Also from everything I understand, background checks and red flag laws would not have done anything to stop this guy picking up his weapons and killing kids. Despite my earlier thoughts, it doesn't look like he has a known record of police reports about domestic violence and similar issues - even if he did start everything by shooting his grandmother. So I'm unclear (right now) what could have been done to stop him acquiring guns out of the "palatable to implement for right wing fuckwits" options of background checks or potential red flag laws.
I think this shooting happens regardless of those kind of things.
A waiting period would probably help. He bought both of his assault rifles less than 2 weeks ago.
So he just does it X weeks or whatever later? Like, here in NZ to get a bolt action rifle I need to:
1) Get a police check and a mental health check. If I fail either no gun automatically.
2) Have secure weapons lockers and such (drilled into the floor in fact). Police need to investigate, sight and sign it off as okay.
3) I need to pass a gun license check
4) I need to wait one year before I am allowed to buy the weapon, while proving I am doing regular gun safety and similar courses (EG going to an official firing range)
After all of that I can buy and own my weapon. I need to secure that weapon separately from the ammunition and the gun itself, should be non-functional while stored (as an example, a bolt action rifle should not have the bolt in the gun while it's stored) and I cannot carry it openly in public (needs a secure carry case to be taken out such as when going hunting).
I could not buy an AR-15 whatsoever here and would be prosecuted by police for owning one.
The boy and four others hid under a table that had a tablecloth over it, which may have shielded them from the shooter's view and saved their lives. The boy shared heartbreaking details about what happened in that room.
“When the cops came, the cop said: 'Yell if you need help!' And one of the persons in my class said 'help.' The guy overheard and he came in and shot her," the boy said. "The cop barged into that classroom. The guy shot at the cop. And the cops started shooting.”
I didn't think I could be any more upset with the cops, but holy fuck.
So what this account proves is that there were kids alive while the shooter was in the classroom and the police retreated after being shot at. This also shows that in the 40 minutes he had to himself in there, we have an unknown number of children who might have been saved or could be alive depending on what the order of the shots/kills were. The police literally did just leave the kids in a killbox they couldn't escape from with a shooter.
Waiting periods I thought were shown to work? Like people wait it out calm their bullshit ass down or they get caught doing something else and they don't do any shooting.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
The boy and four others hid under a table that had a tablecloth over it, which may have shielded them from the shooter's view and saved their lives. The boy shared heartbreaking details about what happened in that room.
“When the cops came, the cop said: 'Yell if you need help!' And one of the persons in my class said 'help.' The guy overheard and he came in and shot her," the boy said. "The cop barged into that classroom. The guy shot at the cop. And the cops started shooting.”
I didn't think I could be any more upset with the cops, but holy fuck.
That was in the reporting - but the full context is rage inducing.
Waiting periods I thought were shown to work? Like people wait it out calm their bullshit ass down or they get caught doing something else and they don't do any shooting.
It's hard to say for me if it would have worked here, but bear in mind he bought the guns in March and it's currently May. How long is proposed for these waiting periods? Like I said, in NZ it's roughly one year, would that even remotely fly in the USA?
Also from everything I understand, background checks and red flag laws would not have done anything to stop this guy picking up his weapons and killing kids. Despite my earlier thoughts, it doesn't look like he has a known record of police reports about domestic violence and similar issues - even if he did start everything by shooting his grandmother. So I'm unclear (right now) what could have been done to stop him acquiring guns out of the "palatable to implement for right wing fuckwits" options of background checks or potential red flag laws.
I think this shooting happens regardless of those kind of things.
A waiting period would probably help. He bought both of his assault rifles less than 2 weeks ago.
The actual legislation I expect to see in Texas is banning door locks in schools
Provided these cops aren't visited by the underside of the proverbial bus if this continues to blow up, I fully expect a "no duty to engage" law to come about. But within a day or two they'll come out blaming the parents for distracting them and forcing them to guard the outside of the school instead of responding.
Do you mean a "duty to engage" law? Because no duty to engage is already the law, as far as the courts see it.
