And along a similar vein, going back to Valeera...
I can't think when you'd ever want to use Ambush over her stun+blind or silence. The silence ends up doing more total damage by itself and prevents escapes. The stun similarly so. The silence/blind takes them out of the fight better if you can't insta-kill them.
Can't think of an instance where the -10 armor would end up being more damage than all the extra hits the stun or silence would allow you to land. If the rest of your team was about to land a bunch of nukes the exact instant you use Ambush and the extra 10% would make the difference in an instant kill???
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The Escape Goatincorrigible ruminantthey/themRegistered Userregular
CC Is Good, yes
if I had to guess the armor shred could be useful if your team is trying to kill a low-mobility tank? but generally speaking choosing CC is the way to go
if I had to guess the armor shred could be useful if your team is trying to kill a low-mobility tank? but generally speaking choosing CC is the way to go
I suppose. But with the added condition that the tank also not have an ability that's going to save them, or at least mitigate more damage than the 10% armor debuff.
Or I suppose the instance when the target is already CC'd and has a bunch of team damage incoming.
But then you take into account that the blind/silence talents make Ambush inferior in even that circumstance, and that circumstance isn't often enough to devote talents into an Ambush build.
Honestly there are times it might be worth it, if you're wading into a troupe of melee or if you're good at the timing to take down a squishy in a couple seconds. I just can never rely on my team to get picks, so the pick-taking ult is better.
The level 20 upgrade for Furnace also kinda sucks. I think having him Q every target, a weighty slow or even a DOT would be more fun.
I'm not implying that Furnace is strictly better than Lamb; but it is occasionally a better pickup at 10 (unlike, for example, Tormented Souls, which should genuinely, very sincerely, never be chosen in its current state).
I'm not implying that Furnace is strictly better than Lamb; but it is occasionally a better pickup at 10 (unlike, for example, Tormented Souls, which should genuinely, very sincerely, never be chosen in its current state).
I think most of these times are like when you pick something because it will help immediately, and the hope is that it helps you snowball. I can see Furnace winning a teamfight if you're up 10-9 or something like that and trying to keep the lead.
If the enemy team is melee-heavy, the value of being able to charge in and isolate someone with Lamb is diminished, because they're all just going to collapse on you. In that situation, you might get more value from being able to Furnace Blast multiple heroes reliably.
Lamb might be able to Silence a team like that later on, but you'd have to first make it to 20, and then wait for the God Lamb opportunity, and then also hope that they're not AA-focused because AA melee don't give a shit about Silence.
Also, if the other team can reliably Blind your engage, Furnace is usually better.
Say you're up against a Mei -- Butcher charges in, eats the Snowball Blind the instant he connects and tosses Lamb. He has no follow-up. Then she tosses a Blizzard to force him out of position, so he can't even wait the Blind out; he has to move away from his Lamb target or get Frozen.
And failing that, she could then just boop him away with Ice Skate.
Maybe he gets to 20 and AoE Lamb is a threat; she just plays outside of her team a little and does the exact same thing to shut down his initiation. And there's always an Avalanche or Ice Wall in the back pocket to force a disengage if he catches her without her other cooldowns.
And that's just like, one character Butcher might be up against. There are any number of Heroes that can hard peel him / mitigate when he engages with Lamb.
Sometimes, Furnace is just easier and more reliable.
If the enemy team is melee-heavy, the value of being able to charge in and isolate someone with Lamb is diminished, because they're all just going to collapse on you. In that situation, you might get more value from being able to Furnace Blast multiple heroes reliably.
Lamb might be able to Silence a team like that later on, but you'd have to first make it to 20, and then wait for the God Lamb opportunity, and then also hope that they're not AA-focused because AA melee don't give a shit about Silence.
Also, if the other team can reliably Blind your engage, Furnace is usually better.
Say you're up against a Mei -- Butcher charges in, eats the Snowball Blind the instant he connects and tosses Lamb. He has no follow-up. Then she tosses a Blizzard to force him out of position, so he can't even wait the Blind out; he has to move away from his Lamb target or get Frozen.
And failing that, she could then just boop him away with Ice Skate.
Maybe he gets to 20 and AoE Lamb is a threat; she just plays outside of her team a little and does the exact same thing to shut down his initiation. And there's always an Avalanche or Ice Wall in the back pocket to force a disengage if he catches her without her other cooldowns.
And that's just like, one character Butcher might be up against. There are any number of Heroes that can hard peel him / mitigate when he engages with Lamb.
Sometimes, Furnace is just easier and more reliable.
This is good advice, but it should be noted that it doesn't apply to QM or any rank under Platinum.
I mean, imagine a Mei holding abilities.
