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Helping You Build A Better [Home Network]

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Bullhead wrote: »
    Apologies for Necro'ing this thread, but I thought it might be the most appropriate place to ask this - My girlfriend is in the process of moving in with me, and has a number of "smart home" things she's very fond of. Specifically, a Ring doorbell, a number of Alexa devices, and lots of smart lightbulbs. While I can't deny the convenience of them all, I still have reservations about the security of it.

    Some questions/thoughts:
    1. If I simply put these things on a guest network (so they can see my internal devices, i.e. PC/PS5/etc), is that sufficient security?
    2. Are any brands better than others at security?
    3. Best practices for securing them?

    And any other feedback on them would be welcome!

    So, when I set up my Christmas lights, I put the smart plugs on the guest network for the time they're going, to reduce the access that they have to the overall network. Most of my other smart devices are connected to the main network, mainly because they are a) either within the house or b) are in protected enclosures outside.

    As for brands, I tend to stick with ones with significant presence, and stay away from ones that I've heard little about.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    VoodooVVoodooV Registered User regular
    Installed the recent update for PiHole the other day. now there is this new alerting system for PiHole issues and it was going crazy right after the update with messages like this:

    "dnsmasq-dhcp[464]: not giving name localhost to the DHCP lease of 192.168.1.XX because the name exists in /etc/hosts with address 127.0.0.1" (this is not the precise message since I've resolved the issue so I copied this from a forum describing the issue)

    after some google searching, apparently this is an old issue going back as early as 2015 where samsung devices give themselves a hostname of localhost which is generally reserved for loopback and it was making pihole angry, but never really knew about it till this update brought it to my attention more visibly.

    Samsung has apparently ignored this issue and the workaround is to go into pihole or whatever is acting as your DHCP server and set up a static DHCP assignment where you can give it a different DNS name.

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    AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    Just upgraded my wireless router to something that supports Wi-Fi 6. I see on the 2.4ghz band there are options for beamforming, OFDMA and MU-MIMO but they are all disabled by default. Any reason I shouldn't turn those on? My only real concern would be I have a lot of IoT devices on that band that are from the 802.11g days, don't want to cause connectivity issues for those.

    cs6f034fsffl.jpg
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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    If they're already connecting now that you're running 802.11ax, the options you listed shouldn't cause connection issues. The only one I see maybe causing problems is OFDMA, but give the other two a shot for sure. Beamforming in particular is a pretty nice boost for a lot of devices.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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    MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    edited May 2022
    Nevermind, duh.

    Just needed to type it out apparently. Eero would control 2.4 and 5Ghz.

    MichaelLC on
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    AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    Got another network question. My home network is managed through a router. I also have an unmanaged switch with multiple devices attached to it, and the switch is attached to the router.

    How does data flow between devices attached to the switch in this scenario? Let's say I am streaming a movie from a NAS to a TV and they are both connected to the switch. Does the data only flow through the switch? Or does it go all the way out through the router and back?

    cs6f034fsffl.jpg
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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited May 2022
    Got another network question. My home network is managed through a router. I also have an unmanaged switch with multiple devices attached to it, and the switch is attached to the router.

    How does data flow between devices attached to the switch in this scenario? Let's say I am streaming a movie from a NAS to a TV and they are both connected to the switch. Does the data only flow through the switch? Or does it go all the way out through the router and back?

    It would only go to the switch, because the packets would point specifically to the MAC and IP addresses for the devices, and the switch is smart enough to make sure that the packets go to the right device.

    In general, TCP/IP networks work by having nodes like your switch try to figure out if an incoming packet can be handled at their level or needs to be sent upstream to be handled by devices up the chain. These networks use a hub and spoke topology, which is why plugging a switch into itself (and this happens more often than you think) will bring a network to its knees.

    AngelHedgie on
    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    HydropoloHydropolo Registered User regular
    To give a bit more detail, it's going to depend on a number of factors.

    1) Subnet mask. If your devices are on the same subnet, they are going to handle everything through the switch using MAC addresses after looking up the MAC that your PC's IP is at. If they in different subnets, they would forward via the switch to your router.... POSSIBLY out further if your network is really screwy.
    2) VLANs: You are incredibly unlikely to have these with an unmanaged switch (But I've seen sillier). These are technically not a routing/etc domain, but can force traffic up to a/the router. Generally speaking, you CAN do the same subnet split over vlans, but... it's a bad idea. Generally speaking you will be using big boy hardware before you get to that point and have a very specific reason.

