"Orson Welles took me to lunch. He ordered for both of us. Then he asked a very pertinent question: 'What does it mean for a magician to perform on radio?' And then he ate both lunches."
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
Orson Welles absolute 180 from pure hatred of all people in showbiz to his absolute love and delight of all The Muppets is the best.
That and his glee in interviewing Andy Kaufman, thinking that he would have no time for his bafoonery, but instead being in awe of his talents and interviewing him as if he had never heard of acting or what their process of playing a fictitious character is.
You know what I did this morning? I played the voice of a toy. Some terrible robot toys from Japan that changed from one thing to another. The Japanese have funded a full-length animated cartoon about the doings of these toys, which is all bad outer-space stuff. I play a planet. I menace somebody called Something-or-other. Then I'm destroyed. My plan to destroy Whoever-it-is is thwarted and I tear myself apart on the screen.
One of the things I've learned from the likes of Alec Guinness and Orson Welles insisting on being above shit that they happily took a paycheck for is that just because I don't get it doesn't automatically mean it sucks.
Keep in mind that Welles was terribly ill and in a bad financial situation by the time he was doing VO for Transformers. He was so ill that Transformers was his last acting role.
Orson Welles absolute 180 from pure hatred of all people in showbiz to his absolute love and delight of all The Muppets is the best.
That and his glee in interviewing Andy Kaufman, thinking that he would have no time for his bafoonery, but instead being in awe of his talents and interviewing him as if he had never heard of acting or what their process of playing a fictitious character is.
Kaufman being visibly a little nervous and intimidated, and Welles being genuinely warm and engaging with him. Multiple times it feels like Welles is about to fall back to light snark and fun at Kaufman's expense for a laugh, only for him to immediately turn that energy into earnest praise and interest again.
Keep in mind that Welles was terribly ill and in a bad financial situation by the time he was doing VO for Transformers. He was so ill that Transformers was his last acting role.
I'd do a lot of stuff I found juvenile and trite for a big enough pile of your money. At the end of the day, I'd probably still find it juvenile and trite, but I'd have a newfound appreciation for the money.
I think it is on the better side of the average line for an 80s children's movie, and I say that without a drop of "oh you like movies for children" sarcasm, there is nothing wrong with appreciating entertainment aimed at children as an adult either.
+1
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
80s children's media was all very thinly veiled toy commercials, so that is not saying much
Children's media can be fantastic, and Transformers the Movie largely isn't
+3
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
Like I think saying the Transformers movie is good compared with other children's media is incredibly cynical about children's media
There are salvageable ideas in the 80s re: Children animation but yeah it’s not actually very good. I mean you only need to look at the revived shera cartoon for evidence.
FishmanPut your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain.Registered Userregular
edited May 2022
In TV toyland, yeah, the removal of restrictions on kids television re: advertising directly lead to the He-Man/Transformers/GI Joe era, that comes with a whole draft of baggage. Duck Tales still holds up reasonably well, but the afterschool animation landscape doesn't really get revived until Tiny Toons in 1990 or so.
Film, however has some real gems. In the same year as Transformers: The Movie(tm) you get both Labyrinth and An American Tale.
The surrounding years contain The Goonies, E.T., Who Framed Roger Rabbit, the rest of Bluth animation era, Tron, Neverending Story, amongst others. In Japan you get Nausicaa & Totoro; for older kids you get The Princess Bride, Ghostbusters, Back to the Future. And if you want to be cynical about 'designed to sell toys to kids' marketing you can even make an arguement about Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi.
The 80's were responsible for the Transformers, yes, but the 80's also contained a lot more than just that, is I guess what I'm saying.
As someone who's watched that movie like twice in the past month, the '86 Transformers movie has a lot going for it, but I hesitate to call it good.
Good
-Animation is top notch, it's the best that era of Transformers ever looked
-Soundtrack, while definitely a product of it's time, is very good with some songs having stood the test of time to this day, and the synth instrumentals are utilized incredibly well given this is a toyline about robots released in the 80's.
-The cast builds upon the incredibly strong TV show cast with some major names that the directors manage to get great performances out of. Even Orson Welles, who'd you'd expect to be phoning it in, is utilized surprisingly well.
-For better or for worse, the first 20 or so minutes are incredibly iconic, as a horde of classic characters are mercilessly slaughtered in the name of selling a new batch of toys. It's something people who aren't transformers fans remember to this very day, and has, unfortunately in many cases, had an extremely profound effect on modern Transformers projects.
-Seriously, the throwdown between Prime and Megatron has pretty much never been topped in this franchise. Being set to the Touch helps.
