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[New World] Where we ask the REAL questions! Like, "What is Launch?"

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Posts

  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited January 13
    Axen wrote: »
    We players consider "success" to be a product that is fun and engaging.

    Companies consider "success" to be a product that makes a bunch of money, quality does not even cross their minds.

    This is definitely true.

    To further dive into this though, it really surprises me that reputation doesn't even enter the equation for the money people.

    Sure, New World made gobs of money on initial box sales. But the reputation of Amazon Game Studios is also pretty much tanked and rock bottom. They have proven that they make rookie mistakes and do not have a clear vision for what they want their game to be. This sort of damage to their reputation will hurt the next game. New World might be a financial success. But whatever they do next, people are going to be much more wary of it, or outright dismissive.

    I imagine it's because reputation is intangible and impossible to pull accurate statistical data from. So they ignore it. Which is a dumb thing to do. Reputation might be intangible, but it still very much affects the bottom line.

    Lucascraft on
  • ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Axen wrote: »
    We players consider "success" to be a product that is fun and engaging.

    Companies consider "success" to be a product that makes a bunch of money, quality does not even cross their minds.

    This is definitely true.

    To further dive into this though, it really surprises me that reputation doesn't even enter the equation for the money people.

    Sure, New World made gobs of money on initial box sales. But the reputation of Amazon Game Studios is also pretty much tanked and rock bottom. They have proven that they make rookie mistakes and do not have a clear vision for what they want their game to be. This sort of damage to their reputation will hurt the next game. New World might be a financial success. But whatever they do next, people are going to be much more wary of it, or outright dismissive.

    I imagine it's because reputation is intangible and impossible to pull accurate statistical data from. So they ignore it. Which is a dumb thing to do. Reputation might be intangible, but it still very much affects the bottom line.

    Likely they're banking on bad memory of buyers. And if they wait long enough, they'll get a lot of "well, this looks good, so I'll give them one more chance..." and then they get more money from the folks who wanna touch the stove twice.

    Xantusrahkeesh2000
  • XantusXantus Registered User regular
    at this point, game development has already passed critical mass. the insane amount of stuff on the steam store is overwhelming to just about anyone.

    they know the average gamer is somewhat grasping for "a game that actually looks good"
    and that's really as far as they have to push it these days.

    unless you get some magical angel company that just wants to fund gobs of money into some new IP

    Paths of Exiled - (waffenheimer)
    Domination -> BrunswickBeardcombe - SuperKudukuJazz
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    It's the indies that are truly, honestly driving the industry right now.

    And then the AAA's trend chase and kill the trend.

    Imperfectdispatch.o
  • GrundlestiltskinGrundlestiltskin Behind you!Registered User regular
    Tox wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    Axen wrote: »
    We players consider "success" to be a product that is fun and engaging.

    Companies consider "success" to be a product that makes a bunch of money, quality does not even cross their minds.

    This is definitely true.

    To further dive into this though, it really surprises me that reputation doesn't even enter the equation for the money people.

    Sure, New World made gobs of money on initial box sales. But the reputation of Amazon Game Studios is also pretty much tanked and rock bottom. They have proven that they make rookie mistakes and do not have a clear vision for what they want their game to be. This sort of damage to their reputation will hurt the next game. New World might be a financial success. But whatever they do next, people are going to be much more wary of it, or outright dismissive.

    I imagine it's because reputation is intangible and impossible to pull accurate statistical data from. So they ignore it. Which is a dumb thing to do. Reputation might be intangible, but it still very much affects the bottom line.

    Likely they're banking on bad memory of buyers. And if they wait long enough, they'll get a lot of "well, this looks good, so I'll give them one more chance..." and then they get more money from the folks who wanna touch the stove twice.

    This all seems a bit hyperbolic. Obviously the business end of things varies from company to company, but I'd wager that most of the people actually working on the game want it to be good and fun (whether they can get there is a much larger question). On the business side, at a minimum studios want a game to be high quality so that it drives more sales/improves player goodwill towards their next title. That said there's a pretty broad spectrum between "we don't care about quality" to "we're willing to dump money into an abyss on the hope that this will eventually become good."

