Is it possible to change the rules to change the culture of child abuse around women's gymnastics and figure skating or do we like...eliminated those sports entirely? I feel like the incentives around a sport where it is advantageous to be tiny teenage girl are always going to lead to tragedy.
How is being a tiny teenage girl advantageous in either sport? There are coaches that have built systems around it, but it's turning out that it's not the be all end all (case in point - Oksana Chusovitina, who was an elite gymnast from Barcelona (1992) to Tokyo (2021).) Which gets back to the bigger point - yes, these sports can be saved, but the first step is giving the competitors a role in running them.
Is it possible to change the rules to change the culture of child abuse around women's gymnastics and figure skating or do we like...eliminated those sports entirely? I feel like the incentives around a sport where it is advantageous to be tiny teenage girl are always going to lead to tragedy.
How is being a tiny teenage girl advantageous in either sport? There are coaches that have built systems around it, but it's turning out that it's not the be all end all (case in point - Oksana Chusovitina, who was an elite gymnast from Barcelona (1992) to Tokyo (2021).) Which gets back to the bigger point - yes, these sports can be saved, but the first step is giving the competitors a role in running them.
The tiny part makes sense as being advantageous because the power generation in limb muscles scales slower than mass does. Taller you are the less height you're able to generate so you can do fewer tricks. Also lower center of gravity would be helpful.
Biles is tiny. 4'8" puts her a little more than 3 standard deviations below the mean for adult women in the US. Which puts her in the bottom .1%.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Is it possible to change the rules to change the culture of child abuse around women's gymnastics and figure skating or do we like...eliminated those sports entirely? I feel like the incentives around a sport where it is advantageous to be tiny teenage girl are always going to lead to tragedy.
How is being a tiny teenage girl advantageous in either sport? There are coaches that have built systems around it, but it's turning out that it's not the be all end all (case in point - Oksana Chusovitina, who was an elite gymnast from Barcelona (1992) to Tokyo (2021).) Which gets back to the bigger point - yes, these sports can be saved, but the first step is giving the competitors a role in running them.
The tiny part makes sense as being advantageous because the power generation in limb muscles scales slower than mass does. Taller you are the less height you're able to generate so you can do fewer tricks. Also lower center of gravity would be helpful.
Biles is tiny. 4'8" puts her a little more than 3 standard deviations below the mean for adult women in the US. Which puts her in the bottom .1%.
Alright, tiny makes sense - but as older competitors are finding, they have the strength now to perform that they didn't as teens. That's the part I have issue with.
Is it possible to change the rules to change the culture of child abuse around women's gymnastics and figure skating or do we like...eliminated those sports entirely? I feel like the incentives around a sport where it is advantageous to be tiny teenage girl are always going to lead to tragedy.
How is being a tiny teenage girl advantageous in either sport? There are coaches that have built systems around it, but it's turning out that it's not the be all end all (case in point - Oksana Chusovitina, who was an elite gymnast from Barcelona (1992) to Tokyo (2021).) Which gets back to the bigger point - yes, these sports can be saved, but the first step is giving the competitors a role in running them.
The tiny part makes sense as being advantageous because the power generation in limb muscles scales slower than mass does. Taller you are the less height you're able to generate so you can do fewer tricks. Also lower center of gravity would be helpful.
Biles is tiny. 4'8" puts her a little more than 3 standard deviations below the mean for adult women in the US. Which puts her in the bottom .1%.
Alright, tiny makes sense - but as older competitors are finding, they have the strength now to perform that they didn't as teens. That's the part I have issue with.
Well, right. In the race to find super athletic tiny people to win you naturally turn to teenagers who aren't done growing because that is easier than finding people Biles' size with Biles' athleticism and Biles' drive/work ethic (I would imagine she is actually globally unique as a combination of those three factors). And that's a situation ripe for abuse. So the standards should change.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Honestly the transparently fucked up emotional abuse last night might have been worse.
The kid is already being abused by the coaches, now the whole world is treating her like shit.
She's just a fucking kid.
I’ve been really conflicted around the whole situation. She’s a kid, and clearly this is all solely the fault of her abusive coach (and county - they should not be permitted to still compete as the ROC, it should be as independent athletes or something else that removes Russia’s ability to still call that their team). At the same time, even if this was her one shot, it’s not fair for her to compete against the other athletes who didn’t take a banned substance. Of course the irony being that what she took wasn’t even going to make a difference in that she was that much of a favorite. She didn’t need that little bit of extra endurance she gained to still win.
