointing out that it's a problem that resolves itself in a relatively short amount of time... and from a business perspective they probably find it easier to just comp some play time to everyone's accounts and let it blow over naturally than to invest networking engineers, physical hardware to better handle the loads that really only happen on a 2 year cycle, the money to make the fixes happen, and the time that those people could be spent on other things.

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    DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited December 2021
    They tried to invest the money upfront. Unless you believe Yoshi P outright lied to the players' faces, he says they were given essentially a blank cheque to do whatever upgrades they felt were necessary once the massive impending growth was clear and identified, but the global supply crunch meant they were essentially unable to do more than optimize the crap out of what they already had.

    Dhalphir on
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    Banzai5150Banzai5150 Registered User regular
    Ok after about 4 hours, I got down from 7k to somewhere in the 2k range once. Then 2002'd back up to 5k and haven't been lower than 4.5k since due to 2002. I give up for today. At 5:30am EST I was able to get on this morning, but I'm not able to put in as much time as I would like due to family, so when I logout, that's it for the day.

    50433.png?1708759015
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    MugsleyMugsley DelawareRegistered User regular
    I seem to recall other MMOs being able to "lease" space for periods of spiking demand. I don't know even close enough to understand whether that's possible for this or if it's ultimately a hardware scarcity issue.

    This is going to sound shortsighted, but can they not use some sort of AWS / Azure infrastructure to lessen some of the load?

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    DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Mugsley wrote: »
    I seem to recall other MMOs being able to "lease" space for periods of spiking demand. I don't know even close enough to understand whether that's possible for this or if it's ultimately a hardware scarcity issue.

    This is going to sound shortsighted, but can they not use some sort of AWS / Azure infrastructure to lessen some of the load?

    If the game is on a cloud setup already, then you can do that. But FFXIV isn't, and you can't simply merge a non-cloud-based setup with cloud servers. They have said they explored AWS/Azure in the past and that it would require rearchitecting most of the game from scratch, and that not being able to have bare metal access to servers doesn't work well with how they run and build the game.

    But even had they wanted to go cloud, you can't transition a game from physical servers to cloud in five months.

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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    If the queues really bother you or your gaming time is limited (like mine is!), then just wait a week. Pretend it was delayed :P

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
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    LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    @Lucascraft
    AOE dungeon healing tips:
    Re. unavoidable aoe damage: the damage is usually pretty big. If you can predict it you for sure want to pop the aoe dr and/or panhaima. You commonly can't do that though, especially for dungeons that are new to you. Recovering from that damage, I recommend the aoe hot followed buy the eukrasia version of the aoe heal. The healing taken buff makes the shield bigger and after I cast that I'd reevaluate if the party needs any more healing than that (the hot can top everyone up as long as nothing else dangerous is happening. If they still need more healing, pop the shields with pepsis. Get back to dpsing the boss as quickly as you can to hopefully get more use out of the kardia heal on the tank.

    Re. doing damage during big aoe pulls: the two 'extra' aoe abilities (the one with two charges and the one that costs addersting) are worth way more damage than a cast of the regular point blank aoe. Prioritize doing damage with those and don't feel too bad about not being able to spam damage beyond that. The plus side, is that it is very easy to build addersting charges in those pulls because the diagnosis shield gets popped so quickly.

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    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Oh, I don't have problems with the AoE healing in the Shadowbringers dungeons. I can anticipate it and pre-shield everyone and also pop Kerachole for some partywide DR. But thanks for the tip nonetheless. I was merely making a comment that there is a lot less opportunity to do Kardia healing, due largely in part to having to spend a lot of time party healing. I was commenting on the nature of things, not on the difficulty.

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    drunkenpandarendrunkenpandaren Slapping all the goblin ham In the top laneRegistered User regular
    I think it was very cute they basically redone the 1.0 Limsa intro in the intro quest for this expansion.

    Origin: HaxtonWasHere
    Steam: pandas_gota_gun
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    LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Oh hey, here's a fun throwback. Spoilers for very early Endwalker story/worldbuilding (and probably also a primal):
    The three goddesses that Matsya tells you about in Thavnair are the Magus sisters, but with a Hindu spin on them. They're Cindy, Mindy, and Sandy. Neato. I love references to old FF games.

