I also use gshade, but I think gshade is literally just reshade with an ffxiv-specific customization to prevent the shaders from affecting UI elements.
Oh I guess it works for some other games too but the UI ignoring feature in ffxiv is part of what differentiates it
exaflares is a small AOE circle, often several in a line or lines, with an arrow in them pointing a direction, and then explosions happen in sequence starting with the circles and then traveling in the direction of the arrow off the stage
I think O10 is the first fight they're used in? maybe?
The one's in Prae technically function the same as exaflares, but I'd argue that they aren't true exaflares since they show where each trail is going to hit ahead of time.
With mods seemingly becoming a lot more prevalent/popular in Endwalker it's nice to see them come out and reiterate their position on 3rd party tools, but also to say "hey, you guys have highlighted some areas where our default UI is lacking and we should improve." That seems kind of rare in game dev these days?
It's a nice sentiment, but I'll believe that said UI improvements are coming when I see patch notes with them included and not a moment before.
Like, they are historically very, very slow when it comes to implementing these improvements, and in the meantime their enforcement for using mods seems to be "we don't care at all, unless JP message board trolls mass report a twitch streamer in which case here's a 10 day ban"
I'm curious, what do people think the UI lacks that 3p tools are providing? I've never found it particularly lacking, but I'm not doing high-end content.
I'm curious, what do people think the UI lacks that 3p tools are providing? I've never found it particularly lacking, but I'm not doing high-end content.
I could honestly fill a book, but just from the plugins that I'm aware of after thinking about 30 seconds:
-Buff/Debuff timers on party frames.
-Some way to between physical/magical damage on the floating combat text
-Better feedback in Alliance raids (such as letting healers know which dead alliance members already have a raise pending)
-Death recap (popup window like in WoW that shows what ability name/events killed you)
-Ability to check framerate/ping in-game
-Additional slots for waymarker presets
-Include stats added by materia melds in item tooltips
-Expand the /teleport command to allow you to macro specific locations.
It's a bunch of small things and minor annoyances that add up, along with a few major annoyances that should have been implemented ages ago. Basically the base UI is perfectly functionable, but there are a ton of small things that you just kinda shrug and learn to deal with.
Damage types is by far the biggest one imo; I should not have to go into FFLogs in order to figure out if an attack is physical or magical. Buff/debuff timers on the party list is nice to have, makes tracking burst timings and flexing for debuff dance mechanics way less annoying in a PUG setting. HP% on enmity list targets is useful, especially if they keep adding in Hand of Pain mechs (keep these two bosses within X% or you wipe). Larger numbers for CD timers on skill icons is also great; the more noticeable timer helps a lot when learning a new job and the timing of when things "should" be up isn't second nature yet.
Those 4 are what I most want to see, though I'm sure there's others I could think of if I put my mind to it.
Edit: and if we expand beyond just basic UI stuff, then oh god there's a ton. Starting with more waymark presets; 5 is not nearly enough when you have that many savage floors already, plus whatever EX trials and old content you might want to do.
Honestly their entire UI being built around executing commands/subcommands is a travesty. It's why you have to wade through half a dozen nested menus to send out a retainer, or why you can't join a party while crafting.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
I'm curious, what do people think the UI lacks that 3p tools are providing? I've never found it particularly lacking, but I'm not doing high-end content.
I could honestly fill a book, but just from the plugins that I'm aware of after thinking about 30 seconds:
-Buff/Debuff timers on party frames.
-Some way to between physical/magical damage on the floating combat text
-Better feedback in Alliance raids (such as letting healers know which dead alliance members already have a raise pending)
-Death recap (popup window like in WoW that shows what ability name/events killed you)
-Ability to check framerate/ping in-game
-Additional slots for waymarker presets
-Include stats added by materia melds in item tooltips
-Expand the /teleport command to allow you to macro specific locations.
I'm curious, what do people think the UI lacks that 3p tools are providing? I've never found it particularly lacking, but I'm not doing high-end content.
I could honestly fill a book, but just from the plugins that I'm aware of after thinking about 30 seconds:
-Buff/Debuff timers on party frames.
-Some way to between physical/magical damage on the floating combat text
-Better feedback in Alliance raids (such as letting healers know which dead alliance members already have a raise pending)
-Death recap (popup window like in WoW that shows what ability name/events killed you)
-Ability to check framerate/ping in-game
-Additional slots for waymarker presets
-Include stats added by materia melds in item tooltips
-Expand the /teleport command to allow you to macro specific locations.
Mouseover casting for healers.
Technically this already exists!
Functionally, everything involving combat macros in FF14 perform terribly, so as-is, isn't very useful.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
I'm curious, what do people think the UI lacks that 3p tools are providing? I've never found it particularly lacking, but I'm not doing high-end content.
