DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited April 2022
Watching folks play and give their opinion I'm a bit more interested.
One thing I have noticed is that the reduced CC on DPS and the increased flank routes makes it so combat is less centered around tanks. Meaning they have a bit more freedom.
But it does mean supports are a lot more exposed and can't just hide behind their team anymore. Positioning with them seems even more important.
I view pretty much all that as good moves. Been saying they need to get away from deathball and the unavoidable killbox map design for years. The supports being so vulnerable is hopefully mitigated by letting them be more self-sufficient and capable of defending themselves, but I also suspect that forcing two supports is going to get in the way of that. Still though, most changes seem promising so far.
IMPORTANT: There is a very limited time window coming up on Wednesday to tune in to Twitch to get beta access. It sounds like you must tune in Wednesday morning/afternoon to make the cut.
The Overwatch Team is partnering with Twitch to celebrate the launch of the Overwatch 2 PvP Beta. You can tune in to specific Overwatch 2 streams during a very limited time frame to earn beta access through the Overwatch 2 PvP Beta Twitch Drops campaign.
The limited-time campaign begins April 27th, 2022 @ 10:00AM PT and lasts until 6:00PM PT. Viewers will need to tune in to watch a select group of streamers broadcasting the Overwatch PvP Beta under the Overwatch category. You will be eligible for Twitch drops after watching any participating channel for four hours. Your watch time will accrue no matter what stream you are watching from the list below
I'm in! So far I'm definitely feeling the change of pace that the testers were talking about. The front line is just constantly moving back and forth fluidly the whole game, even on payload/hybrid maps - OW1 in comparison is just about hunkering down behind the front line and exchanging poke. 10% movement speed on DPS is much more noticeable than I expected which lets you be generally more aggressive, combined with much less punish. People have called it deathmatchy but honestly? It's more hectic than deathmatch, and certainly more fun. I won't miss double tank.
Played a few Cassidy rounds, I like his magnetic grenade now that I've played it - it serves a completely different purpose than flashbang, and since the whole flash/fan playstyle has been excised from his kit, his priorities during a match are different. He definitely benefits from the new format. Though fighting a tank is now quite scary, you don't want a 1v1 with them.
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miscellaneousinsanitygrass grows, birds fly, sun shines,and brother, i hurt peopleRegistered Userregular
just learned that the twitch to bnet and the bnet to twitch are separate connections, so if you've gotten the drop on twitch but it's not appearing in your client, go to your account settings in the bnet launcher and make sure you're linked for it to show up
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
So I found out they changed armor to do a flat 30% damage reduction.
While that makes spread weapons better against it I think that's a net buff and probably why some tanks feel a lot harder to kill.
TBH I think most tanks at least decent except Roadhog.
His lack of defense and support kind of leaves him in a weird spot. He's basically a third dps which kind of sucks when you need someone to hold an objective.
I think anti-heal is too hard a shutdown for Roadhog. It's always been that way, but now he makes up the entire tank presence of a team. And one Ana can just turn him off at will, in two ways!
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
Doomfist looks like he doesn't die and needs to lose 50HP. He's not killing people but he's definitely setting them up to be killed by everyone else on the team. From what I've seen it doesn't look like the end-all for supports that was said about the alpha, and not seeing double shields everywhere is nice, didn't even see Ligma in any of the matches I watched scuffing through people yesterday. But the Push game mode needs to speed up, I can see that much right now. It's a beta, I'm waiting to see the final result but my gut feeling/hope is either they're 75% finished on PvE and that's where all the time was spent otherwise this doesn't have any graphical or multiple map enhancements to it to make it take 3 years.
In the meantime plz nerf Roadhog. Brather damage reduction reduced to 30%, remove the ult charge passive, or reduce his hook 5 meters, any of these plz k thx.
BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
edited April 2022
Overwatch 2 sure feels like more Overwatch I guess. The overall virtual non-existence of soft cover vis-a-vis barriers is leading to a lot of DPS picking off support in under a second before anyone else realises so that's been fun*** but overall tanks not seeming like tissue paper amongst other changes is probably better for the health of the game balance I suppose.
Hopefully as time goes on they'll figure out how to give supports new shiny tools to make them actually feel satisfying to play in this new meta too, but my prediction is that everything they do to sand down the rough edges and level the playing field between heroes will shift the identity of all heroes to some kind of flavour of DPS and further away from the distinct role-based spectrum that the first game's design doc had at launch. C'est la vie
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited April 2022
Hmm...I will say while supports getting focused will be more of a think I think some of it is probably people needing to get used to the fact that you probably can't just hang out on the open like you did in OW1.
