Athena's been coughing herself sick just at night lately and maybe it's just because she's laying down but then she sleeps on the couch with no coughing at all, so what if maybe somehow her room is making her sick and every time she coughs in her bedroom I'm simultaneously worried that she's going to get into a coughing fit that makes her vomit and that her being in her room is making it worse.
She already has a daily inhaler for asthma, but it always seems worst at night.
In my personal experience, asthma and most breathing problems are always worse at night, mostly due to lying down (as you suspect) and being still. You could certainly look at adding or removing things from her room if you like… vaporizers do seem to help add some moisture into the room, which can help breathing overnight.
You may also find that the couch is better for her because of the position she lies in… does she sleep the same way in both rooms?
Athena's been coughing herself sick just at night lately and maybe it's just because she's laying down but then she sleeps on the couch with no coughing at all, so what if maybe somehow her room is making her sick and every time she coughs in her bedroom I'm simultaneously worried that she's going to get into a coughing fit that makes her vomit and that her being in her room is making it worse.
She already has a daily inhaler for asthma, but it always seems worst at night.
In my personal experience, asthma and most breathing problems are always worse at night, mostly due to lying down (as you suspect) and being still. You could certainly look at adding or removing things from her room if you like… vaporizers do seem to help add some moisture into the room, which can help breathing overnight.
You may also find that the couch is better for her because of the position she lies in… does she sleep the same way in both rooms?
We don't have the monitor in her room anymore, but she side-sleeps on the couch, and when she's falling asleep in bed it's usually side as well, but if she's anything like me she spends most of the night twirling, twirling towards freedom
Our younger kid (he's 12) got home from school just now (fridays are half days here) and made himself lunch. What did he make himself for lunch? Did he do what I did and reheat some leftovers? No. Instead, he made a sandwich of:
* garlic bread (made from french bread+garlic+butter) with
* pesto
* mayo
* bacon
* fried onions (his knife skills could do with some work, but I don't feel like I need to worry about him losing a finger, either)
* parmesan
* and cheddar
His willingness to spend time cooking, honestly, puts me to shame. Now we just need to get him to wash up after himself, because there is a frying pan, a baking sheet, a cutting board, and various small bowls that got dirtied along the way and he tends to just sort of leave them all sitting around until magically (ie his parents) they get cleaned.
(edit: this is a fascinating glimpse into nature -vs- nurture, because despite growing up in the same household, his older brother's cooking goes as far as cooking a hotdog, sometimes if he's feeling fancy a hot dog in a bun, microwaving pizza pockets; he will cook bacon but then it's just "a plate of bacon" as a snack, and worryingly almost-rare bacon to the point where I am amazed he's escaped food poisoning this far)
(edit 2: okay, I was unfair before; there was a garlic press left in the sink and the baking sheet needed cleaning, but he washed everything else up himself)
This morning on the way to daycare, my daughter said she wanted to build an airplane with me so we could fly together to the toy store to get her baby bear some toys. I just rolled with it and did some "yes and then whats" about how we were going to build and decorate it. So after dinner we built IMO a pretty amazing airplane, complete with googly eye buttons (her idea). Then my wife had the brilliant idea of throwing up a first person video on the TV so she could fly her plane. Here is the result:
+30
#pipeCocky Stride, Musky odoursPope of Chili TownRegistered Userregular
In good news, we're about to start his behavioral therapies and we've been trying to hire someone to come and work with him a few times a week. This role is called a Behavioral Interventionist.
(...)
We found the absolute perfect person. She's coming for a tester session on Friday where she and Bean will just hang out and see if they vibe. We're gonna pay her so well and treat her so right if it works out.
Update on this if anyone is interested!
Our candidate came for her test session and did really well, Bean enjoyed playing with her, and when he got confused and anxious she was able to adapt and adjust and they were back to being cool very quickly. A couple days later we made a (very generous) offer and sent her a contract and she accepted!
So they started the program this week! The first couple weeks are called "pairing", shorter sessions with no structure where they just play and get to know eachother. Their first session was super and when she left she asked Bean for a hug and he gave her a little drive-by squeeze ❤️
She also offered to do some private babysitting for a reduced rate in case we wanna have a date night which we've never had before. We're very lucky and excited!
In good news, we're about to start his behavioral therapies and we've been trying to hire someone to come and work with him a few times a week. This role is called a Behavioral Interventionist.
(...)
We found the absolute perfect person. She's coming for a tester session on Friday where she and Bean will just hang out and see if they vibe. We're gonna pay her so well and treat her so right if it works out.
Update on this if anyone is interested!
Our candidate came for her test session and did really well, Bean enjoyed playing with her, and when he got confused and anxious she was able to adapt and adjust and they were back to being cool very quickly. A couple days later we made a (very generous) offer and sent her a contract and she accepted!
So they started the program this week! The first couple weeks are called "pairing", shorter sessions with no structure where they just play and get to know eachother. Their first session was super and when she left she asked Bean for a hug and he gave her a little drive-by squeeze ❤️
She also offered to do some private babysitting for a reduced rate in case we wanna have a date night which we've never had before. We're very lucky and excited!
oh my gosh, honey. I am so happy for you all! This sounds absolutely amazing. I hope it all keeps working out well.
Our younger kid (he's 12) got home from school just now (fridays are half days here) and made himself lunch. What did he make himself for lunch? Did he do what I did and reheat some leftovers? No. Instead, he made a sandwich of:
* garlic bread (made from french bread+garlic+butter) with
* pesto
* mayo
* bacon
* fried onions (his knife skills could do with some work, but I don't feel like I need to worry about him losing a finger, either)
* parmesan
* and cheddar
His willingness to spend time cooking, honestly, puts me to shame. Now we just need to get him to wash up after himself, because there is a frying pan, a baking sheet, a cutting board, and various small bowls that got dirtied along the way and he tends to just sort of leave them all sitting around until magically (ie his parents) they get cleaned.
(edit: this is a fascinating glimpse into nature -vs- nurture, because despite growing up in the same household, his older brother's cooking goes as far as cooking a hotdog, sometimes if he's feeling fancy a hot dog in a bun, microwaving pizza pockets; he will cook bacon but then it's just "a plate of bacon" as a snack, and worryingly almost-rare bacon to the point where I am amazed he's escaped food poisoning this far)
(edit 2: okay, I was unfair before; there was a garlic press left in the sink and the baking sheet needed cleaning, but he washed everything else up himself)
Does your kid deliver?
+5
FishmanPut your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain.Registered Userregular
Tried to go out for brunch for Mother's Day.
Youngest throws an hour-long tantrum over getting dressed.
Arrive late. No available tables at place my wife wanted to eat.
Go around corner to nice cafe with oversized cake display. Order food.
Entertain kids for 30 minutes while waiting for food.
Oldest suddenly needs to use toilet. Off we go.
Kid disappears inside cubicle. Doesn't come out. Apparently this is a long bathroom trip.
More waiting.
Okay, done. Return to find food has arrived!
In fact, it arrived so long ago that it has now gone cold.
Get kids through meal. Spend considerable effort stopping youngest from throwing himself at other tables while waiting for eldest to finish meal.
Kid go to wash hands now they're finished. See gelato display and want ice cream, despite both of them being full and neither of them finishing lunch not 5 minutes ago.
Kids cranky, wife disappointed, parking about to expire, haul family back to car and drive home.
It's a real shame that mother's day requires having kids, because damn if they don't just make it difficult to celebrate. Or maybe that's why there's a mother's day.
FishmanPut your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain.Registered Userregular
edited May 2022
As an attempt to make up something else nice on this day, I started erecting some shelves in the bathroom that she really wanted and was excited about.
I usually don't do home improvement tasks the same weekend as football, as my body is usually a wreck for more than a day after a game these days. I put a lot into my football, and it takes a toll on my body now I'm the wrong side of 40. But so that she has a nice Mother's Day, I thought I'd try and make at least a little treat in the bathroom, then she can enjoy a nice spa bath.
Unfortunately this was a mistake, as my body was not up to the task, and I have now thrown my back out.
This has resulted in Jen now having to do more than usual this Mother's Day and grab some takeaways for dinner (she doesn't cook).
(for those worried readers: Mother's Day is today in The Netherlands. Consult Wikipedia for your local day of celebrations)
Kid made 3 handicraft gifts, none of them useful, all of them taking a lot of effort, so that's cute. We also got her some Lego. We got her breakfast on bed, but besides this we're pretty much treating it as a Hallmark holiday.
0
FishmanPut your goddamned hand in the goddamned Box of Pain.Registered Userregular
I'd send my mother a happy day message, but apparently someone tried to scam my mother by posing as me on Whatsapp.
She immediately knew it wasn't me as:
1) I initiated the contact,
2) Replied more than twice, and
3) I asked for help.
My Mother's view of me as a son is definitely coloured by the fact that the last time I asked for her help in her memory was around 1993, when I asked her to show me how the washing machine worked so I could do my own damned laundry and not just get all my clothes mixed in with everyone else in the household.
Anyway, I figure that scam syndicate has me covered this year, so that's just one less message I need to send this year.
We're in Denver for a few days, the first real trip since 2019 when my son was 14 months, and that was a Disney cruise. He's SUCH a pill, and it seems like each age for the last 2 months is the worst age he's been. Now it's lots of hissy throwing, and saying that we don't like him, that he's mean, and boy this role playing sucks.
Luckily a trip is still decent, with all the treats and TV he's getting, but it's one of the least good ones I've ever taken with my wife, and we only have one, relatively ok-behaved kid!