Bad
-While it makes for a fascinating study and provides for some very iconic scenes, killing off so many other characters was a dumb decision. They basically relegated most of the 84-85 cast to cameos and supporting roles to make way for the new toys. Taken on it's own, it's not the worst, though it comes across as really callous, but if you were coming in with any affinity for the cartoon, you're going to be heartbroken. At least Optimus Prime gets a deathbed scene; characters like Prowl, Brawn, Ironhide and Ratchet just get brutally murdered on screen as almost an afterthought, while Wheeljack and Windcharger get killed offscreen!.
-The new characters aren't great. There's Hot Rod, who is written as the reason Prime gets killed and then somehow he winds up being the new leader, Kup is old and likes to talk about how stuff reminds him of other stuff, constantly. There's Blurr, who is played by the micromachines guy and whose gimmick wears out its welcome pretty quickly, and then there's Wheelie, who is kind of an annoying little shit who always talks in rhymes. Springer, Ultra Magnus, and Arcee are fine but don't get a lot to do. Galvatron is just kind of doing Megatron again but with a less iconic voice and Scourge/Cyclonus don't get anything to do. Wreck-Gar is fun, but he's mostly there to basically spout memes like he's the 80's version of the internet.
-The plot is nonsensical. You start with the autobot/decepticon war like the toon, but then they have Unicron get involved and demonstrate the threat he poses... and then the movie takes like a 20+ minute detour so the two separate crews can meet up with new toys characters on planets like Junkion and Quintessa. They just barely use these moments as an opportunity for Hot Rod's character growth/examination, but only just. And the thing that beats Unicron is a mcguffin that never appeared in the entire show, and neither it nor Unicron are ever explained within the context of the movie.
Ultimately, the film is just such a weird artifact of a specific time and a specific line of thinking that lead to some choices you'll probably never see again for a piece of kids media. (Though that's less impressive these days now that we get Transformers shows and films designed for older audiences, where they can get away with some of that crap.) It's a flawed work, but in those flaws it's become seminal.
As someone who's watched that movie like twice in the past month, the '86 Transformers movie has a lot going for it, but I hesitate to call it good.
Good
-Animation is top notch, it's the best that era of Transformers ever looked
-Soundtrack, while definitely a product of it's time, is very good with some songs having stood the test of time to this day, and the synth instrumentals are utilized incredibly well given this is a toyline about robots released in the 80's.
-The cast builds upon the incredibly strong TV show cast with some major names that the directors manage to get great performances out of. Even Orson Welles, who'd you'd expect to be phoning it in, is utilized surprisingly well.
-For better or for worse, the first 20 or so minutes are incredibly iconic, as a horde of classic characters are mercilessly slaughtered in the name of selling a new batch of toys. It's something people who aren't transformers fans remember to this very day, and has, unfortunately in many cases, had an extremely profound effect on modern Transformers projects.
-Seriously, the throwdown between Prime and Megatron has pretty much never been topped in this franchise. Being set to the Touch helps.
Bad
-While it makes for a fascinating study and provides for some very iconic scenes, killing off so many other characters was a dumb decision. They basically relegated most of the 84-85 cast to cameos and supporting roles to make way for the new toys. Taken on it's own, it's not the worst, though it comes across as really callous, but if you were coming in with any affinity for the cartoon, you're going to be heartbroken. At least Optimus Prime gets a deathbed scene; characters like Prowl, Brawn, Ironhide and Ratchet just get brutally murdered on screen as almost an afterthought, while Wheeljack and Windcharger get killed offscreen!.
-The new characters aren't great. There's Hot Rod, who is written as the reason Prime gets killed and then somehow he winds up being the new leader, Kup is old and likes to talk about how stuff reminds him of other stuff, constantly. There's Blurr, who is played by the micromachines guy and whose gimmick wears out its welcome pretty quickly, and then there's Wheelie, who is kind of an annoying little shit who always talks in rhymes. Springer, Ultra Magnus, and Arcee are fine but don't get a lot to do. Galvatron is just kind of doing Megatron again but with a less iconic voice and Scourge/Cyclonus don't get anything to do. Wreck-Gar is fun, but he's mostly there to basically spout memes like he's the 80's version of the internet.
-The plot is nonsensical. You start with the autobot/decepticon war like the toon, but then they have Unicron get involved and demonstrate the threat he poses... and then the movie takes like a 20+ minute detour so the two separate crews can meet up with new toys characters on planets like Junkion and Quintessa. They just barely use these moments as an opportunity for Hot Rod's character growth/examination, but only just. And the thing that beats Unicron is a mcguffin that never appeared in the entire show, and neither it nor Unicron are ever explained within the context of the movie.