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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Oh my good god, leveling a job from 80-90 is SO MUCH EASIER than 1-80. In the span of 4 hours I got mining and botanist to 90, all the folklore books, and I’m well on the way to maxing out culinarian as well.

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    SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    Javen wrote: »
    Oh my good god, leveling a job from 80-90 is SO MUCH EASIER than 1-80. In the span of 4 hours I got mining and botanist to 90, all the folklore books, and I’m well on the way to maxing out culinarian as well.

    Any tips for mining/botanist? I poked at it but didn't do much yet.

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    QanamilQanamil x Registered User regular
    I peaked at the reddit thread and 2002s were still happening, but several people including myself logging in in the past hour have gotten zero 2002s. It's still slow, but much much less babysitting dread.

    No errors for me now in nearly 50 minutes in queue and going from 3636 to 720. Was getting near constant 2002s this afternoon, but as I led with people are still reporting 2002s so maybe Aether is just dipping below the hard cap as people log off before the work week.

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    GMaster7GMaster7 Goggles Paesano Registered User regular
    Last two weeks or so, I've been doing a lot of... log in every 18 hours, check and re-assign retainer, check and re-assign squadron, then either play or log off. That means that sometimes I'm just logging on, checking my stuff, and logging off.

    With this queue, I'm spending much more time with the game open - but all to accomplish the same stuff once I get past the queue. Here's hoping it improves soon. 3,000 queue just to check my sales and bop around in menus for 5 minutes isn't the best.

    PSN: SKI2000G | Steam: GMaster7 | Battle.net: GMaster7#1842 | Twitch: twitch.tv/SKI2000G
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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Javen wrote: »
    Oh my good god, leveling a job from 80-90 is SO MUCH EASIER than 1-80. In the span of 4 hours I got mining and botanist to 90, all the folklore books, and I’m well on the way to maxing out culinarian as well.

    Any tips for mining/botanist? I poked at it but didn't do much yet.

    The purely fastest way is probably to do leves, actually, alongside custom deliveries and the daily grand company provisions.

    My suggestion is to do them mostly via collectibles, and save custom deliveries/etc for crafting jobs, because you want the scrips to buy the new folklore books and unlock those new gathering points along the way. You can mostly level up Mining and Botanist simultaneously this way, and use the Studium quests to fill in any gaps or get you to that next level. The crafting books won't be out for another month, so there's plenty of time there.

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    DratatooDratatoo Registered User regular
    edited December 2021
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    The challenges of trying to scale an MMO that has tripled in size, and doing it in five months, are showing.

    I'm only partially sympathetic here. Yes, I know hardware is hard to source...but why in 2021 are you running your own hardware and data centers for which you need to physically fly hardware and engineers out to upgrade? Unless you are Google/Apple/Microsoft scale or you have extremely tight security controls (e.g. a bank or crypto wallet) running your own physical data centers is a fools errand. They shouldn't be trying to upgrade their hardware, they should be trying to move off their own hardware on to commodity solutions that can scale elastically as required.

    That said the queues aren't really the issue. It's the 2002 errors causing a complete client and login cycle which is just lazy, bad, programming. It's completely unnecessary. They could easily have their network engine just retry on a 2002 and put your right back in queue. I don't want to hear about "legacy code" either, networking code is networking code and is an extremely well trodden discipline in the programming world.

    That it even kicks you out of the game (closes all instances) is mind boggling and infuriating. If it would be „less shitty“ by giving you the option to click on your character to reconnect, instead you have to go through the whole song and dance again.

    Dratatoo on
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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    The server capacity issues itself are pretty unavoidable, but SE is just very plainly bad at anything related to connections or logins. From their games to their website general store. It’s just garbage from top to bottom.

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    DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    that said, the mog station finally looks like it might even pass as being from 2010 now

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Javen wrote: »
    Oh my good god, leveling a job from 80-90 is SO MUCH EASIER than 1-80. In the span of 4 hours I got mining and botanist to 90, all the folklore books, and I’m well on the way to maxing out culinarian as well.