I could honestly fill a book, but just from the plugins that I'm aware of after thinking about 30 seconds:
-Buff/Debuff timers on party frames.
-Some way to between physical/magical damage on the floating combat text
-Better feedback in Alliance raids (such as letting healers know which dead alliance members already have a raise pending)
-Death recap (popup window like in WoW that shows what ability name/events killed you)
-Ability to check framerate/ping in-game
-Additional slots for waymarker presets
-Include stats added by materia melds in item tooltips
-Expand the /teleport command to allow you to macro specific locations.
Mouseover casting for healers.
Technically this already exists!
Functionally, everything involving combat macros in FF14 perform terribly, so as-is, isn't very useful.
Right, and they have good reasons for that so I understand why they don't want to just "fix" macros, but that means they should just implement it as part of the base UI. Even WoW did that! It only took them 18 years!
My favorite "ff14 macros are stupid jank" fact is that macroing sprint, and only sprint, is actually a performance increase.
Because macros attempt to execute 1 line per frame (baring /wait commands), and because Sprint (unlike every other ability in the game for some reason) doesn't queue at all, a macro that is just 16 lines of "/ac sprint" is more reliable than actually pressing the sprint key.
I used to think the "danger bongos" that sometimes go off when doing that final encounter of one of the Crystal Towers raids was someone triggering a macro, but now I am beginning to wonder if it is just someone running a plug in.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
Well, it might be a plug-in triggering the macro but a plug-in can't cause someone else's game to play sounds.
if plugins could do that I'd run that plugin nonstop until I was crucified
raiders do use something that can send chat messages, though their might be multiple layers to it. You can see clearly automated messages showing up in a few of the ult clear vids
I wonder if they'll actually spend some time to make FFXIV work properly on macOS without having to run third-party tools. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Python 2.7 was only end-of-life'd in 2020, that's basically no time at all to fix it.
edit: some extra fun:
We did not want to hurt the people using Python 2. So, in 2008, we announced that we would sunset Python 2 in 2015, and asked people to upgrade before then. Some did, but many did not. So, in 2014, we extended that sunset till 2020.
Echo on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I don't think this is actually a change in their stance on addons. They've always been "don't ask, don't tell", and you got banned if you were blatantly using them. The streamers just got lax - Max streamed with plugins for basically his ENTIRE time playing, was hugely visible, and I guess the streamers got overconfident.
However, that said, if this does represent a change in their attitude, and those who aren't streaming plugin use still face getting banned, then I'll just quit. Base FFXIV has too many daily annoyances that plugins solve for me to be interested without it.
Like, this is the kind of stuff that's happening and the only reason people are getting banned, and SE enabling it is actual bullshit.
OK but don't stream with visible addons?
I hate this argument because SE hasn't given a single fuck about people streaming with addons for literally 7+ years.
Like seriously, nothing. People can say "using addons is fine just don't show it, SE doesn't care unless you flaunt it!" all they want, but, historically speaking, that hasn't been true at all! Outside of the occasional crackdown on NPC nude mods on twitter (which, lmao) they didn't care either way, until exactly two days ago after JP message board trolls started making a bunch of noise.
It's this inconsistency and mushy communication with their enforcement policy that's annoying. Like they always say, addons are against the ToS, 100%. Ok, that's easy enough to understand. But then, they also always make sure to mention that "we can't/won't figure out what you are doing on your own private PC, that's your business," and they demonstrably never take action against obvious add on use for literal years. So yeah, people read between the lines and go "SE doesn't give a fuck one way or the other, as long as you aren't using it to harass people in game."
But I guess now it's actually "SE doesn't give a fuck one way or the other, as long as you aren't using it to harass people in game, unless an amorphous mob of angry internet people decides to mass report you for shits and giggles"
And hey, if it turns out this is a brand new, strictly enforced policy change, and they are really, actually going to crack down on every sort of publicly displayed 3rd party add on, then sure, I guess that's the new status quo. I personally think that would be a fucking stupid change, but at least it would be better than just outsourcing their GM department to 4chan/5ch.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
Are they actually cracking down on people streaming with Material UI and DelvUI, or is this just a reaction to the Cactbot callouts in the world-first DSR videos?
(point of order, but the callouts in the world first DSR vid aren't from cactbot, those are just basic ass ACT triggers)
There have been 2 streamers get thrown into GM jail and issued 10 day suspensions on stream mid Dragonsong Ult prog. The first of those, Hiroro, was a JP streamer who, in the hours before he got hit with the ban, was the subject of a 5ch thread where a bunch of people went "let's mass report him for using UI mods to see if SE is actually gonna do anything about it"
The second was BazelGoose, who got hit with a the same ban, and had a similar thread on 5ch celebrating it.
