As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

Uvalde Shooting: 19 elementary school children dead, 2 adults

1222325272872

Posts

  • MuzzmuzzMuzzmuzz Registered User regular
    This is proving so much of what we all were saying:

    - ‘Good guy with a gun’ does not work at all
    - Cops are useless
    - The pro-life people don’t give a shit about life after birth

    PreacherthatassemblyguyFencingsaxMr RayjoshofalltradesmrpakuSleepMillNobodySyphonBlueShadowfireelectricitylikesmeAlexandierBloodsheedMagellBigJoeMNetscapeNobeardKetarElvenshaemonikerStabbity StyleSkeithRhesus PositiveRingoDoctorArchzagdrobGONG-00dispatch.oboogedybooTynnanrndmheroYamiB.BlackDragon480jimb213never dieA Kobold's KoboldHavelock2.0MatevmarajiKristmas KthulhuMan in the MistsNitsuaNyysjanFoolOnTheHillBullhead
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited May 27
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    .
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Also from everything I understand, background checks and red flag laws would not have done anything to stop this guy picking up his weapons and killing kids. Despite my earlier thoughts, it doesn't look like he has a known record of police reports about domestic violence and similar issues - even if he did start everything by shooting his grandmother. So I'm unclear (right now) what could have been done to stop him acquiring guns out of the "palatable to implement for right wing fuckwits" options of background checks or potential red flag laws.

    I think this shooting happens regardless of those kind of things.

    A waiting period would probably help. He bought both of his assault rifles less than 2 weeks ago.

    So he just does it X weeks or whatever later? Like, here in NZ to get a bolt action rifle I need to:

    1) Get a police check and a mental health check. If I fail either no gun automatically.

    2) Have secure weapons lockers and such (drilled into the floor in fact). Police need to investigate, sight and sign it off as okay.

    3) I need to pass a gun license check

    4) I need to wait one year before I am allowed to buy the weapon, while proving I am doing regular gun safety and similar courses (EG going to an official firing range)

    After all of that I can buy and own my weapon. I need to secure that weapon separately from the ammunition and the gun itself, should be non-functional while stored (as an example, a bolt action rifle should not have the bolt in the gun while it's stored) and I cannot carry it openly in public (needs a secure carry case to be taken out such as when going hunting).

    I could not buy an AR-15 whatsoever here and would be prosecuted by police for owning one.

    How would that work out for America?
    A local news station has an account from one of the children who survived the attack. Disclaimer that it's positively heart-rending to watch the video.

    This portion, though, stood out:
    The boy and four others hid under a table that had a tablecloth over it, which may have shielded them from the shooter's view and saved their lives. The boy shared heartbreaking details about what happened in that room.

    “When the cops came, the cop said: 'Yell if you need help!' And one of the persons in my class said 'help.' The guy overheard and he came in and shot her," the boy said. "The cop barged into that classroom. The guy shot at the cop. And the cops started shooting.”

    I didn't think I could be any more upset with the cops, but holy fuck.

    So what this account proves is that there were kids alive while the shooter was in the classroom and the police retreated after being shot at. This also shows that in the 40 minutes he had to himself in there, we have an unknown number of children who might have been saved or could be alive depending on what the order of the shots/kills were. The police literally did just leave the kids in a killbox they couldn't escape from with a shooter.

    Cowards.

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
    Kayne Red RobeelectricitylikesmeFencingsaxGnome-InterruptusRhesus PositiveRingoMan in the MistsNitsua
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Waiting periods I thought were shown to work? Like people wait it out calm their bullshit ass down or they get caught doing something else and they don't do any shooting.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
    electricitylikesmeFencingsaxspool32monikeroverride367Gnome-InterruptusRingorndmheronever dieA Kobold's KoboldmarajiNitsua
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    A local news station has an account from one of the children who survived the attack. Disclaimer that it's positively heart-rending to watch the video.