With regard to the waiting period, updating the National Firearms Act to include semiautomatic firearms would add an FBI background check, multiple-month waiting period (in the form of processing delays), an excise tax, and slightly onerous paperwork and storage requirements. The law and infrastructure already exist to track things like machine guns, silencers, and short-barreled rifles - the change would add items to that list. Items covered under the NFA are very rarely used in crimes, and possession of a covered but unregistered item (or it being not registered to you) is punishable by 10 years in federal prison.
I've been reluctant to mention this type of thing because it feels so futile - congress won't even pass universal background checks. So why bother bringing it up, you know? All it does is inspire people to say they'd prefer an outright ban, which is fine but also equally irrelevant to any actual outcome.
Doc on
+11
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Like on waiting periods etc, let's not pretend this guy bought his guns yesterday and went on a spree shooting the next day. He would easily have done the same thing with a four week waiting period, which is a number I see bandied about a bit.
He would pass a background check: No criminal history
He would pass a mental health check: No indications of any severe mental health issues
This is wild, the more I think about it. The TX DPS spox is suggesting it’s a normal thing if the version of the story an LEO told immediately after an event is a lie; they might tell a completely different story the next day, and that’s just fine.
fucking useless cops. this is both bullshit and NOT a standard they apply to anyone else.
This is wild, the more I think about it. The TX DPS spox is suggesting it’s a normal thing if the version of the story an LEO told immediately after an event is a lie; they might tell a completely different story the next day, and that’s just fine.
fucking useless cops. this is both bullshit and NOT a standard they apply to anyone else.
It's the reason they negotiate mandatory waits for questioning after an officer shoots someone, too.
I'm not sure about preventing mass shootings, but I know that with suicides there is a famous example of a bridge that a lot of people used to jump to their deaths, then they added a waist high fence and no one else jumped.
Easily jump able fence, but the short period of jumping the first fence made people realise and change their minds.
Waiting periods I thought were shown to work? Like people wait it out calm their bullshit ass down or they get caught doing something else and they don't do any shooting.
It's hard to say for me if it would have worked here, but bear in mind he bought the guns in March and it's currently May. How long is proposed for these waiting periods? Like I said, in NZ it's roughly one year, would that even remotely fly in the USA?
Texas tribune has the guns purchased on 17 of May and 20th of May, not march.
I'm not sure about preventing mass shootings, but I know that with suicides there is a famous example of a bridge that a lot of people used to jump to their deaths, then they added a waist high fence and no one else jumped.
Easily jump able fence, but the short period of jumping the first fence made people realise and change their minds.
Waiting periods I thought were shown to work? Like people wait it out calm their bullshit ass down or they get caught doing something else and they don't do any shooting.
It's hard to say for me if it would have worked here, but bear in mind he bought the guns in March and it's currently May. How long is proposed for these waiting periods? Like I said, in NZ it's roughly one year, would that even remotely fly in the USA?
Texas tribune has the guns purchased on 17 of May and 20th of May, not march.
That must have been me reading too much into an earlier report then. A waiting period here would have made a huge impact because the school was about to go off for holidays like, Friday?
And yes, waiting periods make a massive impact on suicide by firearms indisputably.
This is wild, the more I think about it. The TX DPS spox is suggesting it’s a normal thing if the version of the story an LEO told immediately after an event is a lie; they might tell a completely different story the next day, and that’s just fine.
fucking useless cops. this is both bullshit and NOT a standard they apply to anyone else.
Yeah, imagine the shitfit a prosecutor would throw if a defense attorney suggested that a cop's recollection might be completely different to the actual events.
Or that the entire concept that their story 24 hours after an incident is more reliable than one told immediately after the event.
It's just rampant "Shit, we look bad, how do we spin this?" and everyone getting their stories straight. You know who most often does this? Criminals.
Whoever put forth the idea that the biggest gang in most cities don't just wear gang colors, they wear badges and have the authority of the government, seems like they were onto something.
My brother went and bought the gun he shot himself with same day
It’s fucking bullshit, we could have talked to him or he could have hesitated with a waiting period
But this is Texas YEEEEEEE HAWWWWWW where everything is bigger, even the suicide rates
+20
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited May 2022
Yes, they definitely seem to have been caught out by telling the truth when they realized how that looked. So have changed the story.