    3DS FC: 2079-6424-8577 | PSN: KaeruX65 | Steam: Karulytic | FFXIV: Wonder Boy
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    ive said it before in this thread but new worlds problem is that the bones of the game are rotten.

    look at some of the patch notes they put out... the game is mechanically just a disaster

    so they're trying to keep their head above water by stomping out game breaking bugs while also trying to deliver on content to the people who are for some reason still playing...

    its a depleted jenga tower and they're trying to insert bricks at the bottom AND the top of the tower at the same time. it doesnt work. i've never seen anyone do it. ever. most companies have a hard time just adding bricks to the top of a stable tower.

    their only viable route is to pull an FF14 and just try again. we got punked into playing an alpha test. its fine. but only if they fix it, which they're not going to do if they keep pretending that was just a Cool and Normal launch

    ImperfectTryCatcherKetarSyrdonAxenjkylefulton
  • XantusXantus Registered User regular
    edited January 13
    New World does seem to be accentuating just how bad a project can go in the age of "early-access"
    it sure looked neat in the beginning tho

    Xantus on
    Paths of Exiled - (waffenheimer)
    Domination -> BrunswickBeardcombe - SuperKudukuJazz
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    Xantus wrote: »
    New World does seem to be accentuating just how bad a project can go in the age of "early-access"
    it sure looked neat in the beginning tho

    well the early access period of was conveniently just the right amount of time for you to get fully involved in the game but not long enough that you realize that there's very little that lies beyond that mirage

    making your character, getting your first set of gear together, finding and experiencing all the weapons, getting some crafting going, and such... its all a good experience

    and then a couple of weeks later when you realize the pvp is essentially broken, nearly every other zone is also just "slightly different looking forrest", you never see any new type of quest ever, gold as a currency literally does not function, and the territory control and all the content around it is pure politics and given to grand exploitation.......... it really loses its luster quite quickly

    jkylefultondispatch.o
  • ImperfectImperfect Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    New World was originally envisioned as an open-world, full-loot, full-PvP experience. A _lot_ of what was designed and implemented makes sense in that context. But then when they realized that a game of that style couldn't be the kind of megahit they needed/wanted, they iterated rapidly towards a more-traditional MMO. It's why a lot of the game feels like they really didn't think things through because _they didn't._

    I dumped actual hundreds of hours into that game because the core loop is great and there's a couple of loops around that that are good too. But the actual outer loop (i.e. the endgame) just doesn't exist. It was never designed, because the game was designed to be a different game, and they haven't yet developed (or at least haven't started implementing) what that endgame is going to be. Instead, they're just extending the "middle" loops and making the various equipment and crafting grinds longer.

    So when you start to get bored, BOY do you get bored.

    rahkeesh2000drunkenpandaren
  • P10P10 An Idiot With Low IQ Registered User regular
    that it started intending to be a pvp forward game and shifted to something else doesn't really help new world's case, because the pvp is extremely bad and had massive, glaring problems at launch. i would say the pvp was significantly worse than the pve experience (although i played rapier which actually had semi-engaging pve combat - i imagine if you played great axe you thought pve was boring and maybe enjoyed pvp because you could actually catch people)

    Shameful pursuits and utterly stupid opinions
    BlackDragon480akjakjkylefulton
  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    I still stand by my prediction that this year we'll get an announcement about new content and/or an expansion to New World that steers it heavily into PvE Theme Park territory, and relinquishes this PvP garbage to either specific servers, or WoW "battleground" style conflicts.

    I'm fully of the opinion that had New World gone all in on PvE from the start, we'd have something great here. I think the world is beautiful. The crafting and gathering is engaging. The character building needs some work, but is otherwise pretty solid.

    The bones are good.

    Echo
  • akjakakjak Thera Spooky GymRegistered User regular
    See, I disagree that the crafting is engaging. Making 2376 of a single item to skill up, and shredding all of them only to have to make 4276 of the high level item to roll the piece you actually want is… Bad actually.