    This portion, though, stood out:
    The boy and four others hid under a table that had a tablecloth over it, which may have shielded them from the shooter's view and saved their lives. The boy shared heartbreaking details about what happened in that room.

    “When the cops came, the cop said: 'Yell if you need help!' And one of the persons in my class said 'help.' The guy overheard and he came in and shot her," the boy said. "The cop barged into that classroom. The guy shot at the cop. And the cops started shooting.”

    I didn't think I could be any more upset with the cops, but holy fuck.

    That was in the reporting - but the full context is rage inducing.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
    PreacherMillelectricitylikesmeFencingsaxmonikerStabbity StyleGnome-InterruptusMatevmarajiMan in the MistsNitsua
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Waiting periods I thought were shown to work? Like people wait it out calm their bullshit ass down or they get caught doing something else and they don't do any shooting.

    It's hard to say for me if it would have worked here, but bear in mind he bought the guns in March and it's currently May. How long is proposed for these waiting periods? Like I said, in NZ it's roughly one year, would that even remotely fly in the USA?

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited May 27
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    .
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Also from everything I understand, background checks and red flag laws would not have done anything to stop this guy picking up his weapons and killing kids. Despite my earlier thoughts, it doesn't look like he has a known record of police reports about domestic violence and similar issues - even if he did start everything by shooting his grandmother. So I'm unclear (right now) what could have been done to stop him acquiring guns out of the "palatable to implement for right wing fuckwits" options of background checks or potential red flag laws.

    I think this shooting happens regardless of those kind of things.

    A waiting period would probably help. He bought both of his assault rifles less than 2 weeks ago.

    Dark_Side wrote: »
    The actual legislation I expect to see in Texas is banning door locks in schools

    Provided these cops aren't visited by the underside of the proverbial bus if this continues to blow up, I fully expect a "no duty to engage" law to come about. But within a day or two they'll come out blaming the parents for distracting them and forcing them to guard the outside of the school instead of responding.

    Do you mean a "duty to engage" law? Because no duty to engage is already the law, as far as the courts see it.

    With regard to the waiting period, updating the National Firearms Act to include semiautomatic firearms would add an FBI background check, multiple-month waiting period (in the form of processing delays), an excise tax, and slightly onerous paperwork and storage requirements. The law and infrastructure already exist to track things like machine guns, silencers, and short-barreled rifles - the change would add items to that list. Items covered under the NFA are very rarely used in crimes, and possession of a covered but unregistered item (or it being not registered to you) is punishable by 10 years in federal prison.

    I've been reluctant to mention this type of thing because it feels so futile - congress won't even pass universal background checks. So why bother bringing it up, you know? All it does is inspire people to say they'd prefer an outright ban, which is fine but also equally irrelevant to any actual outcome.

    Doc on
    BurtletoySummaryJudgmentFencingsaxmonikerJRoseyRingoDiplominatorForarA Kobold's KoboldmarajiKristmas Kthulhu
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    Like on waiting periods etc, let's not pretend this guy bought his guns yesterday and went on a spree shooting the next day. He would easily have done the same thing with a four week waiting period, which is a number I see bandied about a bit.

    He would pass a background check: No criminal history

    He would pass a mental health check: No indications of any severe mental health issues

    So what could these things do?

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • Phoenix-DPhoenix-D Registered User regular


    UCLA professor/ WaPo screenshot
    This is wild, the more I think about it. The TX DPS spox is suggesting it’s a normal thing if the version of the story an LEO told immediately after an event is a lie; they might tell a completely different story the next day, and that’s just fine.

    fucking useless cops. this is both bullshit and NOT a standard they apply to anyone else.

    mrpakuTetraNitroCubanedurandal4532thatassemblyguyelectricitylikesmehonovereFencingsaxElvenshaemonikerMr RayStabbity StyleLabelGnome-InterruptusKetBraboogedybooA Kobold's KoboldHavelock2.0MatevmarajiKristmas KthulhuMan in the MistsBullhead
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »


    UCLA professor/ WaPo screenshot
    This is wild, the more I think about it. The TX DPS spox is suggesting it’s a normal thing if the version of the story an LEO told immediately after an event is a lie; they might tell a completely different story the next day, and that’s just fine.

    fucking useless cops. this is both bullshit and NOT a standard they apply to anyone else.