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Given that CloudFlare has shown that they choose to defend transphobia and hate, I have updated my post on setting up cloudflared to note that I no longer recommend this.

    Instead, my recommendation is to set up your own recursive DNS lookup server using unbound - the Pi-Hole folks have an excellent guide on getting unbound up and running on your Pi-Hole.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    So hey my router is 10 years old and I kind of suspect that maybe it's slowly dying because I have short disconnects from the internet. It's kinda hard to troubleshoot, but I was wondering about something:

    Would a newer router have any benefits over the old one? Have there been improvements in utility, speed or security?

    We're with 2 wired PCs, 3 phones, 1 TV and 1 tablet on our network. Our modem is in bridge mode with the router handling all traffic. We currently have a ASUS RT N12.

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    PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    couple of things to consider. do you have internet coming in that would let you use more bandwidth. i think your router only does 2.4Ghz and a newer will give you 5Ghz which is good for short range stronger signals. Maybe some other features like dual channels might be useful for wifi? Also, there are some newer wifi standards and i think your router only goes to n.

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Aldo wrote: »
    So hey my router is 10 years old and I kind of suspect that maybe it's slowly dying because I have short disconnects from the internet. It's kinda hard to troubleshoot, but I was wondering about something:

    Would a newer router have any benefits over the old one? Have there been improvements in utility, speed or security?

    We're with 2 wired PCs, 3 phones, 1 TV and 1 tablet on our network. Our modem is in bridge mode with the router handling all traffic. We currently have a ASUS RT N12.

    Short answer: Yes.

    Longer answer: A new router will have more power under the hood, be running newer Wi-Fi protocols, and have continued support.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    Thanks for your answers, I'm going to buy a new one, see if that fixes my current problem and enjoy the fresh new router smell for the future. Especially when we get fiber optic in my neighborhood it's going to make a difference in our wireless connections.

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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited January 2023
    Last weekend I picked up a two-pack of TP-Link XE75 or whatever the actual model number is, and I'm liking it a lot so far. My Internet Hole™ is by the front door, so I got tired of having stuff living on the hat shelf. Now I only have one of the devices there, and then a wireless connection from it to the living room. It has three ethernet ports per device for plugging things in, if you don't want to do wifi for all devices.

    Haven't done a whole lot of testing but it's been good stuff so far. You can have it either as an actual router, or an access point behind an existing router.

    Echo on
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    PailryderPailryder Registered User regular
    the deco mesh stuff has worked very well for me.

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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    Pailryder wrote: »
    the deco mesh stuff has worked very well for me.

    At some point I want to do port forwarding because I'm a nerd with a Kubernetes cluster in my apartment, but so far it's been working great.

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    LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    I’m getting ready to move and will need to supply my own router, I have one that’s like 5 years old that I assume I need to upgrade. Are there any recommended brands? I’ve used Netgear in the past.

    Conversely what is the preferred Mesh system currently and is they a reason I should use one over the other? Overall area in <2000 sqft., one story but I think the walls were made fairly thick based on cell service I get inside vs outside of the house.

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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    I'm happy with the pair of TP-Link XE75 units I got. I could definitely do with just a single one for my apartment, but it's also about the convenience of getting rid of network cables. The fiber splitter is by my hat shelf, so I have one unit there, and the other in the living room where I actually have a couple of devices hardwired to it rather than being on the wifi.
    Echo wrote: »
    At some point I want to do port forwarding because I'm a nerd with a Kubernetes cluster in my apartment, but so far it's been working great.

    And on that note, Cloudflare Tunnel is pretty awesome and I don't have to bother with opening and forwarding ports.

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Echo wrote: »
    I'm happy with the pair of TP-Link XE75 units I got. I could definitely do with just a single one for my apartment, but it's also about the convenience of getting rid of network cables. The fiber splitter is by my hat shelf, so I have one unit there, and the other in the living room where I actually have a couple of devices hardwired to it rather than being on the wifi.
    Echo wrote: »
    At some point I want to do port forwarding because I'm a nerd with a Kubernetes cluster in my apartment, but so far it's been working great.