Ultimately, the film is just such a weird artifact of a specific time and a specific line of thinking that lead to some choices you'll probably never see again for a piece of kids media. (Though that's less impressive these days now that we get Transformers shows and films designed for older audiences, where they can get away with some of that crap.) It's a flawed work, but in those flaws it's become seminal.
I feel like your good points should include that the movie has dialogue like "A coronation, Starscream? This is bad comedy."
As someone who's watched that movie like twice in the past month, the '86 Transformers movie has a lot going for it, but I hesitate to call it good.
Good
-Animation is top notch, it's the best that era of Transformers ever looked
-Soundtrack, while definitely a product of it's time, is very good with some songs having stood the test of time to this day, and the synth instrumentals are utilized incredibly well given this is a toyline about robots released in the 80's.
-The cast builds upon the incredibly strong TV show cast with some major names that the directors manage to get great performances out of. Even Orson Welles, who'd you'd expect to be phoning it in, is utilized surprisingly well.
-For better or for worse, the first 20 or so minutes are incredibly iconic, as a horde of classic characters are mercilessly slaughtered in the name of selling a new batch of toys. It's something people who aren't transformers fans remember to this very day, and has, unfortunately in many cases, had an extremely profound effect on modern Transformers projects.
-Seriously, the throwdown between Prime and Megatron has pretty much never been topped in this franchise. Being set to the Touch helps.
Bad
-While it makes for a fascinating study and provides for some very iconic scenes, killing off so many other characters was a dumb decision. They basically relegated most of the 84-85 cast to cameos and supporting roles to make way for the new toys. Taken on it's own, it's not the worst, though it comes across as really callous, but if you were coming in with any affinity for the cartoon, you're going to be heartbroken. At least Optimus Prime gets a deathbed scene; characters like Prowl, Brawn, Ironhide and Ratchet just get brutally murdered on screen as almost an afterthought, while Wheeljack and Windcharger get killed offscreen!.
-The new characters aren't great. There's Hot Rod, who is written as the reason Prime gets killed and then somehow he winds up being the new leader, Kup is old and likes to talk about how stuff reminds him of other stuff, constantly. There's Blurr, who is played by the micromachines guy and whose gimmick wears out its welcome pretty quickly, and then there's Wheelie, who is kind of an annoying little shit who always talks in rhymes. Springer, Ultra Magnus, and Arcee are fine but don't get a lot to do. Galvatron is just kind of doing Megatron again but with a less iconic voice and Scourge/Cyclonus don't get anything to do. Wreck-Gar is fun, but he's mostly there to basically spout memes like he's the 80's version of the internet.
-The plot is nonsensical. You start with the autobot/decepticon war like the toon, but then they have Unicron get involved and demonstrate the threat he poses... and then the movie takes like a 20+ minute detour so the two separate crews can meet up with new toys characters on planets like Junkion and Quintessa. They just barely use these moments as an opportunity for Hot Rod's character growth/examination, but only just. And the thing that beats Unicron is a mcguffin that never appeared in the entire show, and neither it nor Unicron are ever explained within the context of the movie.
Ultimately, the film is just such a weird artifact of a specific time and a specific line of thinking that lead to some choices you'll probably never see again for a piece of kids media. (Though that's less impressive these days now that we get Transformers shows and films designed for older audiences, where they can get away with some of that crap.) It's a flawed work, but in those flaws it's become seminal.
Don't forget some of the best snark ever written, not even counting the aforementioned Unicron digs.
Wait, I still function!
Wanna bet?
-Coronation, Starscream? This is bad comedy.
-Megatron, is that you? -Here's a hint.
NOBODY CALLS SOUNDWAVE UNCRASSAMATIC
Such heroic nonsense.
Me Grimlock not nice guy, ME KING.
I have nothing BUT contempt for this court.
You, who are without mercy, now plead for it? I thought you were made of sterner stuff.
Posts
He seemed to be spot-on with Woody Allen though.
Not film critic.
Critic of everything.
That and his glee in interviewing Andy Kaufman, thinking that he would have no time for his bafoonery, but instead being in awe of his talents and interviewing him as if he had never heard of acting or what their process of playing a fictitious character is.
"NOBODY SUMMONS MEGATRON."
"Then it pleases me to be the first."
"I BELONG TO NOBODY."
"Perhaps I misjudged you. Proceed to oblivion."
"I ACCEPT!"
"Excellent."
"What's in it for me?"
"Your bargaining position is highly dubious. I shall give you a new body, and new troops."
"And?"
"AND NOTHING."
I'll always remember the end of his life for his love of The Muppets
Tumblr | Twitter PSN: misterdapper Av by Satellite_09
I know how I'd like to go out.
I already found the Muppets, so I guess I'm ready to die.
God I love this interview so much.