I think it probably would have been better for all involved if she hadn’t been allowed to still compete. The added spotlight/scrutiny of her being allowed to despite the positive, which is above and beyond what the positive test itself would have caused, was certainly more detrimental to her mental health in the long run.
The coach broke that poor kid, and apparently the two others as well as her past skaters, and shouldn’t be allowed to keep doing it.
Also by letting her compete, they incentivize future abuse. Since if you can still win a medal with your juiced up wunderkid, even if you're caught, why not keep doping them.
Is it possible to change the rules to change the culture of child abuse around women's gymnastics and figure skating or do we like...eliminated those sports entirely? I feel like the incentives around a sport where it is advantageous to be tiny teenage girl are always going to lead to tragedy.
How is being a tiny teenage girl advantageous in either sport? There are coaches that have built systems around it, but it's turning out that it's not the be all end all (case in point - Oksana Chusovitina, who was an elite gymnast from Barcelona (1992) to Tokyo (2021).) Which gets back to the bigger point - yes, these sports can be saved, but the first step is giving the competitors a role in running them.
The tiny part makes sense as being advantageous because the power generation in limb muscles scales slower than mass does. Taller you are the less height you're able to generate so you can do fewer tricks. Also lower center of gravity would be helpful.
Biles is tiny. 4'8" puts her a little more than 3 standard deviations below the mean for adult women in the US. Which puts her in the bottom .1%.
Alright, tiny makes sense - but as older competitors are finding, they have the strength now to perform that they didn't as teens. That's the part I have issue with.
Well, right. In the race to find super athletic tiny people to win you naturally turn to teenagers who aren't done growing because that is easier than finding people Biles' size with Biles' athleticism and Biles' drive/work ethic (I would imagine she is actually globally unique as a combination of those three factors). And that's a situation ripe for abuse. So the standards should change.
It would also help if the media didn't portray the Olympics as a competition among rival nations akin to war without bullets rather than, you know, top athletes competing with each other. Putin didn't win a gold medal, and neither did Russia. Anna Shcherbakova did. I'd say good for her, except for all the rampant child abuse surrounding it.
Honestly the transparently fucked up emotional abuse last night might have been worse.
The kid is already being abused by the coaches, now the whole world is treating her like shit.
She's just a fucking kid.
I’ve been really conflicted around the whole situation. She’s a kid, and clearly this is all solely the fault of her abusive coach (and county - they should not be permitted to still compete as the ROC, it should be as independent athletes or something else that removes Russia’s ability to still call that their team). At the same time, even if this was her one shot, it’s not fair for her to compete against the other athletes who didn’t take a banned substance. Of course the irony being that what she took wasn’t even going to make a difference in that she was that much of a favorite. She didn’t need that little bit of extra endurance she gained to still win.
I think it probably would have been better for all involved if she hadn’t been allowed to still compete. The added spotlight/scrutiny of her being allowed to despite the positive, which is above and beyond what the positive test itself would have caused, was certainly more detrimental to her mental health in the long run.
The coach broke that poor kid, and apparently the two others as well as her past skaters, and shouldn’t be allowed to keep doing it.
Also by letting her compete, they incentivize future abuse. Since if you can still win a medal with your juiced up wunderkid, even if you're caught, why not keep doping them.
If you're going to allow the kid to compete, you need to turn around and ban the coach(es) to remove the incentive. You should probably do that regardless if there's any indication the coaches or program knew or were involved.
It is a competition between nations. China is the most famous for its state sponsored training program, but both state sponsored programs and incentivizing foreign nationals with a connection to compete for your country are extremely common.
Honestly the transparently fucked up emotional abuse last night might have been worse.
The kid is already being abused by the coaches, now the whole world is treating her like shit.
She's just a fucking kid.
I’ve been really conflicted around the whole situation. She’s a kid, and clearly this is all solely the fault of her abusive coach (and county - they should not be permitted to still compete as the ROC, it should be as independent athletes or something else that removes Russia’s ability to still call that their team). At the same time, even if this was her one shot, it’s not fair for her to compete against the other athletes who didn’t take a banned substance. Of course the irony being that what she took wasn’t even going to make a difference in that she was that much of a favorite. She didn’t need that little bit of extra endurance she gained to still win.