    It's the reason they negotiate mandatory waits for questioning after an officer shoots someone, too.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
    shrykeSleepknitdanthatassemblyguyelectricitylikesmeNetscapeNobeardCouscousFencingsaxElvenshaemonikeroverride367Stabbity StyleGnome-InterruptusOdinBlackDragon480A Kobold's KoboldHavelock2.0MatevmarajiMan in the Mists
  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    I'm not sure about preventing mass shootings, but I know that with suicides there is a famous example of a bridge that a lot of people used to jump to their deaths, then they added a waist high fence and no one else jumped.

    Easily jump able fence, but the short period of jumping the first fence made people realise and change their minds.
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Waiting periods I thought were shown to work? Like people wait it out calm their bullshit ass down or they get caught doing something else and they don't do any shooting.

    It's hard to say for me if it would have worked here, but bear in mind he bought the guns in March and it's currently May. How long is proposed for these waiting periods? Like I said, in NZ it's roughly one year, would that even remotely fly in the USA?

    Texas tribune has the guns purchased on 17 of May and 20th of May, not march.

    AegerielectricitylikesmeElvenshaemonikerFencingsaxRingoCaptain InertiaboogedybooSimpsonianever dieKristmas Kthulhu
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Yeah I'm pretty sure when you tell one story one day and another one the next day, just about anyone in the whole world knows you're fucking lying.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
    mrpakujungleroomxKayne Red Robethatassemblyguyaltlat55electricitylikesmespool32ElvenshaemonikerFencingsaxDacKetBraRingonever dieA Kobold's KoboldHavelock2.0MatevmarajiKristmas KthulhuMan in the MistsNitsua
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    McConnell has apparently instructed Cornyn to start working on a bipartisan solution to gun violence with Democrats

    I don’t fucking trust it

    mrpakushrykeMarathonjungleroomxPreacherSyphonBlueShadowfirePhoenix-DthatassemblyguyelectricitylikesmeAlexandierBloodsheedBigJoeMNobeardKetarDark Raven XElvenshaeMetzger MeisterDocFencingsaxMr RayStabbity StyleSkeithGnome-InterruptusRhesus Positiveautono-wally, erotibot300DoctorArchzagdrobGONG-00boogedybooForarBigPointyTeethnever dieA Kobold's KoboldHavelock2.0MatevmarajiKristmas KthulhuMan in the MistsNitsuaBullhead
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Sorry to be specific he’s told him to find a “middle ground”

    So yeah this is a waste of everyone’s time

    shrykeMarathonKayne Red Robealtlat55thatassemblyguyelectricitylikesmeBloodsheedBigJoeMNetscapeNobeardKetarA Dabble Of TheloniusElvenshaemonikerMetzger MeisterDocFencingsaxDacStabbity StyleKetBraRhesus Positiveautono-wally, erotibot300DoctorArchzagdrobboogedybooOdinBigPointyTeethnever dieA Kobold's KoboldHavelock2.0MatevmarajiMan in the MistsNitsua
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    I'm not sure about preventing mass shootings, but I know that with suicides there is a famous example of a bridge that a lot of people used to jump to their deaths, then they added a waist high fence and no one else jumped.

    Easily jump able fence, but the short period of jumping the first fence made people realise and change their minds.
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Waiting periods I thought were shown to work? Like people wait it out calm their bullshit ass down or they get caught doing something else and they don't do any shooting.

