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The Supreme Court Has Overturned Roe v Wade
DJ Eebs
Moderator, Administrator admin
Moderator, Administrator admin
This thread is for discussion of the leaked decision from the Supreme Court that would overturn Roe v Wade. Discussion for and around that topic are to be kept confined to this thread in D&D.
Here's a brief overview of what's happening:
Politico is a site that covers US Politics:
Abby D Phillip is a political correspondent at CNN:
Here are some ground rules for the thread. Please read these, as we will be enforcing them:
If you'll allow me to get on a soapbox, here's one thing I'd like to ask of everyone. I don't want anyone here sitting smugly thinking that "they finally told off that other person!" I'm talking about you, as well. This is a pretty momentous decision, and a lot of us are very angry about it, and it's very easy to slide into hopelessness. Nothing I can say here is going to assuage any of that. All I can ask is that you do your best to not take it out on each other. I feel pretty confident that this forum is mostly on the same side on this issue, and I'd like everyone to remember that going forward. Here's one thing that I think is very worth noting: nobody here is responsible for this. I don't care who they voted for, I don't care when they voted for them, I don't care who they campaigned for. The people on this forum are not meant to be stand-ins for the people who make these decisions, and they're not to be your outlet for that anger. When I say take that anger and point it elsewhere, I mean it, even if "elsewhere," means you go on Twitter, or into my DMs and call me an asshole. I mean, please don't DM me to call me an asshole, that's rude, but whatever.
Anyways: I know I'm shouting into the void here, but please, please try and give each other some benefit of the doubt.
Here's a brief overview of what's happening:
Politico is a site that covers US Politics:
Politico wrote:The Supreme Court has voted to strike down Roe v. Wade, according to an initial draft majority opinion written by Justice Samuel Alito and obtained by POLITICO.
“We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled,” Alito writes.
Abby D Phillip is a political correspondent at CNN:
Abby D Phillip wrote:BREAKING: Chief Justice Roberts confirms the authenticity of the ruling obtained by POLITICO: "This was a singular and egregious breach of that trust that is an affront to the Court and the community of public servants who work here." He is asking for an investigation.
Here are some ground rules for the thread. Please read these, as we will be enforcing them:
- The 2016 election is off-topic. Nobody has anything new to say, nobody is going to convince anyone else to change their mind, and we don't need it used as a cudgel to yell at each other over.
- These forums are publicly indexed, meaning that search engines will return results from the forums. Don't openly say how you're going to or want to do illegal shit in posts on this forum. It'll get us in trouble, and it'll get you in trouble.
- Keep discussion in this thread to actions that are directly related to this upcoming decision. That can be a broader topic than it seems, and it's a bit of a moving target, so bear with us as we all narrow it down. Please work with us on this.
- These forums are not a place for you to yell at each other. I understand tensions are very high right now, but this cannot be a place for you to vent that anger, no matter how righteous it is. Channel that energy somewhere else, please.
- This is still D&D, which is an on-topic forum. I understand the need to shitpost, but this isn't the place for it.
If you'll allow me to get on a soapbox, here's one thing I'd like to ask of everyone. I don't want anyone here sitting smugly thinking that "they finally told off that other person!" I'm talking about you, as well. This is a pretty momentous decision, and a lot of us are very angry about it, and it's very easy to slide into hopelessness. Nothing I can say here is going to assuage any of that. All I can ask is that you do your best to not take it out on each other. I feel pretty confident that this forum is mostly on the same side on this issue, and I'd like everyone to remember that going forward. Here's one thing that I think is very worth noting: nobody here is responsible for this. I don't care who they voted for, I don't care when they voted for them, I don't care who they campaigned for. The people on this forum are not meant to be stand-ins for the people who make these decisions, and they're not to be your outlet for that anger. When I say take that anger and point it elsewhere, I mean it, even if "elsewhere," means you go on Twitter, or into my DMs and call me an asshole. I mean, please don't DM me to call me an asshole, that's rude, but whatever.
Anyways: I know I'm shouting into the void here, but please, please try and give each other some benefit of the doubt.
ElJeffe on
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This discussion has been closed.
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For a while it has felt inevitable they were going to do it but also such an impossible atrocity that it felt like it had to be a bluff and nobody would actually do this. I wish that it had just been a bluff or something the right wingers use to work their constituents into a froth.