    Switch: SW-4133-1546-2720 (Thera)
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    Stupidjkylefultondrunkenpandaren
  • XantusXantus Registered User regular
    edited January 15
    akjak wrote: »
    See, I disagree that the crafting is engaging. Making 2376 of a single item to skill up, and shredding all of them only to have to make 4276 of the high level item to roll the piece you actually want is… Bad actually.

    I mean yeah, if you want crafting like that, in a more fleshed out game.. there's Neverwinter? lol
    I would welcome a more meaningful crafting system that isn't just an inane resource sink until you max it.

    Xantus on
    Paths of Exiled - (waffenheimer)
    Domination -> BrunswickBeardcombe - SuperKudukuJazz
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    edited January 16
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    It's the indies that are truly, honestly driving the industry right now.

    And then the AAA's trend chase and kill the trend.

    Eh, every once in a while something novel will come out from a major developer, but it's not common for sure, and certainly not happening from the EA or Activision monoliths. But overall yeah - indie games tend to take a lot more risks, which means more interesting ideas. But major companies do put out good products still. Monster Hunter has been doing great the last few years with World and Rise for instance (and has been good about iterating with new ideas).

    Polaritie on
    Steam: Polaritie
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  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    Remember the thing about indie games: For everyone on that makes a splash, thousands and thousands go unnoticed.

    PolaritieBlackDragon480Tynnanjkylefultondrunkenpandaren
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Is there any kind of good break down of exactly how spectacularly New World has imploded?

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    Is there any kind of good break down of exactly how spectacularly New World has imploded?

    Yup! There sure is!

    Josh Strife Hayes published a very comprehensive video at the start of December, talking about all the failings -- big and small -- of New World.

  • ironzergironzerg Registered User regular
    I'm sure it's interesting, but three words describe where New World went wrong. P. V. P.

    Anon the Felon
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    i think you may stand alone on the island of "what new world needed most was to be the 973rd themepark grind mmo"

    Stupid
  • akjakakjak Thera Spooky GymRegistered User regular
    Or they’re saying “the PvP is also very bad,” which it is!

    Switch: SW-4133-1546-2720 (Thera)
    Twitch: akThera
    Steam: Thera
  • ImperfectImperfect Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    If you only duel, and you never duel anyone with a great axe, the PvP is pretty good! Which is why the PvP is so frustrating, because it _could_ be _really_ good, but they can't or won't tune gaxe properly, and they absolutely can't fix their server issues with anything more than like a 3-on-3.

  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited January 21
    the gaxe is good because the rest of the game is broken. they dont need to fix the gaxe they need to address why the gaxe is desirable in the first place

    which is simply that control is extremely high value and there are very few places get control, and where you DO find CC elsewhere in the weapon systems, its extremely weak and underwhelming... like some of the frost guantlet stuff lasts fractions of a second and such

    i'm not sure how or why they came up with this design where its very very easy to run away from pvp and also its extremely punishing to even participate in pvp. i feel like they balanced the game in a closed arena and running away never entered into the devs minds

    or they purposefully wanted to make disengagement easy because they knew that if they didn't then there would just be permanent hellcamp in every starting city

    in any case the pvp IS bad, but without it the game would be even more of a joke

    Jasconius on
  • StraygatsbyStraygatsby Registered User regular
    edited January 21
    I suspect they'll just keep adding PVE, push the vertical grind bar up, implement both more gold sinks and more gold sources, then slowly punch out a few content patches to try and even out the footing for everyone. Then, maybe, down the road, they'll try and bring in some more PVP growth options like arenas or battlegrounds or something that's not just trying to get into a War or dueling outside of WW. That latter part will probably involve $$, which I can't imagine anyone being willing to pay.

    I don't think any of that will work. I think the animals have all left the barn and are not returning. It'd be hard enough to right a PVE ship, but this is the rotten carcass of a PVP-based game being stripped for parts and repurposed into a Frankenstein's monster of mixed play.

    And yet I was running some chests in Mourningdale last night having a lovely time looking for a rare drop to sell. I don't know why. They've got some hooks into me somehow.