    It's hard to say for me if it would have worked here, but bear in mind he bought the guns in March and it's currently May. How long is proposed for these waiting periods? Like I said, in NZ it's roughly one year, would that even remotely fly in the USA?

    Texas tribune has the guns purchased on 17 of May and 20th of May, not march.

    That must have been me reading too much into an earlier report then. A waiting period here would have made a huge impact because the school was about to go off for holidays like, Friday?

    And yes, waiting periods make a massive impact on suicide by firearms indisputably.

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
    FencingsaxGnome-InterruptusAntinumericRingodispatch.onever die
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    McConnell has apparently instructed Cornyn to start working on a bipartisan solution to gun violence with Democrats

    I don’t fucking trust it
    Sorry to be specific he’s told him to find a “middle ground”

    So yeah this is a waste of everyone’s time

    This is entirely a way to waste Senate time while also deflating any momentum toward actually doing something.

    AegerijoshofalltradesPreacheraltlat55thatassemblyguyelectricitylikesmeAlexandierNetscapeNobeardDocFencingsaxStabbity StyleLabelElvenshaeGnome-InterruptusKetBraRhesus Positivedispatch.oboogedyboomcdermottBlackDragon480Surfpossumjimb213never dieA Kobold's KoboldHavelock2.0MatevmarajiMan in the Mists
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »
    UCLA professor/ WaPo screenshot
    This is wild, the more I think about it. The TX DPS spox is suggesting it’s a normal thing if the version of the story an LEO told immediately after an event is a lie; they might tell a completely different story the next day, and that’s just fine.

    fucking useless cops. this is both bullshit and NOT a standard they apply to anyone else.

    Yeah, imagine the shitfit a prosecutor would throw if a defense attorney suggested that a cop's recollection might be completely different to the actual events.

    Or that the entire concept that their story 24 hours after an incident is more reliable than one told immediately after the event.

    It's just rampant "Shit, we look bad, how do we spin this?" and everyone getting their stories straight. You know who most often does this? Criminals.

    Whoever put forth the idea that the biggest gang in most cities don't just wear gang colors, they wear badges and have the authority of the government, seems like they were onto something.

    electricitylikesmemonikerFencingsaxGnome-InterruptusmarajiMan in the MistsNitsua
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    My brother went and bought the gun he shot himself with same day

    It’s fucking bullshit, we could have talked to him or he could have hesitated with a waiting period

    But this is Texas YEEEEEEE HAWWWWWW where everything is bigger, even the suicide rates

    Preacherdurandal4532IncenjucarelectricitylikesmemxmarksFencingsaxStabbity StyleLabelElvenshaeGnome-InterruptusAntinumericRingoOneAngryPossumsanstodoBlackDragon480never dieA Kobold's KoboldMatevKristmas KthulhuMan in the Mists
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited May 27
    Yes, they definitely seem to have been caught out by telling the truth when they realized how that looked. So have changed the story.

    They don't easily get away with standing around outside intimidating parents for 40 minutes when someone was actively able to intervene to pursue or attack the gunman.

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
    KelorElvenshaeMatev
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Phoenix-D wrote: »


    UCLA professor/ WaPo screenshot
    This is wild, the more I think about it. The TX DPS spox is suggesting it’s a normal thing if the version of the story an LEO told immediately after an event is a lie; they might tell a completely different story the next day, and that’s just fine.

    fucking useless cops. this is both bullshit and NOT a standard they apply to anyone else.

    It's the reason they negotiate mandatory waits for questioning after an officer shoots someone, too.

    As always, if the truth was good for the cops, they'd have that shit on the evening news the day of. The longer they take to tell you what happened, the worse the truth makes them look.

    Kayne Red RobeNobeardGnizmomonikerFencingsaxLabelElvenshaeGnome-InterruptusRhesus PositivezagdrobYamiB.never dieMatevmarajiMan in the Mists
  • altlat55altlat55 Registered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Senate is adjourned until June 6. All 100 of them should resign in shame.