They don't easily get away with standing around outside intimidating parents for 40 minutes when someone was actively able to intervene to pursue or attack the gunman.
This is wild, the more I think about it. The TX DPS spox is suggesting it’s a normal thing if the version of the story an LEO told immediately after an event is a lie; they might tell a completely different story the next day, and that’s just fine.
fucking useless cops. this is both bullshit and NOT a standard they apply to anyone else.
It's the reason they negotiate mandatory waits for questioning after an officer shoots someone, too.
As always, if the truth was good for the cops, they'd have that shit on the evening news the day of. The longer they take to tell you what happened, the worse the truth makes them look.
And the reports I saw are this asshole bought his gun on his 18th birthday, which was 9 days ago. Four week waiting period gets us through the school year at least.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
+7
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
The GoFundMe post, originally set up after Irma Garcia's death and later updated, called the teacher "sweet, kind, loving," and added she died protecting her students. "She sacrificed herself protecting the kids in her classroom. She was a hero," that campaign said.
Senate is adjourned until June 6. All 100 of them should resign in shame.
Nah, only 52 of them.
53 at least. Schumer is right up there using this to try and drum up votes.
Votes for gun control? What would you prefer him to be doing?
To clarify, Schumer isn't trying to wrangle votes for gun control. He's saying "vote for us six months from now" which is an unacceptable response.
The fundamental problem of the Democrats is
1) He's not wrong in that nothing can pass without two more solid votes
2) Saying that is enervating to all of us
There's an obvious solution just waiting for someone to take it, but it terrifies Democratic leadership. Just make a moral case against the GOP and the culture of death they have produced. It's why any random Democrat who shows any kind of anger at them goes megaviral.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
+23
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
I’m glad to see some of y’all out of the “numb to this” feeling
We should never accept this as something that “just happens sometimes”
These kids deserved better
It's just all of the other aspects combined. The complete failure of the police response, the fact 40% of his places budget of 10 million goes to police, how heavily armed officers stood outside waving guns at parents while they left this asshole locked in a room with 10 year old kids as a "strategy", the ridiculous trolling rhetoric of the smug right wing assholes who knows dead kids do nothing to change anything and so on. It's like a perfect microcosm of everything that is wrong with America's insane gun laws (or more like lack of them) combined with their ineffective military police state in one mass shooting.
Also from everything I understand, background checks and red flag laws would not have done anything to stop this guy picking up his weapons and killing kids. Despite my earlier thoughts, it doesn't look like he has a known record of police reports about domestic violence and similar issues - even if he did start everything by shooting his grandmother. So I'm unclear (right now) what could have been done to stop him acquiring guns out of the "palatable to implement for right wing fuckwits" options of background checks or potential red flag laws.
I think this shooting happens regardless of those kind of things.
A waiting period would probably help. He bought both of his assault rifles less than 2 weeks ago.
So he just does it X weeks or whatever later? Like, here in NZ to get a bolt action rifle I need to:
1) Get a police check and a mental health check. If I fail either no gun automatically.
2) Have secure weapons lockers and such (drilled into the floor in fact). Police need to investigate, sight and sign it off as okay.
3) I need to pass a gun license check
4) I need to wait one year before I am allowed to buy the weapon, while proving I am doing regular gun safety and similar courses (EG going to an official firing range)
After all of that I can buy and own my weapon. I need to secure that weapon separately from the ammunition and the gun itself, should be non-functional while stored (as an example, a bolt action rifle should not have the bolt in the gun while it's stored) and I cannot carry it openly in public (needs a secure carry case to be taken out such as when going hunting).
I could not buy an AR-15 whatsoever here and would be prosecuted by police for owning one.
How would that work out for America?
Its much easier than that to get a gun in NZ. I don't know who's making you jump through those extra hoops because I don't need to do them. The twelve month delay is not a rule, it's just how long it can take to process the application. It can be very quick depending on where you live and who your firearm officer is. And there's no requirements to prove you're attending courses or clubs. The weakness of the NZ system is that is almost entirely reliant on the initial vetting, one you have you license you have free reign after that.
