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Stilettos and Shadows (and other tabletop games)

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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    I have two questions regarding Apollo 47…

    Why????

    And

    Why do I desperately want to buy it?!?!?

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    I'm not going to buy it but I did already buy the Thousand Year Old Vampire secret companion book, so I do already have some weird Tim Hutchings ephemera.

    To explain that one, you need to understand what Thousand Year Old Vampire is - it's fundamentally a game about memory loss, growing older and carrying around objects that you've forgotten the origin of or having strange encounters that are dependent on things that happened to you which you have no recollection of. You are always creating new memories, but you are always forgetting the old ones to make room. It is, to be clear, an incredible RPG.

    And then the companion book
    is just a reprint of the book with all of the text removed. Design elements are all there, you can see where the text would be, but the words are gone forever.

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    DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    edited April 2022
    Straightzi wrote: »
    I'm not going to buy it but I did already buy the Thousand Year Old Vampire secret companion book, so I do already have some weird Tim Hutchings ephemera.

    To explain that one, you need to understand what Thousand Year Old Vampire is - it's fundamentally a game about memory loss, growing older and carrying around objects that you've forgotten the origin of or having strange encounters that are dependent on things that happened to you which you have no recollection of. You are always creating new memories, but you are always forgetting the old ones to make room. It is, to be clear, an incredible RPG.

    And then the companion book
    is just a reprint of the book with all of the text removed. Design elements are all there, you can see where the text would be, but the words are gone forever.

    Holy shit, that is a fucking amazing idea

    edit: if I hadn't just literally bought the Apollo 47 book I'd see if I could buy that one right now

    Darmak on
    JtgVX0H.png
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    DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    Wait, I have almost enough left of my fun money to buy both it AND the regular rulebook...

    JtgVX0H.png
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    Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    Darmak wrote: »
    Athenor wrote: »
    I think the best part about that kind of banal, mundane stuff is that you could hide some very freaky things in those manual pages and no one would notice for quite some time.

    "Please depress the green button labeled U-54 before you yank on the exposed tendon in the alien tentacle, then flick switches labeled Xa1, Xa2, and Xc14"

    You guys are already playing the game wrong: " If something exciting happens please stop play immediately and go do something else–you are in the wrong game."

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    DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    Pssh, that's not exciting

    ...or is it? 🤔

    JtgVX0H.png
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    Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    I've got a preview of Apollo 47's first expansion

    q50l2ridmq9e.jpg
    For the unaware that's a printout of Apollo 11's guidance computer program, and Margaret Hamilton, the computer scientist who led the team that created it

    Basically the first thing I thought of when reading about Apollo 47

    [Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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    DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    Welp, I have no self control and bought Thousand Year Old Vampire and it's companion book. Thanks a lot, Obama Straightzi

    JtgVX0H.png
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    Virgil_Leads_YouVirgil_Leads_You Proud Father House GardenerRegistered User regular
    Was listening to some OSR videos, and was thinking on the RPG community split on logistics.
    NO TORCHES, would be a fun RPG to make. Go to the other extreme, tho maybe not as far as Lasers and Feelings.

    VayBJ4e.png
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    GlaziusGlazius Registered User regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Reynolds wrote: »
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I backed Masks and will never get the chance to play it ever.

    Why not though?

    Lack of willing people
    Reynolds wrote: »
    I'm willing! Let's go.
    I live on the opposite side of the world to you guys but I’d turn up to a Masks game occasionally. I wanna be a creepy Chinese hungry ghost that’s good, or the most idealistic heroic Superman but he has dreads, smokes and is a surfer so the media hate him, or a kid that’s inherited their dad’s mantle as The Dark Fathom but they’re just a cute nerd…
    I don't know that I could fit another game in but I've ached to play Gumshoe, my detective with stretchy powers, for a very long time.