The RDM PoV for the world first clear was also copyright claimed, and the RDM in question also caught a 10 day ban from people reporting his VOD.
The entire thing is incredibly stupid and tiresome, and imo hugely fucked up on SE's part.
(point of order, but the callouts in the world first DSR vid aren't from cactbot, those are just basic ass ACT triggers)
There have been 2 streamers get thrown into GM jail and issued 10 day suspensions on stream mid Dragonsong Ult prog. The first of those, Hiroro, was a JP streamer who, in the hours before he got hit with the ban, was the subject of a 5ch thread where a bunch of people went "let's mass report him for using UI mods to see if SE is actually gonna do anything about it"
The second was BazelGoose, who got hit with a the same ban, and had a similar thread on 5ch celebrating it.
The RDM PoV for the world first clear was also copyright claimed, and the RDM in question also caught a 10 day ban from people reporting his VOD.
The entire thing is incredibly stupid and tiresome, and imo hugely fucked up on SE's part.
Were all these people visibly using mods in their streams?
And if you're going to tell me that "oh, well that's the risk they took!" and ignore the larger point of SE's enforcement policy being decided entirely via bad faith mass reports, then I guess I don't really see the point of this conversation.
And if you're going to tell me that "oh, well that's the risk they took!" and ignore the larger point of SE's enforcement policy being decided entirely via bad faith mass reports, then I guess I don't really see the point of this conversation.
If they were using mods visibly on stream then those were not what I would call bad faith mass reports. They were being reported for something that is an actual TOS violation. A bad faith mass report is the kind of thing that was happening in New World where companies were mass reporting opposing players for things they weren't actually doing. If someone is reported to SE for something and SE investigates and determines that what they were reported for are in fact violations of the TOS then they should get banned. It's not like these are long term or permanent bans either.
This is exactly the expectation that they set. They don't want be in the situation of having to closely examine every single report of mod use to determine if it's banable or not and fall into the inevitable pit trap where two different support people ruled differently on the same/similar mod and get the community into a kerfuffle about it. They also don't want to be getting into the habit of ignoring reports regardless of the source (imagine if they ignored reports for harassment because it was mass reported). They drew a line in the sand and they put their foot down and somehow people are surprised when they get their wrist slapped for crossing it.
imagining a world where prog is done without addons and the reaction of the viewers when there's still no clear today
I'm imagining a world where console players are second class citizens for hard mode content because they can't run addons.
If the current hard mode content can't be cleared without addons it needs to be redesigned and people not being able to clear it would be a major indicator to SE that it needs to be adjusted. If the addons people are using aren't giving them a leg up then not having them won't be a major setback.
LD50 on
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
they're very clearly bad faith mass reports. whether or not they were actually violating TOS doesn't change that a bunch of fucking channers just went "let's see if we can get this guy banned."
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Oh I guess it works for some other games too but the UI ignoring feature in ffxiv is part of what differentiates it
Which ones are the exaflares?
I think O10 is the first fight they're used in? maybe?
The other thing about exaflares is that someone at SE fucking loves exaflares
With mods seemingly becoming a lot more prevalent/popular in Endwalker it's nice to see them come out and reiterate their position on 3rd party tools, but also to say "hey, you guys have highlighted some areas where our default UI is lacking and we should improve." That seems kind of rare in game dev these days?
Like, they are historically very, very slow when it comes to implementing these improvements, and in the meantime their enforcement for using mods seems to be "we don't care at all, unless JP message board trolls mass report a twitch streamer in which case here's a 10 day ban"
I could honestly fill a book, but just from the plugins that I'm aware of after thinking about 30 seconds:
-Buff/Debuff timers on party frames.
-Some way to between physical/magical damage on the floating combat text
-Better feedback in Alliance raids (such as letting healers know which dead alliance members already have a raise pending)
-Death recap (popup window like in WoW that shows what ability name/events killed you)
-Ability to check framerate/ping in-game
-Additional slots for waymarker presets
-Include stats added by materia melds in item tooltips
-Expand the /teleport command to allow you to macro specific locations.
Damage types is by far the biggest one imo; I should not have to go into FFLogs in order to figure out if an attack is physical or magical. Buff/debuff timers on the party list is nice to have, makes tracking burst timings and flexing for debuff dance mechanics way less annoying in a PUG setting. HP% on enmity list targets is useful, especially if they keep adding in Hand of Pain mechs (keep these two bosses within X% or you wipe). Larger numbers for CD timers on skill icons is also great; the more noticeable timer helps a lot when learning a new job and the timing of when things "should" be up isn't second nature yet.
Those 4 are what I most want to see, though I'm sure there's others I could think of if I put my mind to it.