    And on that note, Cloudflare Tunnel is pretty awesome and I don't have to bother with opening and forwarding ports.

    Well, other than that whole "defending bigotry" thing the company has for some unfathomable reason.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    GilgaronGilgaron Registered User regular
    I was thinking about making a pi hole, looking around I've seen recommendations of a raspberry pi 4 with 2 GB RAM, others saying the cheapest pi you can find is fine... any recommendations from you guys? I've not messed with a pi before and hate networking but am looking at this as a security measure for the household given the crap ads are these days.

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    edited May 2023
    Gilgaron wrote: »
    I was thinking about making a pi hole, looking around I've seen recommendations of a raspberry pi 4 with 2 GB RAM, others saying the cheapest pi you can find is fine... any recommendations from you guys? I've not messed with a pi before and hate networking but am looking at this as a security measure for the household given the crap ads are these days.

    As I said before, Pi-Hole will run on almost anything, as it has a modest footprint. The reason why the Pi 4 is recommended is because it has native gigabit Ethernet, which is important because this is going to be network infrastructure that sees a lot of traffic, especially if you're using it for both DNS and DHCP.

    Edit: You'll also want to run unbound (a lightweight recursive DNS resolver based on BIND) as well to completely bring DNS resolution in house.

    Edit 2: For what it's worth the 2GB RAM Pi 4 is what Pi-Hole is running on here at Casa Hedgie.

    AngelHedgie on
    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    GilgaronGilgaron Registered User regular
    Cool thanks wanted to be sure that was still current best practice since tech ages so fast. Do these get restocked regularly at microcenter? Seems like the only ones for sale are marked up kits on Amazon like this https://a.co/d/hTfAyNq but maybe that is just how it goes with these sorts of things

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Gilgaron wrote: »
    Cool thanks wanted to be sure that was still current best practice since tech ages so fast. Do these get restocked regularly at microcenter? Seems like the only ones for sale are marked up kits on Amazon like this https://a.co/d/hTfAyNq but maybe that is just how it goes with these sorts of things

    Those kits give you everything you need for your Pi to run - including a case, power supply, cooling, and such.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    chromdomchromdom Who? Where?Registered User regular
    Neophyte / near-luddite questions!
    I am finally moving into an apartment with (Ziply) fiber instead of cable.
    If I want to do it myself instead of waiting 2 months for an installation appointment, what am I looking at?
    A router plus some cable? Right?
    I've got an old desktop, a laptop, tv, and an X-Box. Laptop (and my phone of course) will need to connect on wifi, but I'd like to wire te the rest physically.
    Any suggestions? Router I should get/stay away from? Things to do? Things to stay away from?

    Please don't let me walk into this like an idiot!

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    chromdom wrote: »
    Neophyte / near-luddite questions!
    I am finally moving into an apartment with (Ziply) fiber instead of cable.
    If I want to do it myself instead of waiting 2 months for an installation appointment, what am I looking at?
    A router plus some cable? Right?
    I've got an old desktop, a laptop, tv, and an X-Box. Laptop (and my phone of course) will need to connect on wifi, but I'd like to wire te the rest physically.
    Any suggestions? Router I should get/stay away from? Things to do? Things to stay away from?

    Please don't let me walk into this like an idiot!

    So, fiber is a very different beast than cable, and actually connecting the fiber is not something you can do yourself. That said, what you need to find out is how the connection is being done - some apartments will have individual fiber connections, others might have a main fiber trunk that gets routed out centrally to units. Without knowing exactly how this is set up, I can't give you specific information on your use case.

    That said, fiber is "similar" to cable in that once installed, you'll have a fiber-Ethernet converter that works like a cable modem (though it's possible that you may not see it if your apartment has everything centralized.) You'll connect your router's WAN port to that, and that will provide your network with external connectivity.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    zepherinzepherin Russian warship, go fuck yourself Registered User regular
    edited August 2023
    chromdom wrote: »
    Neophyte / near-luddite questions!
    I am finally moving into an apartment with (Ziply) fiber instead of cable.
    If I want to do it myself instead of waiting 2 months for an installation appointment, what am I looking at?
    A router plus some cable? Right?
    I've got an old desktop, a laptop, tv, and an X-Box. Laptop (and my phone of course) will need to connect on wifi, but I'd like to wire te the rest physically.
    Any suggestions? Router I should get/stay away from? Things to do? Things to stay away from?