Cover still exists it just isn't as centric on the mobile platform we know as tanks.
Hmm...I will say while supports getting focused will be more of a think I think some of it is probably people needing to get used to the fact that you probably can't just hang out on the open like you did in OW1.
Cover still exists it just isn't as centric on the mobile platform we know as tanks.
this is definitely partly true, but I also watched plenty of streamers who are support mains and know better than most how to position and play safe, and the experience was still pretty rough and unfun for them. the second tank was a huge part of keeping a team's supports alive, and without that even the good ones are being left out to dry in a lot of cases.
of course as playstyles and strategies develop this will be mitigated, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the experience of playing a support in this environment will get any better. the game runs the risk of supports falling into the trap that tanks have been stuck in for OW1 - it's not that they're powerless or anything, but that it just doesn't feel fun to play.
like, if the dev solution is ultimately just "supports need to learn to hide and find cover better (except for Lucio)" that is not a fun or engaging way to play the game. so hopefully they can figure out some other way to address that.
Tbh my interest in Overwatch 2 is highly dependent on how playable Pharah is in the game, but I don't have high hopes for her given how she was through the original's lifespan nor how the game is shaping up currently.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
I think Pharah is always gonna be Pharah.
I doubt they're ever gonna make her really good just good enough.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited April 2022
As for the support thing we will see. Like I'm not doubting it I'm just also a tank main so when people complain about just being deleted sometimes I'm like "It happens."
But I do think that core OW1 experience is gone. And tbh I remember the first year of OW before role queue so maybe every player playing some form of DPS is what people want.
I doubt they're ever gonna make her really good just good enough.
Thing is, she's very rarely been "just good enough." In OW1 you were playing a 200 HP character whose entire gimmick is she can fly, but in reality it's just exposing herself to damage since no one can shield her while airborne outside of a timely Zarya bubble or Brigette toss. And then she becomes stationary during her ult, making it like her own personal suicide button. As time went on, they added more and more characters that made it harder to even fit her on a team in the most casual of matches. Many new supports struggle to heal a Pharah and many new DPS characters can punish her out in the air without even having to resort to something like a Widow.
I was really curious what kind of changes she'd get in OW2, but so far there's...literally nothing. She just feels forgotten entirely. I never had any hopes she'd be "meta" but it'd be nice if she at least felt playable again.
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H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
edited April 2022
Edit: nevermind, did a little searching and got my answer. Thread reminded me of another forumer I hadn't seen around in a while and I was curious if they're still active. Turns out yes, just not in threads I typically look at.
Tbh my interest in Overwatch 2 is highly dependent on how playable Pharah is in the game, but I don't have high hopes for her given how she was through the original's lifespan nor how the game is shaping up currently.
For what its worth, with Sojourn now being a part of the game and a bevvy of reworks to existing characters like Sombra and Bastion, the roster is pretty lousy with extremely capable hitscans with long range and fast killing power so I honestly don't know how fliers are going to cope in this new landscape lmaoooooo
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
I doubt they're ever gonna make her really good just good enough.
Thing is, she's very rarely been "just good enough." In OW1 you were playing a 200 HP character whose entire gimmick is she can fly, but in reality it's just exposing herself to damage since no one can shield her while airborne outside of a timely Zarya bubble or Brigette toss. And then she becomes stationary during her ult, making it like her own personal suicide button. As time went on, they added more and more characters that made it harder to even fit her on a team in the most casual of matches. Many new supports struggle to heal a Pharah and many new DPS characters can punish her out in the air without even having to resort to something like a Widow.
I was really curious what kind of changes she'd get in OW2, but so far there's...literally nothing. She just feels forgotten entirely. I never had any hopes she'd be "meta" but it'd be nice if she at least felt playable again.
When I say "good enough" I'm saying bad without a Mercy pocket which then makes her playable.
What I'm saying is Pharah is probably annoying to balance because of how she interacts with the game but she also does a very specific thing.
So I feel like they will leave her like that and probably just add more manageable fliers like they did with Echo(who was top tier of course but less or zipping around and more cause she had a crazy ult and ton of burst) or maybe more supports who can actually heal her without too much trouble.
