Also they mentioned this basically in passing but it's a bit sad to see Michele Tafoya retiring. She's been a very constant, solid sideline presence during my time with football.
It appears she has a post-football plan in action already
I hate Ben as much as the next guy, but he is no question a Hall of Fame quarterback. The stats are there, the win count is there, the rings are there, and for about a 10-year period he was the hardest QB to sack in league history.
Ben had 2 superlative seasons where he was the best QB in the league in terms of per-pass impact too
Captain Inertia on
+3
Element BrianPeanut Butter ShillRegistered Userregular
edited February 2022
I dunno if this is the definition of irony
but I imagine the men who regularly discounted Tafoya's opinion on sports because of their misogyny will be quick to parade her talking points and reference her career in sports media as something that 'validates her'
while the people who were more likely to defend her against said folks will now be the ones to abandon her completely (if they weren't already really paying attention to anything she said which is likely of most people)
ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
My barometer for Hall of Fame quarterbacks is how long did Browns fans complain about passing him up in the draft vs how bad the pick really was
5 or more seasons: first ballot shoe in (e.g. Kellen Winslow Jr over Ben Roethlisberger)
4 seasons: very strong candidate (e.g. Gerard Warren over Drew Brees)
3 seasons: on the bubble but still a huge fucking miss for Cleveland (e.g. Tim Couch over Donovan McNabb)
2 seasons: likely not but the pick in front was still painful (e.g. Jabril Peppers over Deshaun Watson)
1 season: took a year to realize they dodged a bullet (e.g. everyone they drafted instead of Carson Wentz)
If Stafford gets another ring I think he's in. Even without a ring, if he performs at a high level and wins playoff games for a few more seasons, that also might be enough.
Do players get HoF votes? Because Stafford is pretty well liked around the league as I understand.
If Stafford gets another ring I think he's in. Even without a ring, if he performs at a high level and wins playoff games for a few more seasons, that also might be enough.
Do players get HoF votes? Because Stafford is pretty well liked around the league as I understand.
I personally think that Stafford just cemented his HOF credentials with winning on Sunday.
When Peyton Manning played his last season with the Colts, they went 10-6. Mostly the same team turned around and put up a 2-14 record without him. That's the kind of impact I'd expect a Hall QB to have. Stafford led his Lions to a 5-11 record and Goff took them to 3-13-1. Hell, Goff was 10-6 with the Rams last year against Stafford's 12-5 this year. He's better than Goff, I'll give him that. Still doesn't look like a Hall of Famer to me.
0
pyromaniac221this just might bean interestin YTRegistered Userregular
I don't think Stafford is a Hall of Famer (nor Eli) but wins aren't a QB stat
I don't think Stafford is a Hall of Famer (nor Eli) but wins aren't a QB stat
When you can draw a direct comparison with and without the QB, they are. You can clearly see the difference between the Jameis Bucs and the Tawm Bucs. It's a stark contrast. The difference between Goff and Stafford is not a bright line.
Kirk Cousins is a 3x Pro Bowler, including this season
Honestly he was actually good this season tho, the issue with the Vikings was they gave up an average of 10 points in the last 2 minutes of every half
The Browns are probably a 12 win team with Cousins this season and if they pulled out a SB win with him he’d have 95% as strong a case as Matt Stafford for HoF
This is so stupid
Captain Inertia on
0
zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
edited February 2022
Jeff Garcia and Kirk Cousins never won a super bowl.
And that’s really the minimum for most HOF, unless they are truly exceptional. And near as I can tell almost every QB in the HOf has at least been to the championship game (whatever it was called).
Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson Joe Flacco, and Nick Foles ain’t getting in, Eli and Russ are on the fringe, and Mahomes is most likely in
Since 2000, the only QBs to have won are:
Dilfer
Brady
Johnson
Roethlisberger
P Manning
E Manning
Brees
Rodgers
Flacco
Wilson
Foles
Mahomes
Stafford
Getting a ring isn’t a guarantee of HoF or even means much about whether you’re shit from an ass
If you’re a HoF talent, it is easier for your franchise to be good, though, hence why Ben, Brady, and Peyton have multiple wins, Mahomes has multiple appearances, and Rodgers losing in the NFCCG is an annual tradition
All those other guys basically had to not fuck things up for their defenses
Stafford just had to beat the Bengals
+1
Sir Landsharkresting shark faceRegistered Userregular
I feel so bad for Jim Kelly and all the Bills fans that went through it
Please consider the environment before printing this post.
y’all getting way way out of bounds with this stuff, winning a SB should not have triggered this response for a guy slightly behind Rich Gannon’s career trajectory so far
+4
zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson Joe Flacco, and Nick Foles ain’t getting in, Eli and Russ are on the fringe, and Mahomes is most likely in
Since 2000, the only QBs to have won are:
Dilfer
Brady
Johnson
Roethlisberger
P Manning
E Manning
Brees
Rodgers
Flacco
Wilson
Foles
Mahomes
Stafford
Getting a ring isn’t a guarantee of HoF or even means much about whether you’re shit from an ass
If you’re a HoF talent, it is easier for your franchise to be good, though, hence why Ben, Brady, and Peyton have multiple wins, Mahomes has multiple appearances, and Rodgers losing in the NFCCG is an annual tradition
All those other guys basically had to not fuck things up for their defenses
Stafford just had to beat the Bengals
Mahomes has only played like 1/3 of his career so far, he is far from getting in. Eli is almost certainly in, but Russ's QB stats actually arent as good as Staffords if you don't include rushing. Like I said before, I see Stafford putting up at least another 10k yards in the next several years which helps. Stafford also has that folksy "he's just out there playing footbaw" attitude. He's a gunslinger like Favre and that gritty narrative helps out a ton when it's a bunch of dudes with football brain who decide if you get in or not.