    Please don't let me walk into this like an idiot!

    So, fiber is a very different beast than cable, and actually connecting the fiber is not something you can do yourself. That said, what you need to find out is how the connection is being done - some apartments will have individual fiber connections, others might have a main fiber trunk that gets routed out centrally to units. Without knowing exactly how this is set up, I can't give you specific information on your use case.

    That said, fiber is "similar" to cable in that once installed, you'll have a fiber-Ethernet converter that works like a cable modem (though it's possible that you may not see it if your apartment has everything centralized.) You'll connect your router's WAN port to that, and that will provide your network with external connectivity.
    You can get pre terminated fiber cable, but as someone who has tried to run it. I have literally shattered the tubes inside it and ruined the cable. Let them do it. Also most fiber places are faster at scheduling an install than comcast and spectrum. Apartments are often a next week kind of affair. Especially if it’s already wired.

    zepherin on
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    chromdomchromdom Who? Where?Registered User regular
    Yeah, Ziply, at least around here, doesn't have weekend installation appointments for months.

    A crimp in the plan, it seems.

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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    So this is maybe a bit of a fancy question for a typical home network setup, but I'll start here before I go bother people in the tech forum.

    I currently have one NAS that also serves a bunch of apps, plus one small Kubernetes cluster running on a bunch of Raspberries. I'm at the stage where I'd like to have some of the admin UIs reachable from the big scary internet -- NAS file data optional, but nice to have.

    ...so I guess it's time for an actual non-Baby's First Firewall firewall. This is where I'm drawing a blank, because networking is pretty uncharted territory for me.

    I've heard WireGuard being thrown around every here and there. Yes? No? Yesno? What hardware to look at?

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Echo wrote: »
    So this is maybe a bit of a fancy question for a typical home network setup, but I'll start here before I go bother people in the tech forum.

    I currently have one NAS that also serves a bunch of apps, plus one small Kubernetes cluster running on a bunch of Raspberries. I'm at the stage where I'd like to have some of the admin UIs reachable from the big scary internet -- NAS file data optional, but nice to have.

    ...so I guess it's time for an actual non-Baby's First Firewall firewall. This is where I'm drawing a blank, because networking is pretty uncharted territory for me.

    I've heard WireGuard being thrown around every here and there. Yes? No? Yesno? What hardware to look at?

    So, you want to roll your own, or go with an actual turnkey solution? If the former, there are dual-NIC NUCs designed for slapping pfSense on and calling it a day. If you'd prefer dealing with a vendor who supplies things like actual support, Ubiquiti is popular - my lead had shown off his (frankly overkill) home setup using their gear to me.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    GilgaronGilgaron Registered User regular
    I finally got around to this, it was pretty easy apart from the micro card reader in the kit I got being busted (told me the card was broken but things were hunky dory using my own card reader) and some mild confusion with starting out headless and needing to run some system updates via SSH before the VCN was stable enough to use.

    Had a quick question though, if I am just using this as a DNS server with Google WiFi how Johnny on the spot do I have to be if my Pi were to let its magic smoke out? Would it just be going into the Google Home network settings and changing the DNS server back to default or will there be lots of black magic to perform? I have this on the same UPS as my Synology NAS so it'll be pretty safe but I had seen some stuff online where using it as a DHCP server and having it fail could be problematic but I may have misunderstood the issue.

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Gilgaron wrote: »
    I finally got around to this, it was pretty easy apart from the micro card reader in the kit I got being busted (told me the card was broken but things were hunky dory using my own card reader) and some mild confusion with starting out headless and needing to run some system updates via SSH before the VCN was stable enough to use.

    Had a quick question though, if I am just using this as a DNS server with Google WiFi how Johnny on the spot do I have to be if my Pi were to let its magic smoke out? Would it just be going into the Google Home network settings and changing the DNS server back to default or will there be lots of black magic to perform? I have this on the same UPS as my Synology NAS so it'll be pretty safe but I had seen some stuff online where using it as a DHCP server and having it fail could be problematic but I may have misunderstood the issue.