Like buffing Pharah isn't hard they just need to give her the ability to quickly "dash" in a direction without it being tied to concussion. But because she has an option where she doesn't have to interact with a good portion of the cast she is probably stuck where she is.
Lucio seems like the best support right now. Echoing the -1 tank opinions, he's independent enough to not be bothered by a lack of peel and likewise has more freedom to bully enemies who have less peel.
the faster the pace the bigger the support problems are being able to heal while being mobile (ana). lucio, mercy, and moira have better mobility but even mercy is like...i hope i don't get picked while healing up this target.
brig is such an odd one because healing from doing damage is what i'd want more of but her damage all being close range just makes her kind of terrible against a bevy of long range dps.
miscellaneousinsanitygrass grows, birds fly, sun shines,and brother, i hurt peopleRegistered Userregular
so far i've been playing a lot of lucio (par for the course) and moira (more moira than i've played in what, months? years?) and zen (also not a surprise but on live there's a good chance i'll play bap in his place, oh also god damn did they make his right click satisfying in the beta)
gonna miss feeling useful on brig but i just want blizz to add some new healers that are both fun to play and not unfun to play against
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
I am very interested in seeing how the new heroes shift the meta.
I feel DPS is kind of whatever cause they all mostly do the same thing. Support and Tank is where the magic happens.
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BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
edited April 2022
Also, DPS feel stronger and kills seem to happen much faster in general, so sometimes in a brawl healing just feels entirely pointless. There's so many different things that have been tuned that on the whole make the directly-adjusted characters feel more satisfying, but almost all of it comes entirely at the expense of making the game feel less satisfying for Supports.
Now that I've had a hand at the tanks and DPS like Rein and Sojourn, I'm definitely of the mind that overall the changes they've made have been pretty fun - tanks feel tanky, and I'm not immediately falling over like tissue paper when an enemy team looks at me funny even though I still get punished easily for bad plays. If a 5v5 format is what it took for them to make tanks fun again, a more limited place to play with friends is a trade-off I'm happy to make. It's the changes they haven't made that have really kinda hurt my enjoyment of the new scene.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
I doubt they're ever gonna make her really good just good enough.
Thing is, she's very rarely been "just good enough." In OW1 you were playing a 200 HP character whose entire gimmick is she can fly, but in reality it's just exposing herself to damage since no one can shield her while airborne outside of a timely Zarya bubble or Brigette toss. And then she becomes stationary during her ult, making it like her own personal suicide button. As time went on, they added more and more characters that made it harder to even fit her on a team in the most casual of matches. Many new supports struggle to heal a Pharah and many new DPS characters can punish her out in the air without even having to resort to something like a Widow.
I was really curious what kind of changes she'd get in OW2, but so far there's...literally nothing. She just feels forgotten entirely. I never had any hopes she'd be "meta" but it'd be nice if she at least felt playable again.
pharah has not really been weak for a while
for several seasons almost half the top 10 eu dps accounts were a pharah one trick and she was so oppressive in soloq that account boosters on eu used to speedrun gm abusing pharmercy
the problem is that she cannot be balanced so long as mercy exists, so shes a terrible experience for everybody. if u pick her without ur team being on the same page its going to be weird and frustrating, but if shes on the other team with an ana and mercy on the same page if ur in soloq ur team will lose. hitscans have not hard countered a well-played pharah for a while (and in fact never really did), it was just that non-hitscan characters literally couldnt hit her because she was out of their range. the 10% move speed dps boost is also a nice indirect buff to pharah because it gives her better movement which is her primary defense
fundamentally u cant have an infinitely flying hero with infinite healing and no falloff with the map design and hero design they have and have it be a good experience. i do hope they do something about her because shes conceptually cool but shes one of the worst average experience heroes in the whole game to both play and deal with
worth noting that with 1 fewer tank to heal and supports having self-heal from passive the cost of running a pocket is much lower - mercy has to heal her other support less and the team needs less healing overall - so in principle its less of a cost for ur team to run it
I always have good success with Pharah unless I'm being countered by a good hitscan player. Generally I pick her because there isn't such a person on the other team.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
when pharah boops tracer she says "mind the gap"
brexit tube memes
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KasynI'm not saying I don't like our chances.She called me the master.Registered Userregular
edited April 2022
Initial impressions of the state of the roles in OW2:
Individual tanks definitely feel very tanky, and the anxiety I had about removing a tank spot AND tamping down barriers is mostly never realized here. They all feel individually stronger than their OW1 versions and that's definitely cool, not to mention the new toys many of them received.
