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Uvalde Shooting: 19 elementary school children dead, 2 adults

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  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    That has to be at least $1000 of ammo and I wouldn’t be surprised if the magazines themselves were 2 or 3 hundred dollars.

    I can’t imagine like a bag or something that could hold 50 30 round mags and still be reasonably carriable by a normal human.

    Like typical loadout for a infantry soldier is 6 magazines (though they also tend to carry about 30-50lbs of other misc. stuff too).

    Dark_SideGaddez
  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    edited May 27
    I can’t imagine like a bag or something that could hold 50 30 round mags and still be reasonably carriable by a normal human.

    Unless he stashed ammunition in the school, there's basically no way he humps all that from the crashed truck into the school without getting got.

    Edit: Google says a full 30 round mag weighs about 1 lb. So that's 50 lbs of weight - it's doable, but no way he's moving quickly out of the truck with a 50 lb bag of feed on his back. Especially if he already tactical gear on.

    Dark_Side on
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  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    Ballistics is an actual science, right? It’s not bullshit like bite marks, right?

    I'm not saying we are going to have an autocratic dystopia, but things keep happening that look like they come from an autocratic dystopia.
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Ballistics is an actual science, right? It’s not bullshit like bite marks, right?

    Its real but what you see it represented as on TV often isnt, which is how a lot of criminology goes.

    Double fun when its bullshit but still admissable in court anyway.

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Dark_Side wrote: »
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    Monwyn wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Tox wrote: »
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    I am now suspicious that some cop did charge in but instead of shooting the gunman he shot and killed a couple kids and that’s why the outside cops were so adamant on keeping anyone else from getting in, including parents and other departments.



    NBC News Correspondent NEW: Texas law enforcement officials at a press conference say they believe that all the children that were shot and killed in Uvalde, TX were shot by Salvador Ramos and not anyone else [i.e. law enforcement].

    Yeah that's uh...that's exactly what happened

    *58 magazines* found at the school.

    18-year-old bought 1,657 bullets.

    Those are definitely a lot of cop magazines. I don't even know how you carry that many mags unless you just have a loose sack of them.

    Steven Dennis is a reporter for Bloomberg, Robert Evans is a reporter for BellingCat and a podcaster.

    The cops murdered children that day

    Wait. Hold on.

    I'm supposed to believe this kid was wandering around with 20 KG's (or 45 lbs) of ammo Plus whatever the the magazines weigh (of which he had to have had at least 52 if he was using a 30 round mag)?

    It is literally impossible to believe this kid managed to source a thousand rounds of 5.56 in a month without stealing it from someone else that was stockpiling. Like the ammo just isn't there to buy.

    He might have also bought it from someone else that was stockpiling. It's Texas, so I assume that even if there's a retail shortage there probably isn't a shortage of individuals who've had a pile of it sitting around since whenever.

    Yeah, but if you're hoarding ammo AND you know there's a massive pandemic shortage, who is going to sell that amount of rounds to an unstable 18 year old kid? Especially one working off of a Wendy's paycheck.

    How many gun shows are there each week in Texas?

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  • Snake GandhiSnake Gandhi Des Moines, IARegistered User regular
    That has to be at least $1000 of ammo and I wouldn’t be surprised if the magazines themselves were 2 or 3 hundred dollars.

    I can’t imagine like a bag or something that could hold 50 30 round mags and still be reasonably carriable by a normal human.

    Like typical loadout for a infantry soldier is 6 magazines (though they also tend to carry about 30-50lbs of other misc. stuff too).
    I have a bag designed to hold AR mags. It holds 10 of them, and fully loaded it's weight is significant.

    I can't imagine carrying 5 of those and a rifle and doing a lot of running around. So something is off somewhere.

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Dark_Side wrote: »
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    Monwyn wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Tox wrote: »
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    I am now suspicious that some cop did charge in but instead of shooting the gunman he shot and killed a couple kids and that’s why the outside cops were so adamant on keeping anyone else from getting in, including parents and other departments.