    Nah, only 52 of them.

    53 at least. Schumer is right up there using this to try and drum up votes.

    Votes for gun control? What would you prefer him to be doing?

    Gnome-InterruptusRingo
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    And the reports I saw are this asshole bought his gun on his 18th birthday, which was 9 days ago. Four week waiting period gets us through the school year at least.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
    PreacherMillBurtletoyFencingsaxzagdrobNitsuaBullhead
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited May 27
    I was reading this article on CNN about the husband of one of the murdered teachers, where I was struck by this quote:
    The GoFundMe post, originally set up after Irma Garcia's death and later updated, called the teacher "sweet, kind, loving," and added she died protecting her students. "She sacrificed herself protecting the kids in her classroom. She was a hero," that campaign said.

    Says it all really. America expects teachers to body block bullets or use themselves to barricade a door - as what happened at Sandy Hook BTW - while right wing dipshits argue Police are heroes for standing around outside waiting for backup.

    That's America.

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
    PreacherMillNobodymrpakuthatassemblyguyelectricitylikesmeNetscapemonikerFencingsaxStabbity StyleElvenshaeGnome-Interruptusdispatch.oboogedyboonever dieA Kobold's KoboldMatevmarajiKristmas KthulhuMan in the MistsNecoNitsua
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    I’m glad to see some of y’all out of the “numb to this” feeling

    We should never accept this as something that “just happens sometimes”

    These kids deserved better

    DocmrpakuFencingsaxKetBraMan in the MistsNitsua
  • knitdanknitdan Registered User regular
    altlat55 wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Senate is adjourned until June 6. All 100 of them should resign in shame.

    Nah, only 52 of them.

    53 at least. Schumer is right up there using this to try and drum up votes.

    Votes for gun control? What would you prefer him to be doing?

    To clarify, Schumer isn't trying to wrangle votes for gun control. He's saying "vote for us six months from now" which is an unacceptable response.

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
    Shadowfirealtlat55TetraNitroCubaneAlexandiernever dieMatevMan in the MistsNitsua
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited May 27
    knitdan wrote: »
    altlat55 wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Senate is adjourned until June 6. All 100 of them should resign in shame.

    Nah, only 52 of them.

    53 at least. Schumer is right up there using this to try and drum up votes.

    Votes for gun control? What would you prefer him to be doing?

    To clarify, Schumer isn't trying to wrangle votes for gun control. He's saying "vote for us six months from now" which is an unacceptable response.

    The fundamental problem of the Democrats is

    1) He's not wrong in that nothing can pass without two more solid votes
    2) Saying that is enervating to all of us

    There's an obvious solution just waiting for someone to take it, but it terrifies Democratic leadership. Just make a moral case against the GOP and the culture of death they have produced. It's why any random Democrat who shows any kind of anger at them goes megaviral.

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
    ShadowfireMillshrykeelectricitylikesmeBigJoeMjoshofalltradesNobeardFencingsaxMr RayStabbity StyleLabelElvenshaeGnome-InterruptusRingoSyphonBluezagdrobDoctorArchboogedybooDiplominatornever dieA Kobold's KoboldmarajiKristmas Kthulhu
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited May 27
    I’m glad to see some of y’all out of the “numb to this” feeling

    We should never accept this as something that “just happens sometimes”

    These kids deserved better

    It's just all of the other aspects combined. The complete failure of the police response, the fact 40% of his places budget of 10 million goes to police, how heavily armed officers stood outside waving guns at parents while they left this asshole locked in a room with 10 year old kids as a "strategy", the ridiculous trolling rhetoric of the smug right wing assholes who knows dead kids do nothing to change anything and so on. It's like a perfect microcosm of everything that is wrong with America's insane gun laws (or more like lack of them) combined with their ineffective military police state in one mass shooting.

