pyromaniac221this just might bean interestin YTRegistered Userregular
Will we ever see a gamestate where Lux can't kill every nontank support in the game in one rotation with no items
psn tooaware, friend code SW-4760-0062-3248 it me
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
So with a couple days I'm definitely feeling the burden of my overreliance on Nocturne and riding the hot hand. I have about a 60% win rate with him so I've just been chasing that but as a result I feel super rusty with basically everyone else. In one game we had an extremely heavy AD comp and I was one of the later picks, if I had a solid AP jungler in my back pocket I think we might have won that, but otherwise we ran into the other team all building armor boots and thornmail.
The second game the other team selected him which meant that I needed to pick someone else. Someone like Vi would probably be my other choice in that scenario but we were again, very AD heavy. I took Fiddlesticks and I did just good enough to not totally feed but I was definitely carried to victory that game.
Part of me just wants to keep going with Nocturne until I can hit Silver (I'm currently bouncing around in Bronze 1 between 1-50 LP), then I can branch out. It probably makes more sense to do all my discovery and learning in bronze, but I'm relatively close and even if I got bumped back down it would be nice to know that I do have that gear/capacity. On the other hand, I have to win 3/5 games in a promotion series, so it's anything but guaranteed I get there and the Nocturne overreliance could be a liability in those do or die games.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Alright so I fell to bronze 2 so you can call me the tank commander it's fuckin on now. This seems like a good enough message that "NOCTURNE IS NOT ENOUGH" and yes yes I know you could OTP basically anything in any role and get to challenger but I'm just never gonna be that guy. I need some variety and this was the sign. Nocturne also isn't the most fun you can have in a LoL champ. Don't get me wrong he's fun and he does stuff but he's pretty one note. I think expanding my horizons will also make my Nocturne play better because what I really try to do is beeline it to 6 and just gank on cooldown and keep my CS high in between, but sometimes that's just not enough and I know I could be doing more pre six I'm just not looking for those opportunities enough.
So one thing that is apparent is I need a fuckin AP jungler. I think it's going to be Diana because the burden of execution isn't insane and she's very strong. She also does what I like which is FUCKIN FARM. This is also a good choice for me because unlike Ekko there's no escape! You gotta commit and you gotta make good decisions or you're just dead. My other thought is Evelynn to deal psychic tilt damage to the enemy comp but she doesn't teamfight or engage nearly as well. I have had two serious games as Diana and one I did poorly and one I did well in. Both were losses but I can't control EVERYTHING. In the first game some ungodly 9/0/8 Nocturne shat all over my team as if to say "YOU MADE A TERRIBLE DECISION HAT" but he picked before me anyways so I couldn't have taken Nocturne if I wanted. I guess somehow he knew anyways, I guess all that Nocturne has given me a case of...paranoia.
I also need somebody who will make me play less passively and get out there. Start making some plays early. I was thinking about putting Vi back in the rotation for this but realistically she has a similar power spike to Nocturne. You can do a drive by gank after a 3 or 4 camp and do that, but she really wants to hit six and get going. My leading candidates in this spot are probably Volibear or Xin Zhao, possibly Warwick because I'm tired of that stupid champ somehow living and winning every 1v1.
Warwick is the perfect champ for playing extra-agro. You can effectively gank with him at lvl 2 or go the route of insta-invading the enemy jungle and never letting them get any farm.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Warwick is the perfect champ for playing extra-agro. You can effectively gank with him at lvl 2 or go the route of insta-invading the enemy jungle and never letting them get any farm.
Yeah I've always disliked Warwick from back in the og shitty looking summoner's rift days because I think his ult was just point and click and he did basically nothing else. He just felt dumb and one note, but I guess I should actually try him.
Just had my first win (over a Nocturne no less) and man it felt so good to tear shit up with Diana. She really does melt people. The lack of ways to leave a fight is pretty intimidating but when you can run in and ult like three of their teammates that's a good feeling.
Warwick is the perfect champ for playing extra-agro. You can effectively gank with him at lvl 2 or go the route of insta-invading the enemy jungle and never letting them get any farm.
Yeah I've always disliked Warwick from back in the og shitty looking summoner's rift days because I think his ult was just point and click and he did basically nothing else. He just felt dumb and one note, but I guess I should actually try him.
Just had my first win (over a Nocturne no less) and man it felt so good to tear shit up with Diana. She really does melt people. The lack of ways to leave a fight is pretty intimidating but when you can run in and ult like three of their teammates that's a good feeling.
Diana was my first jungle love but now that she's been re-worked I just can't rewire my brain to handle them swapping her e and r.
WW is the first champ I've played that actually makes me feel pretty good in that I feel truly impactful in the games where we win.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Warwick is the perfect champ for playing extra-agro. You can effectively gank with him at lvl 2 or go the route of insta-invading the enemy jungle and never letting them get any farm.
Yeah I've always disliked Warwick from back in the og shitty looking summoner's rift days because I think his ult was just point and click and he did basically nothing else. He just felt dumb and one note, but I guess I should actually try him.
Just had my first win (over a Nocturne no less) and man it felt so good to tear shit up with Diana. She really does melt people. The lack of ways to leave a fight is pretty intimidating but when you can run in and ult like three of their teammates that's a good feeling.
Diana was my first jungle love but now that she's been re-worked I just can't rewire my brain to handle them swapping her e and r.
WW is the first champ I've played that actually makes me feel pretty good in that I feel truly impactful in the games where we win.
Yeah I think I might have to try him because there are just so many games where he rapidly spirals everything out of control. I've literally tried typing to people in chat "it's warwick, he's going to be strong and aggro early but he falls off so play safe!" and then they just feed and feed and it's just over. It's so rough because none of my junglers can 1v1 him early, although can anyone?
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
edited March 2022
Tried Warwick. Fuckin hate him. He doesn't DO ANYTHING you just sit there and slowly auto things to death and then slightly faster auto things when they're closer to death. He's just boooooooring and clearing camps feels awful. I want to press more buttons. Also, nothing makes me happier than being the CS king. I know he's a beginner character but for my mentality he's not a good fit for me right now because I just don't understand where I'm wasting time. By playing champs that want to farm I have this clear, bright line of "am I doing okay?" Obviously farm is not the end all be all of how well you're doing, but if I'm high on it, warding, gaining objectives, and not feeding, then I think my odds of winning go way up for the champions for whom that is the strategy.
Tried Warwick. Fuckin hate him. He doesn't DO ANYTHING you just sit there and slowly auto things to death and then slightly faster auto things when they're closer to death. He's just boooooooring and clearing camps feels awful. I want to press more buttons. Also, nothing makes me happier than being the CS king. I know he's a beginner character but for my mentality he's not a good fit for me right now because I just don't understand where I'm wasting time. By playing champs that want to farm I have this clear, bright line of "am I doing okay?" Obviously farm is not the end all be all of how well you're doing, but if I'm high on it, warding, gaining objectives, and not feeding, then I think my odds of winning go way up for the champions for whom that is the strategy.
Can I introduce you to my lord and savior (when I get autofilled into jungle) Zac? Good clear, ganks from weird angles!
Switch Friend Code: 6359-7575-9391
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Tried Warwick. Fuckin hate him. He doesn't DO ANYTHING you just sit there and slowly auto things to death and then slightly faster auto things when they're closer to death. He's just boooooooring and clearing camps feels awful. I want to press more buttons. Also, nothing makes me happier than being the CS king. I know he's a beginner character but for my mentality he's not a good fit for me right now because I just don't understand where I'm wasting time. By playing champs that want to farm I have this clear, bright line of "am I doing okay?" Obviously farm is not the end all be all of how well you're doing, but if I'm high on it, warding, gaining objectives, and not feeding, then I think my odds of winning go way up for the champions for whom that is the strategy.
Can I introduce you to my lord and savior (when I get autofilled into jungle) Zac? Good clear, ganks from weird angles!
I have tried Zac quite a bit but for whatever reason haven't quite gelled with him. He really seems in the wheel house for things I like with his multiple cc and mobility but I've never been able to make him work. Amumu is my tanky aoe cc initiator guy.