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Jo dies if hanzo arrows as soon as her unstoppable ends, think it keeps her out of anduin pull range - instead he holds and arrows the DK??? - NA arrow confirmed
Jo dies if hanzo arrows as soon as her unstoppable ends, think it keeps her out of anduin pull range - instead he holds and arrows the DK??? - NA arrow confirmed
ehhhhh
Like be honest, if you were in a game and you saw a Stitches Gorge someone and then get punted all the way back to your Core, behind a Keep and fully intact Keep Wall, you'd be pretty confident that person is DEAD. Ulting them seems like overkill in the moment. Now obviously in retrospect we can reason away why the ult was the best move (Jo still had unstoppable, Anduin was able to pull, etc). But a lot of people would make that mistake I think.
No I don't think I burn arrow there either, it was the easiest thing to point to of just the team not actually trying to kill her - so the escape isn't that impressive/unexpected. And others pointing out other cc not really being used.
I mean when I see stitches walk up and gorge that Jo - I'm typing gg in chat and yoloing top lane
They won, right? There's no shot that a team with that much beef and the potential for infinite stuns loses. Waveclear isn't even an issue, since it's ARAM.
They won, right? There's no shot that a team with that much beef and the potential for infinite stuns loses. Waveclear isn't even an issue, since it's ARAM.
The true Muradin won.
Thunder burn
Avatar
Stoneform
Healing static (which benefits from both thunder burn and Avatar)
And rewind for even more stupidity
Gotta admit, it was a little warm and uncomfortably moist being surrounded and pounded on by 4 big hairy dudes.
They won, right? There's no shot that a team with that much beef and the potential for infinite stuns loses. Waveclear isn't even an issue, since it's ARAM.
The true Muradin won.
Thunder burn
Avatar
Stoneform
Healing static (which benefits from both thunder burn and Avatar)
And rewind for even more stupidity
Gotta admit, it was a little warm and uncomfortably moist being surrounded and pounded on by 3 big harry dudes.
They won, right? There's no shot that a team with that much beef and the potential for infinite stuns loses. Waveclear isn't even an issue, since it's ARAM.
The true Muradin won.
Thunder burn
Avatar
Stoneform
Healing static (which benefits from both thunder burn and Avatar)
And rewind for even more stupidity
Gotta admit, it was a little warm and uncomfortably moist being surrounded and pounded on by 4 big hairy dudes.
Long ago, the four Muradins lived together in harmony … then everything changed when they ARAM'd. Only the Avatar, master of all builds, could stop them, but when the world needed him most, he hearthed.
They won, right? There's no shot that a team with that much beef and the potential for infinite stuns loses. Waveclear isn't even an issue, since it's ARAM.
The true Muradin won.
Thunder burn
Avatar
Stoneform
Healing static (which benefits from both thunder burn and Avatar)
And rewind for even more stupidity
Gotta admit, it was a little warm and uncomfortably moist being surrounded and pounded on by 4 big hairy dudes.
Long ago, the four Muradins lived together in harmony … then everything changed when they ARAM'd. Only the Avatar, master of all builds, could stop them, but when the world needed him most, he hearthed.
i would like to apologize to anyone who has played late nights around 11cst, im usualy hammared and only play ARAM, needless to say im hammaerd
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
So I dabbled a bit with this game quite a while back, but never really tried to learn anyone besides Raynor and Nazeebo. I'd kind of like to dip back in again, but with some different characters, is there any particular site that serves as a good resource for beginner's guides to characters? Icy Veins was what I remember people using when I played before, are they still recommended?
So I dabbled a bit with this game quite a while back, but never really tried to learn anyone besides Raynor and Nazeebo. I'd kind of like to dip back in again, but with some different characters, is there any particular site that serves as a good resource for beginner's guides to characters? Icy Veins was what I remember people using when I played before, are they still recommended?
Icy Veins has a lot of good content. I'm not sure it's super up-to-date but to be frank it's not like the game has undergone massive changes in the past couple of years, so the bulk of the info is probably still good. Just keep in mind that specific talent/build evaluations may be off. But the overall hero descriptions and strategies are likely unchanged.
My best source of tips and guides, general and hero specific, is here. Not even joking. I don't do YouTube stuff generally and I can't stand twitch, so I've gotten a ton of help reading these threads and occasionally asking for help with certain heroes.
Icy Veins is good for getting ability and talent descriptions, but I wouldn't recommend their talent builds. Either go to a site like HeroesProfile or ask here. As for learning content, I'd recommend starting with NotParadox. Once you feel comfortable on how a hero's abilities and talents work, start watching Fan's YT or streams to see how a high-level player executes strategies with that hero. You'll learn a ton, but he won't always break down what or why he's doing something.
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Welp. Nice knowing ya.
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wra
The very tricky to land damage of Furnace vs the extra damage you (not to mention your team) will be able to apply with an easier to land Lamb?
To say nothing of how infinitely more useful the lvl 20 upgrade to Lamb is.
I can't think when you'd ever want to use Ambush over her stun+blind or silence. The silence ends up doing more total damage by itself and prevents escapes. The stun similarly so. The silence/blind takes them out of the fight better if you can't insta-kill them.