This is clearly a game being oriented around DPS players now. I think due to numerous changes they're mostly achieving what they set out to do, which was allow for greater individual impact potential, but OW2 right now is just such an enormous windfall for DPS it's gratuitous. Not only did many of them get buffs and favorable mini-reworks, but much of their counterplay was removed.
A lot of the increased power, impact, and enjoyability of DPS feels like it came at the direct expense of the support role. I don't think I've ever seen supports feel quite so bad to play. You're just completely at the mercy of flanking DPS right now, which was already very true and now significantly moreso. Gameplay-wise, I think only maybe three supports fit the faster tempo of the game: Moira, Brig, and Lucio. Not that the rest are bad - Ana can almost never be a bad hero, Zen's discord is enormously valuable right now, Mercy's fine and Bap's lamp and damage still exist. But it very much feels like you're playing an older version of the game while everyone else is in the flashy sequel. I think most of the supports just flat out need a mini-rework pass to add utility and dynamism to their kits. Also, they need to add a couple more supports to the game - the hero variety for a role that runs two to a team for supports is just egregious compared to what it is for DPS.
Overall I think the switch to 5v5 is a success, the reworks and hero changes are all quite good, Push isn't mindblowing but definitely better than 2CP, and it's more of what is a really good base game. I'm optimistic, aside from support being as neglected as they are at the moment. (Which is not something I expect to be the case come live, at least not to the current degree.)
Most DPSes are fundamentally made stronger by the change in format, with one fewer tank to peel, less CC and weaker shields. In terms of actual DPS balance changes though they mostly got nerfs and neutral reworks. Supports on the other hand are relatively weaker because all the things that got removed are exactly what was protecting them. I think Blizzard is going to have to do something about that because the current queues are untenable.
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KasynI'm not saying I don't like our chances.She called me the master.Registered Userregular
Most DPSes are fundamentally made stronger by the change in format, with one fewer tank to peel, less CC and weaker shields. In terms of actual DPS balance changes though they mostly got nerfs and neutral reworks. Supports on the other hand are relatively weaker because all the things that got removed are exactly what was protecting them. I think Blizzard is going to have to do something about that because the current queues are untenable.
The balance changes to DPS don't really come close to compensating for all the systemic changes that benefit them so much, not to mention 10% movespeed across the board. Also: Sombra rework is nasty. She's totally busted right now.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited April 2022
I do agree with the assessment that some characters still feel like they're playing OW1.
I'm sure they'll get around to working on them though. But yeah I think we just need more tanks and supports.
Especially more high mobility supports. The stationary style of support fit OW1 more but I think any new supports need to trend closer to Lucio.
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BRIAN BLESSEDMaybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHHRegistered Userregular
I'm actually really positive about the changes because most of the heroes that got extensive rework needed them and feel much fairer as a result - Sombra feels like a more consistent threat than a hero that just ping-pongs between indispensible and entirely absent - but it feels like there's just an entire half of Overwatch's identity that got left behind at the moment.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited April 2022
I do have to think Sym will get her (4th?) Rework.
Her kit really does not make sense in the new format.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited April 2022
ive had zero problem with support because i always hard flanked and inted on zen and its actually easier to do that now because u have the support passive and more squishy targets to bully
lucio is absurd because support passive + his kit means if u dont instantly kill him hes back in 4 seconds flat with full hp and voice lines
mercy is actually suffering from a bug where her ult doesnt chain the aoe heal so shes weaker than she should be at clutch healing, so once that is fixed she should feel a lot better
bap is bap, i suspect he might feel a lil off because his numbers are all based on bap getting nerfed because of aoe sustain and broken lamp + old 6v6 team comps so i can imagine he might get tweaked, but i dont play him so
ana benefits a lot from support passive because it lets her save nade more but as ever u need ur team to have a brain and pay attention to where u are / when ur getting dived and aint nobody talking in ow2 beta normals
moira is extremely good because, well, moira is good into getting dived, less healing required means more damage orbs, self-peel is super strong, support passive stacks with her succ heal if ur undamaged for a second, etc (plus her orbs are bugged and bounce infinitely if u hit them off the ceiling and will heal her forever idk if this is fixed yet). difficulty with moira is needing to be close to tanks given how tanks cant sit back any more but fundamentally shes not weak
brig is cursed and i dont care if shes weak
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KasynI'm not saying I don't like our chances.She called me the master.Registered Userregular
"I'm unaffected because I'm busy inting usually" is not a compelling defense of the situation lol
Support passive doesn't do shit when you're in an actual fight, it may as well not even exist when a flanker who is worth anything is on you. As Ana you're still making the same decisions on using your sleep or nade defensively with the passive or no, you're just dealing with extremely long cooldowns. Where the passive is good is for resets in between skirmishes, but it still feels like a worse situation than live with respect to answering a flanker in your backline.