    NBC News Correspondent NEW: Texas law enforcement officials at a press conference say they believe that all the children that were shot and killed in Uvalde, TX were shot by Salvador Ramos and not anyone else [i.e. law enforcement].

    Yeah that's uh...that's exactly what happened

    *58 magazines* found at the school.

    18-year-old bought 1,657 bullets.

    Those are definitely a lot of cop magazines. I don't even know how you carry that many mags unless you just have a loose sack of them.

    Steven Dennis is a reporter for Bloomberg, Robert Evans is a reporter for BellingCat and a podcaster.

    The cops murdered children that day

    Wait. Hold on.

    I'm supposed to believe this kid was wandering around with 20 KG's (or 45 lbs) of ammo Plus whatever the the magazines weigh (of which he had to have had at least 52 if he was using a 30 round mag)?

    It is literally impossible to believe this kid managed to source a thousand rounds of 5.56 in a month without stealing it from someone else that was stockpiling. Like the ammo just isn't there to buy.

    He might have also bought it from someone else that was stockpiling. It's Texas, so I assume that even if there's a retail shortage there probably isn't a shortage of individuals who've had a pile of it sitting around since whenever.

    Yeah, but if you're hoarding ammo AND you know there's a massive pandemic shortage, who is going to sell that amount of rounds to an unstable 18 year old kid? Especially one working off of a Wendy's paycheck.

    It took me like, 30 seconds on google to find a place that was selling 5.56 NATO in groups 200 sso him *getting* it isn't the confusing part.

    My point of confusion is that he was able to walk around with the equivelant munitions of 8 US infantrymen.

    Like, even if this kid is jacked and able to move around easily with 45 pounds of ammo your average backpack is going to tear itself apart from the sheer mass you're trying to put into it.

    So either the police are wildly over estimating how much ammo he had (and fired for that matter) OR shit was crazy with the ammount of ammo that was fired and it couldn't have all been by him since there would be a lot more people dead even if he was a shitty shot.

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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    edited May 27
    You can afford a lot of stuff when you dont plan to live long

    Styrofoam Sammich on
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  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    edited May 27
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Ballistics is an actual science, right? It’s not bullshit like bite marks, right?

    Its real but what you see it represented as on TV often isnt, which is how a lot of criminology goes.

    Double fun when its bullshit but still admissable in court anyway.

    https://www.oklahoma-criminal-defense.com/media/ballistic-evidence-forensic-science-or-junk-science

    Some information about it and the limitations of it as a discipline

    Re: the magazines, like the other tweet said, it’s probably some of the authorities’ left there as well, as your Occam’s razor

    Lanz on
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  • AbbalahAbbalah Registered User regular
    Dark_Side wrote: »
    I can’t imagine like a bag or something that could hold 50 30 round mags and still be reasonably carriable by a normal human.

    Unless he stashed ammunition in the school, there's basically no way he humps all that from the crashed truck into the school without getting got.

    Yeah I think that’s the point being made - the implication is that most of those magazines aren’t his, they’re from the cops, which in turn could imply that there was a lot more shooting inside the school than the cops are saying there was.

    And if there was more shooting inside that they’re saying, the next question to ask is “why would the cops engage the shooter and then claim that they didn’t when they’re taking so much shit precisely for not doing that” and the list of plausible answers to that question is pretty short and definitely includes “they fucked up and shot a kid and they’re trying to cover their asses” somewhere near the top.

    Who knows, it’s not enough to draw any kind of real conclusion from, it’s possible that they’re including a bunch of magazines they found on the property outside from when he was just firing at the building for a while, but I’m also not inclined to think that these ambulatory uniformed pustules have earned the benefit of the doubt thus far.

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  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    At this point it’s damn clear there needs to be a federal investigation, and the local authorities have to step the fuck out of the way

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  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against Russian warships) Registered User regular
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Ballistics is an actual science, right? It’s not bullshit like bite marks, right?