So, Mother’s Day has been a bit crappy here, mostly because I’ve been underwater myself - we’re moving house on Friday, and I’ve been wrangling permits from the City to let us do the work we need to do to move in, like build a room for our toddler. But yeah, I dropped the ball a bit. But managed to provide some small gifts, and a walk in the sun to McDonalds to get a McFlurry. Hopefully that was enough until we’re in the new place and can do things.
But I mostly wanted to talk about yesterday. It was nice yesterday. We went to the park! So the Mrs is taking a break, and I’m following the boy around as he climbs on stuff, falls over, and nearly gets wiped out by bigger kids running by.
And this woman I’ve never seen before in my life says “Oh, he looks a lot like you!”
That is not an unusual interaction in the park full of kids.
So I say, thanks but I actually don’t think that’s true - he looks like his mum.
And she says to me “Wait, you’re the dad aren’t you? You’d better be.”
I have no idea how to respond to that, but it did not come with good feelings. Parenting!
That's the worst. Luckily most of the kids in this area are pretty good and play well together (we live right next to the school that has an awesome playground). However, when we go on vacation, there's always at least 2-3 shitty kids not being supervised as well as terrible parents.
Our elementary school just held a glow party, and it was fully insane but a ton of fun for the kids. Cutest moment of the night was definitely my son and his girlfriend (no idea where he gets his game, he's already on girlfriend #2 and he's only in 2nd grade) played some of the side games with each other calmly. He definitely even let her win one of them.
I'm going to spoiler this for length, possibly edit it out in a bit, but I am just so.. annoyed? angry? at my son's school. And I'm going to raaammbbllleee.
So, my son is smart. I'll get that out of the way. I really hesitated to say this for a while, because I didn't want to be one of those people who tried to hold their kid up as some sort of misunderstood genius or pretend like he can do no wrong. Yes, IQ tests are problematic and don't give a full picture, but two separate ones done by two separate places gave similar pictures of a kid who is very intelligent.
But he has a lot of executive dysfunction. He is either autistic, has adhd, or some other flavor of neurodiversity that causes him to have a lot of problems at school. He is in Kindergarten. And K, in the past, was about having fun and learning to be with other kids. Current K is a lot different from when I was a kid- there is a lot more expected academics-wide. He is very good at math. Can mostly read when he wants to and is feeling comfortable. So, he can do the academics, but they keep pushing it on him. Because they want him to reach his potential.
But he needs a lot of coaching. A lot of explaining beforehand, getting buy-in, and a lot of backing-up if he feels pushed too far. And you need to be able to read him. In a class with 20 other kids, he can't really get that close attention. And so he reacts poorly. Sometimes he just tries to be by himself, and refuses to do the work. But if he feels cornered, he keeps people away by throwing stuff or messing up the classroom library or hallway by pulling things down into a big messy pile.
And I think they are using his intelligence to assign a sort of agency he just does not have.
Like, just the other day the sun outside at recess really bothered him and caused a meltdown. They say "he didn't tell us the sun was bothering him", yet he kept trying to get out of the sun, go to another area away from the sun, and the sun has bothered him to the point of meltdown in the past. I've spoken to him, and he has a hat in his backpack to help. But they don't look for the hat on sunny days, don't let him get out of the sun, and get upset he doesn't say the words "the sun is bothering me dear sirs and madams may I please have some time out of the sun?"
He has a 1:1 paraprofessional who can sit with him in an area out of the sun, or go with him somewhere else. So it's not just on the teacher.
Or, another example. The tables are set up in a way where he either needs to squeeze past another person to get to his seat, or possibly switch seats so that the other person would have to squeeze past him to get to their seat. He has very poor proprioception (body awareness), so feels constant discomfort when people are "in his space." He will get upset when other people walk near him, and it's been a thing since the beginning of the year. And yet, the teacher wants him to make a decision about which spot to sit in, and be fine with whatever he chooses and not get upset about squeezing past somebody or having somebody squeeze past him because he chose the seat to sit in.. He's 6. He can rationally chose a seat. But he cannot rationally decide that he no longer has sensory processing issues, and cannot chose to not feel discomfort. I mentioned to the teacher that he can pick a seat, but he will continue to have problems if the seats continue to be set up the way they are. I get that the classroom may need to be set up the way it is for space reasons, and kids need to be able to see the board (my son also has a hard time when he cannot see the board or screen, and gets upset then, too).
Like, I get that he is exhausting. He is stubborn. That is why he gets OT. He gets counseling. He's in the classroom with one gen ed and one special education teacher. He has a 1:1 paraprofessional.
He is also sweet and great when you listen to him and he has a lot of friends. The other kids are always saying hi and talking with him outside of class. He had to leave his after-school program due to lack of supports, and some of the other kids in his after-school, but not classroom, were genuinely sad to see him go. He plays with other kids really nicely, and is outgoing and kind. He wants to do well and likes learning in school.
But he is non-Newtonian, and if you push him too hard he will push right back even harder. If you tell him what to do in no uncertain terms, he will take that as a challenge. He needs a more gentle approach, with more buy-in and more, frankly, work, to get him to do things. The best diagnosis I've seen that fits him is the PDA(Pathological Demand Avoidance) autism profile, which is technically not a thing in the US, but has been described in the UK pretty extensively. Everything they suggest to do we just naturally figured out to do to keep him regulated.
And he is fine at home. Is he a perfectly well-behaved child? Of course not. But we listen to him. Read him. Work with him. And we have never seen the drastic behaviors they see in his school.
And his school is not doing that. They keep pushing him. Expecting things of him that he cannot do. And he keeps having issues. He melts down, and the infuriating part is they are acting like he is trying to manipulate them or throwing tantrums to get his way. Yes, he wants things his way, but not for funsies or to be some evil sociopath or whatever they are thinking. And, based on their language they use regularly for him, they do think he is being manipulative. At 6. A kindergartner, and they get upset because they are the adults and he should just not do that to them. But he gets dysregulated because they push him and regularly put him in uncomfortable positions. Should he eventually be OK with other kids in his space? Sure, probably, but it's not going to work if you keep forcing it in a haphazard way. He needs to work on it in a way that keeps him comfortable and doesn't just impose your will on him because you're the adult and he's the kid. And does he really need to have kids in his space if he feels genuine discomfort? If I poke you in the arm regularly because that's what society is, should I just tell you to get over it if it bothers you and expect me to keep poking you, even though I really don't need to poke you other than that's what we do? Does he really need the kids in his space, or can he just be comfortable by himself? And if he cannot have his own space for whatever reasons, how could they let him have his own space as much as possible?
It's like.. it feels like they're doing something wrong. And blaming him for their actions, or us for his actions.
And I get it's a classroom with other kids that the teachers are also responsible for. I would love if he was in a smaller classroom. If he could have a teacher who more thoroughly understood his neurodivergent profile and had the time to develop better techniques to help him, who had the space and time to give him the sensory help he needs. Who could give him more individualized attention. But that's not how schools are set up. Any smaller classroom size is for kids with learning deficits, due to how special education is set up in this country. They are actually bending a few rules and pretending he will get learning deficits because they know his behavior issues would be worse without the help he does get.
But why are the behavior issues so much worse at school? With all of the help he is getting, why does it seem to be getting worse and worse as the year goes on? Have they not learned anything about him to help him? This is where my anger is coming in. I don't know what they are doing- maybe they are doing their best, but their language and actions seem to be that they expect he can just "get over" what is bothering him if we .. talk about it or something? He can talk about things and seem rational, but really- what bothers him isn't at all rational.
So I really think he is in a school totally not appropriate for him. And yet.. I don't know how to go about getting a better school. Trying to arrange private schools or alternate schools, I've mentioned before, but because his behavior at school keeps getting worse I'm not sure if he can handle most schools that don't have really small class sizes and therapy/ counseling help. Most schools for intellectually gifted students have normal-sized classrooms. And most smaller-classroom schools are for kids who need it for learning help. I get now why I see a lot of homeschooling of kids in similar circumstances- I cannot do that for many reasons, so here I am, trying to find a way to get him proper schooling at an actual school.
If that's all there is my friends, then let's keep dancing
+4
KalnaurI See Rain . . .Centralia, WARegistered Userregular
I'm going to spoiler this for length, possibly edit it out in a bit, but I am just so.. annoyed? angry? at my son's school. And I'm going to raaammbbllleee.
So, my son is smart. I'll get that out of the way. I really hesitated to say this for a while, because I didn't want to be one of those people who tried to hold their kid up as some sort of misunderstood genius or pretend like he can do no wrong. Yes, IQ tests are problematic and don't give a full picture, but two separate ones done by two separate places gave similar pictures of a kid who is very intelligent.
But he has a lot of executive dysfunction. He is either autistic, has adhd, or some other flavor of neurodiversity that causes him to have a lot of problems at school. He is in Kindergarten. And K, in the past, was about having fun and learning to be with other kids. Current K is a lot different from when I was a kid- there is a lot more expected academics-wide. He is very good at math. Can mostly read when he wants to and is feeling comfortable. So, he can do the academics, but they keep pushing it on him. Because they want him to reach his potential.
But he needs a lot of coaching. A lot of explaining beforehand, getting buy-in, and a lot of backing-up if he feels pushed too far. And you need to be able to read him. In a class with 20 other kids, he can't really get that close attention. And so he reacts poorly. Sometimes he just tries to be by himself, and refuses to do the work. But if he feels cornered, he keeps people away by throwing stuff or messing up the classroom library or hallway by pulling things down into a big messy pile.