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
    Fencingsax
  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Registered User regular
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    .
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Also from everything I understand, background checks and red flag laws would not have done anything to stop this guy picking up his weapons and killing kids. Despite my earlier thoughts, it doesn't look like he has a known record of police reports about domestic violence and similar issues - even if he did start everything by shooting his grandmother. So I'm unclear (right now) what could have been done to stop him acquiring guns out of the "palatable to implement for right wing fuckwits" options of background checks or potential red flag laws.

    I think this shooting happens regardless of those kind of things.

    A waiting period would probably help. He bought both of his assault rifles less than 2 weeks ago.

    So he just does it X weeks or whatever later? Like, here in NZ to get a bolt action rifle I need to:

    1) Get a police check and a mental health check. If I fail either no gun automatically.

    2) Have secure weapons lockers and such (drilled into the floor in fact). Police need to investigate, sight and sign it off as okay.

    3) I need to pass a gun license check

    4) I need to wait one year before I am allowed to buy the weapon, while proving I am doing regular gun safety and similar courses (EG going to an official firing range)

    After all of that I can buy and own my weapon. I need to secure that weapon separately from the ammunition and the gun itself, should be non-functional while stored (as an example, a bolt action rifle should not have the bolt in the gun while it's stored) and I cannot carry it openly in public (needs a secure carry case to be taken out such as when going hunting).

    I could not buy an AR-15 whatsoever here and would be prosecuted by police for owning one.

    How would that work out for America?
    Its much easier than that to get a gun in NZ. I don't know who's making you jump through those extra hoops because I don't need to do them. The twelve month delay is not a rule, it's just how long it can take to process the application. It can be very quick depending on where you live and who your firearm officer is. And there's no requirements to prove you're attending courses or clubs. The weakness of the NZ system is that is almost entirely reliant on the initial vetting, one you have you license you have free reign after that.

  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    Gvzbgul wrote: »
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    .
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Also from everything I understand, background checks and red flag laws would not have done anything to stop this guy picking up his weapons and killing kids. Despite my earlier thoughts, it doesn't look like he has a known record of police reports about domestic violence and similar issues - even if he did start everything by shooting his grandmother. So I'm unclear (right now) what could have been done to stop him acquiring guns out of the "palatable to implement for right wing fuckwits" options of background checks or potential red flag laws.

    I think this shooting happens regardless of those kind of things.

    A waiting period would probably help. He bought both of his assault rifles less than 2 weeks ago.

    So he just does it X weeks or whatever later? Like, here in NZ to get a bolt action rifle I need to:

    1) Get a police check and a mental health check. If I fail either no gun automatically.

    2) Have secure weapons lockers and such (drilled into the floor in fact). Police need to investigate, sight and sign it off as okay.

    3) I need to pass a gun license check

    4) I need to wait one year before I am allowed to buy the weapon, while proving I am doing regular gun safety and similar courses (EG going to an official firing range)

    After all of that I can buy and own my weapon. I need to secure that weapon separately from the ammunition and the gun itself, should be non-functional while stored (as an example, a bolt action rifle should not have the bolt in the gun while it's stored) and I cannot carry it openly in public (needs a secure carry case to be taken out such as when going hunting).

    I could not buy an AR-15 whatsoever here and would be prosecuted by police for owning one.

    How would that work out for America?
    Its much easier than that to get a gun in NZ. I don't know who's making you jump through those extra hoops because I don't need to do them. The twelve month delay is not a rule, it's just how long it can take to process the application. It can be very quick depending on where you live and who your firearm officer is. And there's no requirements to prove you're attending courses or clubs. The weakness of the NZ system is that is almost entirely reliant on the initial vetting, one you have you license you have free reign after that.

    It was what I was told last year.

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • altlat55altlat55 Registered User regular
    edited May 27
    knitdan wrote: »
    altlat55 wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Senate is adjourned until June 6. All 100 of them should resign in shame.

    Nah, only 52 of them.