I think it probably would have been better for all involved if she hadn’t been allowed to still compete. The added spotlight/scrutiny of her being allowed to despite the positive, which is above and beyond what the positive test itself would have caused, was certainly more detrimental to her mental health in the long run.
The coach broke that poor kid, and apparently the two others as well as her past skaters, and shouldn’t be allowed to keep doing it.
Also by letting her compete, they incentivize future abuse. Since if you can still win a medal with your juiced up wunderkid, even if you're caught, why not keep doping them.
The problem is that by not letting her compete, they would be punishing someone who is very much a victim.
If the Russian team as a whole was actually banned until they cleaned up their act, as opposed to this weird "Russia's banned but Russia's athletic team isn't" thing masquerading as a compromise, that would do a better job of disincentivizing victimizing kids like this in general and without letting things get far enough to also humiliate them in the global spotlight when-not-if they get caught being doped up.
If the Russian team as a whole was actually banned until they cleaned up their act, as opposed to this weird "Russia's banned but Russia's athletic team isn't" thing masquerading as a compromise, that would do a better job of disincentivizing victimizing kids like this in general and without letting things get far enough to also humiliate them in the global spotlight when-not-if they get caught being doped up.
But then who would give the IOC lots of money for nothing?
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Basically, there's one clear course of action here, which should have been done years ago - Tutberidze needs to be banned from the sport. Given that she was the International Skating Union's coach of the year in 2020, I don't see that happening without pressure given the amount of crow that would need to be eaten.
The Russians need to be banned. This ROC thing is transparently bullshit and everyone knows it.
If the Russian team as a whole was actually banned until they cleaned up their act, as opposed to this weird "Russia's banned but Russia's athletic team isn't" thing masquerading as a compromise, that would do a better job of disincentivizing victimizing kids like this in general and without letting things get far enough to also humiliate them in the global spotlight when-not-if they get caught being doped up.
But then who would give the IOC lots of money for nothing?
That outcome would be an additional upside to the ban, yes.
Honestly the transparently fucked up emotional abuse last night might have been worse.
The kid is already being abused by the coaches, now the whole world is treating her like shit.
She's just a fucking kid.
I’ve been really conflicted around the whole situation. She’s a kid, and clearly this is all solely the fault of her abusive coach (and county - they should not be permitted to still compete as the ROC, it should be as independent athletes or something else that removes Russia’s ability to still call that their team). At the same time, even if this was her one shot, it’s not fair for her to compete against the other athletes who didn’t take a banned substance. Of course the irony being that what she took wasn’t even going to make a difference in that she was that much of a favorite. She didn’t need that little bit of extra endurance she gained to still win.
I think it probably would have been better for all involved if she hadn’t been allowed to still compete. The added spotlight/scrutiny of her being allowed to despite the positive, which is above and beyond what the positive test itself would have caused, was certainly more detrimental to her mental health in the long run.
The coach broke that poor kid, and apparently the two others as well as her past skaters, and shouldn’t be allowed to keep doing it.
Also by letting her compete, they incentivize future abuse. Since if you can still win a medal with your juiced up wunderkid, even if you're caught, why not keep doping them.
The problem is that by not letting her compete, they would be punishing someone who is very much a victim.
There are no good answers here.
Would you call what she went through since not being banned better? Seems like it just caused her even more negative attention and emotional harm than would have occurred if they just outright disqualified her.
I’ve seen the argument that she’s old enough to know what she was doing and that it was cheating, but that very much ignored the fact that she is coming from a very controlling environment where she likely really didn’t have a choice to say no. She was a victim. Disqualifying her would have been a mercy.
Honestly the transparently fucked up emotional abuse last night might have been worse.
The kid is already being abused by the coaches, now the whole world is treating her like shit.
She's just a fucking kid.
I’ve been really conflicted around the whole situation. She’s a kid, and clearly this is all solely the fault of her abusive coach (and county - they should not be permitted to still compete as the ROC, it should be as independent athletes or something else that removes Russia’s ability to still call that their team). At the same time, even if this was her one shot, it’s not fair for her to compete against the other athletes who didn’t take a banned substance. Of course the irony being that what she took wasn’t even going to make a difference in that she was that much of a favorite. She didn’t need that little bit of extra endurance she gained to still win.