    Welp, time to light the incense and invoke the ancient compact:

    I'd like to run it over voice chat
    We can use the forum discord
    Sunday's best for me
    Does it work for you
    Plan for 2-3 hours runtime
    We have US Eastern and Pacific what are your time zones
    I play best with 3-4 others but could stretch to five

    Masks is a game about teenage superheroes. There are a variety of potential settings available, and while you don't necessarily have to be a teenager, usually the biggest flex on that is just to make someone who's a teenager in alien years. Your identity needs to be as in flux and your place in society as uncertain as a reference Earth teenager.

    The core playbooks and basic moves are available for download from Magpie Games. Additional playbooks are buy-ins, I have 'em all, and if you do too you can try to talk me into letting you use one. When you're thinking about what kind of hero you want to be, here's a thing to think about.

    The Beacon has been outside the hero world, looking in. Now, they're jumping into it, headfirst, ready or not. If you think the most important thing about joining a super team is the potential for a big adventure, you're probably a Beacon.

    The Bull is a wreckin' machine. They act like their heart is just as invincible as the rest of them. If you think the most important thing about joining a super team is the increased magnitude of dude you can attempt to punch, and then gesture appropriately to someone in the watching crowd, you're probably a Bull.

    The Delinquent is a hellraiser. They feel the world trying to shape them and they resent it. If you think the most important thing about joining a super team is the greater number of rules you can get away with breaking, you're probably a Delinquent.

    The Doomed bears the burden of fate. However powerful they are, they know the future will not be kind to them. If you're worried about joining a super team because of the price they'll have to pay for associating with you, you're probably Doomed.

    The Janus is outside the hero world, looking in. There are people and places they can't leave and can't bring into the hero world with them. Leaving is what the mask is for. If you think the most important thing about joining a super team is helping the people you care about outside it, you're probably a Janus.

    The Legacy is not the first of their name. However powerful they are, they know the past will have much to demand of them. If you think the most important thing about joining a super team is the clout it will get you among the established heroes of the city, you're probably a Legacy.

    The Nova bears the burden of power. There's so much beauty in the world, but it's all so fragile. If you're worried about joining a super team because of what you might break, you're probably a Nova.

    The Outsider is not from around here, for a sufficiently scaled map of "here". However powerful they are, they find something alluring in this society but have no standing in it. If you think the most important thing about joining a super team is finally getting someone to trust you, you're probably an Outsider.

    The Protege is both more and less than their mentor. Unlike the Legacy, only one person sits in judgment of them, but one person can be more than enough. If you think the most important thing about joining a super team is that you'll finally have your own social circle instead of borrowing someone else's secondhand, you're probably a Protege.

    The Transformed wasn't always like this. The workaday world can't understand them anymore. The hero world just might. If you're worried about joining a super team because soon they'll be hated just like you, you're probably Transformed.

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    ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    edited April 2022
    Is there any space on the PA Discord for recurring games? I've never really looked. I'm on a few RPG Discords where I could probably make a space for something like this, if you wanted. Although others might have better dedicated spaces for that.

    I just started scheduling some new campaigns for Sundays myself, though.

    Reynolds on
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    cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Bears The Name FreedomRegistered User regular
    Reynolds wrote: »
    Is there any space on the PA Discord for recurring games? I've never really looked. I'm on a few RPG Discords where I could probably make a space for something like this, if you wanted. Although others might have better dedicated spaces for that.

    I just stared scheduling some new campaigns for Sundays myself, though.

    Not at present, but could always request one. I've debated running a game myself that way at some point, but I've never had players want to do anything other than PBP, soo...

    wVEsyIc.png
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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    Trying to think on what Angels, Demons, and Devils are to my setting. One of the largest cities of the world is at the end of the Eternal Empire. A holy Roman Empire analog ruled by Jesus mixed with Budda. When my God was killed in a holy war his giant form became the foundation of the holy City Elysium(or better name I eventually figure out). His power was splintered and the first to claim a God-Sliver became "Eziekiel the fifth Dawn, the Idol of Creation, Living God" who is regularly reborn. He builds the Angels as manifestations of his will. The body of the god leaking and decays and in the undercity of Elysium and form into Demons.

    I was thinking that Devils might the remains of an army created by the Second. A nameless God who was 2nd to claim a piece of Gods power and the 1st to be locked away in the infinity Snare by Eziekiel.