WW has a slow clear until you get Tiamat. But you usually can get that inside of 8 minutes of the game if you get one gank. The fun with WW is in murdering players, not camps.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Took Volibear into a normal and he's pretty amusing. The other champs on my to try/retry list are probably Hecarim and Kindred. Hecarim is a character I should probably like but he's never clicked. He clears fast, strong teamfight ultimate. Definitely worthwhile.
Kindred is probably more along the lines of Kayn where I think the champ has a cool design but I dunno if I can handle making it work. It's the marks that stress me out a little bit.
Took Volibear into a normal and he's pretty amusing. The other champs on my to try/retry list are probably Hecarim and Kindred. Hecarim is a character I should probably like but he's never clicked. He clears fast, strong teamfight ultimate. Definitely worthwhile.
Kindred is probably more along the lines of Kayn where I think the champ has a cool design but I dunno if I can handle making it work. It's the marks that stress me out a little bit.
Given that you seem to like champs I like, Volibear should be a solid pick-up.
Have you tried Lillia? I didn't expect to like her on release, but she's been my favorite champion of the past...5 years or so, I'd reckon, and you say you need an AP jungler.
Me elsewhere:
Steam, various fora: Ivellius
League of Legends: Doctor Ivellius
Twitch, probably another place or two I forget: LPIvellius
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Took Volibear into a normal and he's pretty amusing. The other champs on my to try/retry list are probably Hecarim and Kindred. Hecarim is a character I should probably like but he's never clicked. He clears fast, strong teamfight ultimate. Definitely worthwhile.
Kindred is probably more along the lines of Kayn where I think the champ has a cool design but I dunno if I can handle making it work. It's the marks that stress me out a little bit.
Given that you seem to like champs I like, Volibear should be a solid pick-up.
Have you tried Lillia? I didn't expect to like her on release, but she's been my favorite champion of the past...5 years or so, I'd reckon, and you say you need an AP jungler.
I haven't yet. She's been on my interest list but I'm not sure if she's going to be too technical to easily pick up.
I haven't yet. She's been on my interest list but I'm not sure if she's going to be too technical to easily pick up.
In my opinion she is very much not. You have to "dance" around camps a bit, but it's pressing Q on cooldown and not so much about auto-attack kiting as much, if that makes sense. There's a bit of a rhythm to making her work, and deciding when to ult is always difficult (do you just sleep the one person, or do you need to save it for multiples in case a big teamfight or...[usually just sleep someone, it's fine]), but mechanically she's a lot easier for me than, say, Kindred or Viego.
Me elsewhere:
Steam, various fora: Ivellius
League of Legends: Doctor Ivellius
Twitch, probably another place or two I forget: LPIvellius
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pyromaniac221this just might bean interestin YTRegistered Userregular
They really need to allow 2 bans per player
psn tooaware, friend code SW-4760-0062-3248 it me
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
edited March 2022
Alright so I've committed to playing 3 normals each with a variety of characters. I don't have a set list or anything, it's just an ongoing little break from ranked to see who I might gel with and hopefully the pile of games will let me feel better about concentrating on a smaller segment of characters. I think three games is a reasonable trial period. You get one game as basically a throwaway to learn some mechanics and timing and a couple more to actually see how it works.
With two games on Volibear so far I can say he's pretty fun. He ganks and 1v1s pretty hard. If you can line up his slow shield aoe and the stun that's basically a kill or guaranteed flash on a laner. His dumb bear ultimate is just hilarious too. I think he has a good chance of moving to my regular rotation.
At the suggestion of @Ivellius I tried Lillia and she is indeed pretty fun. Only one game so far and her starting clear was iffy but her playstyle is pretty fun. She's so fast that whenever I would see the enemy jungler somewhere I would immediately beeline it to the other side of the map and clear his side so quickly. This weird deer girl is secretly General Sherman, constantly burning her way through the enemy resources. When she gets fed she also does a surprising amount of damage. It's also really amusing watching the opposing jungler make decisions in real time about fighting her. "This dumb deer is stealing my camps I'll show her! Yeah she's running away scared let me kill her. Oh dang she keeps hitting me from just out of range. I'll just go back to my camps. Oh no I can't leave she's too fast and she's chasing me now I guess I have to go back in oops now I'm dead."
Good recommendation.
Edit: I've played two games on Hecarim too and I think I can kind of expand on why he hasn't super clicked. He just doesn't have much CC. If you're doing a gank you can't keep your target around. You are fast but you can't make them slow, which means they can really easily retreat from you. Without ultimate your only real option say, after a flash, is to use the E to run past them and knock them back up the lane, but if they're very mobile they're just going to get out of there anyways. He also needs some time to ramp up his damage, so you combine his backloaded damage and less CC, then it feels hard to make that really successful with him.
I suppose the answer is to 1) be better at diving and 2) make sure to circle back if you've burnt their flash, but in general it seems like there are many fewer ganking opportunities available to him. There are going to be some laners that are much more difficult for him to capitalize on. Hecarim seems like a much stronger pick if you can guarantee CC in your lanes or know that your enemies are slow and bad at running away. This all really compounds in mid lane too, where it's just so quick and easy to get under tower.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
When I started zac support, there were fifty games of it on blitz.
Now there are 2k games of it on blitz.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
When I started zac support, there were fifty games of it on blitz.
Now there are 2k games of it on blitz.
You've played 1950 games already? That's some commitment
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Spoilering more random champ thoughts.
Alright, third game done on Volibear and I think he's great! He's crazy powerful at level 3, he can 1v1 basically anything. I died on a 5 man invade to start the game, with the opposing Kindred getting first blood, so I'm sure they thought they were hot shit. They weren't: the bear got second blood. He has really strong objective control too, being able to take dragon or baron at extremely high health. This lets him solo it safely knowing if anyone comes to mess with him he can handle it, as the mid lane TF found out when he tried to do just that.
Final thoughts on Hecarim after a third game: I think my beef with him is he just doesn't do anything interesting when you get down to it. You press the W, does aoe damage around him. Press Q? Does aoe damage around him. You can E and R once in a fight and that's it. You're just running alongside things pressing Q indiscriminately.
Viego game 1: Viego is such a cool character and has a ton of room for skill expression but half the time I'm only vaguely aware of what champs do and even when I know I have to figure it out on the fly. There was a time I died when I inhabited Tristana. I knew I could jump out but I wasn't sure which button did that. I think he's a really strong 1v9 champion and has a fun playstyle with his combos and insane damage. I just don't think he'll be for me because of the passive. In order to become that 1v9 threat you need to know what the champs you're taking over do, so you can jump in, do their combo to get the enemy low, reuse the ultimate to execute, and repeat. He's also really bad at initiating fights and is pretty worthless if you're behind.
Evelynn game 1: I didn't get a leash and her first clear as a result is ROUGH. You're going to have to get a lot better at kiting to not fold immediately to any counterjungling. Despite having kind of a shit start in this game (I had to not clear gromp in order to not die) she still clears quickly after that first one and is a monster. 8/4/2 isn't a terrible line for my first game ever with her and it seems pretty clear that doing just slightly better on deaths would make a huge difference in the kill number since I was stacking dark seal/mejais. She does seem incredibly high stakes, very similar to Viego if you get crushed early it would seem like your game is entirely in the hands of your allies since what does an underfed Eve offer in late game teamfights? I guess she could potentially split push strongly?
I intend to finish out Lillia and Eve, I may not do all three with Viego because I have quite a few games on him, but it's been a while since I tried. I think Rek'sai, Taliyah, and Kindred are relatively high on my list to try (again). Although I did a practice mode clear with Taliyah and I didn't realize the angle of her skillshot is locked in after the first one so that seems incredibly difficult to land reliably. Overall she seems like a mechanically difficult champ. I still also really like Kayn's kit but I'm just so bad with him. I might put three games into seeing if I've gotten better at jungling overall to make him work though.