0
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Also from everything I understand, background checks and red flag laws would not have done anything to stop this guy picking up his weapons and killing kids. Despite my earlier thoughts, it doesn't look like he has a known record of police reports about domestic violence and similar issues - even if he did start everything by shooting his grandmother. So I'm unclear (right now) what could have been done to stop him acquiring guns out of the "palatable to implement for right wing fuckwits" options of background checks or potential red flag laws.
I think this shooting happens regardless of those kind of things.
A waiting period would probably help. He bought both of his assault rifles less than 2 weeks ago.
So he just does it X weeks or whatever later? Like, here in NZ to get a bolt action rifle I need to:
1) Get a police check and a mental health check. If I fail either no gun automatically.
2) Have secure weapons lockers and such (drilled into the floor in fact). Police need to investigate, sight and sign it off as okay.
3) I need to pass a gun license check
4) I need to wait one year before I am allowed to buy the weapon, while proving I am doing regular gun safety and similar courses (EG going to an official firing range)
After all of that I can buy and own my weapon. I need to secure that weapon separately from the ammunition and the gun itself, should be non-functional while stored (as an example, a bolt action rifle should not have the bolt in the gun while it's stored) and I cannot carry it openly in public (needs a secure carry case to be taken out such as when going hunting).
I could not buy an AR-15 whatsoever here and would be prosecuted by police for owning one.
How would that work out for America?
Its much easier than that to get a gun in NZ. I don't know who's making you jump through those extra hoops because I don't need to do them. The twelve month delay is not a rule, it's just how long it can take to process the application. It can be very quick depending on where you live and who your firearm officer is. And there's no requirements to prove you're attending courses or clubs. The weakness of the NZ system is that is almost entirely reliant on the initial vetting, one you have you license you have free reign after that.
This is wild, the more I think about it. The TX DPS spox is suggesting it’s a normal thing if the version of the story an LEO told immediately after an event is a lie; they might tell a completely different story the next day, and that’s just fine.
fucking useless cops. this is both bullshit and NOT a standard they apply to anyone else.
It's the reason they negotiate mandatory waits for questioning after an officer shoots someone, too.
As always, if the truth was good for the cops, they'd have that shit on the evening news the day of. The longer they take to tell you what happened, the worse the truth makes them look.
Speaking of that, tell me you shot a kid without telling me that you shot a kid:
Actually I should say three votes, because I don't trust Chris Coons on any kind of rules vote. The biggest Senate wanker in a body full of Senate wankers.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Legislation seems simple enough to me, make all semi automatics class 3 firearms. Everyone gets a blanket buyback program otherwise they have to go through the same shitload of atf paperwork you need to own an uzi.
This is wild, the more I think about it. The TX DPS spox is suggesting it’s a normal thing if the version of the story an LEO told immediately after an event is a lie; they might tell a completely different story the next day, and that’s just fine.
fucking useless cops. this is both bullshit and NOT a standard they apply to anyone else.
It's the reason they negotiate mandatory waits for questioning after an officer shoots someone, too.
As always, if the truth was good for the cops, they'd have that shit on the evening news the day of. The longer they take to tell you what happened, the worse the truth makes them look.
Speaking of that, tell me you shot a kid without telling me that you shot a kid:
Once freed, she distanced herself from the crowd, jumped the school fence, ran inside the school building and grabbed her two children. The three sprinted out of the school together, she said.
I can't even at this point. The Police now need to be investigated and prosecuted.
A spokesperson for the US Marshals Serviced denied her account — telling the Journal that deputy marshals never cuffed anyone outside the school.
THERE IS VIDEO SHOWING A PARENT WHO IS HANDCUFFED IN PLAIN SIGHT OF THE CAMERA YOU REALITY DENYING PIECES OF HUMAN FUCKING GARBAGE
Legislation seems simple enough to me, make all semi automatics class 3 firearms. Everyone gets a blanket buyback program otherwise they have to go through the same shitload of atf paperwork you need to own an uzi.