And I think they are using his intelligence to assign a sort of agency he just does not have.
Like, just the other day the sun outside at recess really bothered him and caused a meltdown. They say "he didn't tell us the sun was bothering him", yet he kept trying to get out of the sun, go to another area away from the sun, and the sun has bothered him to the point of meltdown in the past. I've spoken to him, and he has a hat in his backpack to help. But they don't look for the hat on sunny days, don't let him get out of the sun, and get upset he doesn't say the words "the sun is bothering me dear sirs and madams may I please have some time out of the sun?"
He has a 1:1 paraprofessional who can sit with him in an area out of the sun, or go with him somewhere else. So it's not just on the teacher.
Or, another example. The tables are set up in a way where he either needs to squeeze past another person to get to his seat, or possibly switch seats so that the other person would have to squeeze past him to get to their seat. He has very poor proprioception (body awareness), so feels constant discomfort when people are "in his space." He will get upset when other people walk near him, and it's been a thing since the beginning of the year. And yet, the teacher wants him to make a decision about which spot to sit in, and be fine with whatever he chooses and not get upset about squeezing past somebody or having somebody squeeze past him because he chose the seat to sit in.. He's 6. He can rationally chose a seat. But he cannot rationally decide that he no longer has sensory processing issues, and cannot chose to not feel discomfort. I mentioned to the teacher that he can pick a seat, but he will continue to have problems if the seats continue to be set up the way they are. I get that the classroom may need to be set up the way it is for space reasons, and kids need to be able to see the board (my son also has a hard time when he cannot see the board or screen, and gets upset then, too).
Like, I get that he is exhausting. He is stubborn. That is why he gets OT. He gets counseling. He's in the classroom with one gen ed and one special education teacher. He has a 1:1 paraprofessional.
He is also sweet and great when you listen to him and he has a lot of friends. The other kids are always saying hi and talking with him outside of class. He had to leave his after-school program due to lack of supports, and some of the other kids in his after-school, but not classroom, were genuinely sad to see him go. He plays with other kids really nicely, and is outgoing and kind. He wants to do well and likes learning in school.
But he is non-Newtonian, and if you push him too hard he will push right back even harder. If you tell him what to do in no uncertain terms, he will take that as a challenge. He needs a more gentle approach, with more buy-in and more, frankly, work, to get him to do things. The best diagnosis I've seen that fits him is the PDA(Pathological Demand Avoidance) autism profile, which is technically not a thing in the US, but has been described in the UK pretty extensively. Everything they suggest to do we just naturally figured out to do to keep him regulated.
And he is fine at home. Is he a perfectly well-behaved child? Of course not. But we listen to him. Read him. Work with him. And we have never seen the drastic behaviors they see in his school.
And his school is not doing that. They keep pushing him. Expecting things of him that he cannot do. And he keeps having issues. He melts down, and the infuriating part is they are acting like he is trying to manipulate them or throwing tantrums to get his way. Yes, he wants things his way, but not for funsies or to be some evil sociopath or whatever they are thinking. And, based on their language they use regularly for him, they do think he is being manipulative. At 6. A kindergartner, and they get upset because they are the adults and he should just not do that to them. But he gets dysregulated because they push him and regularly put him in uncomfortable positions. Should he eventually be OK with other kids in his space? Sure, probably, but it's not going to work if you keep forcing it in a haphazard way. He needs to work on it in a way that keeps him comfortable and doesn't just impose your will on him because you're the adult and he's the kid. And does he really need to have kids in his space if he feels genuine discomfort? If I poke you in the arm regularly because that's what society is, should I just tell you to get over it if it bothers you and expect me to keep poking you, even though I really don't need to poke you other than that's what we do? Does he really need the kids in his space, or can he just be comfortable by himself? And if he cannot have his own space for whatever reasons, how could they let him have his own space as much as possible?
It's like.. it feels like they're doing something wrong. And blaming him for their actions, or us for his actions.
And I get it's a classroom with other kids that the teachers are also responsible for. I would love if he was in a smaller classroom. If he could have a teacher who more thoroughly understood his neurodivergent profile and had the time to develop better techniques to help him, who had the space and time to give him the sensory help he needs. Who could give him more individualized attention. But that's not how schools are set up. Any smaller classroom size is for kids with learning deficits, due to how special education is set up in this country. They are actually bending a few rules and pretending he will get learning deficits because they know his behavior issues would be worse without the help he does get.
But why are the behavior issues so much worse at school? With all of the help he is getting, why does it seem to be getting worse and worse as the year goes on? Have they not learned anything about him to help him? This is where my anger is coming in. I don't know what they are doing- maybe they are doing their best, but their language and actions seem to be that they expect he can just "get over" what is bothering him if we .. talk about it or something? He can talk about things and seem rational, but really- what bothers him isn't at all rational.
So I really think he is in a school totally not appropriate for him. And yet.. I don't know how to go about getting a better school. Trying to arrange private schools or alternate schools, I've mentioned before, but because his behavior at school keeps getting worse I'm not sure if he can handle most schools that don't have really small class sizes and therapy/ counseling help. Most schools for intellectually gifted students have normal-sized classrooms. And most smaller-classroom schools are for kids who need it for learning help. I get now why I see a lot of homeschooling of kids in similar circumstances- I cannot do that for many reasons, so here I am, trying to find a way to get him proper schooling at an actual school.
I don't really have any advice here, just wanted to say that your kiddo makes me think of a slightly more extreme version . . . of me. I still hate people in my space, I still rail against people who think they should have authority "just because", who try to force me to to do things "their way" without any other reasoning than "because I say so". I still need to be able to do things my way, or I can't do anything at all. I still have high levels of executive dysfunction, where even when I want to do something I like I still have trouble actually moving towards that goal (and it helps when others gently prompt, but don't demand, me to do "the thing"). And I still very much need to be walked through something if I've never done it before. Like, I don't know what I don't know, and I have no idea where I'd even start, and I really do best when starting with specific or even written instruction.
My thing as a kid wasn't to act out, but to zone out. To make my own little world and space and mentally exclude the irritants from it. Which . . . was not specifically appreciated. They assumed I was lazy, or not paying attention, or trying to disrespect them, and many of the teachers thought I was annoying because of all of this.
My son is non-verbal (mostly), very bright (he's made his own videos and animations at 5 years old using various software he picks), and certainly autistic. I hate that he may not be the fit for public school that other kids are because I'd like him to have the socialization component, but he'll hit at the computer if it's causing him grief. They loved him at school that first preschool year until COVID hit and then we had to do school online and he didn't interact as well. He's usually even-tempered but I'm also not usually forcing him to do things he doesn't want to do or doesn't see the point in, and I don't have any clue how he'd do in school. I might just become his teacher as well as his dad, and that's a daunting prospect, to be sure.
I went through US public school, and man was it a struggle of a time. I'm not sure where you live specifically or what options are available to you so I'm not even helpful there. All I want to say is thank you for trying to do right by your kid.
I make art things! deviantART:Kalnaur ::: Origin: Kalnaur ::: UPlay: Kalnaur
I'm going to spoiler this for length, possibly edit it out in a bit, but I am just so.. annoyed? angry? at my son's school. And I'm going to raaammbbllleee.
So, my son is smart. I'll get that out of the way. I really hesitated to say this for a while, because I didn't want to be one of those people who tried to hold their kid up as some sort of misunderstood genius or pretend like he can do no wrong. Yes, IQ tests are problematic and don't give a full picture, but two separate ones done by two separate places gave similar pictures of a kid who is very intelligent.
But he has a lot of executive dysfunction. He is either autistic, has adhd, or some other flavor of neurodiversity that causes him to have a lot of problems at school. He is in Kindergarten. And K, in the past, was about having fun and learning to be with other kids. Current K is a lot different from when I was a kid- there is a lot more expected academics-wide. He is very good at math. Can mostly read when he wants to and is feeling comfortable. So, he can do the academics, but they keep pushing it on him. Because they want him to reach his potential.
But he needs a lot of coaching. A lot of explaining beforehand, getting buy-in, and a lot of backing-up if he feels pushed too far. And you need to be able to read him. In a class with 20 other kids, he can't really get that close attention. And so he reacts poorly. Sometimes he just tries to be by himself, and refuses to do the work. But if he feels cornered, he keeps people away by throwing stuff or messing up the classroom library or hallway by pulling things down into a big messy pile.
And I think they are using his intelligence to assign a sort of agency he just does not have.
Like, just the other day the sun outside at recess really bothered him and caused a meltdown. They say "he didn't tell us the sun was bothering him", yet he kept trying to get out of the sun, go to another area away from the sun, and the sun has bothered him to the point of meltdown in the past. I've spoken to him, and he has a hat in his backpack to help. But they don't look for the hat on sunny days, don't let him get out of the sun, and get upset he doesn't say the words "the sun is bothering me dear sirs and madams may I please have some time out of the sun?"
He has a 1:1 paraprofessional who can sit with him in an area out of the sun, or go with him somewhere else. So it's not just on the teacher.