    It's all snake oil and voodoo, completely unreliable.*

    *The 'expert' opinions that will be voiced as soon as any of it in any way contradicts law enfourcement's attempt to create a narrative.

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  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited May 27
    I have zero doubt that if the average fire crew was there the firemen would have run in with axes and wtf ever they could find and try to help, despite the guy having a gun

    override367 on
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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    I have zero doubt that if the average fire crew was there the firemen would have run in with axes and wtf ever they could find and try to help, despite the guy having a gun

    Almost any decent person would, unfortunately they sent cops instead

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  • AbsoluteZeroAbsoluteZero The new film by Quentin Koopantino Registered User regular
    Wasn't there a case or something where it was determined police have no duty to act?

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  • ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    Dark_Side wrote: »
    So, technically he should have been dead before he entered the building.

    So it's really starting to look like they bungled the initial stop/crash so badly that they lost him in a school, and then stormed in guns ablaze, accidentally shot some of the kids, panicked, locked off the scene, and tried to manufacture a story that he was taking hostages - hence the mentions of waiting for hostage negotiators. Sadly it would totally explain the hour delay.

    Yup this is where I'm at now. One or more of the bullets recovered from a victim will absolutely match one of the LEOs weapons.

    Them cops killed kids that day. Not just tacitly or implicitly. They actually fired the rounds that killed one or more of those children.

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Lanz wrote: »
    At this point it’s damn clear there needs to be a federal investigation, and the local authorities have to step the fuck out of the way

    At this point there is serious grounds for firing pretty much the whole department at a minimum; I imagine there were officers not involved in this, but the simple fact is we are looking at gross incompetence and/or dereliction of duty that absolutely needs an outside investigation by from a higher authority.

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  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    State wide regulations are largely useless since, excepting like Hawaii, it's not like there's a custom check at the state border.

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  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited May 27
    Wasn't there a case or something where it was determined police have no duty to act?

    Several. Going back decades. As a general rule, police don’t have any duty to act to protect individuals, their duty is to the public at large. Meaning they can’t be held liable for individual failures in protecting people from individual crimes, even if the dereliction of duty is pretty obvious.

    Edit: Specifically you’re looking for Warren v DC, Gonzalez v Castle Rock, and…another one.

    mcdermott on
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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Gundi wrote: »
    State wide regulations are largely useless since, excepting like Hawaii, it's not like there's a custom check at the state border.

    Well not 100% useless as it can slow down local shit bags (slow down obviously not stop) but without overall federal regulation you'll continue to have the chicago problem

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • HakkekageHakkekage Space Whore Academy summa cum laudeRegistered User regular
    I finally saw the story about the child who kept calling 911 and the immense tragedy and helplessness of it all finally hit me

    God, what a horrible world we have created

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  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited May 27
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    I am now suspicious that some cop did charge in but instead of shooting the gunman he shot and killed a couple kids and that’s why the outside cops were so adamant on keeping anyone else from getting in, including parents and other departments.



    NBC News Correspondent NEW: Texas law enforcement officials at a press conference say they believe that all the children that were shot and killed in Uvalde, TX were shot by Salvador Ramos and not anyone else [i.e. law enforcement].

    Yeah that's uh...that's exactly what happened

    Why the fuck are they clarifying this

    (The answer is they 100% shot someone on accident. Is that why they didn't want to go in???)

    jungleroomx on
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  • ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    OH GOOD
    Slinger Middle School on lockdown; police at school https://t.co/RS4R7VOu5G
    #BREAKING: Law Enforcement Officers responded to Slinger Middle School to a report of a student with a gun. A suspect has been taken into custody. There are no injuries. No gun has been located but the school remains on lockdown while a search of the school is conducted.
    Gerron Jordan reports for WISN12; Steve Hofstetter is a comedian who excels at counter-heckling (added for catharsis)
    A kid at Slinger Middle School yelled that he had a gun as a "prank".

    That student doesn't realize how much danger he put himself in. If cops believed he had a gun, dozens of them could have gathered around the school for an hour and done absolutely nothing.