I think it probably would have been better for all involved if she hadn’t been allowed to still compete. The added spotlight/scrutiny of her being allowed to despite the positive, which is above and beyond what the positive test itself would have caused, was certainly more detrimental to her mental health in the long run.
The coach broke that poor kid, and apparently the two others as well as her past skaters, and shouldn’t be allowed to keep doing it.
Also by letting her compete, they incentivize future abuse. Since if you can still win a medal with your juiced up wunderkid, even if you're caught, why not keep doping them.
The problem is that by not letting her compete, they would be punishing someone who is very much a victim.
There are no good answers here.
Would you call what she went through since not being banned better? Seems like it just caused her even more negative attention and emotional harm than would have occurred if they just outright disqualified her.
I’ve seen the argument that she’s old enough to know what she was doing and that it was cheating, but that very much ignored the fact that she is coming from a very controlling environment where she likely really didn’t have a choice to say no. She was a victim. Disqualifying her would have been a mercy.
She'd still be a victim, just one who the victimizers could no longer exploit but still retained power over.
Is it possible to change the rules to change the culture of child abuse around women's gymnastics and figure skating or do we like...eliminated those sports entirely? I feel like the incentives around a sport where it is advantageous to be tiny teenage girl are always going to lead to tragedy.
How is being a tiny teenage girl advantageous in either sport? There are coaches that have built systems around it, but it's turning out that it's not the be all end all (case in point - Oksana Chusovitina, who was an elite gymnast from Barcelona (1992) to Tokyo (2021).) Which gets back to the bigger point - yes, these sports can be saved, but the first step is giving the competitors a role in running them.
The tiny part makes sense as being advantageous because the power generation in limb muscles scales slower than mass does. Taller you are the less height you're able to generate so you can do fewer tricks. Also lower center of gravity would be helpful.
Biles is tiny. 4'8" puts her a little more than 3 standard deviations below the mean for adult women in the US. Which puts her in the bottom .1%.
Alright, tiny makes sense - but as older competitors are finding, they have the strength now to perform that they didn't as teens. That's the part I have issue with.
That strength comes at the cost of flexibility and recuperation. As great as Biles still is, her best years are behind her. Compare world competitions to NCAA gymnastics and you'll see the adults generally have a more stylistic approach because they can't do the high difficulty tricks.
Is it possible to change the rules to change the culture of child abuse around women's gymnastics and figure skating or do we like...eliminated those sports entirely? I feel like the incentives around a sport where it is advantageous to be tiny teenage girl are always going to lead to tragedy.
How is being a tiny teenage girl advantageous in either sport? There are coaches that have built systems around it, but it's turning out that it's not the be all end all (case in point - Oksana Chusovitina, who was an elite gymnast from Barcelona (1992) to Tokyo (2021).) Which gets back to the bigger point - yes, these sports can be saved, but the first step is giving the competitors a role in running them.
The tiny part makes sense as being advantageous because the power generation in limb muscles scales slower than mass does. Taller you are the less height you're able to generate so you can do fewer tricks. Also lower center of gravity would be helpful.
Biles is tiny. 4'8" puts her a little more than 3 standard deviations below the mean for adult women in the US. Which puts her in the bottom .1%.
Alright, tiny makes sense - but as older competitors are finding, they have the strength now to perform that they didn't as teens. That's the part I have issue with.
That strength comes at the cost of flexibility and recuperation. As great as Biles still is, her best years are behind her. Compare world competitions to NCAA gymnastics and you'll see the adults generally have a more stylistic approach because they can't do the high difficulty tricks.
And the focus on "difficulty" over other elements is literally the heart of the scandal we're talking about - currently, Tutberidze is the only coach whose female skaters can hit quads, and I think we can all agree that the price those girls have paid for that is not worth it.
Over at Defector, there's a story where three whistleblowers have come forward about the abuse they suffered at Midwest Gymnastics and the gym's owner and coach Jess Graba. Part of why they came forward is that as the coach for the current Olympic women's all-around champion, Graba is on the short list to become the new national team head coach.