Or, another example. The tables are set up in a way where he either needs to squeeze past another person to get to his seat, or possibly switch seats so that the other person would have to squeeze past him to get to their seat. He has very poor proprioception (body awareness), so feels constant discomfort when people are "in his space." He will get upset when other people walk near him, and it's been a thing since the beginning of the year. And yet, the teacher wants him to make a decision about which spot to sit in, and be fine with whatever he chooses and not get upset about squeezing past somebody or having somebody squeeze past him because he chose the seat to sit in.. He's 6. He can rationally chose a seat. But he cannot rationally decide that he no longer has sensory processing issues, and cannot chose to not feel discomfort. I mentioned to the teacher that he can pick a seat, but he will continue to have problems if the seats continue to be set up the way they are. I get that the classroom may need to be set up the way it is for space reasons, and kids need to be able to see the board (my son also has a hard time when he cannot see the board or screen, and gets upset then, too).
Like, I get that he is exhausting. He is stubborn. That is why he gets OT. He gets counseling. He's in the classroom with one gen ed and one special education teacher. He has a 1:1 paraprofessional.
He is also sweet and great when you listen to him and he has a lot of friends. The other kids are always saying hi and talking with him outside of class. He had to leave his after-school program due to lack of supports, and some of the other kids in his after-school, but not classroom, were genuinely sad to see him go. He plays with other kids really nicely, and is outgoing and kind. He wants to do well and likes learning in school.
But he is non-Newtonian, and if you push him too hard he will push right back even harder. If you tell him what to do in no uncertain terms, he will take that as a challenge. He needs a more gentle approach, with more buy-in and more, frankly, work, to get him to do things. The best diagnosis I've seen that fits him is the PDA(Pathological Demand Avoidance) autism profile, which is technically not a thing in the US, but has been described in the UK pretty extensively. Everything they suggest to do we just naturally figured out to do to keep him regulated.
And he is fine at home. Is he a perfectly well-behaved child? Of course not. But we listen to him. Read him. Work with him. And we have never seen the drastic behaviors they see in his school.
And his school is not doing that. They keep pushing him. Expecting things of him that he cannot do. And he keeps having issues. He melts down, and the infuriating part is they are acting like he is trying to manipulate them or throwing tantrums to get his way. Yes, he wants things his way, but not for funsies or to be some evil sociopath or whatever they are thinking. And, based on their language they use regularly for him, they do think he is being manipulative. At 6. A kindergartner, and they get upset because they are the adults and he should just not do that to them. But he gets dysregulated because they push him and regularly put him in uncomfortable positions. Should he eventually be OK with other kids in his space? Sure, probably, but it's not going to work if you keep forcing it in a haphazard way. He needs to work on it in a way that keeps him comfortable and doesn't just impose your will on him because you're the adult and he's the kid. And does he really need to have kids in his space if he feels genuine discomfort? If I poke you in the arm regularly because that's what society is, should I just tell you to get over it if it bothers you and expect me to keep poking you, even though I really don't need to poke you other than that's what we do? Does he really need the kids in his space, or can he just be comfortable by himself? And if he cannot have his own space for whatever reasons, how could they let him have his own space as much as possible?
It's like.. it feels like they're doing something wrong. And blaming him for their actions, or us for his actions.
And I get it's a classroom with other kids that the teachers are also responsible for. I would love if he was in a smaller classroom. If he could have a teacher who more thoroughly understood his neurodivergent profile and had the time to develop better techniques to help him, who had the space and time to give him the sensory help he needs. Who could give him more individualized attention. But that's not how schools are set up. Any smaller classroom size is for kids with learning deficits, due to how special education is set up in this country. They are actually bending a few rules and pretending he will get learning deficits because they know his behavior issues would be worse without the help he does get.
But why are the behavior issues so much worse at school? With all of the help he is getting, why does it seem to be getting worse and worse as the year goes on? Have they not learned anything about him to help him? This is where my anger is coming in. I don't know what they are doing- maybe they are doing their best, but their language and actions seem to be that they expect he can just "get over" what is bothering him if we .. talk about it or something? He can talk about things and seem rational, but really- what bothers him isn't at all rational.
So I really think he is in a school totally not appropriate for him. And yet.. I don't know how to go about getting a better school. Trying to arrange private schools or alternate schools, I've mentioned before, but because his behavior at school keeps getting worse I'm not sure if he can handle most schools that don't have really small class sizes and therapy/ counseling help. Most schools for intellectually gifted students have normal-sized classrooms. And most smaller-classroom schools are for kids who need it for learning help. I get now why I see a lot of homeschooling of kids in similar circumstances- I cannot do that for many reasons, so here I am, trying to find a way to get him proper schooling at an actual school.
I don't really have any advice here, just wanted to say that your kiddo makes me think of a slightly more extreme version . . . of me. I still hate people in my space, I still rail against people who think they should have authority "just because", who try to force me to to do things "their way" without any other reasoning than "because I say so". I still need to be able to do things my way, or I can't do anything at all. I still have high levels of executive dysfunction, where even when I want to do something I like I still have trouble actually moving towards that goal (and it helps when others gently prompt, but don't demand, me to do "the thing"). And I still very much need to be walked through something if I've never done it before. Like, I don't know what I don't know, and I have no idea where I'd even start, and I really do best when starting with specific or even written instruction.
My thing as a kid wasn't to act out, but to zone out. To make my own little world and space and mentally exclude the irritants from it. Which . . . was not specifically appreciated. They assumed I was lazy, or not paying attention, or trying to disrespect them, and many of the teachers thought I was annoying because of all of this.
My son is non-verbal (mostly), very bright (he's made his own videos and animations at 5 years old using various software he picks), and certainly autistic. I hate that he may not be the fit for public school that other kids are because I'd like him to have the socialization component, but he'll hit at the computer if it's causing him grief. They loved him at school that first preschool year until COVID hit and then we had to do school online and he didn't interact as well. He's usually even-tempered but I'm also not usually forcing him to do things he doesn't want to do or doesn't see the point in, and I don't have any clue how he'd do in school. I might just become his teacher as well as his dad, and that's a daunting prospect, to be sure.
I went through US public school, and man was it a struggle of a time. I'm not sure where you live specifically or what options are available to you so I'm not even helpful there. All I want to say is thank you for trying to do right by your kid.
Thank you I also see a bit of myself in him, which is another reason I'm kind of feeling second-hand .. resentment? I know how I was treated in school, and I know things have definitely changed in the decades since, but I also hear some of the words that were used against me being used against him.
There are a lot of irritants in public schools that just.. don't work for neurodivergent kids. And expectations and demands that aren't really necessary, but they enforce just to.. enforce. It's really hard to find what works, and the special education system is built in a way to fit certain kids to their standards without working around what the kids really need.
If you end up homeschooling, you are a better person than me, though. One thing Covid remote learning has taught me is that I am not built to be a teacher for my kid. It's hard work.
If that's all there is my friends, then let's keep dancing
+1
Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
I'm going to spoiler this for length, possibly edit it out in a bit, but I am just so.. annoyed? angry? at my son's school. And I'm going to raaammbbllleee.
So, my son is smart. I'll get that out of the way. I really hesitated to say this for a while, because I didn't want to be one of those people who tried to hold their kid up as some sort of misunderstood genius or pretend like he can do no wrong. Yes, IQ tests are problematic and don't give a full picture, but two separate ones done by two separate places gave similar pictures of a kid who is very intelligent.
But he has a lot of executive dysfunction. He is either autistic, has adhd, or some other flavor of neurodiversity that causes him to have a lot of problems at school. He is in Kindergarten. And K, in the past, was about having fun and learning to be with other kids. Current K is a lot different from when I was a kid- there is a lot more expected academics-wide. He is very good at math. Can mostly read when he wants to and is feeling comfortable. So, he can do the academics, but they keep pushing it on him. Because they want him to reach his potential.
But he needs a lot of coaching. A lot of explaining beforehand, getting buy-in, and a lot of backing-up if he feels pushed too far. And you need to be able to read him. In a class with 20 other kids, he can't really get that close attention. And so he reacts poorly. Sometimes he just tries to be by himself, and refuses to do the work. But if he feels cornered, he keeps people away by throwing stuff or messing up the classroom library or hallway by pulling things down into a big messy pile.
And I think they are using his intelligence to assign a sort of agency he just does not have.
Like, just the other day the sun outside at recess really bothered him and caused a meltdown. They say "he didn't tell us the sun was bothering him", yet he kept trying to get out of the sun, go to another area away from the sun, and the sun has bothered him to the point of meltdown in the past. I've spoken to him, and he has a hat in his backpack to help. But they don't look for the hat on sunny days, don't let him get out of the sun, and get upset he doesn't say the words "the sun is bothering me dear sirs and madams may I please have some time out of the sun?"
He has a 1:1 paraprofessional who can sit with him in an area out of the sun, or go with him somewhere else. So it's not just on the teacher.
Or, another example. The tables are set up in a way where he either needs to squeeze past another person to get to his seat, or possibly switch seats so that the other person would have to squeeze past him to get to their seat. He has very poor proprioception (body awareness), so feels constant discomfort when people are "in his space." He will get upset when other people walk near him, and it's been a thing since the beginning of the year. And yet, the teacher wants him to make a decision about which spot to sit in, and be fine with whatever he chooses and not get upset about squeezing past somebody or having somebody squeeze past him because he chose the seat to sit in.. He's 6. He can rationally chose a seat. But he cannot rationally decide that he no longer has sensory processing issues, and cannot chose to not feel discomfort. I mentioned to the teacher that he can pick a seat, but he will continue to have problems if the seats continue to be set up the way they are. I get that the classroom may need to be set up the way it is for space reasons, and kids need to be able to see the board (my son also has a hard time when he cannot see the board or screen, and gets upset then, too).