    Quire.jpg
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Looking into this made me realize I never got a whole bunch of the books I backed.

    Whoops, on me, I guess.

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    BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    Darmak wrote: »
    Straightzi wrote: »
    I'm not going to buy it but I did already buy the Thousand Year Old Vampire secret companion book, so I do already have some weird Tim Hutchings ephemera.

    To explain that one, you need to understand what Thousand Year Old Vampire is - it's fundamentally a game about memory loss, growing older and carrying around objects that you've forgotten the origin of or having strange encounters that are dependent on things that happened to you which you have no recollection of. You are always creating new memories, but you are always forgetting the old ones to make room. It is, to be clear, an incredible RPG.

    And then the companion book
    is just a reprint of the book with all of the text removed. Design elements are all there, you can see where the text would be, but the words are gone forever.

    Holy shit, that is a fucking amazing idea

    edit: if I hadn't just literally bought the Apollo 47 book I'd see if I could buy that one right now

    That would be a fun idea to play in VTR with the mirrors book
    as in the mirrors book had a story idea of playing a post apoc world with the vampire protecting their people as you would have to choose of how many can you protect and all the other aspects of being a vampire
    So adding in that being a vampire awakened from torpor

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    Indie WinterIndie Winter die Krähe Rudi Hurzlmeier (German, b. 1952)Registered User regular
    edited April 2022
    @nightmarenny a neat and relatively unknown name for a holy city based/inspired by abrahamic faith could be Heftziba, an obscure name for Jerusalem mentioned in Isaiah: "Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken, neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate; but thou shalt be called Heftziba [My wish/want/desire is in her], and thy land, Espoused; for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be fertile."

    it also sounds appropriately RPG-ish!

    Indie Winter on
    wY6K6Jb.gif
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    nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    @nightmarenny a neat and relatively unknown name for a holy city based/inspired by abrahamic faith could be Heftziba, an obscure name for Jerusalem mentioned in Isaiah: "Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken, neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate; but thou shalt be called Heftziba [My wish/want/desire is in her], and thy land, Espoused; for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be fertile."

    it also sounds appropriately RPG-ish!

    Oh that is for sure going on the list for another city if not this one. That rules.

    @Glazius I'm afraid I can't do weekends so sounds like I'm out. Good lucking getting things together guys. It seems really cool.

    Quire.jpg
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Reynolds wrote: »
    Is there any space on the PA Discord for recurring games? I've never really looked. I'm on a few RPG Discords where I could probably make a space for something like this, if you wanted. Although others might have better dedicated spaces for that.

    I just stared scheduling some new campaigns for Sundays myself, though.

    Not at present, but could always request one. I've debated running a game myself that way at some point, but I've never had players want to do anything other than PBP, soo...

    I mean, we could appropriate one of the empty rooms. But yeah, I'd be down.

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    pookapooka Registered User regular
    edited April 2022
    I've got my eye on various RPGs, such asssssss Monster Care Squad (thank you, whoever mentioned it), Dialect (and all their other games, ooh), and Thousand Year Old Vampire (and now I know of it, Magical Year of A Teenage Witch, a lighter rework of TYOV, reminiscent of Kiki's Delivery Service.) The gameplay of TYOV seems really appealing, but I think the storytelling strays a bit too close to my own issues with memory and borderlands of depression, so I'm not yet ready for that one, and the cozy version might be a good alternative.

    Downloaded Of Moon and Leaf, so will see how I do with journaling games before committing cash.

    But man, I am slow flipping my shit because I discovered a couple weeks ago that a former college classmate does boardgame reviews on YouTube and is an academic tangentially dabbling in ludology. Which was startling to come across, and I think that surprise is largely based in the meritocracy.
    This person was an outlier in our group of weirdos and kind of a controlling, competitive jerk (and looking back at behaviors, maybe those were holistic symptoms beyond 'emotional vampire', hmm. Anyway.) Not... irredeemably horrible perhaps, I can't armchair psychologist two decades out, but... Had Issues, and displayed a menu of negative emotions on all of us to varying degrees and seemingly never practiced self awareness during our acquaintance nor responded well to feedback.