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  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Gundi wrote: »
    State wide regulations are largely useless since, excepting like Hawaii, it's not like there's a custom check at the state border.

    Well not 100% useless as it can slow down local shit bags (slow down obviously not stop) but without overall federal regulation you'll continue to have the chicago problem

    With real federal tracking and enforcement it could be much harder. Make straw buying and selling a real criminal risk suddenly guns from out of state get a lot more expensive

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  • ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    I am now suspicious that some cop did charge in but instead of shooting the gunman he shot and killed a couple kids and that’s why the outside cops were so adamant on keeping anyone else from getting in, including parents and other departments.



    NBC News Correspondent NEW: Texas law enforcement officials at a press conference say they believe that all the children that were shot and killed in Uvalde, TX were shot by Salvador Ramos and not anyone else [i.e. law enforcement].

    Yeah that's uh...that's exactly what happened

    Why the fuck are they clarifying this

    (The answer is they 100% shot someone on accident. Is that why they didn't want to go in???)

    Because they killed some of those kids and they're trying to lie their way out of it

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  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Ballistics is an actual science, right? It’s not bullshit like bite marks, right?

    Its real but what you see it represented as on TV often isnt, which is how a lot of criminology goes.

    Double fun when its bullshit but still admissable in court anyway.

    That’s what I figured. I know computer mock ups and pinpoint precision are impossible, but I hope that some useful knowledge can be gleaned. I’m trying to remain grounded with my suspicions. These cops have already proven to be liars and their current story just does not line up, but I don’t want to jump to conclusions.

    I'm not saying we are going to have an autocratic dystopia, but things keep happening that look like they come from an autocratic dystopia.
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Lanz wrote: »
    At this point it’s damn clear there needs to be a federal investigation, and the local authorities have to step the fuck out of the way
    What are the actual requirements for that? Can someone just decide to make it a federal investigation, or are there certain criteria they have to meet?
    Can someone high enough up the chain just say 'okay, these people have fucked it up in every possible direction, get someone else down there right now'?

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    At this point it’s damn clear there needs to be a federal investigation, and the local authorities have to step the fuck out of the way
    What are the actual requirements for that? Can someone just decide to make it a federal investigation, or are there certain criteria they have to meet?
    Can someone high enough up the chain just say 'okay, these people have fucked it up in every possible direction, get someone else down there right now'?

    I hate to play friendly to the border patrol, but interference with federal agents?

    I dunno, I'm just an idiot who wants to see a lot of asses nailed to the wall.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I'm sure if someone wants to be an asshole they can find all sorts of things to bring in the feds on.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    At this point it’s damn clear there needs to be a federal investigation, and the local authorities have to step the fuck out of the way
    What are the actual requirements for that? Can someone just decide to make it a federal investigation, or are there certain criteria they have to meet?
    Can someone high enough up the chain just say 'okay, these people have fucked it up in every possible direction, get someone else down there right now'?

    I hate to play friendly to the border patrol, but interference with federal agents?

    I dunno, I'm just an idiot who wants to see a lot of asses nailed to the wall.

    That’s the thing that really sticks out to me. Bunch of small town cops turn out to be cowardly blowhards? Awful, but highly plausible and not suspicious. But them keeping out a separate group of LEOs who are equipped to handle this kind of situation cannot be explained by cowardice on the local cops.

    I'm not saying we are going to have an autocratic dystopia, but things keep happening that look like they come from an autocratic dystopia.
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  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    Even if those cops had nothing but their bare hands, I would still have expected them to call for backup, then run in the school and try to tackle the shooter.

    Those were kids in there. If nothing else, you buy them some time.

    The response of local law enforcement is literally insane. For over 14 years it has been considered standard operating procedure in a mass shooting (sucks that us Americans have to have an S.O.P. for mass shootings) for law enforcement to put killing/neutralizing an active shooter as the number one priority above anything else.