Like, I get that he is exhausting. He is stubborn. That is why he gets OT. He gets counseling. He's in the classroom with one gen ed and one special education teacher. He has a 1:1 paraprofessional.
He is also sweet and great when you listen to him and he has a lot of friends. The other kids are always saying hi and talking with him outside of class. He had to leave his after-school program due to lack of supports, and some of the other kids in his after-school, but not classroom, were genuinely sad to see him go. He plays with other kids really nicely, and is outgoing and kind. He wants to do well and likes learning in school.
But he is non-Newtonian, and if you push him too hard he will push right back even harder. If you tell him what to do in no uncertain terms, he will take that as a challenge. He needs a more gentle approach, with more buy-in and more, frankly, work, to get him to do things. The best diagnosis I've seen that fits him is the PDA(Pathological Demand Avoidance) autism profile, which is technically not a thing in the US, but has been described in the UK pretty extensively. Everything they suggest to do we just naturally figured out to do to keep him regulated.
And he is fine at home. Is he a perfectly well-behaved child? Of course not. But we listen to him. Read him. Work with him. And we have never seen the drastic behaviors they see in his school.
And his school is not doing that. They keep pushing him. Expecting things of him that he cannot do. And he keeps having issues. He melts down, and the infuriating part is they are acting like he is trying to manipulate them or throwing tantrums to get his way. Yes, he wants things his way, but not for funsies or to be some evil sociopath or whatever they are thinking. And, based on their language they use regularly for him, they do think he is being manipulative. At 6. A kindergartner, and they get upset because they are the adults and he should just not do that to them. But he gets dysregulated because they push him and regularly put him in uncomfortable positions. Should he eventually be OK with other kids in his space? Sure, probably, but it's not going to work if you keep forcing it in a haphazard way. He needs to work on it in a way that keeps him comfortable and doesn't just impose your will on him because you're the adult and he's the kid. And does he really need to have kids in his space if he feels genuine discomfort? If I poke you in the arm regularly because that's what society is, should I just tell you to get over it if it bothers you and expect me to keep poking you, even though I really don't need to poke you other than that's what we do? Does he really need the kids in his space, or can he just be comfortable by himself? And if he cannot have his own space for whatever reasons, how could they let him have his own space as much as possible?
It's like.. it feels like they're doing something wrong. And blaming him for their actions, or us for his actions.
And I get it's a classroom with other kids that the teachers are also responsible for. I would love if he was in a smaller classroom. If he could have a teacher who more thoroughly understood his neurodivergent profile and had the time to develop better techniques to help him, who had the space and time to give him the sensory help he needs. Who could give him more individualized attention. But that's not how schools are set up. Any smaller classroom size is for kids with learning deficits, due to how special education is set up in this country. They are actually bending a few rules and pretending he will get learning deficits because they know his behavior issues would be worse without the help he does get.
But why are the behavior issues so much worse at school? With all of the help he is getting, why does it seem to be getting worse and worse as the year goes on? Have they not learned anything about him to help him? This is where my anger is coming in. I don't know what they are doing- maybe they are doing their best, but their language and actions seem to be that they expect he can just "get over" what is bothering him if we .. talk about it or something? He can talk about things and seem rational, but really- what bothers him isn't at all rational.
So I really think he is in a school totally not appropriate for him. And yet.. I don't know how to go about getting a better school. Trying to arrange private schools or alternate schools, I've mentioned before, but because his behavior at school keeps getting worse I'm not sure if he can handle most schools that don't have really small class sizes and therapy/ counseling help. Most schools for intellectually gifted students have normal-sized classrooms. And most smaller-classroom schools are for kids who need it for learning help. I get now why I see a lot of homeschooling of kids in similar circumstances- I cannot do that for many reasons, so here I am, trying to find a way to get him proper schooling at an actual school.
If he is having one on one support time due to adhd (out other things) he is probably on some kind of support plan. Ask to see the support plan and make changes it if you disagree with it, and when they don’t follow the document then you bring that up with them.
I'm going to spoiler this for length, possibly edit it out in a bit, but I am just so.. annoyed? angry? at my son's school. And I'm going to raaammbbllleee.
So, my son is smart. I'll get that out of the way. I really hesitated to say this for a while, because I didn't want to be one of those people who tried to hold their kid up as some sort of misunderstood genius or pretend like he can do no wrong. Yes, IQ tests are problematic and don't give a full picture, but two separate ones done by two separate places gave similar pictures of a kid who is very intelligent.
But he has a lot of executive dysfunction. He is either autistic, has adhd, or some other flavor of neurodiversity that causes him to have a lot of problems at school. He is in Kindergarten. And K, in the past, was about having fun and learning to be with other kids. Current K is a lot different from when I was a kid- there is a lot more expected academics-wide. He is very good at math. Can mostly read when he wants to and is feeling comfortable. So, he can do the academics, but they keep pushing it on him. Because they want him to reach his potential.
But he needs a lot of coaching. A lot of explaining beforehand, getting buy-in, and a lot of backing-up if he feels pushed too far. And you need to be able to read him. In a class with 20 other kids, he can't really get that close attention. And so he reacts poorly. Sometimes he just tries to be by himself, and refuses to do the work. But if he feels cornered, he keeps people away by throwing stuff or messing up the classroom library or hallway by pulling things down into a big messy pile.
And I think they are using his intelligence to assign a sort of agency he just does not have.
Like, just the other day the sun outside at recess really bothered him and caused a meltdown. They say "he didn't tell us the sun was bothering him", yet he kept trying to get out of the sun, go to another area away from the sun, and the sun has bothered him to the point of meltdown in the past. I've spoken to him, and he has a hat in his backpack to help. But they don't look for the hat on sunny days, don't let him get out of the sun, and get upset he doesn't say the words "the sun is bothering me dear sirs and madams may I please have some time out of the sun?"
He has a 1:1 paraprofessional who can sit with him in an area out of the sun, or go with him somewhere else. So it's not just on the teacher.
Or, another example. The tables are set up in a way where he either needs to squeeze past another person to get to his seat, or possibly switch seats so that the other person would have to squeeze past him to get to their seat. He has very poor proprioception (body awareness), so feels constant discomfort when people are "in his space." He will get upset when other people walk near him, and it's been a thing since the beginning of the year. And yet, the teacher wants him to make a decision about which spot to sit in, and be fine with whatever he chooses and not get upset about squeezing past somebody or having somebody squeeze past him because he chose the seat to sit in.. He's 6. He can rationally chose a seat. But he cannot rationally decide that he no longer has sensory processing issues, and cannot chose to not feel discomfort. I mentioned to the teacher that he can pick a seat, but he will continue to have problems if the seats continue to be set up the way they are. I get that the classroom may need to be set up the way it is for space reasons, and kids need to be able to see the board (my son also has a hard time when he cannot see the board or screen, and gets upset then, too).
Like, I get that he is exhausting. He is stubborn. That is why he gets OT. He gets counseling. He's in the classroom with one gen ed and one special education teacher. He has a 1:1 paraprofessional.
He is also sweet and great when you listen to him and he has a lot of friends. The other kids are always saying hi and talking with him outside of class. He had to leave his after-school program due to lack of supports, and some of the other kids in his after-school, but not classroom, were genuinely sad to see him go. He plays with other kids really nicely, and is outgoing and kind. He wants to do well and likes learning in school.
But he is non-Newtonian, and if you push him too hard he will push right back even harder. If you tell him what to do in no uncertain terms, he will take that as a challenge. He needs a more gentle approach, with more buy-in and more, frankly, work, to get him to do things. The best diagnosis I've seen that fits him is the PDA(Pathological Demand Avoidance) autism profile, which is technically not a thing in the US, but has been described in the UK pretty extensively. Everything they suggest to do we just naturally figured out to do to keep him regulated.
And he is fine at home. Is he a perfectly well-behaved child? Of course not. But we listen to him. Read him. Work with him. And we have never seen the drastic behaviors they see in his school.
And his school is not doing that. They keep pushing him. Expecting things of him that he cannot do. And he keeps having issues. He melts down, and the infuriating part is they are acting like he is trying to manipulate them or throwing tantrums to get his way. Yes, he wants things his way, but not for funsies or to be some evil sociopath or whatever they are thinking. And, based on their language they use regularly for him, they do think he is being manipulative. At 6. A kindergartner, and they get upset because they are the adults and he should just not do that to them. But he gets dysregulated because they push him and regularly put him in uncomfortable positions. Should he eventually be OK with other kids in his space? Sure, probably, but it's not going to work if you keep forcing it in a haphazard way. He needs to work on it in a way that keeps him comfortable and doesn't just impose your will on him because you're the adult and he's the kid. And does he really need to have kids in his space if he feels genuine discomfort? If I poke you in the arm regularly because that's what society is, should I just tell you to get over it if it bothers you and expect me to keep poking you, even though I really don't need to poke you other than that's what we do? Does he really need the kids in his space, or can he just be comfortable by himself? And if he cannot have his own space for whatever reasons, how could they let him have his own space as much as possible?
It's like.. it feels like they're doing something wrong. And blaming him for their actions, or us for his actions.
And I get it's a classroom with other kids that the teachers are also responsible for. I would love if he was in a smaller classroom. If he could have a teacher who more thoroughly understood his neurodivergent profile and had the time to develop better techniques to help him, who had the space and time to give him the sensory help he needs. Who could give him more individualized attention. But that's not how schools are set up. Any smaller classroom size is for kids with learning deficits, due to how special education is set up in this country. They are actually bending a few rules and pretending he will get learning deficits because they know his behavior issues would be worse without the help he does get.