    The fact that I remember any of their nonsense speaks volumes, since my memory fog, especially of that time, dims out most everything to vague feelings more than events. I wasn't traumatized --more defensive of my friends-- it just feels weird to have this kinda toxic person drift out of the past.

    And now they present in the Dice Tower network, which has saturation, for sure. /shade

    One of those moments where you hope a shithead worked themselves out and isn't just failing upwards.
    I was baffled, I guess, and a sliver of territorial and jealous (the latter is my own sense of inadequacy rather than envy; I don't want what they have, I want better of myself.)

    And I don't think I should have been surprised, purely looking at how this person behaved in the past (attention-seeking), and our common interests, versus my expectations of the results of those various negative behaviors, ie, an emotional meritocracy apparently still lives in my head, at least in this one case.

    This person was bad to my friends, clearly had baggage, was there ever remorse, ownership, growth, etc in the path to seeming success?! Any thought shows this is silly. 1: people compartmentalize all the time, if it's not full cognitive dissonance; emotional honesty is not a required skill to succeed in many careers, and a detriment in lots. And 2: I haven't meaningfully witnessed the intervening years (because who puts their full life on Facebook?) So maybe there was work to be a better person. But humans tend to assume consistency, so.

    Clearly I feel that active sociopaths don't deserve success, tho.

    Just the minor morality play / self-reflection of my week...

    pooka on
    lfchwLd.jpg
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    Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    Trying to think on what Angels, Demons, and Devils are to my setting. One of the largest cities of the world is at the end of the Eternal Empire. A holy Roman Empire analog ruled by Jesus mixed with Budda. When my God was killed in a holy war his giant form became the foundation of the holy City Elysium(or better name I eventually figure out). His power was splintered and the first to claim a God-Sliver became "Eziekiel the fifth Dawn, the Idol of Creation, Living God" who is regularly reborn. He builds the Angels as manifestations of his will. The body of the god leaking and decays and in the undercity of Elysium and form into Demons.

    I was thinking that Devils might the remains of an army created by the Second. A nameless God who was 2nd to claim a piece of Gods power and the 1st to be locked away in the infinity Snare by Eziekiel.

    I think there’s something timeless about devils being fallen angels. Maybe the First shared his power, and whoever that was hoped to corrupt his angels and take over. You can even keep it a mystery whether the fallen angels came willingly or were corrupted by the Second. In exile, the fallen angels, now called devils, lacked the means to make more of themselves, which is where you get your regular monsters who act as their servants.

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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    nightmarenny a neat and relatively unknown name for a holy city based/inspired by abrahamic faith could be Heftziba, an obscure name for Jerusalem mentioned in Isaiah: "Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken, neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate; but thou shalt be called Heftziba [My wish/want/desire is in her], and thy land, Espoused; for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be fertile."

    it also sounds appropriately RPG-ish!

    That's interesting, I just looked this up and it seems like "Heftziba" could also be transliterated "Hepzibah", which is a name I'm mainly familiar with from Marvel comics

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    DepressperadoDepressperado I just wanted to see you laughing in the pizza rainRegistered User regular
    edited April 2022
    I knew a girl named Hephzibah, her parents were possibly the only catholic hippies in existence. definitely the only ones I ever met.

    they were real chill and let us smoke weed at their house but we had to keep it light with the cursing

    edit: her nickname was "Hep" which was not ideal.

    Depressperado on
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    DepressperadoDepressperado I just wanted to see you laughing in the pizza rainRegistered User regular
    Trying to think on what Angels, Demons, and Devils are to my setting. One of the largest cities of the world is at the end of the Eternal Empire. A holy Roman Empire analog ruled by Jesus mixed with Budda. When my God was killed in a holy war his giant form became the foundation of the holy City Elysium(or better name I eventually figure out). His power was splintered and the first to claim a God-Sliver became "Eziekiel the fifth Dawn, the Idol of Creation, Living God" who is regularly reborn. He builds the Angels as manifestations of his will. The body of the god leaking and decays and in the undercity of Elysium and form into Demons.