Also, yeah, Stafford just had to beat the Bengals, something Mahomes couldn't do.
I feel like the main argument for Stafford going to the hall is that like, he ought to get some kinda massive plus/minus bonus for playing in detroit all those years
which is maybe fair! But it doesn't feel like the hall will open up a 'what if they didn't play in detroit/cleveland' wing
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson Joe Flacco, and Nick Foles ain’t getting in, Eli and Russ are on the fringe, and Mahomes is most likely in
Since 2000, the only QBs to have won are:
Dilfer
Brady
Johnson
Roethlisberger
P Manning
E Manning
Brees
Rodgers
Flacco
Wilson
Foles
Mahomes
Stafford
Getting a ring isn’t a guarantee of HoF or even means much about whether you’re shit from an ass
If you’re a HoF talent, it is easier for your franchise to be good, though, hence why Ben, Brady, and Peyton have multiple wins, Mahomes has multiple appearances, and Rodgers losing in the NFCCG is an annual tradition
All those other guys basically had to not fuck things up for their defenses
Stafford just had to beat the Bengals
Mahomes has only played like 1/3 of his career so far, he is far from getting in. Eli is almost certainly in, but Russ's QB stats actually arent as good as Staffords if you don't include rushing. Like I said before, I see Stafford putting up at least another 10k yards in the next several years which helps. Stafford also has that folksy "he's just out there playing footbaw" attitude. He's a gunslinger like Favre and that gritty narrative helps out a ton when it's a bunch of dudes with football brain who decide if you get in or not.
Also, yeah, Stafford just had to beat the Bengals, something Mahomes couldn't do.
Passing Yards is completely meaningless now that the NFL is basically Arena League
Stafford is fine, but there’s lots of guys you’d take over him
Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson Joe Flacco, and Nick Foles ain’t getting in, Eli and Russ are on the fringe, and Mahomes is most likely in
Since 2000, the only QBs to have won are:
Dilfer
Brady
Johnson
Roethlisberger
P Manning
E Manning
Brees
Rodgers
Flacco
Wilson
Foles
Mahomes
Stafford
Getting a ring isn’t a guarantee of HoF or even means much about whether you’re shit from an ass
If you’re a HoF talent, it is easier for your franchise to be good, though, hence why Ben, Brady, and Peyton have multiple wins, Mahomes has multiple appearances, and Rodgers losing in the NFCCG is an annual tradition
All those other guys basically had to not fuck things up for their defenses
Stafford just had to beat the Bengals
Mahomes has only played like 1/3 of his career so far, he is far from getting in. Eli is almost certainly in, but Russ's QB stats actually arent as good as Staffords if you don't include rushing. Like I said before, I see Stafford putting up at least another 10k yards in the next several years which helps. Stafford also has that folksy "he's just out there playing footbaw" attitude. He's a gunslinger like Favre and that gritty narrative helps out a ton when it's a bunch of dudes with football brain who decide if you get in or not.
Also, yeah, Stafford just had to beat the Bengals, something Mahomes couldn't do.
The bolded is bad, like bad bad. It's the type of argument that talking heads trot out to devalue the success of black quarterbacks. Rushing is a huge part of the modern QB and if your argument requires tossing it out you probably need to rethink it.
+2
pyromaniac221this just might bean interestin YTRegistered Userregular
Rushing is a big part of the modern NFL quarterback and Russ still isn't a hall of famer
No part of that was meant to argue either for or against Wilson's HoF chances, merely pointing out an argument that's often used by bad actors.
Now if you want to talk about the bullshit of "first ballot hall of famer" and how the voters have used the term to inflate their own importance then let's roll
That method weights performance and counting stats for reference and is probably pretty decent. Startled being behind the worst current HoF QB is not a good look for his chances
Does anyone have any good resources for understanding the game better? I'd love to find some good avenues for what types of defensive/offensive schemes teams are running, and why. Or how is a pro RPO different than college, that kind of stuff. Tony Romo nerding out about plays type things. I am already bored to death about hearing HOF and retirement/trade speculation.
0
SixCaches Tweets in the mainframe cyberhexRegistered Userregular
Does anyone have any good resources for understanding the game better? I'd love to find some good avenues for what types of defensive/offensive schemes teams are running, and why. Or how is a pro RPO different than college, that kind of stuff. Tony Romo nerding out about plays type things. I am already bored to death about hearing HOF and retirement/trade speculation.
Posts
She does look like Michelle Bachmann in that screen grab
Arch,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_goGR39m2k
Ben had 2 superlative seasons where he was the best QB in the league in terms of per-pass impact too
but I imagine the men who regularly discounted Tafoya's opinion on sports because of their misogyny will be quick to parade her talking points and reference her career in sports media as something that 'validates her'
while the people who were more likely to defend her against said folks will now be the ones to abandon her completely (if they weren't already really paying attention to anything she said which is likely of most people)
Arch,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_goGR39m2k
I'm sorry, did you mean elite quarterback Joe Flacco?
There's actually a rule that there can't be an empty HOF class.
5 or more seasons: first ballot shoe in (e.g. Kellen Winslow Jr over Ben Roethlisberger)
4 seasons: very strong candidate (e.g. Gerard Warren over Drew Brees)
3 seasons: on the bubble but still a huge fucking miss for Cleveland (e.g. Tim Couch over Donovan McNabb)
2 seasons: likely not but the pick in front was still painful (e.g. Jabril Peppers over Deshaun Watson)
1 season: took a year to realize they dodged a bullet (e.g. everyone they drafted instead of Carson Wentz)
Do players get HoF votes? Because Stafford is pretty well liked around the league as I understand.
I personally think that Stafford just cemented his HOF credentials with winning on Sunday.
When you can draw a direct comparison with and without the QB, they are. You can clearly see the difference between the Jameis Bucs and the Tawm Bucs. It's a stark contrast. The difference between Goff and Stafford is not a bright line.
And if everyone has to be a little better than Jared Goff?
He has to be better than Matt Ryan, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray, Justin Herbert, Joe Burrow, Mac Jones, Dak……..
If you’re putting Stafford in, you’re putting in nearly that entire list, along with Rodgers, Brady, and Mahomes who I left out for actual HoFness
Jeff Garcia has 4
And nobody is calling for Jeff Garcia to go to the HOF.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Honestly he was actually good this season tho, the issue with the Vikings was they gave up an average of 10 points in the last 2 minutes of every half
The Browns are probably a 12 win team with Cousins this season and if they pulled out a SB win with him he’d have 95% as strong a case as Matt Stafford for HoF
This is so stupid
And that’s really the minimum for most HOF, unless they are truly exceptional. And near as I can tell almost every QB in the HOf has at least been to the championship game (whatever it was called).
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Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson Joe Flacco, and Nick Foles ain’t getting in, Eli and Russ are on the fringe, and Mahomes is most likely in
Since 2000, the only QBs to have won are:
Dilfer
Brady
Johnson
Roethlisberger
P Manning
E Manning
Brees
Rodgers
Flacco
Wilson
Foles
Mahomes
Stafford
Getting a ring isn’t a guarantee of HoF or even means much about whether you’re shit from an ass
If you’re a HoF talent, it is easier for your franchise to be good, though, hence why Ben, Brady, and Peyton have multiple wins, Mahomes has multiple appearances, and Rodgers losing in the NFCCG is an annual tradition
All those other guys basically had to not fuck things up for their defenses
Stafford just had to beat the Bengals
Marino
Kelly
Moon
Tarkenton
Fouts
y’all getting way way out of bounds with this stuff, winning a SB should not have triggered this response for a guy slightly behind Rich Gannon’s career trajectory so far
Was it good for you?
Mahomes has only played like 1/3 of his career so far, he is far from getting in. Eli is almost certainly in, but Russ's QB stats actually arent as good as Staffords if you don't include rushing. Like I said before, I see Stafford putting up at least another 10k yards in the next several years which helps. Stafford also has that folksy "he's just out there playing footbaw" attitude. He's a gunslinger like Favre and that gritty narrative helps out a ton when it's a bunch of dudes with football brain who decide if you get in or not.
Also, yeah, Stafford just had to beat the Bengals, something Mahomes couldn't do.
I have 549 Rock Band Drum and 305 Pro Drum FC's
REFS REFS REFS REFS REFS REFS REFS REFS
which is maybe fair! But it doesn't feel like the hall will open up a 'what if they didn't play in detroit/cleveland' wing
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Passing Yards is completely meaningless now that the NFL is basically Arena League
Stafford is fine, but there’s lots of guys you’d take over him
Since Russ and Kirk entered the league (2012):
Only half the league would even trade for him
Yeah someone said "the bengals have lost 3 super bowls now." and I said "get back to me when its in a row."
pleasepaypreacher.net
pleasepaypreacher.net
The bolded is bad, like bad bad. It's the type of argument that talking heads trot out to devalue the success of black quarterbacks. Rushing is a huge part of the modern QB and if your argument requires tossing it out you probably need to rethink it.
Now if you want to talk about the bullshit of "first ballot hall of famer" and how the voters have used the term to inflate their own importance then let's roll
Russ is a really phenomenal passer who doesn’t actually run that much
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_QB.htm
A method just to give folks a little more to look at
Eli Manning, below average Hall of Famer, gives me a good laugh and it seems pretty likely going off something like this
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Take your eye off the ball 2.0 is a great book.
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