Essentially impossible at the federal level unless the SCOTUS reverses itself
+3
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
I now have many open questions about the timeline of events, which the police here keep changing to make themselves look better and now about who was shooting at who when. Was everyone in that classroom killed by Ramos?
Also from everything I understand, background checks and red flag laws would not have done anything to stop this guy picking up his weapons and killing kids. Despite my earlier thoughts, it doesn't look like he has a known record of police reports about domestic violence and similar issues - even if he did start everything by shooting his grandmother. So I'm unclear (right now) what could have been done to stop him acquiring guns out of the "palatable to implement for right wing fuckwits" options of background checks or potential red flag laws.
I think this shooting happens regardless of those kind of things.
A waiting period would probably help. He bought both of his assault rifles less than 2 weeks ago.
The actual legislation I expect to see in Texas is banning door locks in schools
Provided these cops aren't visited by the underside of the proverbial bus if this continues to blow up, I fully expect a "no duty to engage" law to come about. But within a day or two they'll come out blaming the parents for distracting them and forcing them to guard the outside of the school instead of responding.
Do you mean a "duty to engage" law? Because no duty to engage is already the law, as far as the courts see it.
With regard to the waiting period, updating the National Firearms Act to include semiautomatic firearms would add an FBI background check, multiple-month waiting period (in the form of processing delays), an excise tax, and slightly onerous paperwork and storage requirements. The law and infrastructure already exist to track things like machine guns, silencers, and short-barreled rifles - the change would add items to that list. Items covered under the NFA are very rarely used in crimes, and possession of a covered but unregistered item (or it being not registered to you) is punishable by 10 years in federal prison.
I've been reluctant to mention this type of thing because it feels so futile - congress won't even pass universal background checks. So why bother bringing it up, you know? All it does is inspire people to say they'd prefer an outright ban, which is fine but also equally irrelevant to any actual outcome.
Add that whenever there is a mass shooting the applicant has to get crosschecked for ties to the shooter.
If you mandate it as extending the wait time by two days it will just naturally work itself out as never passing due to the frequency of mass shootings.
Posts
- ‘Good guy with a gun’ does not work at all
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WoW
Dear Satan.....
So he just does it X weeks or whatever later? Like, here in NZ to get a bolt action rifle I need to:
1) Get a police check and a mental health check. If I fail either no gun automatically.
2) Have secure weapons lockers and such (drilled into the floor in fact). Police need to investigate, sight and sign it off as okay.
3) I need to pass a gun license check
4) I need to wait one year before I am allowed to buy the weapon, while proving I am doing regular gun safety and similar courses (EG going to an official firing range)
After all of that I can buy and own my weapon. I need to secure that weapon separately from the ammunition and the gun itself, should be non-functional while stored (as an example, a bolt action rifle should not have the bolt in the gun while it's stored) and I cannot carry it openly in public (needs a secure carry case to be taken out such as when going hunting).
I could not buy an AR-15 whatsoever here and would be prosecuted by police for owning one.
How would that work out for America?
So what this account proves is that there were kids alive while the shooter was in the classroom and the police retreated after being shot at. This also shows that in the 40 minutes he had to himself in there, we have an unknown number of children who might have been saved or could be alive depending on what the order of the shots/kills were. The police literally did just leave the kids in a killbox they couldn't escape from with a shooter.
Cowards.
pleasepaypreacher.net
That was in the reporting - but the full context is rage inducing.
It's hard to say for me if it would have worked here, but bear in mind he bought the guns in March and it's currently May. How long is proposed for these waiting periods? Like I said, in NZ it's roughly one year, would that even remotely fly in the USA?
With regard to the waiting period, updating the National Firearms Act to include semiautomatic firearms would add an FBI background check, multiple-month waiting period (in the form of processing delays), an excise tax, and slightly onerous paperwork and storage requirements. The law and infrastructure already exist to track things like machine guns, silencers, and short-barreled rifles - the change would add items to that list. Items covered under the NFA are very rarely used in crimes, and possession of a covered but unregistered item (or it being not registered to you) is punishable by 10 years in federal prison.