    I was thinking that Devils might the remains of an army created by the Second. A nameless God who was 2nd to claim a piece of Gods power and the 1st to be locked away in the infinity Snare by Eziekiel.

    I think there’s something timeless about devils being fallen angels. Maybe the First shared his power, and whoever that was hoped to corrupt his angels and take over. You can even keep it a mystery whether the fallen angels came willingly or were corrupted by the Second. In exile, the fallen angels, now called devils, lacked the means to make more of themselves, which is where you get your regular monsters who act as their servants.

    there could be a Morgoth angle, where like, the Second or just Devils can't create, they can only twist and ruin things. That way you can have a big variety of enemies, twisted creatures, and some very unsettling enemies in twisted sentients.

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    nightmarenny a neat and relatively unknown name for a holy city based/inspired by abrahamic faith could be Heftziba, an obscure name for Jerusalem mentioned in Isaiah: "Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken, neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate; but thou shalt be called Heftziba [My wish/want/desire is in her], and thy land, Espoused; for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be fertile."

    it also sounds appropriately RPG-ish!

    That's interesting, I just looked this up and it seems like "Heftziba" could also be transliterated "Hepzibah", which is a name I'm mainly familiar with from Marvel comics

    She was the wife of Hezekiah, also

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    gavindelgavindel The reason all your software is brokenRegistered User regular
    Trying to think on what Angels, Demons, and Devils are to my setting. One of the largest cities of the world is at the end of the Eternal Empire. A holy Roman Empire analog ruled by Jesus mixed with Budda. When my God was killed in a holy war his giant form became the foundation of the holy City Elysium(or better name I eventually figure out). His power was splintered and the first to claim a God-Sliver became "Eziekiel the fifth Dawn, the Idol of Creation, Living God" who is regularly reborn. He builds the Angels as manifestations of his will. The body of the god leaking and decays and in the undercity of Elysium and form into Demons.

    I was thinking that Devils might the remains of an army created by the Second. A nameless God who was 2nd to claim a piece of Gods power and the 1st to be locked away in the infinity Snare by Eziekiel.

    Well, angels are by defined by their relationship to god, god(s), or God. Since you're going with a dead god body, might want to lift stuff out of Exalted's Autochthon. Another good source if you want more mechanistic angels is the new World of Darkness, where the Demons line is basically being an edgy hacker and angels themselves are mere expressions of an unseen force.

    If that doesn't seem comprehensive enough, I recommend starting a 5 book series that will take 10 years to complete and write several million words on the topic.

    Book - Royal road - Free! Seraphim === TTRPG - Wuxia - Free! Seln Alora
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    DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    I've always liked how angels are presented in Heart: The City Beneath. Implacable horrors that show up if you get too rowdy (or for a reason completely unrelated to you, but you're in the way)
    ANGEL
    They are red and terrible and mighty. They bring
    with them waking dreams of chaos and unmaking, a screeching, scraping song of rust and ashes.
    The angels of the Heart, as they are known by the
    inhabitants of the place, are thankfully rare.
    When the cosmic intelligence at the centre of
    the City Beneath needs something done quickly
    and without subtlety, it will create one and dis‐
    patch it with a specific mission: the destruction of
    a haven that’s encroaching on valuable resources,
    avenging the death of a beloved creature, reclaiming something that’s been taken, and so on.
    As they enter an area, it shifts into an unreal land‐
    scape. Walls pulse and seep interstitial fluid, the
    sound of grinding teeth drowns out all rational
    thought,and eyes blossom on every available surface.
    NAMES: Crimsonian, Vulperine, Theolosian
    (anyone who witnesses an angel knows its name
    instinctively; indeed, they are unable to forget it)
    DESCRIPTORS: A noise like tearing meat and
    screaming gristle; Wet red streamers coalescing and spiralling into the shape of an elongated humanoid; An immobile statue of bone
    with floating masks that shimmer and reform
    as it speaks.
    MOTIVATION: Each angel is created to fulfil a specific objective, and can’t understand things that
    aren’t its objective. Sometimes they can’t complete their mission and their programming breaks down, making them even more inscrutable.