    53 at least. Schumer is right up there using this to try and drum up votes.

    Votes for gun control? What would you prefer him to be doing?

    To clarify, Schumer isn't trying to wrangle votes for gun control. He's saying "vote for us six months from now" which is an unacceptable response.

    Okay, i thought it was an "it's too soon" thing.

    altlat55 on
    maraji
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    altlat55 wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Senate is adjourned until June 6. All 100 of them should resign in shame.

    Nah, only 52 of them.

    53 at least. Schumer is right up there using this to try and drum up votes.

    Votes for gun control? What would you prefer him to be doing?

    To clarify, Schumer isn't trying to wrangle votes for gun control. He's saying "vote for us six months from now" which is an unacceptable response.

    You can't wring blood from a stone etc.

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »


    UCLA professor/ WaPo screenshot
    This is wild, the more I think about it. The TX DPS spox is suggesting it’s a normal thing if the version of the story an LEO told immediately after an event is a lie; they might tell a completely different story the next day, and that’s just fine.

    fucking useless cops. this is both bullshit and NOT a standard they apply to anyone else.

    It's the reason they negotiate mandatory waits for questioning after an officer shoots someone, too.

    As always, if the truth was good for the cops, they'd have that shit on the evening news the day of. The longer they take to tell you what happened, the worse the truth makes them look.

    Speaking of that, tell me you shot a kid without telling me that you shot a kid:

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
    AegeriknitdanGvzbgulDarkPrimusNobeardDark Raven XA Dabble Of TheloniusmonikerStabbity StyleFencingsaxLabelMr RayElvenshaeGnome-InterruptusKetBraRhesus PositivePreacherEtiowsaRingozagdrobGONG-00dispatch.oKayne Red RobeDoctorArchJohnny ChopsockyBlackDragon480A Kobold's KoboldHavelock2.0MatevmarajiKristmas KthulhuMan in the MistsNyysjanFoolOnTheHillBullhead
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Actually I should say three votes, because I don't trust Chris Coons on any kind of rules vote. The biggest Senate wanker in a body full of Senate wankers.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
    moniker
  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Legislation seems simple enough to me, make all semi automatics class 3 firearms. Everyone gets a blanket buyback program otherwise they have to go through the same shitload of atf paperwork you need to own an uzi.

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
    Help me Marie Kondo my life and buy my old stuff
    electricitylikesmeDocAiouamonikerBlackDragon480never diemarajiKristmas KthulhuMan in the Mists
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Phoenix-D wrote: »


    UCLA professor/ WaPo screenshot
    This is wild, the more I think about it. The TX DPS spox is suggesting it’s a normal thing if the version of the story an LEO told immediately after an event is a lie; they might tell a completely different story the next day, and that’s just fine.

    fucking useless cops. this is both bullshit and NOT a standard they apply to anyone else.

    It's the reason they negotiate mandatory waits for questioning after an officer shoots someone, too.

    As always, if the truth was good for the cops, they'd have that shit on the evening news the day of. The longer they take to tell you what happened, the worse the truth makes them look.

    Speaking of that, tell me you shot a kid without telling me that you shot a kid:


    I didn't want to think about this over the last couple days, but yeah, that bar is low enough that it's melted into the earth's core by now.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
    electricitylikesmethatassemblyguymonikerFencingsaxPreacherAntinumericRingoHavelock2.0Man in the MistsBullhead
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    edited May 27
    So not only are the bully boy cops outside busily pepper spraying, tazing and arresting parents, they couldn't even keep the perimeter secure anyway as they are incompetent:
    Once freed, she distanced herself from the crowd, jumped the school fence, ran inside the school building and grabbed her two children. The three sprinted out of the school together, she said.

    I can't even at this point. The Police now need to be investigated and prosecuted.
    A spokesperson for the US Marshals Serviced denied her account — telling the Journal that deputy marshals never cuffed anyone outside the school.