    They aren't supposed to wait for back up, they aren't supposed to prioritize evacuating people out of the area, they aren't supposed to provide medical attention or cordon off the scene, they aren't supposed to do literally anything other than hunt down the shooter until they make sure said shooter is physically incapable of firing their weapon anymore. This has been the playbook, that everyone fucking knows, that certainly every cop knows, for over a decade. Active shooter drills are like, the singularly most common thing cops tend to actually get training for.

    Fuck, even if turns out they did accidentally shoot a child, their priority is still even in that situation to disable the shooter.

    They could fucking hear the guy shooting. They could fucking hear the kids screaming. I can understand making a bad judgement call in a split second but not for a whole fucking hour. Listening. And there were three different departs of law enforcement there and except for the two initial cops who actually did go in there and got shot, every single one of them made the worst possible call they could make. For an hour. Listening to kids getting murdered within earshot of their parents.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    At this point it’s damn clear there needs to be a federal investigation, and the local authorities have to step the fuck out of the way
    What are the actual requirements for that? Can someone just decide to make it a federal investigation, or are there certain criteria they have to meet?
    Can someone high enough up the chain just say 'okay, these people have fucked it up in every possible direction, get someone else down there right now'?

    I hate to play friendly to the border patrol, but interference with federal agents?

    I dunno, I'm just an idiot who wants to see a lot of asses nailed to the wall.

    That’s the thing that really sticks out to me. Bunch of small town cops turn out to be cowardly blowhards? Awful, but highly plausible and not suspicious. But them keeping out a separate group of LEOs who are equipped to handle this kind of situation cannot be explained by cowardice on the local cops.

    I could fully buy dick swinging keeps out the feds. Even Border Patrol who are not exactly high on my "good" side of federal law enforcement would probably still default to the local pd if they claimed they had it under control for at least a little bit. The question is of course what happened that changed them from waiting by to going in.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited May 27
    Lanz wrote: »
    At this point it’s damn clear there needs to be a federal investigation, and the local authorities have to step the fuck out of the way

    Biden already said he wasn’t calling for one cause he trusts the cops

    Though I could see that changing as this gets sillier every other hour

    Captain Inertia on
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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    edited May 27
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    Lanz wrote: »
    At this point it’s damn clear there needs to be a federal investigation, and the local authorities have to step the fuck out of the way
    What are the actual requirements for that? Can someone just decide to make it a federal investigation, or are there certain criteria they have to meet?
    Can someone high enough up the chain just say 'okay, these people have fucked it up in every possible direction, get someone else down there right now'?

    I hate to play friendly to the border patrol, but interference with federal agents?

    I dunno, I'm just an idiot who wants to see a lot of asses nailed to the wall.

    That’s the thing that really sticks out to me. Bunch of small town cops turn out to be cowardly blowhards? Awful, but highly plausible and not suspicious. But them keeping out a separate group of LEOs who are equipped to handle this kind of situation cannot be explained by cowardice on the local cops.

    Simplest explanation? Jurisdictional dick waving.

    Gaddez on
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  • Big DookieBig Dookie Smells great! Houston, TXRegistered User regular
    Abbott’s press conference today was interrupted again today, this time by State Senator Roland Gutierrez.



    I hope this keeps happening again and again to these goddamn ghouls. They should never be able to leave their house again without being ridiculed and called out for their bullshit.

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  • MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    Monwyn wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Tox wrote: »
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    I am now suspicious that some cop did charge in but instead of shooting the gunman he shot and killed a couple kids and that’s why the outside cops were so adamant on keeping anyone else from getting in, including parents and other departments.



    NBC News Correspondent NEW: Texas law enforcement officials at a press conference say they believe that all the children that were shot and killed in Uvalde, TX were shot by Salvador Ramos and not anyone else [i.e. law enforcement].

    Yeah that's uh...that's exactly what happened

    *58 magazines* found at the school.

    18-year-old bought 1,657 bullets.

    Those are definitely a lot of cop magazines. I don't even know how you carry that many mags unless you just have a loose sack of them.

    Steven Dennis is a reporter for Bloomberg, Robert Evans is a reporter for BellingCat and a podcaster.