I've known quite a few right to lifers and they are probably celebrating today about this. It sickens me that these are people who claim to be compassionate for others.
Just fuck this bullshit. I hate this and this powerlessness.
I've been looking for a response from Liz Bruenig about this. She's pro-life but has always been adamant about the need for a complete overhaul of how the state handles social welfare funding (and the rest of her CV is basically a what's-what of progressive causes, re: abolition of the death penalty, etc.) , so I'm not actually sure she's supportive of a Roe repeal without that, because yeah, the cupboard is already bare. Horrible.
Well, they are explicitly going after LGBT right to exist next
Man of all people I want to hear from Bruenig would be last on my list. She's a pick me editorialist. She'll support this because you shouldn't have sex if you don't want babies.
pleasepaypreacher.net
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Basically any civil rights case of the last 50+ years you can think of and a few more you can't are in their crosshairs.
I wish it was only 50, cause that + is doing some heavy lifting.
There is shit from the 19th century in their crosshairs. Thomas has said as much in the past.
That's always been the true beauty of "pro-life" as a political philosophy; you don't actually have to do anything. It's literally as easy as a smug look, a statement in affirmation of pro life, and if you're really ambitious, a self righteous sign at the edge of your property to annoy local drivers. Unborn children are the perfect vehicle; they have no skin color, class, religion. You don't have to feed or educate them, give them a place to live, or something to do with their lives. Instead you just pat yourself on the shoulder and vote republican, it's the easiest shit in the world.
The long term effects will strain and break systems across the states. And we'll probably end up back at horrid dumping grounds for children run by equally horrid churches. And not a single pro life person will care. If any of them did, blood red states like Alabama wouldn't have the worst fucking infant mortality rate in the union.
A lot of easily preventable deaths.
The stuff about criminalizing leaving the state for an abortion gives me the most chilling dystopian future sight. Will you have to report your pregnancy to the government? Will mandatory reporters have to if you let slip in front of them? This is full on big brother nightmare.
And of course prosecutorial discretion will hammer some people on this harder than others.
I couldn't stand to read it in detail today, but the majority of the ink I saw in the draft was just dedicated to Roe and Casey. Griswold might be in there somewhere but I think there's going to need to be some more iteration / more cases in-between to get there, which buys some time.
Yeah thats totally the thing people are missing as well. Alito called out obergefel and lawrence as things they are totally willing to wipe out. That isn’t some theoretical musing, those cases will be overturned as soon as someone can find a test case.
That will be harder for them. Gorsuch for all his long long list of faults made the Bostok decision 6-3, which means it would be 5-4 now. He's still Gorsuch so someone will probably find a fig leaf he finds acceptable eventually.
This is why the religious right chose anti-choice (I refuse to use the "pro-life" epithet whatsoever, as it's proscriptionist gooseshit designed to make them appear to be on the "right" side) ideology after racism under color of religion was failing as an animating force for the movement - it was something where they could always cast themselves as being the "right" side of the argument.
You think this SCOTUS cares about ramifications? They have not yet.
I mean shit Clarence would sign on to annul his own interacial marriage.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Oh, 'fortunately' we already know the outcome of this.
1) The overall number of abortions will increase, as abortion clinics are often many womens only local and free access to family planning and contraceptive services, and women who want abortions will (as they always have) attempt to obtain them
2) Abortions will be performed in illegal backrooms, at best by a concerned 'aunt', probably by local criminal agencies. Many MANY women will die (10s of thousands) and many more will be made sterile or horribly injured. Poisoning cases will rise immensely, as women turn to 'online remedies', drink or inject poisons, or make dubious teas from herbs and plants they have no idea how to identify.
3) Women in abusive relationships will be the ones most affected in terms of actually 'delivering unwanted children'
4) Overstrained US pregnancy services will suffer further as women in forced pregnancy reach delivery and have not been seeking proper care throughout (perhaps one of the reasons they wanted an abortion was that they live 200 miles from a doctor and are high risk), this will place more burden on these services, and more women (even those who desperately want a child) will die or see their children die
So, more pregnanices, but also more abortions, more deaths, more poisonings, more violence against women, more rapes (as women become less willing to have risk casual sex) and so on.
So, bad for pregnant women, bad for fetuses (which is irrelevant), bad for parents, bad for doctors etc
When they're above the law and rich enough to effectively be "above" the economy, will it matter to them?
Edit: "them" being the assholes pulling us into hell, I mean.