But why are the behavior issues so much worse at school? With all of the help he is getting, why does it seem to be getting worse and worse as the year goes on? Have they not learned anything about him to help him? This is where my anger is coming in. I don't know what they are doing- maybe they are doing their best, but their language and actions seem to be that they expect he can just "get over" what is bothering him if we .. talk about it or something? He can talk about things and seem rational, but really- what bothers him isn't at all rational.
So I really think he is in a school totally not appropriate for him. And yet.. I don't know how to go about getting a better school. Trying to arrange private schools or alternate schools, I've mentioned before, but because his behavior at school keeps getting worse I'm not sure if he can handle most schools that don't have really small class sizes and therapy/ counseling help. Most schools for intellectually gifted students have normal-sized classrooms. And most smaller-classroom schools are for kids who need it for learning help. I get now why I see a lot of homeschooling of kids in similar circumstances- I cannot do that for many reasons, so here I am, trying to find a way to get him proper schooling at an actual school.
If he is having one on one support time due to adhd (out other things) he is probably on some kind of support plan. Ask to see the support plan and make changes it if you disagree with it, and when they don’t follow the document then you bring that up with them.
He has a plan. But it's very.. sparse? I'm not an expert, so I wouldn't even know where to begin with making it better. He's fine with us, but we're not school and have different expectations of him.
Spoiler for more, mostly irrelevant, rant that isn't really directed anywhere in particular
But like, they need to listen to him. And when he talks, pay attention. And "listen" to his behavior before it gets disruptive.
Yesterday he got upset because he raised his hand to participate in class, and he didn't get called on. More than once. And yeah, most kids need to learn they won't be called on. But they didn't notice how upset it made him, and didn't do anything to calm him down before he had a meltdown over it. Then they punished him because he got physical in the meltdown (pushed his para)
Which again, yes, he shouldn't get physical. But he will view the punishment as punishing trying to participate in class. Which will upset him more, as he won't know how to participate if they don't call on him. So he might speak out of turn to get his ideas out to stay regulated. Which he will probably get in trouble for, and they won't listen to him again, and dysregulate him. And they will say it's out of nowhere, and he shouldn't be speaking out in class. And I don't know how many of his behaviors are based on things like this.
And I don't know how to put that in a plan for general use. We can't realistically say he must always be called on, especially in a class with 20 other students. But I also don't know how to help him be ok with not being called on, since at home, when he can't talk right away, we do circle back and let him have his say later.
And we could try to get his para to "mediate" and listen to him so he doesn't have to raise a hand. But then he's participating with the para, and not with class, which they don't like doing. And he doesn't always like doing, because he wants to participate in class. It just takes a lot of management with him, and I get it's exhausting, but I don't know what to implement or how, or what's even possible.
I can say to listen to him, and they will say he needs to use his words. And I will say his behavior is communication, and they will claim his meltdowns happen out of nowhere. And since I wasn't actually there, I cannot say for sure what his behaviors actually were other than what he says and what I can infer.
And he may be a completely regulated angel who is nothing but sunshine and roses until he gets upset. Completely contrary to what he tells us after, past behaviors, and how he acts everywhere else.
In which case, they should be coming up with plans on how to get him comfortable enough to either self- regulate or get help before things become unmanageable for him. Because he's 6, and won't do it himself. And I don't know how to put that in a plan myself.
If he wasn't so smart, there are many different programs to help. But American special education focuses solely on learning problems, so everything they write up has to point back to getting him involved in the class.
If that's all there is my friends, then let's keep dancing
+1
Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
edited May 2022
Ok so, behaviour/education plans are about “setting kids up to succeed”. And that’s in quotes because that is the exact wording you should use when you talk to the teachers. The fact that it is sparse, or not sparse, isn’t a problem, what you need to do is read it, and check with the teachers that if they follow the plan, does your kid do well? If they don’t do well then, it’s time to change the plan, if they do do well when they follow the plan, the follow up question is, why aren’t they following the plan if your kid performs well when they follow the plan, and you talk to someone higher if they aren’t following the plan. Just to be clear, not following a behaviour plan is a big issue for teaching, you are required to.
As to what should be on the plan, what you’ve said up there is stuff that should be there. Make sure he has by in to the task, watch his body language rather than listening to verbal cues. These are things that should all be on there. And once they are on there and once they are being followed he improves, it’s good, and if they follow them and it doesn’t work, you sit down and discuss what you can do different, and if they don’t follow it, then you are within your right at the school to ask for something to change.
I know I’ve written this as if it’s “get a behaviour plan and it will solve everything” it won’t but it’s your best tool as a parent to ask the school how they are supporting your kid so I do recommend to sit down with your teacher and maybe the education assistant coordinator and use it to start a conversation about accountability in terms of addressing your kids needs.
If he is having one on one support time due to adhd (out other things) he is probably on some kind of support plan. Ask to see the support plan and make changes it if you disagree with it, and when they don’t follow the document then you bring that up with them.
He has a plan. But it's very.. sparse? I'm not an expert, so I wouldn't even know where to begin with making it better. He's fine with us, but we're not school and have different expectations of him.
Spoiler for more, mostly irrelevant, rant that isn't really directed anywhere in particular
But like, they need to listen to him. And when he talks, pay attention. And "listen" to his behavior before it gets disruptive.
Yesterday he got upset because he raised his hand to participate in class, and he didn't get called on. More than once. And yeah, most kids need to learn they won't be called on. But they didn't notice how upset it made him, and didn't do anything to calm him down before he had a meltdown over it. Then they punished him because he got physical in the meltdown (pushed his para)
Which again, yes, he shouldn't get physical. But he will view the punishment as punishing trying to participate in class. Which will upset him more, as he won't know how to participate if they don't call on him. So he might speak out of turn to get his ideas out to stay regulated. Which he will probably get in trouble for, and they won't listen to him again, and dysregulate him. And they will say it's out of nowhere, and he shouldn't be speaking out in class. And I don't know how many of his behaviors are based on things like this.
And I don't know how to put that in a plan for general use. We can't realistically say he must always be called on, especially in a class with 20 other students. But I also don't know how to help him be ok with not being called on, since at home, when he can't talk right away, we do circle back and let him have his say later.
And we could try to get his para to "mediate" and listen to him so he doesn't have to raise a hand. But then he's participating with the para, and not with class, which they don't like doing. And he doesn't always like doing, because he wants to participate in class. It just takes a lot of management with him, and I get it's exhausting, but I don't know what to implement or how, or what's even possible.
I can say to listen to him, and they will say he needs to use his words. And I will say his behavior is communication, and they will claim his meltdowns happen out of nowhere. And since I wasn't actually there, I cannot say for sure what his behaviors actually were other than what he says and what I can infer.
And he may be a completely regulated angel who is nothing but sunshine and roses until he gets upset. Completely contrary to what he tells us after, past behaviors, and how he acts everywhere else.
In which case, they should be coming up with plans on how to get him comfortable enough to either self- regulate or get help before things become unmanageable for him. Because he's 6, and won't do it himself. And I don't know how to put that in a plan myself.
If he wasn't so smart, there are many different programs to help. But American special education focuses solely on learning problems, so everything they write up has to point back to getting him involved in the class.
Some possible specific questions with this one problem, as examples of what could be asked and then written down as part of his plan: Can he write/could he write down his thoughts to share later (possibly at home)? Can it be explained that when he has his hand raised and isn't called on, it's like at home when he has to circle around to it later (and again encourage him to share his thoughts at home, or with the teacher after class)? Could the teacher give some kind of signal to recognize that they see him trying to participate even if he's not called on?
Because what's happening is a communication disconnect between him and the teachers, and that's not good for them and it's not good for him. So that would need to be in the plan, how to communicate with him. Not just telling them what they need to do to communicate with him, but having it actually written down so they're bound by the plan. As Blake says above, all the things you mention that he needs, those things need to be on the plan. Regardless of if they seem reasonable, don't think of what's "reasonable" in the classroom first, think about when he succeeds at home, and learns and is happy and regulated at home, what does that take? Then have that written out in the plan.
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KetarCome on upstairswe're having a partyRegistered Userregular
I'm at the gross father daughter dance. I'm at the super spreader event. I'm at the combination father daughter dance super spreader event.
Someone please shoot me.
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KetarCome on upstairswe're having a partyRegistered Userregular
That said, mad props to the 9 or 10 year old in slacks, shirt and tie, and blazer with Ray-Bans.
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Kane Red RobeMaster of MagicArcanusRegistered Userregular
Just teared up while making breakfast because Lore told Mrs. Red Robe "Love you too." for the first time.
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#pipeCocky Stride, Musky odoursPope of Chili TownRegistered Userregular
Just teared up while making breakfast because Lore told Mrs. Red Robe "Love you too." for the first time.
Bean has been parroting back to me when I leave for work in the mornings recently, so in a sing-songy voice he'll say "have fun at preschool!" or "Be nice to mummy!"
But one time this week the part he repeated back to me was "I love yoooouuu!" and even though I know he's just parroting it was still very nice.
6yo was invited to birthday party at indoor playground on the other end of city. Her and the wife get there no party nothing, it was either cancelled or never booked and no one told us so it was just the two of them looking dumb.