    JtgVX0H.png
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    Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    Okay genuine question: Has there ever being a 'you can substitute X stat for Y' class feature/feat in a 'traditional' (Read, D&Desque/fantasy combat focused) game that hasn't caused builds to feel weird and horrible?

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    ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited April 2022
    Okay genuine question: Has there ever being a 'you can substitute X stat for Y' class feature/feat in a 'traditional' (Read, D&Desque/fantasy combat focused) game that hasn't caused builds to feel weird and horrible?

    Do Weapon Finesse / Fencing Grace / Slashing Grace, etc., from D&D 3.XE / Pathfinder count as weird / horrible?

    Elvenshae on
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    Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Okay genuine question: Has there ever being a 'you can substitute X stat for Y' class feature/feat in a 'traditional' (Read, D&Desque/fantasy combat focused) game that hasn't caused builds to feel weird and horrible?

    Do Weapon Finesse / Fencing Grace / Slashing Grace, etc., from D&D 3.XE / Pathfinder count as weird / horrible?

    I'm not sure, I'm mostly thinking of any feature that reads "Charisma is now your defensive stat" or similar. In Symbaroum it fucks the game up hugely because accuracy no longer exists and in D&D there's a few cases that just makes your character feel like ass.

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    StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Weapon finesse is the big one, I think. It's definitely handled more elegantly in other instances (personally I prefer being proficient with finesse based weapons representing knowing how to properly use a finesse based weapon), but it represents a clear concept and provides a clear benefit in a way that I feel many of those features don't really.

    If that's not what you're talking about, do you have a more specific example available?

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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    I’m guessing like: Barbarian can now add their CON to AC.

    Which, yeah, I hate that. You can collapse all your scaling on to a mono stat and break the game in a worst case scenario.

    I much prefer: every stat is useful to every class, decide what you’ll be good at and what you’ll struggle at.

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    A duck!A duck! Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited April 2022
    I feel like Hexblades using their Charisma stat and Blade singers using Intelligence for both casting and physical attacks is a thing that probably shouldn't have happened. I understand they probably don't want to make those subclasses too MAD, but they also didn't give that consideration to any other hybrids.

    Edit - I don't think I agree with the Barbarian and Monk situation, though. Both classes have armor restrictions so they instead basically have an attribute tax to help keep up.

    A duck! on
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    gavindelgavindel The reason all your software is brokenRegistered User regular
    Darmak wrote: »
    I've always liked how angels are presented in Heart: The City Beneath. Implacable horrors that show up if you get too rowdy (or for a reason completely unrelated to you, but you're in the way)
    ANGEL
    They are red and terrible and mighty. They bring
    with them waking dreams of chaos and unmaking, a screeching, scraping song of rust and ashes.
    The angels of the Heart, as they are known by the
    inhabitants of the place, are thankfully rare.
    When the cosmic intelligence at the centre of
    the City Beneath needs something done quickly
    and without subtlety, it will create one and dis‐
    patch it with a specific mission: the destruction of
    a haven that’s encroaching on valuable resources,
    avenging the death of a beloved creature, reclaiming something that’s been taken, and so on.
    As they enter an area, it shifts into an unreal land‐
    scape. Walls pulse and seep interstitial fluid, the
    sound of grinding teeth drowns out all rational
    thought,and eyes blossom on every available surface.
    NAMES: Crimsonian, Vulperine, Theolosian
    (anyone who witnesses an angel knows its name
    instinctively; indeed, they are unable to forget it)
    DESCRIPTORS: A noise like tearing meat and
    screaming gristle; Wet red streamers coalescing and spiralling into the shape of an elongated humanoid; An immobile statue of bone
    with floating masks that shimmer and reform
    as it speaks.
    MOTIVATION: Each angel is created to fulfil a specific objective, and can’t understand things that
    aren’t its objective. Sometimes they can’t complete their mission and their programming breaks down, making them even more inscrutable.