I agree on Lucio Bap, Mercy and Moira. Moira's quite strong in this because she's among the best at dealing with the new landscape, I've been doing quite well on her in the beta - but it doesn't mean that things for the role aren't in a rough spot.
Brig actually feels pretty good, though I would be just fine to see her stun added back in. Or make it so it doesn't stun tanks. It was nice to have her as an option in response to a flanker going nuts in your backline, but her threat is greatly reduced. (Not that she isn't still decent at it, but I still think having a support option to check that effectively is important.)
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited April 2022
support passive is active in fights all the time
its literally 1 second of not taking damage and even better it refills ur hp which as zen means even if u drop to like 10hp u get to go back to 200 and repeek aggressively eg
because of how zen works especially vs ranged dps the support passive hugely speeds up ur peek repeek time, meaning u can take much more advantage of the discord wallhack when repeeking hitscans/snipers because u regen faster
plus the sound changes make the balls so FWIPPY
the BALL's man the BALL'S
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited April 2022
TBF they did do another developer thing and the basic take was while they mostly like where the game is heading they do realize supports are on the weaker side so they'll be working on that.
They also said they think the tanks are mostly strong but the gaps between them are a bit to wide(*cough*roadhogwinston*cough*)
So it seems like those will be the main things targeted for the next big update.
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miscellaneousinsanitygrass grows, birds fly, sun shines,and brother, i hurt peopleRegistered Userregular
not a big fan of the new bodyshot impact sounds for zen, the dull thud feels at odds with the high pitched launching noises
more motivation to hit those dinks i guess
the new charged shot is great tho
also i've noticed in addition to killfeed color wonkiness, zens UI is buggy too, half the time i put discord on someone the icon above their head is blue
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I like what I'm seeing.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
One thing I have noticed is that the reduced CC on DPS and the increased flank routes makes it so combat is less centered around tanks. Meaning they have a bit more freedom.
But it does mean supports are a lot more exposed and can't just hide behind their team anymore. Positioning with them seems even more important.
Played a few Cassidy rounds, I like his magnetic grenade now that I've played it - it serves a completely different purpose than flashbang, and since the whole flash/fan playstyle has been excised from his kit, his priorities during a match are different. He definitely benefits from the new format. Though fighting a tank is now quite scary, you don't want a 1v1 with them.
While that makes spread weapons better against it I think that's a net buff and probably why some tanks feel a lot harder to kill.
TBH I think most tanks at least decent except Roadhog.
His lack of defense and support kind of leaves him in a weird spot. He's basically a third dps which kind of sucks when you need someone to hold an objective.
In the meantime plz nerf Roadhog. Brather damage reduction reduced to 30%, remove the ult charge passive, or reduce his hook 5 meters, any of these plz k thx.
also Widow is great
Hopefully as time goes on they'll figure out how to give supports new shiny tools to make them actually feel satisfying to play in this new meta too, but my prediction is that everything they do to sand down the rough edges and level the playing field between heroes will shift the identity of all heroes to some kind of flavour of DPS and further away from the distinct role-based spectrum that the first game's design doc had at launch. C'est la vie
Cover still exists it just isn't as centric on the mobile platform we know as tanks.
this is definitely partly true, but I also watched plenty of streamers who are support mains and know better than most how to position and play safe, and the experience was still pretty rough and unfun for them. the second tank was a huge part of keeping a team's supports alive, and without that even the good ones are being left out to dry in a lot of cases.
of course as playstyles and strategies develop this will be mitigated, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the experience of playing a support in this environment will get any better. the game runs the risk of supports falling into the trap that tanks have been stuck in for OW1 - it's not that they're powerless or anything, but that it just doesn't feel fun to play.
like, if the dev solution is ultimately just "supports need to learn to hide and find cover better (except for Lucio)" that is not a fun or engaging way to play the game. so hopefully they can figure out some other way to address that.