    On my merged server, population is WAY down again. The market is drying up, and there are more and more crafters trying to sell failed legendary rolls that no one wants. The Trading Post is overloaded with hundreds of 590 items that are largely worthless but are being listed for hundreds of gold in a depserate effort to recoup costs. And yet, despite all this crafting material sink, materials are still crazy low value thanks to bots mass farming tier 1 and motes and mass chest run making upgrade materials (especially blue ones) all but worthless.

    It's pretty wild. Like, a game developer conference panel wild, so also kind of lame, but wild nonetheless.

    Straygatsby on
  • ImperfectImperfect Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    The game being disengage heavy is fine, in theory, because what should make you want to engage is the fact that all the major objectives are territory-based, and if you keep running away, you keep losing, objectively.

    I'm trying to think and really the only place where that is not true is in random ganking, not even "trying to steal a resource" but just "Hey there's someone, let's get them." And honestly I'm fine with that not being super easy?

    Except if you have gaxe, you can stick to someone across the map, lock them in place, yank them back to you, have super armour to power through their CC, and delete them when they get below a certain %.

    I played gaxe. It got boring because it was just so objectively BETTER. I'd rather disengage-heavy, more-meaningful fights with other weapons.

    rahkeesh2000
  • EtheaEthea Registered User regular
    edited January 22
    Except they nerfed the GA into the ground in December. Auto tracking is signficantly tuned down (medium dodge > auto tracking ), Bloodlust speed reduction is reduced, reap damage reduction...
    Combined with the resilience fixes, light and medium damage perks working and other balance changes and GA is at best middle of the road weapon for OPR PVP.

    The game since december has moved to being even more disengage heavy, and people are steadily moving onto the Void Gauntlet, Ice Gauntlet, Spear, and Sword for roots.
    Roots are bascially unbreakable 'stuns' ( ignore iceblock and rapier dash? ) in the game, and therefore are needed for people to get the burst kill in ( burst via GA, Ice, Void, Sword ).

    So basically the meta for damage is VG / IG, VG/GA ( 300 str, VG for root + well ), GA / WH, IG / FS, Rapier builds. Propely specced healers ( LS/WH or LS/VG ) can out heal any non-burst damage.

    Ethea on
  • akjakakjak Thera Spooky GymRegistered User regular
    And yet every other person in all our wars and OPRs are GH/WH bros

    Switch: SW-4133-1546-2720 (Thera)
    Twitch: akThera
    Steam: Thera
  • EtheaEthea Registered User regular
    akjak wrote: »
    And yet every other person in all our wars and OPRs are GH/WH bros

    War's are signficantly different compared to OPRs. The amount of incoming damage, and the increased frequency of large people clumped together.
    In those situations Gravity Well and Hammer clear out / stuns are valuable over high single target burst.

    As far as your OPR? Who knows why you haven't seen a meta shift yet.

  • ImperfectImperfect Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    Ah, that explains it. I haven't played since like... November? And the people I keep in touch with are _very_ war-focused, which is probably why I haven't stopped hearing gaxe hate.

    That said, war is supposed to be the premium PvP experience in this game, you'd think they'd want to focus their balance changes there.

    OPR is... I could never get into it, conceptually. It's so completely disconnected from the rest of the game, it might as well be another game. And if it were another game, it could have been much better. It would have to have been. I don't think people would play OPR as it is as a standalone game.

  • StraygatsbyStraygatsby Registered User regular
    January patch is out. Total technical debacle, again, but at least it was playable throughout the day. Mostly introduced some PVE bar movement to give the poopsockers some gear chasing to do. Some good changes buried in there, but ultimately I still couldn't recommend to anyone this month.

    After a few months of play, I've come to the personal conclusion that it's a fun game is you play 12 hours a day or if you play 1 hour a day. Anything in between, and it's a mind-numbing, grindy, buggy, and unrewarding piece of garbage.

    I may be a little extra salty just because late game crafting is just so impenetrable. It was clearly designed for guild crafters to be funneled resources, but in practice, only the richest can play.

  • StraygatsbyStraygatsby Registered User regular
    My "new" server post merge this morning. Region thinks I have 2 characters, servers do not. I guess that's an easy way to stop me from playing while Lost Ark is down, too. :P

    wvpoqzjoyrsm.png

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