We’re going to keep seeing gyms going Ivan Drago on kids until we get credible, non-corrupt governing bodies that can regulate their sports effectively
Also Jess Graba is the husband of the main villain coach, who herself was a child athlete student of Graba’s
When he was 22 and she was 4…they married 22 years later
One Defector commenter theorized that Jess Graba’s social media must be full of argle bargle about groomers and I nodded in agreement
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ButtersA glass of some milksRegistered Userregular
We’re going to keep seeing gyms going Ivan Drago on kids until we get credible, non-corrupt governing bodies that can regulate their sports effectively
Also Jess Graba is the husband of the main villain coach, who herself was a child athlete student of Graba’s
When he was 22 and she was 4…they married 22 years later
One Defector commenter theorized that Jess Graba’s social media must be full of argle bargle about groomers and I nodded in agreement
Olympic gymnastics gold medalist Simone Biles and dozens of other women who say they were sexually assaulted by Larry Nassar are seeking more than $1 billion from the FBI for failing to stop the now-convicted sports doctor when the agency first received allegations against him, lawyers said Wednesday.
There’s no dispute that FBI agents in 2015 knew that Nassar was accused of molesting gymnasts, but they failed to act, leaving him free to continue to target young women and girls for more than a year.
I don't feel they're wrong to do this, but I don't know what the long term results are expected. Especially given that DOJ has declined to pursue charges against any of the agents involved. Had the DOJ done that, it would be clear there would be someone willing to accept responsibility. That the chain of command in the FBI had recognized there needs to be accountability to both the public and to victims.
All opinions are my own and in no way reflect that of my employer.
Olympic gymnastics gold medalist Simone Biles and dozens of other women who say they were sexually assaulted by Larry Nassar are seeking more than $1 billion from the FBI for failing to stop the now-convicted sports doctor when the agency first received allegations against him, lawyers said Wednesday.
There’s no dispute that FBI agents in 2015 knew that Nassar was accused of molesting gymnasts, but they failed to act, leaving him free to continue to target young women and girls for more than a year.
I don't feel they're wrong to do this, but I don't know what the long term results are expected. Especially given that DOJ has declined to pursue charges against any of the agents involved. Had the DOJ done that, it would be clear there would be someone willing to accept responsibility. That the chain of command in the FBI had recognized there needs to be accountability to both the public and to victims.
The point is to make it hurt for the FBI so that the next time an agent decides to ignore abuse, the institution remembers the pain and reacts accordingly.
Unfortunately, what will probably happen is nothing because the courts have consistently ruled that the state does not have a duty to protect individuals, and the FBI will appeal this up until the get to the Supreme Court where the current terrible make up of it will affirm that position.
They've been forcing reform through the legal system at every relevant institution. That was the part of the settlement with MSU that they really cared about, for example.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
The International Skating Union is raising the minimum age for athletes in its most high-profile competitions from 15 to 17. The move comes months after Russia's Kamila Valieva was caught in a storm of controversy at the Beijing Winter Olympics when she was just 15 years old.
The age requirement will remain unchanged for the upcoming season, but it will rise to 16 in the following year and to 17 for the 2024-25 season, ahead of the 2026 Winter Olympics.
The new age minimum will apply to several disciplines, from speed skating and figure skating to ice dance and synchronized skating, after the ISU Congress approved the changes on Tuesday at its biennial meeting.
The International Skating Union is raising the minimum age for athletes in its most high-profile competitions from 15 to 17. The move comes months after Russia's Kamila Valieva was caught in a storm of controversy at the Beijing Winter Olympics when she was just 15 years old.
The age requirement will remain unchanged for the upcoming season, but it will rise to 16 in the following year and to 17 for the 2024-25 season, ahead of the 2026 Winter Olympics.
The new age minimum will apply to several disciplines, from speed skating and figure skating to ice dance and synchronized skating, after the ISU Congress approved the changes on Tuesday at its biennial meeting.
It's not going to stop all abuse (as they'll still be training kids well before that, you don't turn 17 and then start competing). But it'll stop some, and that makes it worth it.
Some will probably miss out on opportunities, which is sad. But the systemic abuse (just purely physical, let alone mental/emotional/pharmaceutical) put into children to allow them to compete at the highest levels, that's sadder. So I'm all for preventing that. As I said in a different thread earlier today, when it comes to consent from children and extreme measures, there's only so much I'm willing to accept before it's clearly abusive.