I doubt they're ever gonna make her really good just good enough.
But I do think that core OW1 experience is gone. And tbh I remember the first year of OW before role queue so maybe every player playing some form of DPS is what people want.
Thing is, she's very rarely been "just good enough." In OW1 you were playing a 200 HP character whose entire gimmick is she can fly, but in reality it's just exposing herself to damage since no one can shield her while airborne outside of a timely Zarya bubble or Brigette toss. And then she becomes stationary during her ult, making it like her own personal suicide button. As time went on, they added more and more characters that made it harder to even fit her on a team in the most casual of matches. Many new supports struggle to heal a Pharah and many new DPS characters can punish her out in the air without even having to resort to something like a Widow.
I was really curious what kind of changes she'd get in OW2, but so far there's...literally nothing. She just feels forgotten entirely. I never had any hopes she'd be "meta" but it'd be nice if she at least felt playable again.
For what its worth, with Sojourn now being a part of the game and a bevvy of reworks to existing characters like Sombra and Bastion, the roster is pretty lousy with extremely capable hitscans with long range and fast killing power so I honestly don't know how fliers are going to cope in this new landscape lmaoooooo
When I say "good enough" I'm saying bad without a Mercy pocket which then makes her playable.
What I'm saying is Pharah is probably annoying to balance because of how she interacts with the game but she also does a very specific thing.
So I feel like they will leave her like that and probably just add more manageable fliers like they did with Echo(who was top tier of course but less or zipping around and more cause she had a crazy ult and ton of burst) or maybe more supports who can actually heal her without too much trouble.
Like buffing Pharah isn't hard they just need to give her the ability to quickly "dash" in a direction without it being tied to concussion. But because she has an option where she doesn't have to interact with a good portion of the cast she is probably stuck where she is.
brig is such an odd one because healing from doing damage is what i'd want more of but her damage all being close range just makes her kind of terrible against a bevy of long range dps.
zen is zen
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder
gonna miss feeling useful on brig but i just want blizz to add some new healers that are both fun to play and not unfun to play against
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
I feel DPS is kind of whatever cause they all mostly do the same thing. Support and Tank is where the magic happens.
Now that I've had a hand at the tanks and DPS like Rein and Sojourn, I'm definitely of the mind that overall the changes they've made have been pretty fun - tanks feel tanky, and I'm not immediately falling over like tissue paper when an enemy team looks at me funny even though I still get punished easily for bad plays. If a 5v5 format is what it took for them to make tanks fun again, a more limited place to play with friends is a trade-off I'm happy to make. It's the changes they haven't made that have really kinda hurt my enjoyment of the new scene.
pharah has not really been weak for a while
for several seasons almost half the top 10 eu dps accounts were a pharah one trick and she was so oppressive in soloq that account boosters on eu used to speedrun gm abusing pharmercy
the problem is that she cannot be balanced so long as mercy exists, so shes a terrible experience for everybody. if u pick her without ur team being on the same page its going to be weird and frustrating, but if shes on the other team with an ana and mercy on the same page if ur in soloq ur team will lose. hitscans have not hard countered a well-played pharah for a while (and in fact never really did), it was just that non-hitscan characters literally couldnt hit her because she was out of their range. the 10% move speed dps boost is also a nice indirect buff to pharah because it gives her better movement which is her primary defense
fundamentally u cant have an infinitely flying hero with infinite healing and no falloff with the map design and hero design they have and have it be a good experience. i do hope they do something about her because shes conceptually cool but shes one of the worst average experience heroes in the whole game to both play and deal with
worth noting that with 1 fewer tank to heal and supports having self-heal from passive the cost of running a pocket is much lower - mercy has to heal her other support less and the team needs less healing overall - so in principle its less of a cost for ur team to run it
brexit tube memes
- Individual tanks definitely feel very tanky, and the anxiety I had about removing a tank spot AND tamping down barriers is mostly never realized here. They all feel individually stronger than their OW1 versions and that's definitely cool, not to mention the new toys many of them received.
- This is clearly a game being oriented around DPS players now. I think due to numerous changes they're mostly achieving what they set out to do, which was allow for greater individual impact potential, but OW2 right now is just such an enormous windfall for DPS it's gratuitous. Not only did many of them get buffs and favorable mini-reworks, but much of their counterplay was removed.