    The cops murdered children that day

    Wait. Hold on.

    I'm supposed to believe this kid was wandering around with 20 KG's (or 45 lbs) of ammo Plus whatever the the magazines weigh (of which he had to have had at least 52 if he was using a 30 round mag)?

    It is literally impossible to believe this kid managed to source a thousand rounds of 5.56 in a month without stealing it from someone else that was stockpiling. Like the ammo just isn't there to buy.

    He might have also bought it from someone else that was stockpiling. It's Texas, so I assume that even if there's a retail shortage there probably isn't a shortage of individuals who've had a pile of it sitting around since whenever.

    1): Sure, but if you're reselling you're probably charging more than retail, and 5.56 is like $1.25/round or something similarly ridiculous. That's a pretty good chunk of dosh for a kid working part-time at a Wendy's to put up in cash.

    2): The point here is that this kid absolutely did not have 1600 rounds of ammunition on him, that's overwhelmingly cop ammo

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Yeah don't let them turn the page, keep the book open and in front of them.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    I’m glad to see some of y’all out of the “numb to this” feeling

    We should never accept this as something that “just happens sometimes”

    These kids deserved better

    I have moved firmly into ‘end the second amendment within my lifetime’ territory. It’s a fantasy, but I’m sick of letting idiots and cultists define this argument. Every day we keep the second amendment, we are choosing a sad power fantasy over innocent lives.

    In short- and medium-term fantasy land, a buyback/amnesty period followed by intense penalties for possession. Any access to a firearm requires a lengthy training course, background and mental health screening, proof of safe storage capacity, regular checks of your home to verify storage practices, multiple current references updated annually, and the notarized signature of everybody you have lived with or been in a significant relationship with for the past few years. You want to own any gun, you better be on your best behavior for a long fucking time. And that gets you a single-shot rifle or shotgun, no handguns, nothing semi-automatic.

    The FBI can follow the record industry’s lead from the 90s and leak bad 3D prints of ghost guns that overheat and destroy your printer. Bonus points if they can devise a mechanism that results in near-permanent resin stains on the attempted user.

    I just don’t care about these people or trying to convince them any more. The only thing they fear is losing their fucking guns, so fuck it, take them. They can’t get worse than 40,000 dead a year, and the world can’t be better until they’ve been disarmed. Make it the police’s primary job for the next couple decades to seize and destroy guns, with constant federal oversight.

    There will be blowback, because these people worship death, but you’d need a hell of a lot of blowback for it to compare to the losses every day of our current situation brings.

    Edit: I’m sure there are a hundred flaws to every step in this, even beyond the sheer fantasy of it being feasible at all. Thankfully the bar for success is low enough to functionally not exist.

    People thought the same thing about cigarettes, but the way to make this happen is actually fairly simple, if there is any political will at all to make it happen.

    You systematically dismantle the mystique around the thing. When it isn't cool anymore, when every gun owner that doesn't need their firearm for subsistence hunting, when every dumbass that says they need it for home defense looks like what they really are (sociopaths), they start to feel like losers.

    When they feel like losers, you offer to buy the thing from them. Suddenly they're winners again, because they got rid of the thing that was making them uncool and unpopular and they got some money for it.

    The problem here is step 1, because our politicians can be (and are) bribed to not do even the most simple things to fix the problem.

    Fully correct. Team Gun needs to feel like being a loser. A weak, pathetic, scared loser. Make Team Gun suck to be on, and people will change teams. There's no logic to this, no thing you have to talk them into, no need for facts or figures or graphs.

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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Gun culture, like car culture, must be destroyed even if we assume guns and cars will always remain very common tools

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  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Big Dookie wrote: »
    Abbott’s press conference today was interrupted again today, this time by State Senator Roland Gutierrez.



    I hope this keeps happening again and again to these goddamn ghouls. They should never be able to leave their house again without being ridiculed and called out for their bullshit.

    Abbott should have to hide in a cave until he dies because going in public is too shameful

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