Can't think of an instance where the -10 armor would end up being more damage than all the extra hits the stun or silence would allow you to land. If the rest of your team was about to land a bunch of nukes the exact instant you use Ambush and the extra 10% would make the difference in an instant kill???
if I had to guess the armor shred could be useful if your team is trying to kill a low-mobility tank? but generally speaking choosing CC is the way to go
Goblin not only protec, he also attak
AKA: SURE VARIAN I WILL AA YOU WHY TANK YOU
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wra
Why attack heroes? Attack the core. Killing the core is the only thing that wins games.
I suppose. But with the added condition that the tank also not have an ability that's going to save them, or at least mitigate more damage than the 10% armor debuff.
Or I suppose the instance when the target is already CC'd and has a bunch of team damage incoming.
But then you take into account that the blind/silence talents make Ambush inferior in even that circumstance, and that circumstance isn't often enough to devote talents into an Ambush build.
and at 20, furnace makes it go even faster! You could solo clear a camp in like 1 minute!
Yup... I'm convinced.
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wra
You want butcher in.. say.. 5 out of 100 games, ya? That's being generous, too.
From that, in any butcher game you'll want furnace maybe 1 out of 15 times? Also a little generous imo.
That means you'll want to see furnace in 0.33% of your games? That's all speculation but frankly... sounds about right.
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wra
Because Li Li wouldn't heal him.
(she's been healing a ton)
he then went on a long tirade trying to justify why he's going afk, and to carry him
THIS IS AI
oh my...
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wra
Shockingly enough, he spent the whole game throwing himself into 1vbunches and getting deleted.
Oh well. His day to day life is probably revenge enough for me.
Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
The level 20 upgrade for Furnace also kinda sucks. I think having him Q every target, a weighty slow or even a DOT would be more fun.
Fan B2GM.
Check. Mate.
I think most of these times are like when you pick something because it will help immediately, and the hope is that it helps you snowball. I can see Furnace winning a teamfight if you're up 10-9 or something like that and trying to keep the lead.
Lamb might be able to Silence a team like that later on, but you'd have to first make it to 20, and then wait for the God Lamb opportunity, and then also hope that they're not AA-focused because AA melee don't give a shit about Silence.
Also, if the other team can reliably Blind your engage, Furnace is usually better.
Say you're up against a Mei -- Butcher charges in, eats the Snowball Blind the instant he connects and tosses Lamb. He has no follow-up. Then she tosses a Blizzard to force him out of position, so he can't even wait the Blind out; he has to move away from his Lamb target or get Frozen.
And failing that, she could then just boop him away with Ice Skate.
Maybe he gets to 20 and AoE Lamb is a threat; she just plays outside of her team a little and does the exact same thing to shut down his initiation. And there's always an Avalanche or Ice Wall in the back pocket to force a disengage if he catches her without her other cooldowns.
And that's just like, one character Butcher might be up against. There are any number of Heroes that can hard peel him / mitigate when he engages with Lamb.
Sometimes, Furnace is just easier and more reliable.
This is good advice, but it should be noted that it doesn't apply to QM or any rank under Platinum.
I mean, imagine a Mei holding abilities.
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Can we talk about how Jo survived?
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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https://youtu.be/PJUPV6LxtrM
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
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ehhhhh
Like be honest, if you were in a game and you saw a Stitches Gorge someone and then get punted all the way back to your Core, behind a Keep and fully intact Keep Wall, you'd be pretty confident that person is DEAD. Ulting them seems like overkill in the moment. Now obviously in retrospect we can reason away why the ult was the best move (Jo still had unstoppable, Anduin was able to pull, etc). But a lot of people would make that mistake I think.
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Jo didn't even have an ult to escape. If she did, it would've been even easier.
BW never polied her after her shield ran out. There was literally no CC follow up.
I wouldn't have wasted hanzo arrow. Poly and stitches pointing up would have been enough.
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wra
I mean when I see stitches walk up and gorge that Jo - I'm typing gg in chat and yoloing top lane
If he had been facing up, he could have body blocked her some. Even with unstoppable she can't walk through heroes.
Still no guarantee, though. Jo is a ton of fun BECAUSE she's the unkillable tank.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
The true Muradin won.
Thunder burn
Avatar
Stoneform
Healing static (which benefits from both thunder burn and Avatar)
And rewind for even more stupidity
Gotta admit, it was a little warm and uncomfortably moist being surrounded and pounded on by 4 big hairy dudes.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Long ago, the four Muradins lived together in harmony … then everything changed when they ARAM'd. Only the Avatar, master of all builds, could stop them, but when the world needed him most, he hearthed.
I bet you that Mediv guy did this...
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Icy Veins has a lot of good content. I'm not sure it's super up-to-date but to be frank it's not like the game has undergone massive changes in the past couple of years, so the bulk of the info is probably still good. Just keep in mind that specific talent/build evaluations may be off. But the overall hero descriptions and strategies are likely unchanged.
Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page