- A lot of the increased power, impact, and enjoyability of DPS feels like it came at the direct expense of the support role. I don't think I've ever seen supports feel quite so bad to play. You're just completely at the mercy of flanking DPS right now, which was already very true and now significantly moreso. Gameplay-wise, I think only maybe three supports fit the faster tempo of the game: Moira, Brig, and Lucio. Not that the rest are bad - Ana can almost never be a bad hero, Zen's discord is enormously valuable right now, Mercy's fine and Bap's lamp and damage still exist. But it very much feels like you're playing an older version of the game while everyone else is in the flashy sequel. I think most of the supports just flat out need a mini-rework pass to add utility and dynamism to their kits. Also, they need to add a couple more supports to the game - the hero variety for a role that runs two to a team for supports is just egregious compared to what it is for DPS.
Overall I think the switch to 5v5 is a success, the reworks and hero changes are all quite good, Push isn't mindblowing but definitely better than 2CP, and it's more of what is a really good base game. I'm optimistic, aside from support being as neglected as they are at the moment. (Which is not something I expect to be the case come live, at least not to the current degree.)The balance changes to DPS don't really come close to compensating for all the systemic changes that benefit them so much, not to mention 10% movespeed across the board. Also: Sombra rework is nasty. She's totally busted right now.
I'm sure they'll get around to working on them though. But yeah I think we just need more tanks and supports.
Especially more high mobility supports. The stationary style of support fit OW1 more but I think any new supports need to trend closer to Lucio.
Her kit really does not make sense in the new format.
lucio is absurd because support passive + his kit means if u dont instantly kill him hes back in 4 seconds flat with full hp and voice lines
mercy is actually suffering from a bug where her ult doesnt chain the aoe heal so shes weaker than she should be at clutch healing, so once that is fixed she should feel a lot better
bap is bap, i suspect he might feel a lil off because his numbers are all based on bap getting nerfed because of aoe sustain and broken lamp + old 6v6 team comps so i can imagine he might get tweaked, but i dont play him so
ana benefits a lot from support passive because it lets her save nade more but as ever u need ur team to have a brain and pay attention to where u are / when ur getting dived and aint nobody talking in ow2 beta normals
moira is extremely good because, well, moira is good into getting dived, less healing required means more damage orbs, self-peel is super strong, support passive stacks with her succ heal if ur undamaged for a second, etc (plus her orbs are bugged and bounce infinitely if u hit them off the ceiling and will heal her forever idk if this is fixed yet). difficulty with moira is needing to be close to tanks given how tanks cant sit back any more but fundamentally shes not weak
brig is cursed and i dont care if shes weak
Support passive doesn't do shit when you're in an actual fight, it may as well not even exist when a flanker who is worth anything is on you. As Ana you're still making the same decisions on using your sleep or nade defensively with the passive or no, you're just dealing with extremely long cooldowns. Where the passive is good is for resets in between skirmishes, but it still feels like a worse situation than live with respect to answering a flanker in your backline.
I agree on Lucio Bap, Mercy and Moira. Moira's quite strong in this because she's among the best at dealing with the new landscape, I've been doing quite well on her in the beta - but it doesn't mean that things for the role aren't in a rough spot.
Brig actually feels pretty good, though I would be just fine to see her stun added back in. Or make it so it doesn't stun tanks. It was nice to have her as an option in response to a flanker going nuts in your backline, but her threat is greatly reduced. (Not that she isn't still decent at it, but I still think having a support option to check that effectively is important.)
its literally 1 second of not taking damage and even better it refills ur hp which as zen means even if u drop to like 10hp u get to go back to 200 and repeek aggressively eg
because of how zen works especially vs ranged dps the support passive hugely speeds up ur peek repeek time, meaning u can take much more advantage of the discord wallhack when repeeking hitscans/snipers because u regen faster
plus the sound changes make the balls so FWIPPY
the BALL's man the BALL'S
They also said they think the tanks are mostly strong but the gaps between them are a bit to wide(*cough*roadhogwinston*cough*)
So it seems like those will be the main things targeted for the next big update.
more motivation to hit those dinks i guess
the new charged shot is great tho
also i've noticed in addition to killfeed color wonkiness, zens UI is buggy too, half the time i put discord on someone the icon above their head is blue