    Okay, so DNS and DHCP are two different beasties that do two different things:

    * Domain Name Service (DNS): This is the system that allows fully qualified domain names (FQDNs) to be dynamically translated to IP addresses so that you can actually go to the website you asked for. It's also how Pi-Hole does its black magic, as it uses DNS to intercept and kill calls to blacklisted domains. If your Pi-Hole goes down, you would only need to tell your router to inform devices what the DNS settings are (I would recommend Quad9 for an upstream provider if you're not going to run your own recursive DNS server.)

    I've discussed How DNS Works in other posts in the thread, if you want to understand what's happening under the hood.

    * Dynamic Host Control Protocol (DHCP): This is a way to dynamically allocate IP addresses from a pool - it was originally designed to allow for a small pool of IP addresses to be used more efficiently among a larger set of machines that may not always need a connection, but has basically become How To Handle IP Allocation Period because it's a single turnkey solution to setting up IP addresses. If your DHCP server goes down, you won't see issues right away, but as address leases expire, your devices will no longer be able to connect as they won't have IP addresses. Again, you can just turn on your router's DHCP server in that case.

    That said, there's no issue with having your Pi-Hole serve as both (and it's designed to be able to.) However, anything that is part of your network's core structure, like the router, the Pi-Hole, your NAS - those should not be on DHCP, but instead have a static route - their IP address should be manually and permanently assigned. In addition, with your devices on static routes, you can use Pi-Hole to assign them local FQDNs to reach them (i.e. I can get to my router via "router.hedgienet" at home) through the web interface.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    GilgaronGilgaron Registered User regular
    Ok that makes sense, the problem had something to do with being unable to get back into his Google wifi router after the DHCP server failed from the app, because that's the only way to manage them vs logging into their IP directly like more traditional routers. So he must've set his router to get its IP from the pi or some other mistake. It wasn't something widely discussed in other threads I'd seen online but I figured I should check with more learned minds.

    Do you use your pi to VPN into your network as well or do you leave it closed off? I came across that on the pihole subreddit and it seems neat but on the other hand I can't think of a reason I'd want to VPN into home since I can already get into the NAS and the smarthome type stuff... and while using the pi hole on the VPN to filter ads on the go might be a fun party trick I imagine it wouldn't be worthwhile.

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Gilgaron wrote: »
    Ok that makes sense, the problem had something to do with being unable to get back into his Google wifi router after the DHCP server failed from the app, because that's the only way to manage them vs logging into their IP directly like more traditional routers. So he must've set his router to get its IP from the pi or some other mistake. It wasn't something widely discussed in other threads I'd seen online but I figured I should check with more learned minds.

    That's unusual, as the router needs to have a static route, given that the address of the router is the gateway address. And yeah, that's part of why I wouldn't use a Google router - I want full control of my network.
    Do you use your pi to VPN into your network as well or do you leave it closed off? I came across that on the pihole subreddit and it seems neat but on the other hand I can't think of a reason I'd want to VPN into home since I can already get into the NAS and the smarthome type stuff... and while using the pi hole on the VPN to filter ads on the go might be a fun party trick I imagine it wouldn't be worthwhile.

    I leave it closed, because the simple truth is that any hole you punch in your network firewall a) makes it less secure and b) adds more management work for you.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    Unifi has a new cute little thing out? I just got TP-Link stuff this summer, but given all the good stuff I keep hearing about Unifi, when those kick the buckets I'd get something like this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbIamWqXjAk

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Echo wrote: »
    Unifi has a new cute little thing out? I just got TP-Link stuff this summer, but given all the good stuff I keep hearing about Unifi, when those kick the buckets I'd get something like this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbIamWqXjAk

    As I said before, Ubiquti is pretty much where you go once you need to go past consumer grade gear and want a turnkey solution.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    I set up a UDM SE with a couple in wall APs recently and it's kind of amazing. Just way deeper control than I ever had with consumer routers. I can block specific countries, stop the kid from accessing certain apps at different times of day, really prioritize specific equipment.. it's great.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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