    Any tips for mining/botanist? I poked at it but didn't do much yet.

    My suggestion is to start it last Friday and make piles of gil. I was selling Snow Flax for as high as 2k ea yesterday. Absolute madness, but I made an easy million gil without any effort this last weekend.

    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
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    JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    Javen wrote: »
    The server capacity issues itself are pretty unavoidable, but SE is just very plainly bad at anything related to connections or logins. From their games to their website general store. It’s just garbage from top to bottom.

    But still, you can cut them at least a little slack- the chip shortage means as much as they want, they can’t just go out and buy the stuff needed to build whatever they need to alleviate this.

    It’s like the perfect storm- a crapload of incoming players (thanks to Warcraft management being awful people), a much-vaunted expansion launch, the massive, massive pile of rampant stupidity that is bitcoin and cryptocurrency making graphics cards and other hardware impossible to obtain new, and a global pandemic resulting in shortages of computer chips and everything else.

    I think SE is at least aware of the things going on, and they’re trying their best to fix them (as seen with them giving out a free week of sub time), but right now they’re more focused on hammering out bugs in EW and prepping for the main launch on the 7th.

    At least this isn’t Blizzard, who’d just shrug their shoulders and tell us to deal, yeah?

    steam_sig.png
    I can has cheezburger, yes?
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    DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    also, at least the game itself is rock solid.

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    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    Javen wrote: »
    The server capacity issues itself are pretty unavoidable, but SE is just very plainly bad at anything related to connections or logins. From their games to their website general store. It’s just garbage from top to bottom.
    It's kind of a problem with most major platforms out of Japan tbh. Nintendo, Playstation, Final Fantasy -- all extremely draconian, labyrinthine and extremely confusing network systems and stores and login apparati or in the case of Nintendo: an outright refusal to utilize the internet at all.

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    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited December 2021
    wrong post

    Javen on
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    SniperGuySniperGuy SniperGuyGaming Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Javen wrote: »
    Oh my good god, leveling a job from 80-90 is SO MUCH EASIER than 1-80. In the span of 4 hours I got mining and botanist to 90, all the folklore books, and I’m well on the way to maxing out culinarian as well.

    Any tips for mining/botanist? I poked at it but didn't do much yet.

    My suggestion is to start it last Friday and make piles of gil. I was selling Snow Flax for as high as 2k ea yesterday. Absolute madness, but I made an easy million gil without any effort this last weekend.

    I meant more how did they level up that fast but yeah, I definitely feel like I've missed out on some easy cash.

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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    Javen wrote: »
    The server capacity issues itself are pretty unavoidable, but SE is just very plainly bad at anything related to connections or logins. From their games to their website general store. It’s just garbage from top to bottom.
    It's kind of a problem with most major platforms out of Japan tbh. Nintendo, Playstation, Final Fantasy -- all extremely draconian, labyrinthine and extremely confusing network systems and stores and login apparati or in the case of Nintendo: an outright refusal to utilize the internet at all.

    I roped a friend into downloading the trial, and I had to guide him through the first raid boss: creating an account.

    We are currently waiting on their 24 hour timer for re-sending the verification email because their first one never arrived.

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    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    Echo wrote: »
    Javen wrote: »
    The server capacity issues itself are pretty unavoidable, but SE is just very plainly bad at anything related to connections or logins. From their games to their website general store. It’s just garbage from top to bottom.
    It's kind of a problem with most major platforms out of Japan tbh. Nintendo, Playstation, Final Fantasy -- all extremely draconian, labyrinthine and extremely confusing network systems and stores and login apparati or in the case of Nintendo: an outright refusal to utilize the internet at all.

    I roped a friend into downloading the trial, and I had to guide him through the first raid boss: creating an account.

    We are currently waiting on their 24 hour timer for re-sending the verification email because their first one never arrived.
    Yeah, I was so excited to play FF14 on PS5 that I bought Shadowbringers et al. for PS5 and pre-ordered Endwalkers.
    Then I went to log in and it rejected my version.