I've been reluctant to mention this type of thing because it feels so futile - congress won't even pass universal background checks. So why bother bringing it up, you know? All it does is inspire people to say they'd prefer an outright ban, which is fine but also equally irrelevant to any actual outcome.
He would pass a background check: No criminal history
He would pass a mental health check: No indications of any severe mental health issues
So what could these things do?
UCLA professor/ WaPo screenshot
fucking useless cops. this is both bullshit and NOT a standard they apply to anyone else.
It's the reason they negotiate mandatory waits for questioning after an officer shoots someone, too.
Easily jump able fence, but the short period of jumping the first fence made people realise and change their minds.
Texas tribune has the guns purchased on 17 of May and 20th of May, not march.
pleasepaypreacher.net
I don’t fucking trust it
So yeah this is a waste of everyone’s time
That must have been me reading too much into an earlier report then. A waiting period here would have made a huge impact because the school was about to go off for holidays like, Friday?
And yes, waiting periods make a massive impact on suicide by firearms indisputably.
This is entirely a way to waste Senate time while also deflating any momentum toward actually doing something.
Yeah, imagine the shitfit a prosecutor would throw if a defense attorney suggested that a cop's recollection might be completely different to the actual events.
Or that the entire concept that their story 24 hours after an incident is more reliable than one told immediately after the event.
It's just rampant "Shit, we look bad, how do we spin this?" and everyone getting their stories straight. You know who most often does this? Criminals.
Whoever put forth the idea that the biggest gang in most cities don't just wear gang colors, they wear badges and have the authority of the government, seems like they were onto something.
It’s fucking bullshit, we could have talked to him or he could have hesitated with a waiting period
But this is Texas YEEEEEEE HAWWWWWW where everything is bigger, even the suicide rates
They don't easily get away with standing around outside intimidating parents for 40 minutes when someone was actively able to intervene to pursue or attack the gunman.
As always, if the truth was good for the cops, they'd have that shit on the evening news the day of. The longer they take to tell you what happened, the worse the truth makes them look.
Votes for gun control? What would you prefer him to be doing?
Says it all really. America expects teachers to body block bullets or use themselves to barricade a door - as what happened at Sandy Hook BTW - while right wing dipshits argue Police are heroes for standing around outside waiting for backup.
That's America.
We should never accept this as something that “just happens sometimes”
These kids deserved better
To clarify, Schumer isn't trying to wrangle votes for gun control. He's saying "vote for us six months from now" which is an unacceptable response.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
The fundamental problem of the Democrats is
1) He's not wrong in that nothing can pass without two more solid votes
2) Saying that is enervating to all of us
There's an obvious solution just waiting for someone to take it, but it terrifies Democratic leadership. Just make a moral case against the GOP and the culture of death they have produced. It's why any random Democrat who shows any kind of anger at them goes megaviral.
It's just all of the other aspects combined. The complete failure of the police response, the fact 40% of his places budget of 10 million goes to police, how heavily armed officers stood outside waving guns at parents while they left this asshole locked in a room with 10 year old kids as a "strategy", the ridiculous trolling rhetoric of the smug right wing assholes who knows dead kids do nothing to change anything and so on. It's like a perfect microcosm of everything that is wrong with America's insane gun laws (or more like lack of them) combined with their ineffective military police state in one mass shooting.
It was what I was told last year.
Okay, i thought it was an "it's too soon" thing.
You can't wring blood from a stone etc.
Speaking of that, tell me you shot a kid without telling me that you shot a kid:
I didn't want to think about this over the last couple days, but yeah, that bar is low enough that it's melted into the earth's core by now.
I can't even at this point. The Police now need to be investigated and prosecuted.
THERE IS VIDEO SHOWING A PARENT WHO IS HANDCUFFED IN PLAIN SIGHT OF THE CAMERA YOU REALITY DENYING PIECES OF HUMAN FUCKING GARBAGE
Edit: Man, I just really lost it then.
Essentially impossible at the federal level unless the SCOTUS reverses itself
Add that whenever there is a mass shooting the applicant has to get crosschecked for ties to the shooter.
If you mandate it as extending the wait time by two days it will just naturally work itself out as never passing due to the frequency of mass shootings.