Yeah horror stories of ER departments that basically have a failed abortion wing will become the norm. Those of us young enough to not know the horror of a USA pre Roe are about to get a speed run of it.
pleasepaypreacher.net
What a fucking horror show.
Yeah, given the content, that was pretty enraging.
Document: "abortion and gay rights are just made up, and made up too recently, we're getting rid of one now and the other we'll see about"
Roberts: what an affront, that someone would do something so awful as to leak legal documents. Truly a dark day.
Well, I imagine being America those failed abortion wings will actually be attached to prisons.
If they can't succeed in a stay on this in any way and then lose the midterms this year, I genuinely do not believe the party survives this. They've been relying on Wade for 50 years to hold back a flood and the dam is breaking.
And red states will probably require the patient, not the insurance company, be billed for any costs.
Because if there's one thing you can trust is they will find a way to make a horrible situation even more horrific.
You can also just say no new ones. I mean, people want to do the annulling, but "ok fine there are ten thousand gay marriages in this state, and there will be no more" is one way to do it without allowing as many people as strong a standing.
I am loath to.lump in the entire Republican voting bloc in with the ardent pro-lifers. Most of the small government libertarians Ive met tell themselves sweet nothings about the likelihood of rights being rolled back, our government would never risk the outcry, abortion and LGBT issues are just evergreen signposts that the right would never give up complaining about to take REAL action on.
Maybe hoping for a cold water shock to realign people's votes is naive. I can only name one person out of a dozen who I know 100% will vote Democrat for life as a result of this who had some absurd "parties balance each other" ideas when we first talked years ago.
Isnt much of a comfort given that his voting logic is the sort of behavior that caused this.
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Nonsense, you expect that the illegal abortion states will allow cross state trafficking of those drugs to stand? The only source of the drugs in illegal abortion states will be drug dealers, who can't source the drugs legally (not enough demand to produce so much that it can be easily 'lost' like painkillers can). Those drug dealers have zero incentive to produce clean high quality product, and will instead deal out half doses, probably laced with cocaine and other addictive stuff so as to get more customers.
MAYBE semi-official legions of women in legal states will order extra doses of the medication and then resell at cost (or gift) to people in illegal states?
Of course, there's already plenty of precedent that if you injure yourself in the process of committing a crime then you are on your own billing wise.
Yeah. There are actually some pretty fucking incredible wonder drugs out there at the moment that are incredibly safe. Mifepristone, for example.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mifepristone
I have no idea if it's possible or feasible, but the FDA has definitely taken an overly cautious approach to its distribution and availability due to political reasons, and that feels like something that could be changed with pressure.
Theorizing that drug dealers will try to get women addicted to cocaine via abortion drugs seems pretty wild.
Got a cite to such a thing ever happening?
Bostok was a black letter law issue though. I can see that being the fig leaf here.
“There’s a law stating you can’t discriminate in the workplace against gays but ain’t no rule saying you can’t make sodomy illegal.”
https://archives.drugabuse.gov/emerging-trends/fake-prescription-drugs-laced-fentanyl
Fentanyl and other illegal drugs = Cheap and profitable
Prescription drugs = Expensive
"The fake pills are much cheaper than the real versions. The public should be aware that drugs obtained on the street, even though they look like a real prescription pharmaceutical, may be deadly."
"These pills, which look like legitimate prescription pain relievers or sedatives, "
So, again, abortion drugs specifically, evidence?
who knows what happens when half the country bans abortions and birth control.
Alito literally says they don't care about what happens after their decisions.
“We do not pretend to know how our political system or society will respond to today’s decision overruling Roe and Casey. And even if we could foresee what will happen, we would have no authority to let that knowledge influence our decision. We can only do our job, which is to interpret the law, apply longstanding principles of stare decisis, and decide this case accordingly." (p.65)
Well, they do it for every other prescription drug which is hard to obtain or locally illegal? Its hard to know exactly what they will do with this particular soon to be illegal prescription drug since almost no other wealthy country in the world has been stupid enough to make abortion illegal. However, my opinion is that if you are a drug dealer given the choice between making $990 selling a woman a real course of illegal abortion drugs and $999 selling her fentanyl and saying it is anti-abortion medication then I know what they have chosen for every other drug.
while unverified, LOLGOP Is a popular political commentator among the progressive punditry and journos; he’s written in USA Today but I can never remember his non-pseudonym