    THERE IS VIDEO SHOWING A PARENT WHO IS HANDCUFFED IN PLAIN SIGHT OF THE CAMERA YOU REALITY DENYING PIECES OF HUMAN FUCKING GARBAGE

    Edit: Man, I just really lost it then.

    Aegeri on
    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
    ShadowfireelectricitylikesmeGiggles_FunsworthDark Raven XmonikerStabbity StyleFencingsaxMr RayElvenshaeGnome-InterruptusRhesus Positiveautono-wally, erotibot300RingoKayne Red RobeYamiB.BlackDragon480Kruitenever dieA Kobold's KoboldHavelock2.0MatevmarajiMan in the MistsBullhead
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    "No no, that was the police, not the marshals. Technically correct and all that."

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
    monikerPreacherschuss
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    My shirt saying "I didn't kill any kids" is sure raising a lot of questions that are answered by my shirt.

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
    DocmonikerBurtletoyoverride367Stabbity StyleFencingsaxLabelElvenshaeGnome-InterruptusKetBraRhesus PositivePreacherShadowfireEvermournRingozagdrobAegisKayne Red Robeshrykesilence1186A Kobold's KoboldHavelock2.0Crippl3EinzelmarajiKristmas KthulhuMan in the MistsNitsuaNyysjan
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Legislation seems simple enough to me, make all semi automatics class 3 firearms. Everyone gets a blanket buyback program otherwise they have to go through the same shitload of atf paperwork you need to own an uzi.

    Essentially impossible at the federal level unless the SCOTUS reverses itself

    DoodmannFencingsaxPreacher
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    I now have many open questions about the timeline of events, which the police here keep changing to make themselves look better and now about who was shooting at who when. Was everyone in that classroom killed by Ramos?

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
    IncenjucarNobeardmonikerFencingsaxPreacherShadowfireshrykeMan in the Mists
  • KelorKelor Registered User regular
    Doc wrote: »
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    .
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Also from everything I understand, background checks and red flag laws would not have done anything to stop this guy picking up his weapons and killing kids. Despite my earlier thoughts, it doesn't look like he has a known record of police reports about domestic violence and similar issues - even if he did start everything by shooting his grandmother. So I'm unclear (right now) what could have been done to stop him acquiring guns out of the "palatable to implement for right wing fuckwits" options of background checks or potential red flag laws.

    I think this shooting happens regardless of those kind of things.

    A waiting period would probably help. He bought both of his assault rifles less than 2 weeks ago.

    Dark_Side wrote: »
    The actual legislation I expect to see in Texas is banning door locks in schools

    Provided these cops aren't visited by the underside of the proverbial bus if this continues to blow up, I fully expect a "no duty to engage" law to come about. But within a day or two they'll come out blaming the parents for distracting them and forcing them to guard the outside of the school instead of responding.

    Do you mean a "duty to engage" law? Because no duty to engage is already the law, as far as the courts see it.

    With regard to the waiting period, updating the National Firearms Act to include semiautomatic firearms would add an FBI background check, multiple-month waiting period (in the form of processing delays), an excise tax, and slightly onerous paperwork and storage requirements. The law and infrastructure already exist to track things like machine guns, silencers, and short-barreled rifles - the change would add items to that list. Items covered under the NFA are very rarely used in crimes, and possession of a covered but unregistered item (or it being not registered to you) is punishable by 10 years in federal prison.

    I've been reluctant to mention this type of thing because it feels so futile - congress won't even pass universal background checks. So why bother bringing it up, you know? All it does is inspire people to say they'd prefer an outright ban, which is fine but also equally irrelevant to any actual outcome.

    Add that whenever there is a mass shooting the applicant has to get crosschecked for ties to the shooter.

    If you mandate it as extending the wait time by two days it will just naturally work itself out as never passing due to the frequency of mass shootings.

    PreacherRingomaraji
Sign In or Register to comment.