We spent $80 between a gift and Ubers over there, and worst of all the kiddo was so upset and disappointed. On the plus side 6yo got a new LOL doll she wanted (she picked it out cause she wanted it so figured he friend would like it too).
Not sure how my wife is going to handle seeing the mother on the playground tomorrow morning.
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In my personal experience, asthma and most breathing problems are always worse at night, mostly due to lying down (as you suspect) and being still. You could certainly look at adding or removing things from her room if you like… vaporizers do seem to help add some moisture into the room, which can help breathing overnight.
You may also find that the couch is better for her because of the position she lies in… does she sleep the same way in both rooms?
We don't have the monitor in her room anymore, but she side-sleeps on the couch, and when she's falling asleep in bed it's usually side as well, but if she's anything like me she spends most of the night twirling, twirling towards freedom
* garlic bread (made from french bread+garlic+butter) with
* pesto
* mayo
* bacon
* fried onions (his knife skills could do with some work, but I don't feel like I need to worry about him losing a finger, either)
* parmesan
* and cheddar
His willingness to spend time cooking, honestly, puts me to shame. Now we just need to get him to wash up after himself, because there is a frying pan, a baking sheet, a cutting board, and various small bowls that got dirtied along the way and he tends to just sort of leave them all sitting around until magically (ie his parents) they get cleaned.
(edit: this is a fascinating glimpse into nature -vs- nurture, because despite growing up in the same household, his older brother's cooking goes as far as cooking a hotdog, sometimes if he's feeling fancy a hot dog in a bun, microwaving pizza pockets; he will cook bacon but then it's just "a plate of bacon" as a snack, and worryingly almost-rare bacon to the point where I am amazed he's escaped food poisoning this far)
(edit 2: okay, I was unfair before; there was a garlic press left in the sink and the baking sheet needed cleaning, but he washed everything else up himself)
Update on this if anyone is interested!
Our candidate came for her test session and did really well, Bean enjoyed playing with her, and when he got confused and anxious she was able to adapt and adjust and they were back to being cool very quickly. A couple days later we made a (very generous) offer and sent her a contract and she accepted!
So they started the program this week! The first couple weeks are called "pairing", shorter sessions with no structure where they just play and get to know eachother. Their first session was super and when she left she asked Bean for a hug and he gave her a little drive-by squeeze ❤️
She also offered to do some private babysitting for a reduced rate in case we wanna have a date night which we've never had before. We're very lucky and excited!
Need some stuff designed or printed? I can help with that.
Satans..... hints.....
oh my gosh, honey. I am so happy for you all! This sounds absolutely amazing. I hope it all keeps working out well.
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Does, does she still ask questions in return, though?
Alt post: Ask why! Why? Why?
I love those books.
The last page of that book really makes it.
Does your kid deliver?
Youngest throws an hour-long tantrum over getting dressed.
Arrive late. No available tables at place my wife wanted to eat.
Go around corner to nice cafe with oversized cake display. Order food.
Entertain kids for 30 minutes while waiting for food.
Oldest suddenly needs to use toilet. Off we go.
Kid disappears inside cubicle. Doesn't come out. Apparently this is a long bathroom trip.
More waiting.
Okay, done. Return to find food has arrived!
In fact, it arrived so long ago that it has now gone cold.
Get kids through meal. Spend considerable effort stopping youngest from throwing himself at other tables while waiting for eldest to finish meal.
Kid go to wash hands now they're finished. See gelato display and want ice cream, despite both of them being full and neither of them finishing lunch not 5 minutes ago.
Kids cranky, wife disappointed, parking about to expire, haul family back to car and drive home.
It's a real shame that mother's day requires having kids, because damn if they don't just make it difficult to celebrate. Or maybe that's why there's a mother's day.
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
I usually don't do home improvement tasks the same weekend as football, as my body is usually a wreck for more than a day after a game these days. I put a lot into my football, and it takes a toll on my body now I'm the wrong side of 40. But so that she has a nice Mother's Day, I thought I'd try and make at least a little treat in the bathroom, then she can enjoy a nice spa bath.
Unfortunately this was a mistake, as my body was not up to the task, and I have now thrown my back out.
This has resulted in Jen now having to do more than usual this Mother's Day and grab some takeaways for dinner (she doesn't cook).
Next year, I'm just going to go back to baking.
I stayed home where I baked and grieved.
but now we've ordered some Italian food on UberEats. Not a terrible day. I mean, it would have been better without the grief. but, it is what it is.
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
Kid made 3 handicraft gifts, none of them useful, all of them taking a lot of effort, so that's cute. We also got her some Lego. We got her breakfast on bed, but besides this we're pretty much treating it as a Hallmark holiday.
She immediately knew it wasn't me as:
1) I initiated the contact,
2) Replied more than twice, and
3) I asked for help.
My Mother's view of me as a son is definitely coloured by the fact that the last time I asked for her help in her memory was around 1993, when I asked her to show me how the washing machine worked so I could do my own damned laundry and not just get all my clothes mixed in with everyone else in the household.
Anyway, I figure that scam syndicate has me covered this year, so that's just one less message I need to send this year.
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Luckily a trip is still decent, with all the treats and TV he's getting, but it's one of the least good ones I've ever taken with my wife, and we only have one, relatively ok-behaved kid!
But I mostly wanted to talk about yesterday. It was nice yesterday. We went to the park! So the Mrs is taking a break, and I’m following the boy around as he climbs on stuff, falls over, and nearly gets wiped out by bigger kids running by.
And this woman I’ve never seen before in my life says “Oh, he looks a lot like you!”
That is not an unusual interaction in the park full of kids.
So I say, thanks but I actually don’t think that’s true - he looks like his mum.
And she says to me “Wait, you’re the dad aren’t you? You’d better be.”
I have no idea how to respond to that, but it did not come with good feelings. Parenting!
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Satans..... hints.....
Our elementary school just held a glow party, and it was fully insane but a ton of fun for the kids. Cutest moment of the night was definitely my son and his girlfriend (no idea where he gets his game, he's already on girlfriend #2 and he's only in 2nd grade) played some of the side games with each other calmly. He definitely even let her win one of them.
We saw a cute turtle!
They're long long days without him napping so I can have a break.
Only bonus is that he falls asleep much quicker in the evenings. Though he's still waking at 0615 to 0630.
"Ohshitohshitohshitdon'tcallthecops c'mon kiddo, time to go! Quickly now, move it!"
"Dad what's wrong?"
"Nothing pal, let's just go get some ice cream."
But he has a lot of executive dysfunction. He is either autistic, has adhd, or some other flavor of neurodiversity that causes him to have a lot of problems at school. He is in Kindergarten. And K, in the past, was about having fun and learning to be with other kids. Current K is a lot different from when I was a kid- there is a lot more expected academics-wide. He is very good at math. Can mostly read when he wants to and is feeling comfortable. So, he can do the academics, but they keep pushing it on him. Because they want him to reach his potential.
But he needs a lot of coaching. A lot of explaining beforehand, getting buy-in, and a lot of backing-up if he feels pushed too far. And you need to be able to read him. In a class with 20 other kids, he can't really get that close attention. And so he reacts poorly. Sometimes he just tries to be by himself, and refuses to do the work. But if he feels cornered, he keeps people away by throwing stuff or messing up the classroom library or hallway by pulling things down into a big messy pile.
And I think they are using his intelligence to assign a sort of agency he just does not have.
Like, just the other day the sun outside at recess really bothered him and caused a meltdown. They say "he didn't tell us the sun was bothering him", yet he kept trying to get out of the sun, go to another area away from the sun, and the sun has bothered him to the point of meltdown in the past. I've spoken to him, and he has a hat in his backpack to help. But they don't look for the hat on sunny days, don't let him get out of the sun, and get upset he doesn't say the words "the sun is bothering me dear sirs and madams may I please have some time out of the sun?"
He has a 1:1 paraprofessional who can sit with him in an area out of the sun, or go with him somewhere else. So it's not just on the teacher.
Or, another example. The tables are set up in a way where he either needs to squeeze past another person to get to his seat, or possibly switch seats so that the other person would have to squeeze past him to get to their seat. He has very poor proprioception (body awareness), so feels constant discomfort when people are "in his space." He will get upset when other people walk near him, and it's been a thing since the beginning of the year. And yet, the teacher wants him to make a decision about which spot to sit in, and be fine with whatever he chooses and not get upset about squeezing past somebody or having somebody squeeze past him because he chose the seat to sit in.. He's 6. He can rationally chose a seat. But he cannot rationally decide that he no longer has sensory processing issues, and cannot chose to not feel discomfort. I mentioned to the teacher that he can pick a seat, but he will continue to have problems if the seats continue to be set up the way they are. I get that the classroom may need to be set up the way it is for space reasons, and kids need to be able to see the board (my son also has a hard time when he cannot see the board or screen, and gets upset then, too).
Like, I get that he is exhausting. He is stubborn. That is why he gets OT. He gets counseling. He's in the classroom with one gen ed and one special education teacher. He has a 1:1 paraprofessional.
He is also sweet and great when you listen to him and he has a lot of friends. The other kids are always saying hi and talking with him outside of class. He had to leave his after-school program due to lack of supports, and some of the other kids in his after-school, but not classroom, were genuinely sad to see him go. He plays with other kids really nicely, and is outgoing and kind. He wants to do well and likes learning in school.