Edit: and if we expand beyond just basic UI stuff, then oh god there's a ton. Starting with more waymark presets; 5 is not nearly enough when you have that many savage floors already, plus whatever EX trials and old content you might want to do.
Mouseover casting for healers.
Technically this already exists!
Functionally, everything involving combat macros in FF14 perform terribly, so as-is, isn't very useful.
Right, and they have good reasons for that so I understand why they don't want to just "fix" macros, but that means they should just implement it as part of the base UI. Even WoW did that! It only took them 18 years!
Because macros attempt to execute 1 line per frame (baring /wait commands), and because Sprint (unlike every other ability in the game for some reason) doesn't queue at all, a macro that is just 16 lines of "/ac sprint" is more reliable than actually pressing the sprint key.
...for crafting.
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raiders do use something that can send chat messages, though their might be multiple layers to it. You can see clearly automated messages showing up in a few of the ult clear vids
Python 2.7 was only end-of-life'd in 2020, that's basically no time at all to fix it.
edit: some extra fun:
However, that said, if this does represent a change in their attitude, and those who aren't streaming plugin use still face getting banned, then I'll just quit. Base FFXIV has too many daily annoyances that plugins solve for me to be interested without it.
Which had always been the problem with SE's enforcement; it's almost exclusively reactionary and inconsistent
Edit:
Like, this is the kind of stuff that's happening and the only reason people are getting banned, and SE enabling it is actual bullshit.
OK but don't stream with visible addons?
I hate this argument because SE hasn't given a single fuck about people streaming with addons for literally 7+ years.
Like seriously, nothing. People can say "using addons is fine just don't show it, SE doesn't care unless you flaunt it!" all they want, but, historically speaking, that hasn't been true at all! Outside of the occasional crackdown on NPC nude mods on twitter (which, lmao) they didn't care either way, until exactly two days ago after JP message board trolls started making a bunch of noise.
It's this inconsistency and mushy communication with their enforcement policy that's annoying. Like they always say, addons are against the ToS, 100%. Ok, that's easy enough to understand. But then, they also always make sure to mention that "we can't/won't figure out what you are doing on your own private PC, that's your business," and they demonstrably never take action against obvious add on use for literal years. So yeah, people read between the lines and go "SE doesn't give a fuck one way or the other, as long as you aren't using it to harass people in game."
But I guess now it's actually "SE doesn't give a fuck one way or the other, as long as you aren't using it to harass people in game, unless an amorphous mob of angry internet people decides to mass report you for shits and giggles"
And hey, if it turns out this is a brand new, strictly enforced policy change, and they are really, actually going to crack down on every sort of publicly displayed 3rd party add on, then sure, I guess that's the new status quo. I personally think that would be a fucking stupid change, but at least it would be better than just outsourcing their GM department to 4chan/5ch.
There have been 2 streamers get thrown into GM jail and issued 10 day suspensions on stream mid Dragonsong Ult prog. The first of those, Hiroro, was a JP streamer who, in the hours before he got hit with the ban, was the subject of a 5ch thread where a bunch of people went "let's mass report him for using UI mods to see if SE is actually gonna do anything about it"
The second was BazelGoose, who got hit with a the same ban, and had a similar thread on 5ch celebrating it.
The RDM PoV for the world first clear was also copyright claimed, and the RDM in question also caught a 10 day ban from people reporting his VOD.
The entire thing is incredibly stupid and tiresome, and imo hugely fucked up on SE's part.
Were all these people visibly using mods in their streams?
And if you're going to tell me that "oh, well that's the risk they took!" and ignore the larger point of SE's enforcement policy being decided entirely via bad faith mass reports, then I guess I don't really see the point of this conversation.
If they were using mods visibly on stream then those were not what I would call bad faith mass reports. They were being reported for something that is an actual TOS violation. A bad faith mass report is the kind of thing that was happening in New World where companies were mass reporting opposing players for things they weren't actually doing. If someone is reported to SE for something and SE investigates and determines that what they were reported for are in fact violations of the TOS then they should get banned. It's not like these are long term or permanent bans either.
This is exactly the expectation that they set. They don't want be in the situation of having to closely examine every single report of mod use to determine if it's banable or not and fall into the inevitable pit trap where two different support people ruled differently on the same/similar mod and get the community into a kerfuffle about it. They also don't want to be getting into the habit of ignoring reports regardless of the source (imagine if they ignored reports for harassment because it was mass reported). They drew a line in the sand and they put their foot down and somehow people are surprised when they get their wrist slapped for crossing it.
I'm imagining a world where console players are second class citizens for hard mode content because they can't run addons.
If the current hard mode content can't be cleared without addons it needs to be redesigned and people not being able to clear it would be a major indicator to SE that it needs to be adjusted. If the addons people are using aren't giving them a leg up then not having them won't be a major setback.