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pyromaniac221this just might bean interestin YTRegistered Userregular
I swapped back to ADC because most of the supports I enjoy playing are dogshit in this meta. It's working pretty well for me so far, but occasionally, you run into the malphite/fizz/nocturne comp and you simply do not get to play the game and you are reminded that the current state of the bottom lane is really quite bad and Riot still has not figured out that happy medium between game-determining and utterly irrelevant
I think that’s why I’ve just been one-trick playing Senna support (with AD items) lately. I get to gobble up a bunch of stacks and eventually transition into being Another Team Player, while still being helpful with roots and slows and decent heals.
And it’s mostly just fun. I get to yell YEE HAW a lot due to High Noon being the best skin.
PMAvers on
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
I think that’s why I’ve just been one-trick playing Senna support (with AD items) lately. I get to gobble up a bunch of stacks and eventually transition into being Another Team Player, while still being helpful with roots and slows and decent heals.
And it’s mostly just fun. I get to yell YEE HAW a lot due to High Noon being the best skin.
That is my favorite thing about that skin on her too. It’s just perfect and fun.
Switch Friend Code: 6359-7575-9391
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Alright another Hat jungle post:
Rek'sai: I've done two games with her now and she's pretty great. The ganking is so strong early on since you can come at them from weird angles and it's so powerful you're almost certainly going to pop flash. If you have ultimate up you can catch them after. Rek'sai also offers decent teamfighting with the aoe stun so isn't totally useless at that stage of the game. She isn't the kind of champ to easily solo dragon or herald it seems. She doesn't have in combat sustain, just in between camps/ganks sustain, so she can get really low doing that. Rek'sai is a maybe for me.
Lillia: Another game, this time I didn't snowball so hard from the start and was against a powerful duelist and farmer in Shyvana. I learned quickly that she will rapidly clean my clock so I can't do that. Still managed to farm strong and be of use in team fights. Her ultimate is really good at preventing mobile champions from bailing out of losing team fights. Where before you might have gotten three or four kills, now you get the ace. Another thing I learned trying to aggressively path between camps, her initial clear is dicey if you have some things leash on you. I fucked up my blue buff and gromp double pull which meant I got really low. This shouldn't happen but it's something to note. Still fun, very unique playstyle. Strong possibility to add to the roster.
Evelynn: Two games in she's very fun but I don't think I can play her. When it goes off and everything works you feel amazing, but if you get even a little behind it's hard to claw your way back into the game and provide anything of use. Her first clear is also really dicey or maybe you need to kite significantly better than I did. I didn't get a leash in either game so that definitely contributes. I think she's a pocket pick at best unless you're really smurfing. I could see getting counterpicked by a strong early game jungler, being forced off your camps and essentially totally out of the game. This is a probably not for me.
Kindred: Kindred is fun, has a low start though but gains a lot of power late game. The ultimate is maybe one of the best things of the kit. The Talon jungle kept all inning me, I'd drop the ult and wait out the combo and be able to kill him after. That obviously won't work as people get smarter. The marks thing is fun but it's hard to not int for the marks and be like "OMG NEED." When you get ahead on farm though she reaaaaaally melts people and when you can do the Q forward to do the third hit on your E as they're running away for the execute it feels amazing. This is more of a maybe not although she definitely has 1v9 carry potential.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Alright I was going to limit these to one a day but I just played a game with Taliyah and what does she even DO?
Clear was extremely suspect first go. Ganks were interesting? It really seems all in on can you land your WE combo or not. When you do land the combo it feels AMAZING though, especially in teamfights. She does a lot of damage with the Q spam which is fun. Seems like she holds under tower really strongly too with the mines and poke.
I definitely did a terrible ult on my team which I'm pretty sure lost the game. Obviously at my ELO lots of things lost the game but it was the last thing. I thought I was in a good spot to split the enemy team but the cast time is SO LONG that it just walled us from them after we used all our cooldowns. Ooooops. My bad.
I didn't even try to take objectives by myself I'm pretty sure she'd die.
Maybe she split pushes strongly? Using the ult to get in or out of lane quickly and is just generally fast/mobile?
Lillia can get low on her early clears now, but you need to prance around the camps a bit to minimize damage. Evelynn operates similarly on her clear with her Q spikes.
I think Reksai's a fine enough champ, but she hasn't really clicked for me since her rework into a fighter / assassin. Old version was a tank with an AoE knock-up (her current is supposed to hit only a single target) and global teleport to one of her tunnels, and while I get why it happened it still makes me a little sad. Conceptually I do like her, at least.
Taliyah jungle I think is kind of like a more globally mobile Lillia: kite camps around with your Q, clear, gank with passive, and eventually you can just be places faster than other junglers. As you note, though, she's pretty reliant on landing her Shove combo, but once you get that down her ganks are difficult to avoid. I don't know that she's actually good right now, though I do have a League friend who's just good with Taliyah (although he usually plays her bot lane).
Me elsewhere:
Steam, various fora: Ivellius
League of Legends: Doctor Ivellius
Twitch, probably another place or two I forget: LPIvellius
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Lillia can get low on her early clears now, but you need to prance around the camps a bit to minimize damage. Evelynn operates similarly on her clear with her Q spikes.
I think Reksai's a fine enough champ, but she hasn't really clicked for me since her rework into a fighter / assassin. Old version was a tank with an AoE knock-up (her current is supposed to hit only a single target) and global teleport to one of her tunnels, and while I get why it happened it still makes me a little sad. Conceptually I do like her, at least.
Taliyah jungle I think is kind of like a more globally mobile Lillia: kite camps around with your Q, clear, gank with passive, and eventually you can just be places faster than other junglers. As you note, though, she's pretty reliant on landing her Shove combo, but once you get that down her ganks are difficult to avoid. I don't know that she's actually good right now, though I do have a League friend who's just good with Taliyah (although he usually plays her bot lane).
I was going to respond to this more specifically but since I think I'm mostly done with my experimentation time I'll do this instead: Here's an overview of all of my various jungler thoughts and whether or not I'd actually consider playing them on a regular basis summed up in a few sentences. Not just the experimental ones I've done, but everyone I've played at least three games with in the last couple months. So this is long.
Amumu: Honestly one of the fuckin craziest tank junglers there is. He does shocking damage, tons of CC. There are some comps where Amumu is an insanely strong pick so if your allies have some good AoE (MF ult anyone?). Definitely still in the rotation.
Diana: She does basically everything I want except for have an escape ability but you don't need to escape when you're going to MURDER EVERYONE.
Ekko: I think Ekko is fun and has really high skill expression but as an AP jungler he feels like a worse Diana, especially what I want in a jungler. I want someone who scales and has good initiation and teamfight contribution. He's very very cool and I think he's someone I might want to revisit after I can put more of just the general jungle mechanics on auto pilot.
Evelynn: When everything is clicking Evelynn feels so good, that ability to just melt a fool is fun. However, I have a problem with an assassin character who really wants to be the last person in on the fight later in the game. Sometimes I need my team to initiate and do something and in those situations Eve is just going to be waiting to clean up a fight that never happens.
Fiddlesticks: He's just fine. Crowstorm is neat.
Graves: At first I really liked Graves, he has a high health, easy clear, does lots of damage and can be a force in the late game. Then I looked at how long my clears were actually taking and how much optimizing you'd have to do to make it fast and I'm out.
Hecarim: This horse boy is just boring I think. You just Q spam things and you press your R and W one time and then you just do indiscriminate AOE damage.
Kayn: The one that I would like to play but I just cannot make work. I really like Rhaast's heart attack up and down HP tanking plan and it feels super badass when you can 1 v 3 people on the cusp of death just continually healing yourself. I'm just really bad at Kayn. Maybe it's how bad he is early or my decision making regarding going for orbs or farm.
Kindred: The ult is awesome and it's so fun to watch someone blow all their cooldowns on you while you put up the ult and use that time to also whittle away their health. However it seems like she can get really punished depending on the other jungler and the ease of getting in and out for marks. I also think it would take me a really long time to understand just how to get marks safely/reliably. Someone to revisit.