But he is non-Newtonian, and if you push him too hard he will push right back even harder. If you tell him what to do in no uncertain terms, he will take that as a challenge. He needs a more gentle approach, with more buy-in and more, frankly, work, to get him to do things. The best diagnosis I've seen that fits him is the PDA(Pathological Demand Avoidance) autism profile, which is technically not a thing in the US, but has been described in the UK pretty extensively. Everything they suggest to do we just naturally figured out to do to keep him regulated.
And he is fine at home. Is he a perfectly well-behaved child? Of course not. But we listen to him. Read him. Work with him. And we have never seen the drastic behaviors they see in his school.
And his school is not doing that. They keep pushing him. Expecting things of him that he cannot do. And he keeps having issues. He melts down, and the infuriating part is they are acting like he is trying to manipulate them or throwing tantrums to get his way. Yes, he wants things his way, but not for funsies or to be some evil sociopath or whatever they are thinking. And, based on their language they use regularly for him, they do think he is being manipulative. At 6. A kindergartner, and they get upset because they are the adults and he should just not do that to them. But he gets dysregulated because they push him and regularly put him in uncomfortable positions. Should he eventually be OK with other kids in his space? Sure, probably, but it's not going to work if you keep forcing it in a haphazard way. He needs to work on it in a way that keeps him comfortable and doesn't just impose your will on him because you're the adult and he's the kid. And does he really need to have kids in his space if he feels genuine discomfort? If I poke you in the arm regularly because that's what society is, should I just tell you to get over it if it bothers you and expect me to keep poking you, even though I really don't need to poke you other than that's what we do? Does he really need the kids in his space, or can he just be comfortable by himself? And if he cannot have his own space for whatever reasons, how could they let him have his own space as much as possible?
It's like.. it feels like they're doing something wrong. And blaming him for their actions, or us for his actions.
And I get it's a classroom with other kids that the teachers are also responsible for. I would love if he was in a smaller classroom. If he could have a teacher who more thoroughly understood his neurodivergent profile and had the time to develop better techniques to help him, who had the space and time to give him the sensory help he needs. Who could give him more individualized attention. But that's not how schools are set up. Any smaller classroom size is for kids with learning deficits, due to how special education is set up in this country. They are actually bending a few rules and pretending he will get learning deficits because they know his behavior issues would be worse without the help he does get.
But why are the behavior issues so much worse at school? With all of the help he is getting, why does it seem to be getting worse and worse as the year goes on? Have they not learned anything about him to help him? This is where my anger is coming in. I don't know what they are doing- maybe they are doing their best, but their language and actions seem to be that they expect he can just "get over" what is bothering him if we .. talk about it or something? He can talk about things and seem rational, but really- what bothers him isn't at all rational.
So I really think he is in a school totally not appropriate for him. And yet.. I don't know how to go about getting a better school. Trying to arrange private schools or alternate schools, I've mentioned before, but because his behavior at school keeps getting worse I'm not sure if he can handle most schools that don't have really small class sizes and therapy/ counseling help. Most schools for intellectually gifted students have normal-sized classrooms. And most smaller-classroom schools are for kids who need it for learning help. I get now why I see a lot of homeschooling of kids in similar circumstances- I cannot do that for many reasons, so here I am, trying to find a way to get him proper schooling at an actual school.
I don't really have any advice here, just wanted to say that your kiddo makes me think of a slightly more extreme version . . . of me. I still hate people in my space, I still rail against people who think they should have authority "just because", who try to force me to to do things "their way" without any other reasoning than "because I say so". I still need to be able to do things my way, or I can't do anything at all. I still have high levels of executive dysfunction, where even when I want to do something I like I still have trouble actually moving towards that goal (and it helps when others gently prompt, but don't demand, me to do "the thing"). And I still very much need to be walked through something if I've never done it before. Like, I don't know what I don't know, and I have no idea where I'd even start, and I really do best when starting with specific or even written instruction.
My thing as a kid wasn't to act out, but to zone out. To make my own little world and space and mentally exclude the irritants from it. Which . . . was not specifically appreciated. They assumed I was lazy, or not paying attention, or trying to disrespect them, and many of the teachers thought I was annoying because of all of this.
My son is non-verbal (mostly), very bright (he's made his own videos and animations at 5 years old using various software he picks), and certainly autistic. I hate that he may not be the fit for public school that other kids are because I'd like him to have the socialization component, but he'll hit at the computer if it's causing him grief. They loved him at school that first preschool year until COVID hit and then we had to do school online and he didn't interact as well. He's usually even-tempered but I'm also not usually forcing him to do things he doesn't want to do or doesn't see the point in, and I don't have any clue how he'd do in school. I might just become his teacher as well as his dad, and that's a daunting prospect, to be sure.
I went through US public school, and man was it a struggle of a time. I'm not sure where you live specifically or what options are available to you so I'm not even helpful there. All I want to say is thank you for trying to do right by your kid.
There are a lot of irritants in public schools that just.. don't work for neurodivergent kids. And expectations and demands that aren't really necessary, but they enforce just to.. enforce. It's really hard to find what works, and the special education system is built in a way to fit certain kids to their standards without working around what the kids really need.
If you end up homeschooling, you are a better person than me, though. One thing Covid remote learning has taught me is that I am not built to be a teacher for my kid. It's hard work.
If he is having one on one support time due to adhd (out other things) he is probably on some kind of support plan. Ask to see the support plan and make changes it if you disagree with it, and when they don’t follow the document then you bring that up with them.
Satans..... hints.....
He has a plan. But it's very.. sparse? I'm not an expert, so I wouldn't even know where to begin with making it better. He's fine with us, but we're not school and have different expectations of him.
Spoiler for more, mostly irrelevant, rant that isn't really directed anywhere in particular
Yesterday he got upset because he raised his hand to participate in class, and he didn't get called on. More than once. And yeah, most kids need to learn they won't be called on. But they didn't notice how upset it made him, and didn't do anything to calm him down before he had a meltdown over it. Then they punished him because he got physical in the meltdown (pushed his para)
Which again, yes, he shouldn't get physical. But he will view the punishment as punishing trying to participate in class. Which will upset him more, as he won't know how to participate if they don't call on him. So he might speak out of turn to get his ideas out to stay regulated. Which he will probably get in trouble for, and they won't listen to him again, and dysregulate him. And they will say it's out of nowhere, and he shouldn't be speaking out in class. And I don't know how many of his behaviors are based on things like this.
And I don't know how to put that in a plan for general use. We can't realistically say he must always be called on, especially in a class with 20 other students. But I also don't know how to help him be ok with not being called on, since at home, when he can't talk right away, we do circle back and let him have his say later.
And we could try to get his para to "mediate" and listen to him so he doesn't have to raise a hand. But then he's participating with the para, and not with class, which they don't like doing. And he doesn't always like doing, because he wants to participate in class. It just takes a lot of management with him, and I get it's exhausting, but I don't know what to implement or how, or what's even possible.
I can say to listen to him, and they will say he needs to use his words. And I will say his behavior is communication, and they will claim his meltdowns happen out of nowhere. And since I wasn't actually there, I cannot say for sure what his behaviors actually were other than what he says and what I can infer.
And he may be a completely regulated angel who is nothing but sunshine and roses until he gets upset. Completely contrary to what he tells us after, past behaviors, and how he acts everywhere else.
In which case, they should be coming up with plans on how to get him comfortable enough to either self- regulate or get help before things become unmanageable for him. Because he's 6, and won't do it himself. And I don't know how to put that in a plan myself.
As to what should be on the plan, what you’ve said up there is stuff that should be there. Make sure he has by in to the task, watch his body language rather than listening to verbal cues. These are things that should all be on there. And once they are on there and once they are being followed he improves, it’s good, and if they follow them and it doesn’t work, you sit down and discuss what you can do different, and if they don’t follow it, then you are within your right at the school to ask for something to change.
I know I’ve written this as if it’s “get a behaviour plan and it will solve everything” it won’t but it’s your best tool as a parent to ask the school how they are supporting your kid so I do recommend to sit down with your teacher and maybe the education assistant coordinator and use it to start a conversation about accountability in terms of addressing your kids needs.
Satans..... hints.....
Some possible specific questions with this one problem, as examples of what could be asked and then written down as part of his plan: Can he write/could he write down his thoughts to share later (possibly at home)? Can it be explained that when he has his hand raised and isn't called on, it's like at home when he has to circle around to it later (and again encourage him to share his thoughts at home, or with the teacher after class)? Could the teacher give some kind of signal to recognize that they see him trying to participate even if he's not called on?
Because what's happening is a communication disconnect between him and the teachers, and that's not good for them and it's not good for him. So that would need to be in the plan, how to communicate with him. Not just telling them what they need to do to communicate with him, but having it actually written down so they're bound by the plan. As Blake says above, all the things you mention that he needs, those things need to be on the plan. Regardless of if they seem reasonable, don't think of what's "reasonable" in the classroom first, think about when he succeeds at home, and learns and is happy and regulated at home, what does that take? Then have that written out in the plan.
Someone please shoot me.
Bean has been parroting back to me when I leave for work in the mornings recently, so in a sing-songy voice he'll say "have fun at preschool!" or "Be nice to mummy!"
But one time this week the part he repeated back to me was "I love yoooouuu!" and even though I know he's just parroting it was still very nice.
Need some stuff designed or printed? I can help with that.
We spent $80 between a gift and Ubers over there, and worst of all the kiddo was so upset and disappointed. On the plus side 6yo got a new LOL doll she wanted (she picked it out cause she wanted it so figured he friend would like it too).
Not sure how my wife is going to handle seeing the mother on the playground tomorrow morning.