    Ah, yes. That highlights a big narrative hurdle. Do you want your players to punch your angels/demons or run from them? If they have stats the system implies they can be killed (or at least discorporated). If not, then the angel/demon should really be modeled like a walking thunderstorm.

    (Same holds true for the gods themselves. I will spare you my hour long rant on how stupid statting a God was in 3.5e...)

    Book - Royal road - Free! Seraphim === TTRPG - Wuxia - Free! Seln Alora
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    webguy20webguy20 I spend too much time on the Internet Registered User regular
    edited April 2022
    A duck! wrote: »
    I feel like Hexblades using their Charisma stat and Blade singers using Intelligence for both casting and physical attacks is a thing that probably shouldn't have happened. I understand they probably don't want to make those subclasses too MAD, but they also didn't give that consideration to any other hybrids.

    Edit - I don't think I agree with the Barbarian and Monk situation, though. Both classes have armor restrictions so they instead basically have an attribute tax to help keep up.

    Also unless you’re rolling stats, the Barbarian con/dex AC is going to be middling at best. Or you get one of the magic items that bumps a stat to 19.

    I will say that past level 3 my multiclass warlock/paladin that had everything keyed off charisma WAS pretty silly.

    webguy20 on
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    DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    gavindel wrote: »
    Darmak wrote: »
    I've always liked how angels are presented in Heart: The City Beneath. Implacable horrors that show up if you get too rowdy (or for a reason completely unrelated to you, but you're in the way)
    ANGEL
    They are red and terrible and mighty. They bring
    with them waking dreams of chaos and unmaking, a screeching, scraping song of rust and ashes.
    The angels of the Heart, as they are known by the
    inhabitants of the place, are thankfully rare.
    When the cosmic intelligence at the centre of
    the City Beneath needs something done quickly
    and without subtlety, it will create one and dis‐
    patch it with a specific mission: the destruction of
    a haven that’s encroaching on valuable resources,
    avenging the death of a beloved creature, reclaiming something that’s been taken, and so on.
    As they enter an area, it shifts into an unreal land‐
    scape. Walls pulse and seep interstitial fluid, the
    sound of grinding teeth drowns out all rational
    thought,and eyes blossom on every available surface.
    NAMES: Crimsonian, Vulperine, Theolosian
    (anyone who witnesses an angel knows its name
    instinctively; indeed, they are unable to forget it)
    DESCRIPTORS: A noise like tearing meat and
    screaming gristle; Wet red streamers coalescing and spiralling into the shape of an elongated humanoid; An immobile statue of bone
    with floating masks that shimmer and reform
    as it speaks.
    MOTIVATION: Each angel is created to fulfil a specific objective, and can’t understand things that
    aren’t its objective. Sometimes they can’t complete their mission and their programming breaks down, making them even more inscrutable.

    Ah, yes. That highlights a big narrative hurdle. Do you want your players to punch your angels/demons or run from them? If they have stats the system implies they can be killed (or at least discorporated). If not, then the angel/demon should really be modeled like a walking thunderstorm.

    (Same holds true for the gods themselves. I will spare you my hour long rant on how stupid statting a God was in 3.5e...)

    The angels in Heart do have stats, I just didn't copy them here to save space. But even if killed, they eventually reform (I think nearby? Maybe not immediately either? I forget the specifics) and continue to do whatever they were doing. But defeating one should allow you to try and finish whatever you were doing when they interrupted you. But you will definitely feel the effects of fighting one, whether via injury or depletion of resources or whatever.

    There's even a supplement for Heart that describes how to start your own haven, and it stats out 4 specific angels you could use to ruin your player's shit (either as-is, or as more inspiration for your own creations)

    JtgVX0H.png
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    ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I much prefer: every stat is useful to every class, decide what you’ll be good at and what you’ll struggle at.

    I love this idea. Is there a d20 fantasy game that does this?

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    DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
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    Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    Hmmmmmm…

    Hmmmmmmmm

    Almost. You have very nearly got me to buy a D&D product.

    I do like me some spell jam though…

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    Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    I’m straight up sweating phlogiston over here.

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