Lillia: Lillia's greatest flaw is that she competes with Diana for an AP jungler spot because Diana definitely has a larger impact on the game. Also, AP junglers aren't an always pick for the most part because that will make your team usually more AP heavy so your opponents just stack resist. Diana does get banned semi often though so I think Lillia will still stay somewhere in the rotation.
Nocturne: I still like Nocturne a lot! His kit is fun, he feels like one of the most quintessential junglers. Good fast clear, objective control, and strong ganks.
Nunu: I really liked Nunu when I played god, probably a decade ago, but then I played in a group. You can gank well but it's harder to carry with him. You need your teammates to carry you after you tee them up.
Rek'sai: I like this champion a lot but I don't think it's a great one for low ELO. What I don't understand is how you close the dang game out. In a higher ELO you can use your ganking to make sure your laners are very far ahead and then your team crushes the enemy, but in Bronze I don't think I can trust anyone to actually capitalize and grow the lead I gave them. For now I think Rek'sai is a pocket pick to revisit later.
Sejuani: Sejuani is TOO full tank. If you had a duo to play with I think she'd be amazing. Amumu engages and then he fucks everyone up. Sejuani has a much harder time fucking everyone up. Also old Sej was better.
Trundle: Good pillars are just so fucking satisfying but that's really the only thing really interesting about his kit. Obviously it's cool to fuck people up with your misleading 1v1 power but that's not a Trundle exclusive thing.
Udyr: Udyr is actually enjoyable to play which is kind of surprising given his kit. The best part is in the early game when you can walk up to most people and just fuck em up if you get your mitts on him. It feels like he really really falls off later though. He's really good at just chasing and fighting one person, he's kind of like NegaNocturne. Nocturne gets in really easy and tries to blow you up and can chase decently. Udyr does not get in easily but he can prevent you from ever leaving.
Vi: I do poorly with Vi for reasons I don't totally understand but you'd think she'd be almost archetypical for what I want to do in many ways. I might just have to brute force play her some more.
Viego: I like Viego's kit but I don't think I'll ever learn all the champs enough to know what the hell to do in those instances.
Volibear: This big dumb bear is really the standout and fits so much of what I was initially looking for. Strong early game ganking and 1v1 ability and doesn't totally fall off and become useless in the late game. I think he'll definitely be in the rotation.
Warwick: He doesn't press enough buttons and is boring.
Zac: I don't know why but I've never been able to make him work and it bums me out. He seems like something up my alley.
That's everyone. Going forward I'll probably play some mix of Diana, Nocturne, Volibear, Amumu, and Lillia. Maybe Vi. I feel like she should work better for me. Yes that's more than an ideal number of champs to climb with but like I dunno I need some variety. Maybe I'll sequester some to normals only but you can just tell normal games are not really a good area to grow/learn in long term.
That's everyone. Going forward I'll probably play some mix of Diana, Nocturne, Volibear, Amumu, and Lillia. Maybe Vi. I feel like she should work better for me. Yes that's more than an ideal number of champs to climb with but like I dunno I need some variety. Maybe I'll sequester some to normals only but you can just tell normal games are not really a good area to grow/learn in long term.
Sounds like a good mix, honestly. Narrowing down even further might be ideal, but a lot of skills do translate over.
If it makes you feel better, I think Vi and Xin Zhao are two champs that I should be better at and am just not. Some are harder to click with than others for different players.
General purpose announcement: y'all spend your Prestige Points if you haven't; they expire in a day and a half.
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Twitch, probably another place or two I forget: LPIvellius
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited March 2022
tfw you go 22/4/11 and your team complains about you killstealing
edit:
This was the game.
Just, like. Are you really gonna complain about that performance? I mean really?
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
That's everyone. Going forward I'll probably play some mix of Diana, Nocturne, Volibear, Amumu, and Lillia. Maybe Vi. I feel like she should work better for me. Yes that's more than an ideal number of champs to climb with but like I dunno I need some variety. Maybe I'll sequester some to normals only but you can just tell normal games are not really a good area to grow/learn in long term.
Sounds like a good mix, honestly. Narrowing down even further might be ideal, but a lot of skills do translate over.
If it makes you feel better, I think Vi and Xin Zhao are two champs that I should be better at and am just not. Some are harder to click with than others for different players.
General purpose announcement: y'all spend your Prestige Points if you haven't; they expire in a day and a half.
Vi protip: landing a Q period is more important than a charged Q, so if that's something you struggle with in fights or ganks try just using it as an AA reset. The real value is in the knockback and procking her passives not the damage. It's better as a reset after you've already initiated with a jungle creep too. I almost never charge it when playing rift unless an ally has hard CC.
That's everyone. Going forward I'll probably play some mix of Diana, Nocturne, Volibear, Amumu, and Lillia. Maybe Vi. I feel like she should work better for me. Yes that's more than an ideal number of champs to climb with but like I dunno I need some variety. Maybe I'll sequester some to normals only but you can just tell normal games are not really a good area to grow/learn in long term.
Sounds like a good mix, honestly. Narrowing down even further might be ideal, but a lot of skills do translate over.
If it makes you feel better, I think Vi and Xin Zhao are two champs that I should be better at and am just not. Some are harder to click with than others for different players.
General purpose announcement: y'all spend your Prestige Points if you haven't; they expire in a day and a half.
Alright for all my testing, I've mostly been using Nocturne and Diana still to pretty good effect. I dragged myself out of bronze 3 back into middle bronze 2. Having said that, I've done a couple games on Volibear and split them, and two games on Rek'sai, both of which were wins somehow, so it's not like the experiment was totally useless. I know it really really doesn't matter at this elo but it is nice to be able to opt into a different strategy. My team has a lot of cc? Let's do Rek'sai or Volibear and really try to gank the shit out of them.
If we need AP, I've got Diana or Lillia, and for general purpose Nocturne fits into most things.
Volibear is such an early game house too, he takes dragon/herald strongly, has good ganks and counter.
I've also been trying a new Nocturne build after surfing the Nocturne mains reddit. Building Kraken Slayer makes you just MELT people it's pretty great.
My Diana is getting pretty decent. I've been trying to really do a level 3 gank if it's available. Her ganks aren't super amazing that early but it does a lot of damage and almost always gets a flash. She's also surprisingly sticky if they flash too late, I can recast the E to get them. I've been getting a bunch of A+ games on her, the S just keeps eluding me.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
I got to Nocturne mastery 5 in 38 games, and mastery 6 in two more games. FEAR ME.
My last Nocturne game was maybe one of my best games ever as a total carry and kind of leading the team to what I needed them to do. Obviously this meant I had teammates that are leadable which is absolutely not a given. We had a mid Amumu who was tilting super hard and just casually calling everyone a retard. We also had a Zeri who kept disconnecting but she wasn't feeding and she was doing okay overall. I knew this was winnable because the enemy team was Darius top, jungle Nunu, mid Kai'sa, support Nasus (WHY?) and Jinx. They're just all damage and a weak Nasus who, I think offset our intermittent Zeri issue. Basically, I needed to get the Amumu to ult the right people and then I could clean up their squishy ADCs and it would be done.
One teamfight he ults Nasus and Darius and then calls us all dumb cunts or whatever. Dude, you need to AOE the SQUISHIES. So we do another teamfight and he gets it right and it goes to plan. We're now pushing up middle inhib later in the game and he Qs in, ults the Nasus and Darius under the tower and then yells at us for being too scared to go in. Yeah man, I'm not going in on that, I'm not going to be able to leave between hook and Nasus debuff, and the Kai'sa in the back wasn't even in the ult. Baron is also up, so now we have to give that. We end up losing bottom and middle inhibs and only the top tower/inhib left, meanwhile we've only taken the outer towers and one middle inner tower.
Long story short, we had really strong dragon control, we fight over the Elder and Amumu gets the ult on the right people, they get aced and we go from middle inhib to dead nexus before they respawn. We were down on gold the entire game, by around 4k for most of it until the 42ish minute mark when we aced them and won, and I got a pretty well deserved S-.