    You can't buy the EU store version and play a US account. You can't buy the US store version and play an EU account. But you can play US account, US store version, EU server or EU account, EU store version, US server. But also you can't play Steam FF14 on Windows FF14 and vis versa. Oh and you have to rebuy the game if you want to play your PC FF14 on PS5.

    The whole thing is just utterly fucked. I did end up fixing my problems because my husband kept his PS5 account US so we bought the US version on our German PS5 and then logged into it that way. Utterly idiotic.

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    drunkenpandarendrunkenpandaren Slapping all the goblin ham In the top laneRegistered User regular
    The Steam version and Windows version isn't really a particular SE thing. ESO has that same issue.

    Origin: HaxtonWasHere
    Steam: pandas_gota_gun
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    JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    Yeah, the Steam/Windows split's been a thing since... Heavensward, I think?

    steam_sig.png
    I can has cheezburger, yes?
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    OldSlackerOldSlacker Registered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    If the queues really bother you or your gaming time is limited (like mine is!), then just wait a week. Pretend it was delayed :P

    I was planning on doing that, but
    Echo wrote: »
    Javen wrote: »
    The server capacity issues itself are pretty unavoidable, but SE is just very plainly bad at anything related to connections or logins. From their games to their website general store. It’s just garbage from top to bottom.
    It's kind of a problem with most major platforms out of Japan tbh. Nintendo, Playstation, Final Fantasy -- all extremely draconian, labyrinthine and extremely confusing network systems and stores and login apparati or in the case of Nintendo: an outright refusal to utilize the internet at all.

    I roped a friend into downloading the trial, and I had to guide him through the first raid boss: creating an account.

    We are currently waiting on their 24 hour timer for re-sending the verification email because their first one never arrived.

    If you want to re-enter the email for verification, try if the old trick of re-entering the address with random letters capitalised still works.

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    reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    The end credits are rolling by.

    What an amazing wild ride.

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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    edited December 2021
    Fucking hell. I have no sound effects or voices.

    That's really going to ruin the MSQ, but if I try to reload to do any of the fixes i see on the internet, I'm going to end up in a massive queue, without guarantee it'll solve the problem.

    No problem with this when I could play this weekend, just today it suddenly decided to do this bullshit. Absolutely nothing changed.

    Fucking hell.

    EDIT: Well, tried to switch to headphones to see if I could get sound effects there and it crashed the game.

    2836 queue.

    Jesus fucking christ this is unbelievably stupid.

    They should have just delayed the expansion until they could have hardware ready to handle it, and do more QA, because the audio problems are incredibly common, and absolutely unnecessary.

    I guess maybe I'll be able to play in 5 or 6 hours after the dumb fuck queue 2002 dance is complete. If I'm lucky. 8 hours to get on Saturday, 7 on Sunday.

    The Dude With Herpes on
    Steam: Galedrid - XBL: Galedrid - PSN: Galedrid
    Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
    Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand

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    PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Fucking hell. I have no sound effects or voices.

    That's really going to ruin the MSQ, but if I try to reload to do any of the fixes i see on the internet, I'm going to end up in a massive queue, without guarantee it'll solve the problem.

    No problem with this when I could play this weekend, just today it suddenly decided to do this bullshit. Absolutely nothing changed.

    Fucking hell.

    EDIT: Well, tried to switch to headphones to see if I could get sound effects there and it crashed the game.

    2836 queue.

    Jesus fucking christ this is unbelievably stupid.

    They should have just delayed the expansion until they could have hardware ready to handle it, and do more QA, because the audio problems are incredibly common, and absolutely unnecessary.

    I guess maybe I'll be able to play in 5 or 6 hours after the dumb fuck queue 2002 dance is complete. If I'm lucky. 8 hours to get on Saturday, 7 on Sunday.

    Hardware to handle it would have been sometime in 2023 if they're lucky.

    Steam: Polaritie
    3DS: 0473-8507-2652
    Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
    PSN: AbEntropy
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    CorriganXCorriganX Jacksonville, FLRegistered User regular



    Pizza Emote is up for grabs with a Grubhub collab. NA only.

    n1woEHJ.png
    CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
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