Ken Starr is dead. Most famous for the Lewinsky bullshit, but the way he handled sexual assault at Baylor was the far more serious stain on his soul. If he had one.
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Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
He also defended Epstein.
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
No, he didn't defend Epstein. He was sent to deal with then-USA Alex Acosta to send a very specific message - play ball with us, and there will be a cushy landing spot for you.
The threeprimarywriters at Lawyers, Guns, and Money each had their own things to say about Starr (none of it good.)
GM Alejandro Ramirez is currently under investigation by US Chess and the Saint Louis Chess Club for sexual misconduct. In a tweet on Wednesday, WGM Jennifer Shahade claims to have been assaulted twice by Ramirez and also that she saw "alarming evidence" from other victims.
42-year-old Shahade is a two-time United States women's champion, author, and poker player. As a commentator for top-level chess events held at the Saint Louis Chess Club, for many years she has worked alongside Ramirez, a 34-year-old Costa Rican-American grandmaster, coach, and commentator. Why we haven't seen Shahade in the St. Louis live broadcasts lately was revealed today.
Shahade made her accusations toward Ramirez public in a tweet on Wednesday that said: "Time's up." Attached is the following statement:
Currently there are multiple investigations underway on Alejandro Ramirez and sexual misconduct, including a series of alleged incidents involving a minor. I was assaulted by him twice, 9 and 10 years ago. I'd moved on until the past couple years, when multiple women, independent of each other and with no knowledge of my own experience, approached me with their own stories of alleged abuse. These accounts were from much younger alleged victims. I saw alarming evidence, including texts that admitted abuse of a minor while he was coaching her, as well as a text to an alleged victim about being an underage "temptress."
The road to investigation and potential consequences has been a very stressful process. You may have noticed I've taken a major step back from commentary as this plays out. I've filled the time with poker, writing, and promoting girls in chess. And yet a lot of that work to make chess more inclusive is futile if we cannot make crystal clear that the safety of women, girls, and children is of the highest priority. And that's why I'm speaking out now. Thanks for your support and patience for more details.
It shouldn't be a surprise, honestly. Like gymnastics, there's a huge emphasis on child talent in chess. In fact the whole recent cheating scandal started because the guy in question reached grandmaster rank at 17, with common wisdom that you "had" to be a grandmaster by 14 and absolutely no later than 16 to ever reach the top levels of the game.
For this kind of thing there's also almost no women at the top level (partially because of this behavior). Every female titled player I've seen interviewed says this happens constantly.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Fifteen days earlier, Moffett’s daughter, Quinn Moffett, had been found dead in the bathroom of her boyfriend’s house. All signs pointed to an accidental drug overdose.
But as Moffett saw it, her daughter’s death was the culmination of a downward spiral that began the summer of 2018, when Quinn said a Wolverines football player sexually assaulted her while two other players stood by and watched. Quinn had told people she thought she had been drugged and that at least one of the men took photos or videos.
“Whatever happened back in 2018,” Moffett wrote to Harbaugh and Manuel, “was the catalyst for so much of the pain, sadness, and depression that took away the beautiful light she was, and left her struggling so much for the last few years.”
Moffett didn’t know it at the time, but her letter would land with the university’s Title IX office, campus police, the Ann Arbor Police Department and the Washtenaw County Prosecutor’s Office. They would all look into the allegations. Within about two months, all of them would drop it.
The police would never try to question the three players or anyone else in the football program about the incident and possible video evidence. The school would decline to launch a formal investigation and never speak to the athlete accused of the assault, who had transferred to another university. No one would talk to a fourth player, who told USA TODAY he had been invited over that night but was turned away at the door by his teammates.
With Quinn dead, the authorities would decide it wasn’t worth pursuing.
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How is being a tiny teenage girl advantageous in either sport? There are coaches that have built systems around it, but it's turning out that it's not the be all end all (case in point - Oksana Chusovitina, who was an elite gymnast from Barcelona (1992) to Tokyo (2021).) Which gets back to the bigger point - yes, these sports can be saved, but the first step is giving the competitors a role in running them.
The tiny part makes sense as being advantageous because the power generation in limb muscles scales slower than mass does. Taller you are the less height you're able to generate so you can do fewer tricks. Also lower center of gravity would be helpful.