I also checked my metrics relative to the other ranks, I'm operating at a silver level for most things, the only things I'm behind on are kill participation % and damage dealt. My farm and vision are on par with gold averages, so as long as I keep doing what I need to do I'll get wherever I need/want to be. I'm really not sure how to dramatically increase my damage numbers. I could and have been trying to be more active pre six on most of my champs, but I guess I'm not doing...something right during teamfights. Maybe my Diana ults are subpar or something.
I also checked my metrics relative to the other ranks, I'm operating at a silver level for most things, the only things I'm behind on are kill participation % and damage dealt. My farm and vision are on par with gold averages, so as long as I keep doing what I need to do I'll get wherever I need/want to be. I'm really not sure how to dramatically increase my damage numbers. I could and have been trying to be more active pre six on most of my champs, but I guess I'm not doing...something right during teamfights. Maybe my Diana ults are subpar or something.
As you note, you're pretty much on-track here, so yeah, keep at it. Climbing will happen eventually.
For junglers, though, you may want to check your pathing / clearing and make sure you're doing "optimal" routes. Lack of damage might be spending too much time traveling or clearing camps, though if other metrics are in-line that might not be an issue.
Me elsewhere:
Steam, various fora: Ivellius
League of Legends: Doctor Ivellius
Twitch, probably another place or two I forget: LPIvellius
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
I also checked my metrics relative to the other ranks, I'm operating at a silver level for most things, the only things I'm behind on are kill participation % and damage dealt. My farm and vision are on par with gold averages, so as long as I keep doing what I need to do I'll get wherever I need/want to be. I'm really not sure how to dramatically increase my damage numbers. I could and have been trying to be more active pre six on most of my champs, but I guess I'm not doing...something right during teamfights. Maybe my Diana ults are subpar or something.
As you note, you're pretty much on-track here, so yeah, keep at it. Climbing will happen eventually.
For junglers, though, you may want to check your pathing / clearing and make sure you're doing "optimal" routes. Lack of damage might be spending too much time traveling or clearing camps, though if other metrics are in-line that might not be an issue.
My clears are definitely not super optimal. I should probably work on that. Diana's clear is pretty easy, there isn't weird pathing or angles, it should probably just be mostly making sure I kite them out a bit to reduce travel time and actually count/line up my abilities. For example, making sure I have her passive, Q or W up for the final mini krugs.
Just got my first S game on Diana. Was a fucking 47 minute eight dragon slug fest because I count game length in how many god damn dragons spawned. We got 5 of the 8.
I do have a question when it goes that long, and obviously this is a corner case since games rarely do, but at a certain point should I be selling boots? I was buying elixirs but at the end I was still getting tons of gold. Diana is kind of a run at you champ to some extent though, so maybe the movement speed is worth it? Also what do you do for wards? I always want sweeper because it helps a lot when trying to take objectives, you can turn it on to just continually deny vision even if they clear the wards but it's super dangerous to face check things with it and when you can't see anything teammates die. Should I be switching to the long range trinket? I wish there was a separate inventory slot for control wards, and also that I had a dedicated control wards button. I want to keep them on 3 but as you buy shit it moves around.
As a heads-up, the first stage of the Mythic Shop rollout happened today, with the conversion of gemstones to the new currency and unvaulting of some of the old Prestige skins.
I also checked my metrics relative to the other ranks, I'm operating at a silver level for most things, the only things I'm behind on are kill participation % and damage dealt. My farm and vision are on par with gold averages, so as long as I keep doing what I need to do I'll get wherever I need/want to be. I'm really not sure how to dramatically increase my damage numbers. I could and have been trying to be more active pre six on most of my champs, but I guess I'm not doing...something right during teamfights. Maybe my Diana ults are subpar or something.
As you note, you're pretty much on-track here, so yeah, keep at it. Climbing will happen eventually.
For junglers, though, you may want to check your pathing / clearing and make sure you're doing "optimal" routes. Lack of damage might be spending too much time traveling or clearing camps, though if other metrics are in-line that might not be an issue.
My clears are definitely not super optimal. I should probably work on that. Diana's clear is pretty easy, there isn't weird pathing or angles, it should probably just be mostly making sure I kite them out a bit to reduce travel time and actually count/line up my abilities. For example, making sure I have her passive, Q or W up for the final mini krugs.
Just got my first S game on Diana. Was a fucking 47 minute eight dragon slug fest because I count game length in how many god damn dragons spawned. We got 5 of the 8.
I do have a question when it goes that long, and obviously this is a corner case since games rarely do, but at a certain point should I be selling boots? I was buying elixirs but at the end I was still getting tons of gold. Diana is kind of a run at you champ to some extent though, so maybe the movement speed is worth it? Also what do you do for wards? I always want sweeper because it helps a lot when trying to take objectives, you can turn it on to just continually deny vision even if they clear the wards but it's super dangerous to face check things with it and when you can't see anything teammates die. Should I be switching to the long range trinket? I wish there was a separate inventory slot for control wards, and also that I had a dedicated control wards button. I want to keep them on 3 but as you buy shit it moves around.
As Diana, don't sell your boots (I say this as a Diana mid player, but lategame it's the same thing). You need that movespeed to get in there, and the magic pen doesn't hurt.
As an ADC or artillery mage sometimes I sell my boots, depending on what teamfights look like.
For wards, you hope that someone else on your team, probably a couple people, have the blue ward and actually use it intelligently, as well as deploying other vision skills like Lux E, for example. But if your team is real dumb and can't figure out how to use the blue vision, you might realize that you'd rather be able to briefly shine a light on baron than deny vision. Feels like it's up to you to decide and there is not one real answer here.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
As a heads-up, the first stage of the Mythic Shop rollout happened today, with the conversion of gemstones to the new currency and unvaulting of some of the old Prestige skins.
I haven't gotten any gemstones at all so this content seems basically not for me. Which is tragic because the amumu and Diana skins look fuckin awesome.
I also checked my metrics relative to the other ranks, I'm operating at a silver level for most things, the only things I'm behind on are kill participation % and damage dealt. My farm and vision are on par with gold averages, so as long as I keep doing what I need to do I'll get wherever I need/want to be. I'm really not sure how to dramatically increase my damage numbers. I could and have been trying to be more active pre six on most of my champs, but I guess I'm not doing...something right during teamfights. Maybe my Diana ults are subpar or something.
As you note, you're pretty much on-track here, so yeah, keep at it. Climbing will happen eventually.
For junglers, though, you may want to check your pathing / clearing and make sure you're doing "optimal" routes. Lack of damage might be spending too much time traveling or clearing camps, though if other metrics are in-line that might not be an issue.
My clears are definitely not super optimal. I should probably work on that. Diana's clear is pretty easy, there isn't weird pathing or angles, it should probably just be mostly making sure I kite them out a bit to reduce travel time and actually count/line up my abilities. For example, making sure I have her passive, Q or W up for the final mini krugs.
Just got my first S game on Diana. Was a fucking 47 minute eight dragon slug fest because I count game length in how many god damn dragons spawned. We got 5 of the 8.
I do have a question when it goes that long, and obviously this is a corner case since games rarely do, but at a certain point should I be selling boots? I was buying elixirs but at the end I was still getting tons of gold. Diana is kind of a run at you champ to some extent though, so maybe the movement speed is worth it? Also what do you do for wards? I always want sweeper because it helps a lot when trying to take objectives, you can turn it on to just continually deny vision even if they clear the wards but it's super dangerous to face check things with it and when you can't see anything teammates die. Should I be switching to the long range trinket? I wish there was a separate inventory slot for control wards, and also that I had a dedicated control wards button. I want to keep them on 3 but as you buy shit it moves around.
As Diana, don't sell your boots (I say this as a Diana mid player, but lategame it's the same thing). You need that movespeed to get in there, and the magic pen doesn't hurt.
As an ADC or artillery mage sometimes I sell my boots, depending on what teamfights look like.
For wards, you hope that someone else on your team, probably a couple people, have the blue ward and actually use it intelligently, as well as deploying other vision skills like Lux E, for example. But if your team is real dumb and can't figure out how to use the blue vision, you might realize that you'd rather be able to briefly shine a light on baron than deny vision. Feels like it's up to you to decide and there is not one real answer here.
I figured the boots thing was a champ by champ basis so thanks for confirming.
The ward thing is annoying because I'm relying on the team to do one of two important things either way, when I used to be able to handle both parts myself. Like when I'm doing Baron and they're top right, I want to ward that bush behind the red buff! I'll have to see what the team does, in general I think it's more likely that they sweep than ward (because most of them weren't warding anyways).
And they're both pretty corner case since games rarely even go "what do I do about wards" long much less "do I need boots" long but it's good to have an idea in advance.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Gems were random drops from chests and had a higher chance of dropping from orbs and whatnot.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Decided to change things up a bit and dust off Soraka so I can use this giant pile of skins I own for a while.
Hey, that was fun, had three games in a row that my team-mates were competent and I really felt like I was contributing. Got one of my Mastery 7 tokens too.
*comes back a day later*
Okay, let's try this again.
...
...oh my god, did I get isekai'd to Idaho? Because I am surrounded by potatoes. Four games in a row.
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The second game the other team selected him which meant that I needed to pick someone else. Someone like Vi would probably be my other choice in that scenario but we were again, very AD heavy. I took Fiddlesticks and I did just good enough to not totally feed but I was definitely carried to victory that game.
Part of me just wants to keep going with Nocturne until I can hit Silver (I'm currently bouncing around in Bronze 1 between 1-50 LP), then I can branch out. It probably makes more sense to do all my discovery and learning in bronze, but I'm relatively close and even if I got bumped back down it would be nice to know that I do have that gear/capacity. On the other hand, I have to win 3/5 games in a promotion series, so it's anything but guaranteed I get there and the Nocturne overreliance could be a liability in those do or die games.
So one thing that is apparent is I need a fuckin AP jungler. I think it's going to be Diana because the burden of execution isn't insane and she's very strong. She also does what I like which is FUCKIN FARM. This is also a good choice for me because unlike Ekko there's no escape! You gotta commit and you gotta make good decisions or you're just dead. My other thought is Evelynn to deal psychic tilt damage to the enemy comp but she doesn't teamfight or engage nearly as well. I have had two serious games as Diana and one I did poorly and one I did well in. Both were losses but I can't control EVERYTHING. In the first game some ungodly 9/0/8 Nocturne shat all over my team as if to say "YOU MADE A TERRIBLE DECISION HAT" but he picked before me anyways so I couldn't have taken Nocturne if I wanted. I guess somehow he knew anyways, I guess all that Nocturne has given me a case of...paranoia.
I also need somebody who will make me play less passively and get out there. Start making some plays early. I was thinking about putting Vi back in the rotation for this but realistically she has a similar power spike to Nocturne. You can do a drive by gank after a 3 or 4 camp and do that, but she really wants to hit six and get going. My leading candidates in this spot are probably Volibear or Xin Zhao, possibly Warwick because I'm tired of that stupid champ somehow living and winning every 1v1.
Yeah I've always disliked Warwick from back in the og shitty looking summoner's rift days because I think his ult was just point and click and he did basically nothing else. He just felt dumb and one note, but I guess I should actually try him.
Just had my first win (over a Nocturne no less) and man it felt so good to tear shit up with Diana. She really does melt people. The lack of ways to leave a fight is pretty intimidating but when you can run in and ult like three of their teammates that's a good feeling.
Diana was my first jungle love but now that she's been re-worked I just can't rewire my brain to handle them swapping her e and r.
WW is the first champ I've played that actually makes me feel pretty good in that I feel truly impactful in the games where we win.
Yeah I think I might have to try him because there are just so many games where he rapidly spirals everything out of control. I've literally tried typing to people in chat "it's warwick, he's going to be strong and aggro early but he falls off so play safe!" and then they just feed and feed and it's just over. It's so rough because none of my junglers can 1v1 him early, although can anyone?
Can I introduce you to my lord and savior (when I get autofilled into jungle) Zac? Good clear, ganks from weird angles!
I have tried Zac quite a bit but for whatever reason haven't quite gelled with him. He really seems in the wheel house for things I like with his multiple cc and mobility but I've never been able to make him work. Amumu is my tanky aoe cc initiator guy.
Kindred is probably more along the lines of Kayn where I think the champ has a cool design but I dunno if I can handle making it work. It's the marks that stress me out a little bit.
Given that you seem to like champs I like, Volibear should be a solid pick-up.
Have you tried Lillia? I didn't expect to like her on release, but she's been my favorite champion of the past...5 years or so, I'd reckon, and you say you need an AP jungler.
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I haven't yet. She's been on my interest list but I'm not sure if she's going to be too technical to easily pick up.
In my opinion she is very much not. You have to "dance" around camps a bit, but it's pressing Q on cooldown and not so much about auto-attack kiting as much, if that makes sense. There's a bit of a rhythm to making her work, and deciding when to ult is always difficult (do you just sleep the one person, or do you need to save it for multiples in case a big teamfight or...[usually just sleep someone, it's fine]), but mechanically she's a lot easier for me than, say, Kindred or Viego.
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With two games on Volibear so far I can say he's pretty fun. He ganks and 1v1s pretty hard. If you can line up his slow shield aoe and the stun that's basically a kill or guaranteed flash on a laner. His dumb bear ultimate is just hilarious too. I think he has a good chance of moving to my regular rotation.
At the suggestion of @Ivellius I tried Lillia and she is indeed pretty fun. Only one game so far and her starting clear was iffy but her playstyle is pretty fun. She's so fast that whenever I would see the enemy jungler somewhere I would immediately beeline it to the other side of the map and clear his side so quickly. This weird deer girl is secretly General Sherman, constantly burning her way through the enemy resources. When she gets fed she also does a surprising amount of damage. It's also really amusing watching the opposing jungler make decisions in real time about fighting her. "This dumb deer is stealing my camps I'll show her! Yeah she's running away scared let me kill her. Oh dang she keeps hitting me from just out of range. I'll just go back to my camps. Oh no I can't leave she's too fast and she's chasing me now I guess I have to go back in oops now I'm dead."
Good recommendation.
Edit: I've played two games on Hecarim too and I think I can kind of expand on why he hasn't super clicked. He just doesn't have much CC. If you're doing a gank you can't keep your target around. You are fast but you can't make them slow, which means they can really easily retreat from you. Without ultimate your only real option say, after a flash, is to use the E to run past them and knock them back up the lane, but if they're very mobile they're just going to get out of there anyways. He also needs some time to ramp up his damage, so you combine his backloaded damage and less CC, then it feels hard to make that really successful with him.
I suppose the answer is to 1) be better at diving and 2) make sure to circle back if you've burnt their flash, but in general it seems like there are many fewer ganking opportunities available to him. There are going to be some laners that are much more difficult for him to capitalize on. Hecarim seems like a much stronger pick if you can guarantee CC in your lanes or know that your enemies are slow and bad at running away. This all really compounds in mid lane too, where it's just so quick and easy to get under tower.
Now there are 2k games of it on blitz.
You've played 1950 games already? That's some commitment
Final thoughts on Hecarim after a third game: I think my beef with him is he just doesn't do anything interesting when you get down to it. You press the W, does aoe damage around him. Press Q? Does aoe damage around him. You can E and R once in a fight and that's it. You're just running alongside things pressing Q indiscriminately.
Viego game 1: Viego is such a cool character and has a ton of room for skill expression but half the time I'm only vaguely aware of what champs do and even when I know I have to figure it out on the fly. There was a time I died when I inhabited Tristana. I knew I could jump out but I wasn't sure which button did that. I think he's a really strong 1v9 champion and has a fun playstyle with his combos and insane damage. I just don't think he'll be for me because of the passive. In order to become that 1v9 threat you need to know what the champs you're taking over do, so you can jump in, do their combo to get the enemy low, reuse the ultimate to execute, and repeat. He's also really bad at initiating fights and is pretty worthless if you're behind.
Evelynn game 1: I didn't get a leash and her first clear as a result is ROUGH. You're going to have to get a lot better at kiting to not fold immediately to any counterjungling. Despite having kind of a shit start in this game (I had to not clear gromp in order to not die) she still clears quickly after that first one and is a monster. 8/4/2 isn't a terrible line for my first game ever with her and it seems pretty clear that doing just slightly better on deaths would make a huge difference in the kill number since I was stacking dark seal/mejais. She does seem incredibly high stakes, very similar to Viego if you get crushed early it would seem like your game is entirely in the hands of your allies since what does an underfed Eve offer in late game teamfights? I guess she could potentially split push strongly?
I intend to finish out Lillia and Eve, I may not do all three with Viego because I have quite a few games on him, but it's been a while since I tried. I think Rek'sai, Taliyah, and Kindred are relatively high on my list to try (again). Although I did a practice mode clear with Taliyah and I didn't realize the angle of her skillshot is locked in after the first one so that seems incredibly difficult to land reliably. Overall she seems like a mechanically difficult champ. I still also really like Kayn's kit but I'm just so bad with him. I might put three games into seeing if I've gotten better at jungling overall to make him work though.
And it’s mostly just fun. I get to yell YEE HAW a lot due to High Noon being the best skin.
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That is my favorite thing about that skin on her too. It’s just perfect and fun.
Lillia: Another game, this time I didn't snowball so hard from the start and was against a powerful duelist and farmer in Shyvana. I learned quickly that she will rapidly clean my clock so I can't do that. Still managed to farm strong and be of use in team fights. Her ultimate is really good at preventing mobile champions from bailing out of losing team fights. Where before you might have gotten three or four kills, now you get the ace. Another thing I learned trying to aggressively path between camps, her initial clear is dicey if you have some things leash on you. I fucked up my blue buff and gromp double pull which meant I got really low. This shouldn't happen but it's something to note. Still fun, very unique playstyle. Strong possibility to add to the roster.
Evelynn: Two games in she's very fun but I don't think I can play her. When it goes off and everything works you feel amazing, but if you get even a little behind it's hard to claw your way back into the game and provide anything of use. Her first clear is also really dicey or maybe you need to kite significantly better than I did. I didn't get a leash in either game so that definitely contributes. I think she's a pocket pick at best unless you're really smurfing. I could see getting counterpicked by a strong early game jungler, being forced off your camps and essentially totally out of the game. This is a probably not for me.
Kindred: Kindred is fun, has a low start though but gains a lot of power late game. The ultimate is maybe one of the best things of the kit. The Talon jungle kept all inning me, I'd drop the ult and wait out the combo and be able to kill him after. That obviously won't work as people get smarter. The marks thing is fun but it's hard to not int for the marks and be like "OMG NEED." When you get ahead on farm though she reaaaaaally melts people and when you can do the Q forward to do the third hit on your E as they're running away for the execute it feels amazing. This is more of a maybe not although she definitely has 1v9 carry potential.
Clear was extremely suspect first go. Ganks were interesting? It really seems all in on can you land your WE combo or not. When you do land the combo it feels AMAZING though, especially in teamfights. She does a lot of damage with the Q spam which is fun. Seems like she holds under tower really strongly too with the mines and poke.
I definitely did a terrible ult on my team which I'm pretty sure lost the game. Obviously at my ELO lots of things lost the game but it was the last thing. I thought I was in a good spot to split the enemy team but the cast time is SO LONG that it just walled us from them after we used all our cooldowns. Ooooops. My bad.
I didn't even try to take objectives by myself I'm pretty sure she'd die.
Maybe she split pushes strongly? Using the ult to get in or out of lane quickly and is just generally fast/mobile?
I think Reksai's a fine enough champ, but she hasn't really clicked for me since her rework into a fighter / assassin. Old version was a tank with an AoE knock-up (her current is supposed to hit only a single target) and global teleport to one of her tunnels, and while I get why it happened it still makes me a little sad. Conceptually I do like her, at least.
Taliyah jungle I think is kind of like a more globally mobile Lillia: kite camps around with your Q, clear, gank with passive, and eventually you can just be places faster than other junglers. As you note, though, she's pretty reliant on landing her Shove combo, but once you get that down her ganks are difficult to avoid. I don't know that she's actually good right now, though I do have a League friend who's just good with Taliyah (although he usually plays her bot lane).
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I was going to respond to this more specifically but since I think I'm mostly done with my experimentation time I'll do this instead: Here's an overview of all of my various jungler thoughts and whether or not I'd actually consider playing them on a regular basis summed up in a few sentences. Not just the experimental ones I've done, but everyone I've played at least three games with in the last couple months. So this is long.
Diana: She does basically everything I want except for have an escape ability but you don't need to escape when you're going to MURDER EVERYONE.
Ekko: I think Ekko is fun and has really high skill expression but as an AP jungler he feels like a worse Diana, especially what I want in a jungler. I want someone who scales and has good initiation and teamfight contribution. He's very very cool and I think he's someone I might want to revisit after I can put more of just the general jungle mechanics on auto pilot.
Evelynn: When everything is clicking Evelynn feels so good, that ability to just melt a fool is fun. However, I have a problem with an assassin character who really wants to be the last person in on the fight later in the game. Sometimes I need my team to initiate and do something and in those situations Eve is just going to be waiting to clean up a fight that never happens.
Fiddlesticks: He's just fine. Crowstorm is neat.
Graves: At first I really liked Graves, he has a high health, easy clear, does lots of damage and can be a force in the late game. Then I looked at how long my clears were actually taking and how much optimizing you'd have to do to make it fast and I'm out.
Hecarim: This horse boy is just boring I think. You just Q spam things and you press your R and W one time and then you just do indiscriminate AOE damage.
Kayn: The one that I would like to play but I just cannot make work. I really like Rhaast's heart attack up and down HP tanking plan and it feels super badass when you can 1 v 3 people on the cusp of death just continually healing yourself. I'm just really bad at Kayn. Maybe it's how bad he is early or my decision making regarding going for orbs or farm.
Kindred: The ult is awesome and it's so fun to watch someone blow all their cooldowns on you while you put up the ult and use that time to also whittle away their health. However it seems like she can get really punished depending on the other jungler and the ease of getting in and out for marks. I also think it would take me a really long time to understand just how to get marks safely/reliably. Someone to revisit.
Lillia: Lillia's greatest flaw is that she competes with Diana for an AP jungler spot because Diana definitely has a larger impact on the game. Also, AP junglers aren't an always pick for the most part because that will make your team usually more AP heavy so your opponents just stack resist. Diana does get banned semi often though so I think Lillia will still stay somewhere in the rotation.
Nocturne: I still like Nocturne a lot! His kit is fun, he feels like one of the most quintessential junglers. Good fast clear, objective control, and strong ganks.
Nunu: I really liked Nunu when I played god, probably a decade ago, but then I played in a group. You can gank well but it's harder to carry with him. You need your teammates to carry you after you tee them up.
Rek'sai: I like this champion a lot but I don't think it's a great one for low ELO. What I don't understand is how you close the dang game out. In a higher ELO you can use your ganking to make sure your laners are very far ahead and then your team crushes the enemy, but in Bronze I don't think I can trust anyone to actually capitalize and grow the lead I gave them. For now I think Rek'sai is a pocket pick to revisit later.
Sejuani: Sejuani is TOO full tank. If you had a duo to play with I think she'd be amazing. Amumu engages and then he fucks everyone up. Sejuani has a much harder time fucking everyone up. Also old Sej was better.
Trundle: Good pillars are just so fucking satisfying but that's really the only thing really interesting about his kit. Obviously it's cool to fuck people up with your misleading 1v1 power but that's not a Trundle exclusive thing.
Udyr: Udyr is actually enjoyable to play which is kind of surprising given his kit. The best part is in the early game when you can walk up to most people and just fuck em up if you get your mitts on him. It feels like he really really falls off later though. He's really good at just chasing and fighting one person, he's kind of like NegaNocturne. Nocturne gets in really easy and tries to blow you up and can chase decently. Udyr does not get in easily but he can prevent you from ever leaving.
Vi: I do poorly with Vi for reasons I don't totally understand but you'd think she'd be almost archetypical for what I want to do in many ways. I might just have to brute force play her some more.
Viego: I like Viego's kit but I don't think I'll ever learn all the champs enough to know what the hell to do in those instances.
Volibear: This big dumb bear is really the standout and fits so much of what I was initially looking for. Strong early game ganking and 1v1 ability and doesn't totally fall off and become useless in the late game. I think he'll definitely be in the rotation.
Warwick: He doesn't press enough buttons and is boring.
Zac: I don't know why but I've never been able to make him work and it bums me out. He seems like something up my alley.
That's everyone. Going forward I'll probably play some mix of Diana, Nocturne, Volibear, Amumu, and Lillia. Maybe Vi. I feel like she should work better for me. Yes that's more than an ideal number of champs to climb with but like I dunno I need some variety. Maybe I'll sequester some to normals only but you can just tell normal games are not really a good area to grow/learn in long term.
Sounds like a good mix, honestly. Narrowing down even further might be ideal, but a lot of skills do translate over.
If it makes you feel better, I think Vi and Xin Zhao are two champs that I should be better at and am just not. Some are harder to click with than others for different players.
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edit:
This was the game.
Just, like. Are you really gonna complain about that performance? I mean really?
Vi protip: landing a Q period is more important than a charged Q, so if that's something you struggle with in fights or ganks try just using it as an AA reset. The real value is in the knockback and procking her passives not the damage. It's better as a reset after you've already initiated with a jungle creep too. I almost never charge it when playing rift unless an ally has hard CC.
Alright for all my testing, I've mostly been using Nocturne and Diana still to pretty good effect. I dragged myself out of bronze 3 back into middle bronze 2. Having said that, I've done a couple games on Volibear and split them, and two games on Rek'sai, both of which were wins somehow, so it's not like the experiment was totally useless. I know it really really doesn't matter at this elo but it is nice to be able to opt into a different strategy. My team has a lot of cc? Let's do Rek'sai or Volibear and really try to gank the shit out of them.
If we need AP, I've got Diana or Lillia, and for general purpose Nocturne fits into most things.
Volibear is such an early game house too, he takes dragon/herald strongly, has good ganks and counter.
I've also been trying a new Nocturne build after surfing the Nocturne mains reddit. Building Kraken Slayer makes you just MELT people it's pretty great.
My Diana is getting pretty decent. I've been trying to really do a level 3 gank if it's available. Her ganks aren't super amazing that early but it does a lot of damage and almost always gets a flash. She's also surprisingly sticky if they flash too late, I can recast the E to get them. I've been getting a bunch of A+ games on her, the S just keeps eluding me.
My last Nocturne game was maybe one of my best games ever as a total carry and kind of leading the team to what I needed them to do. Obviously this meant I had teammates that are leadable which is absolutely not a given. We had a mid Amumu who was tilting super hard and just casually calling everyone a retard. We also had a Zeri who kept disconnecting but she wasn't feeding and she was doing okay overall. I knew this was winnable because the enemy team was Darius top, jungle Nunu, mid Kai'sa, support Nasus (WHY?) and Jinx. They're just all damage and a weak Nasus who, I think offset our intermittent Zeri issue. Basically, I needed to get the Amumu to ult the right people and then I could clean up their squishy ADCs and it would be done.
One teamfight he ults Nasus and Darius and then calls us all dumb cunts or whatever. Dude, you need to AOE the SQUISHIES. So we do another teamfight and he gets it right and it goes to plan. We're now pushing up middle inhib later in the game and he Qs in, ults the Nasus and Darius under the tower and then yells at us for being too scared to go in. Yeah man, I'm not going in on that, I'm not going to be able to leave between hook and Nasus debuff, and the Kai'sa in the back wasn't even in the ult. Baron is also up, so now we have to give that. We end up losing bottom and middle inhibs and only the top tower/inhib left, meanwhile we've only taken the outer towers and one middle inner tower.
Long story short, we had really strong dragon control, we fight over the Elder and Amumu gets the ult on the right people, they get aced and we go from middle inhib to dead nexus before they respawn. We were down on gold the entire game, by around 4k for most of it until the 42ish minute mark when we aced them and won, and I got a pretty well deserved S-.
I also checked my metrics relative to the other ranks, I'm operating at a silver level for most things, the only things I'm behind on are kill participation % and damage dealt. My farm and vision are on par with gold averages, so as long as I keep doing what I need to do I'll get wherever I need/want to be. I'm really not sure how to dramatically increase my damage numbers. I could and have been trying to be more active pre six on most of my champs, but I guess I'm not doing...something right during teamfights. Maybe my Diana ults are subpar or something.
As you note, you're pretty much on-track here, so yeah, keep at it. Climbing will happen eventually.
For junglers, though, you may want to check your pathing / clearing and make sure you're doing "optimal" routes. Lack of damage might be spending too much time traveling or clearing camps, though if other metrics are in-line that might not be an issue.
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My clears are definitely not super optimal. I should probably work on that. Diana's clear is pretty easy, there isn't weird pathing or angles, it should probably just be mostly making sure I kite them out a bit to reduce travel time and actually count/line up my abilities. For example, making sure I have her passive, Q or W up for the final mini krugs.
Just got my first S game on Diana. Was a fucking 47 minute eight dragon slug fest because I count game length in how many god damn dragons spawned. We got 5 of the 8.
I do have a question when it goes that long, and obviously this is a corner case since games rarely do, but at a certain point should I be selling boots? I was buying elixirs but at the end I was still getting tons of gold. Diana is kind of a run at you champ to some extent though, so maybe the movement speed is worth it? Also what do you do for wards? I always want sweeper because it helps a lot when trying to take objectives, you can turn it on to just continually deny vision even if they clear the wards but it's super dangerous to face check things with it and when you can't see anything teammates die. Should I be switching to the long range trinket? I wish there was a separate inventory slot for control wards, and also that I had a dedicated control wards button. I want to keep them on 3 but as you buy shit it moves around.
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As Diana, don't sell your boots (I say this as a Diana mid player, but lategame it's the same thing). You need that movespeed to get in there, and the magic pen doesn't hurt.
As an ADC or artillery mage sometimes I sell my boots, depending on what teamfights look like.
For wards, you hope that someone else on your team, probably a couple people, have the blue ward and actually use it intelligently, as well as deploying other vision skills like Lux E, for example. But if your team is real dumb and can't figure out how to use the blue vision, you might realize that you'd rather be able to briefly shine a light on baron than deny vision. Feels like it's up to you to decide and there is not one real answer here.
I haven't gotten any gemstones at all so this content seems basically not for me. Which is tragic because the amumu and Diana skins look fuckin awesome.
I figured the boots thing was a champ by champ basis so thanks for confirming.
The ward thing is annoying because I'm relying on the team to do one of two important things either way, when I used to be able to handle both parts myself. Like when I'm doing Baron and they're top right, I want to ward that bush behind the red buff! I'll have to see what the team does, in general I think it's more likely that they sweep than ward (because most of them weren't warding anyways).
And they're both pretty corner case since games rarely even go "what do I do about wards" long much less "do I need boots" long but it's good to have an idea in advance.
Hey, that was fun, had three games in a row that my team-mates were competent and I really felt like I was contributing. Got one of my Mastery 7 tokens too.
*comes back a day later*
Okay, let's try this again.
...
...oh my god, did I get isekai'd to Idaho? Because I am surrounded by potatoes. Four games in a row.
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Once you get good at Lilia you can single handedly end team fights with flash, Q, R into zhonya’s.
People complain about Zoe but you can do that to whole enemy teams.
EDIT: Also Diana can't do this shit:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hBhesW08KJU?&ab_channel=AllenTsai
Or this:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/F9J--7l2ktM?&ab_channel=Hitcap
I'm M7 on Lilia with her being my most played by miles so feel free to ask questions.