Kaufman being visibly a little nervous and intimidated, and Welles being genuinely warm and engaging with him. Multiple times it feels like Welles is about to fall back to light snark and fun at Kaufman's expense for a laugh, only for him to immediately turn that energy into earnest praise and interest again.
It's just so lovely.
Steam ID - VeldrinD | SS Post | Wishlist
Ain't nothing wrong with working for a paycheck
Tumblr | Twitter PSN: misterdapper Av by Satellite_09
It's better writing than the television series, but that's a low bar.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Children's media can be fantastic, and Transformers the Movie largely isn't
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Film, however has some real gems. In the same year as Transformers: The Movie(tm) you get both Labyrinth and An American Tale.
The surrounding years contain The Goonies, E.T., Who Framed Roger Rabbit, the rest of Bluth animation era, Tron, Neverending Story, amongst others. In Japan you get Nausicaa & Totoro; for older kids you get The Princess Bride, Ghostbusters, Back to the Future. And if you want to be cynical about 'designed to sell toys to kids' marketing you can even make an arguement about Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi.
The 80's were responsible for the Transformers, yes, but the 80's also contained a lot more than just that, is I guess what I'm saying.
Good
-Animation is top notch, it's the best that era of Transformers ever looked
-Soundtrack, while definitely a product of it's time, is very good with some songs having stood the test of time to this day, and the synth instrumentals are utilized incredibly well given this is a toyline about robots released in the 80's.
-The cast builds upon the incredibly strong TV show cast with some major names that the directors manage to get great performances out of. Even Orson Welles, who'd you'd expect to be phoning it in, is utilized surprisingly well.
-For better or for worse, the first 20 or so minutes are incredibly iconic, as a horde of classic characters are mercilessly slaughtered in the name of selling a new batch of toys. It's something people who aren't transformers fans remember to this very day, and has, unfortunately in many cases, had an extremely profound effect on modern Transformers projects.
-Seriously, the throwdown between Prime and Megatron has pretty much never been topped in this franchise. Being set to the Touch helps.
Bad
-While it makes for a fascinating study and provides for some very iconic scenes, killing off so many other characters was a dumb decision. They basically relegated most of the 84-85 cast to cameos and supporting roles to make way for the new toys. Taken on it's own, it's not the worst, though it comes across as really callous, but if you were coming in with any affinity for the cartoon, you're going to be heartbroken. At least Optimus Prime gets a deathbed scene; characters like Prowl, Brawn, Ironhide and Ratchet just get brutally murdered on screen as almost an afterthought, while Wheeljack and Windcharger get killed offscreen!.
-The new characters aren't great. There's Hot Rod, who is written as the reason Prime gets killed and then somehow he winds up being the new leader, Kup is old and likes to talk about how stuff reminds him of other stuff, constantly. There's Blurr, who is played by the micromachines guy and whose gimmick wears out its welcome pretty quickly, and then there's Wheelie, who is kind of an annoying little shit who always talks in rhymes. Springer, Ultra Magnus, and Arcee are fine but don't get a lot to do. Galvatron is just kind of doing Megatron again but with a less iconic voice and Scourge/Cyclonus don't get anything to do. Wreck-Gar is fun, but he's mostly there to basically spout memes like he's the 80's version of the internet.
-The plot is nonsensical. You start with the autobot/decepticon war like the toon, but then they have Unicron get involved and demonstrate the threat he poses... and then the movie takes like a 20+ minute detour so the two separate crews can meet up with new toys characters on planets like Junkion and Quintessa. They just barely use these moments as an opportunity for Hot Rod's character growth/examination, but only just. And the thing that beats Unicron is a mcguffin that never appeared in the entire show, and neither it nor Unicron are ever explained within the context of the movie.
Ultimately, the film is just such a weird artifact of a specific time and a specific line of thinking that lead to some choices you'll probably never see again for a piece of kids media. (Though that's less impressive these days now that we get Transformers shows and films designed for older audiences, where they can get away with some of that crap.) It's a flawed work, but in those flaws it's become seminal.
I feel like your good points should include that the movie has dialogue like "A coronation, Starscream? This is bad comedy."
Don't forget some of the best snark ever written, not even counting the aforementioned Unicron digs.
Wait, I still function!
Wanna bet?
-Coronation, Starscream? This is bad comedy.
-Megatron, is that you?
-Here's a hint.
NOBODY CALLS SOUNDWAVE UNCRASSAMATIC
Such heroic nonsense.
Me Grimlock not nice guy, ME KING.
I have nothing BUT contempt for this court.
You, who are without mercy, now plead for it? I thought you were made of sterner stuff.
ELIMINATE EVEN THE TOUGHEST STAINS