Biles is tiny. 4'8" puts her a little more than 3 standard deviations below the mean for adult women in the US. Which puts her in the bottom .1%.
Alright, tiny makes sense - but as older competitors are finding, they have the strength now to perform that they didn't as teens. That's the part I have issue with.
Well, right. In the race to find super athletic tiny people to win you naturally turn to teenagers who aren't done growing because that is easier than finding people Biles' size with Biles' athleticism and Biles' drive/work ethic (I would imagine she is actually globally unique as a combination of those three factors). And that's a situation ripe for abuse. So the standards should change.
Also by letting her compete, they incentivize future abuse. Since if you can still win a medal with your juiced up wunderkid, even if you're caught, why not keep doping them.
It would also help if the media didn't portray the Olympics as a competition among rival nations akin to war without bullets rather than, you know, top athletes competing with each other. Putin didn't win a gold medal, and neither did Russia. Anna Shcherbakova did. I'd say good for her, except for all the rampant child abuse surrounding it.
If you're going to allow the kid to compete, you need to turn around and ban the coach(es) to remove the incentive. You should probably do that regardless if there's any indication the coaches or program knew or were involved.
It is a competition between nations. China is the most famous for its state sponsored training program, but both state sponsored programs and incentivizing foreign nationals with a connection to compete for your country are extremely common.
The problem is that by not letting her compete, they would be punishing someone who is very much a victim.
There are no good answers here.
But then who would give the IOC lots of money for nothing?
The Russians need to be banned. This ROC thing is transparently bullshit and everyone knows it.
That outcome would be an additional upside to the ban, yes.
Would you call what she went through since not being banned better? Seems like it just caused her even more negative attention and emotional harm than would have occurred if they just outright disqualified her.
I’ve seen the argument that she’s old enough to know what she was doing and that it was cheating, but that very much ignored the fact that she is coming from a very controlling environment where she likely really didn’t have a choice to say no. She was a victim. Disqualifying her would have been a mercy.
She'd still be a victim, just one who the victimizers could no longer exploit but still retained power over.
I fail to see how her competing somehow helped this.
That strength comes at the cost of flexibility and recuperation. As great as Biles still is, her best years are behind her. Compare world competitions to NCAA gymnastics and you'll see the adults generally have a more stylistic approach because they can't do the high difficulty tricks.
And the focus on "difficulty" over other elements is literally the heart of the scandal we're talking about - currently, Tutberidze is the only coach whose female skaters can hit quads, and I think we can all agree that the price those girls have paid for that is not worth it.
Also Jess Graba is the husband of the main villain coach, who herself was a child athlete student of Graba’s
When he was 22 and she was 4…they married 22 years later
One Defector commenter theorized that Jess Graba’s social media must be full of argle bargle about groomers and I nodded in agreement
This made me vomit in my mouth a little bit
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2022-06-08/simone-biles-gymnasts-sue-fbi-larry-nassar
I don't feel they're wrong to do this, but I don't know what the long term results are expected. Especially given that DOJ has declined to pursue charges against any of the agents involved. Had the DOJ done that, it would be clear there would be someone willing to accept responsibility. That the chain of command in the FBI had recognized there needs to be accountability to both the public and to victims.
The point is to make it hurt for the FBI so that the next time an agent decides to ignore abuse, the institution remembers the pain and reacts accordingly.
It's not going to stop all abuse (as they'll still be training kids well before that, you don't turn 17 and then start competing). But it'll stop some, and that makes it worth it.
Some will probably miss out on opportunities, which is sad. But the systemic abuse (just purely physical, let alone mental/emotional/pharmaceutical) put into children to allow them to compete at the highest levels, that's sadder. So I'm all for preventing that. As I said in a different thread earlier today, when it comes to consent from children and extreme measures, there's only so much I'm willing to accept before it's clearly abusive.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
No, he didn't defend Epstein. He was sent to deal with then-USA Alex Acosta to send a very specific message - play ball with us, and there will be a cushy landing spot for you.
The three primary writers at Lawyers, Guns, and Money each had their own things to say about Starr (none of it good.)
pleasepaypreacher.net
Kissengers power comes from others dying.
My hope is Putin fulfills the trifecta but hey fate, surprise me.
Truly, a return to Soviet Russia!
Yes, chess: