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Uvalde Shooting: 19 elementary school children dead, 2 adults

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Posts

  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    edited May 27
    Abbot in particular has been just gross through this entire thing. He went to a god damn fundraiser. That night! After doing the press conference. How messed up do you have to be to be moved so little by such unbelievable tragedy? And all any of them that did that initial presser could think about is how to spin it for their personal politics and future presidential run.

    Dark_Side on
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  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    mrondeau wrote: »
    Dark_Side wrote: »
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Nobeard wrote: »
    I am now suspicious that some cop did charge in but instead of shooting the gunman he shot and killed a couple kids and that’s why the outside cops were so adamant on keeping anyone else from getting in, including parents and other departments.



    NBC News Correspondent NEW: Texas law enforcement officials at a press conference say they believe that all the children that were shot and killed in Uvalde, TX were shot by Salvador Ramos and not anyone else [i.e. law enforcement].

    Yeah that's uh...that's exactly what happened

    So...that's basically a tacit admission that they did then.

    Also for gun control I realized today that we're so behind the 8 ball on ghost guns and 3d printing that even if we can ban AR-15's, black market printing presses will spring up overnight to churn them out.

    Making black market guns is not hard anyway, but Canadian criminals still import them from the US, because smuggling them is easier. And you can still arrest people making guns, so they won't exactly be eager to sell them to strangers.

    So it's still worth doing.

    Agreed. The 3D printing market might not be far off ghost guns and shit if the AR-15 is banned. Meaning that people that REALLY want one, they will be capable of getting one. Not a reason to not ban them.

    You know who won't get one? Incompetent dipshits, who can currently buy one over the counter. And I'd put a significant percentage of people who would commit a school shooting, in that category. If you need to go deep into the web to find out how to buy a "ghost gun" AR-15, that's going to be a hinderance to quite a few people without the technical knowledge. Because the people making those weapons aren't going to want to be easy to find, if it means the ATF decide to look into you.

    You know what another benefit would be? Anyone posting "glory shots" up on social media, or carrying one in public, welp, now there's someone committing a crime. Start making it difficult to show off your weapon, start making it more difficult to promote the kind of mentality that is associated with this kind of weapon.

    As I've said before, any restriction that makes it more difficult for people with bad intentions to get a weapon, is a step in the right direction, even if it doesn't reduce that chance to zero. Heck, even if it only reduces it by a marginal amount, that's still going to be lives saved. Every incompetent dipshit who can't get a gun because of restrictions put in place, could be dozens of lives saved.

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  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    In most places Border Patrol absolutely cannot take action on non-border/non-citizen issues unless asked. There are a few places where the local PDs or sheriffs aren't 24-hour operations and USBP fills in overnight, but that's not what happened here.

    The agents would have Stonegarden agreements with Uvalde PD and may do some joint operations, but if the SWAT guys told the local patrol agent in charge that they have it covered, fuck off, the PAIC has to fuck off.

    Fencingsaxmoniker
  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    As said above, you can afford an awful lot if you're not planning to live to the next paycheck.

    He was apparently living with the grandmother he shot, so likely no rent or bills, meaning Wendy's paycheck goes farther to start with. Add in anything like a TV or video games he could pawn for quick cash, anything he can steal from grandma, and there's a fair chunk even without assuming he could have saved for a couple checks (because no bills or rent).

    Kayne Red Robe
  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    I’m glad to see some of y’all out of the “numb to this” feeling

    We should never accept this as something that “just happens sometimes”

    These kids deserved better

    I have moved firmly into ‘end the second amendment within my lifetime’ territory. It’s a fantasy, but I’m sick of letting idiots and cultists define this argument. Every day we keep the second amendment, we are choosing a sad power fantasy over innocent lives.

    In short- and medium-term fantasy land, a buyback/amnesty period followed by intense penalties for possession. Any access to a firearm requires a lengthy training course, background and mental health screening, proof of safe storage capacity, regular checks of your home to verify storage practices, multiple current references updated annually, and the notarized signature of everybody you have lived with or been in a significant relationship with for the past few years. You want to own any gun, you better be on your best behavior for a long fucking time. And that gets you a single-shot rifle or shotgun, no handguns, nothing semi-automatic.

    The FBI can follow the record industry’s lead from the 90s and leak bad 3D prints of ghost guns that overheat and destroy your printer. Bonus points if they can devise a mechanism that results in near-permanent resin stains on the attempted user.

    I just don’t care about these people or trying to convince them any more. The only thing they fear is losing their fucking guns, so fuck it, take them. They can’t get worse than 40,000 dead a year, and the world can’t be better until they’ve been disarmed. Make it the police’s primary job for the next couple decades to seize and destroy guns, with constant federal oversight.

    There will be blowback, because these people worship death, but you’d need a hell of a lot of blowback for it to compare to the losses every day of our current situation brings.

    Edit: I’m sure there are a hundred flaws to every step in this, even beyond the sheer fantasy of it being feasible at all. Thankfully the bar for success is low enough to functionally not exist.

    People thought the same thing about cigarettes, but the way to make this happen is actually fairly simple, if there is any political will at all to make it happen.

    You systematically dismantle the mystique around the thing. When it isn't cool anymore, when every gun owner that doesn't need their firearm for subsistence hunting, when every dumbass that says they need it for home defense looks like what they really are (sociopaths), they start to feel like losers.

    When they feel like losers, you offer to buy the thing from them. Suddenly they're winners again, because they got rid of the thing that was making them uncool and unpopular and they got some money for it.

    The problem here is step 1, because our politicians can be (and are) bribed to not do even the most simple things to fix the problem.

    Fully correct. Team Gun needs to feel like being a loser. A weak, pathetic, scared loser. Make Team Gun suck to be on, and people will change teams. There's no logic to this, no thing you have to talk them into, no need for facts or figures or graphs.

    The NRA needs to be inextricably linked to dead kids.

    I'm not saying we are going to have an autocratic dystopia, but things keep happening that look like they come from an autocratic dystopia.
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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Hey folks, just to clarify, in case there was confusion, it's okay to discuss the potential political ramifications of this shooting, just please be careful with your language and potentially erroneous reads. Not everyone knows that referring to dead children as a "jackpot" is just a reference to a sci-fi trilogy and not, you know, the standard definition of the word.

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  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Dark_Side wrote: »
    Abbot in particular has been just gross through this entire thing. He went to a god damn fundraiser. That night! After doing the press conference. How messed up do you have to be to be moved so little by such unbelievable tragedy? And all any of them that did that initial presser could think about is how to spin it for their personal politics and future presidential run.

    In Abbott’s mind, he’s the real victim here

    I’m not saying that to be pithy or a smartass, it’s literally how he sees this whole tragedy

    He has certainly thought, at some point, “If this hadn’t happened now I would just be cruising to re-election”

    I hope this doesn’t go away and that he pays the fucking piper

    I want his national ambitions to be a dream beyond a dream, so he can know how those of us who have been begging for gun control feel

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  • jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    I’m glad to see some of y’all out of the “numb to this” feeling

    We should never accept this as something that “just happens sometimes”

    These kids deserved better

    I have moved firmly into ‘end the second amendment within my lifetime’ territory. It’s a fantasy, but I’m sick of letting idiots and cultists define this argument. Every day we keep the second amendment, we are choosing a sad power fantasy over innocent lives.

    In short- and medium-term fantasy land, a buyback/amnesty period followed by intense penalties for possession. Any access to a firearm requires a lengthy training course, background and mental health screening, proof of safe storage capacity, regular checks of your home to verify storage practices, multiple current references updated annually, and the notarized signature of everybody you have lived with or been in a significant relationship with for the past few years. You want to own any gun, you better be on your best behavior for a long fucking time. And that gets you a single-shot rifle or shotgun, no handguns, nothing semi-automatic.

    The FBI can follow the record industry’s lead from the 90s and leak bad 3D prints of ghost guns that overheat and destroy your printer. Bonus points if they can devise a mechanism that results in near-permanent resin stains on the attempted user.

    I just don’t care about these people or trying to convince them any more. The only thing they fear is losing their fucking guns, so fuck it, take them. They can’t get worse than 40,000 dead a year, and the world can’t be better until they’ve been disarmed. Make it the police’s primary job for the next couple decades to seize and destroy guns, with constant federal oversight.

    There will be blowback, because these people worship death, but you’d need a hell of a lot of blowback for it to compare to the losses every day of our current situation brings.

    Edit: I’m sure there are a hundred flaws to every step in this, even beyond the sheer fantasy of it being feasible at all. Thankfully the bar for success is low enough to functionally not exist.

    People thought the same thing about cigarettes, but the way to make this happen is actually fairly simple, if there is any political will at all to make it happen.

    You systematically dismantle the mystique around the thing. When it isn't cool anymore, when every gun owner that doesn't need their firearm for subsistence hunting, when every dumbass that says they need it for home defense looks like what they really are (sociopaths), they start to feel like losers.

    When they feel like losers, you offer to buy the thing from them. Suddenly they're winners again, because they got rid of the thing that was making them uncool and unpopular and they got some money for it.

    The problem here is step 1, because our politicians can be (and are) bribed to not do even the most simple things to fix the problem.

    Fully correct. Team Gun needs to feel like being a loser. A weak, pathetic, scared loser. Make Team Gun suck to be on, and people will change teams. There's no logic to this, no thing you have to talk them into, no need for facts or figures or graphs.

    Bingo.

    There is no appeal to being better, no reasonable debate, no line of discourse people can possibly engage in that will make these people understand. They need to made to feel small, and have their life feel immeasurably worse.

    This is a terrifying issue because we're trying to divorce people from their source of power and identity that is causing mass murders, but there's no other way around it. Top to bottom, these people deserve no respect from us because they don't respect human life. They actively seek ways to stockpile the ability to end human life, fantasize about it, create situations where they are allowed to do it.

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    I want these people to be pestered until they cave or they come right out and state that they don't give a shit. Like at this point I don't care which it is but stop pulling this thoughts and prayers shit and moving on after you've made a show of feeling bad and doing nothing.

    Also, I did some measurements (because apparently that's what I get to do today; figure out numbers for things that should be getting me on some kind of google watch list) and figured out a cathartic (if theatric) response to Ted cruz and company doing everything they can to prevent sensible gun laws from passing:

    Get these:
    orange-the-home-depot-paint-buckets-05glhd2-64_100.jpg

    Fill them with pigs blood and then pour those 3 buckets of blood on them while the senate is in session after they demure about how they can't do anything about it.

    Why 3 buckets instead of one? Because based off my quick and dirty math that's about how much innocent blood was spilled because of the carnage in Uvalde; 15 gallons.

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  • ButtersButters A glass of some milks Registered User regular
    Posting this everywhere I can:

    I'll never understand why the cops aren't in favor of gun control. If they truly were afraid of the Uvalde gunman I empathize with that but wouldn't you want those weapons off the open market?

    The armed guard at Parkland felt he was out gunned so he waited for backup. I think that's logical depending on the full context. But then why don't they want to reduce the chances they would feel overmatched by teenagers with combat gear?

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    DoodmannBucketman
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Butters wrote: »
    Posting this everywhere I can:

    I'll never understand why the cops aren't in favor of gun control. If they truly were afraid of the Uvalde gunman I empathize with that but wouldn't you want those weapons off the open market?

    The armed guard at Parkland felt he was out gunned so he waited for backup. I think that's logical depending on the full context. But then why don't they want to reduce the chances they would feel overmatched by teenagers with combat gear?

    Cops like guns too for one reason, the other is they need gunmen to keep the populace scared so they can keep taking power and terrorize communities they are supposed to protect. Its hard to justify military flak jackets, and assault rifles if you live in Mayberry.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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  • VeagleVeagle Registered User regular
    Lanz wrote: »
    At this point it’s damn clear there needs to be a federal investigation, and the local authorities have to step the fuck out of the way

    Biden already said he wasn’t calling for one cause he trusts the cops

    Though I could see that changing as this gets sillier every other hour

    There is an FBI investigation according to congressman Castro.


    This morning, I met with the FBI about its investigation into the Uvalde shooting. Here’s what I learned:

    1. The FBI has mobilized extensive investigative resources to examine the timeline of events in Uvalde and evidence from the scene, working alongside but independent of Texas DPS and the Texas Rangers.

    Like most Texans and Americans, I’m deeply frustrated by the conflicting accounts that state authorities have provided about how events unfolded, and I’m disturbed by law enforcement’s failure to confront and stop the shooter sooner.

    I’ve also asked the FBI to look into whether the shooter was — or should have been — on the radar of law enforcement before the shooting. I will continue to press for answers.

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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    So if you were wondering if every terrible idea that isn't gun control would become pretty much the official position, this should make the answer more obvious:

    "NPR Investigative Correspondent":
    Trump says there should be "impenetrable security" at every school... all should have metal detectors/fencing/single point of entry.

    No one should be in the schools unless they are "checked, scanned, screened, and fully approved," Trump said
    Soon cavity searches for every school visitor will be their position

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Butters wrote: »
    Posting this everywhere I can:

    I'll never understand why the cops aren't in favor of gun control. If they truly were afraid of the Uvalde gunman I empathize with that but wouldn't you want those weapons off the open market?

    The armed guard at Parkland felt he was out gunned so he waited for backup. I think that's logical depending on the full context. But then why don't they want to reduce the chances they would feel overmatched by teenagers with combat gear?

    Cops aren't in favour of gun control because gun control is now a fully partisan cultural issue. And the cops, institutionally and for most personally as well, are on the right-wing side of that divide.

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  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Butters wrote: »
    Posting this everywhere I can:

    I'll never understand why the cops aren't in favor of gun control. If they truly were afraid of the Uvalde gunman I empathize with that but wouldn't you want those weapons off the open market?

    The armed guard at Parkland felt he was out gunned so he waited for backup. I think that's logical depending on the full context. But then why don't they want to reduce the chances they would feel overmatched by teenagers with combat gear?

    It's also kind of ridiculous that they were scared of him in the first place; they outnumbered him, had better training both in tactics and marksmanship and I'm pretty sure that their squad care would have come standard with an AR15 of their own. beyond that they were were within spitting distance of the PD in a town of 13k so back up should have been their in minutes.

    Hell, according to them he should have been slow as fuck due to him carrying a massive pile of ammo.

    PreacherKayne Red RobeGnome-InterruptusMan in the Mists
  • BlindPsychicBlindPsychic Registered User regular
    I mean, they literally tried to overthrow the government
    Couscous wrote: »
    So if you were wondering if every terrible idea that isn't gun control would become pretty much the official position, this should make the answer more obvious:

    "NPR Investigative Correspondent":
    Trump says there should be "impenetrable security" at every school... all should have metal detectors/fencing/single point of entry.

    No one should be in the schools unless they are "checked, scanned, screened, and fully approved," Trump said
    Soon cavity searches for every school visitor will be their position

    Oh Erik Adams subway plan then

    Dark_SideMan in the Mists
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Butters wrote: »
    Posting this everywhere I can:

    I'll never understand why the cops aren't in favor of gun control. If they truly were afraid of the Uvalde gunman I empathize with that but wouldn't you want those weapons off the open market?

    The armed guard at Parkland felt he was out gunned so he waited for backup. I think that's logical depending on the full context. But then why don't they want to reduce the chances they would feel overmatched by teenagers with combat gear?

    It was mentioned earlier, but it has not been uncommon at all for police associations and Sheriffs to support stricter gun laws and oppose dumb shit like “constitutional carry.” They will often cite officer safety and public safety for their reason.

    I think these law enforcement organizations moving into the pro gun camp is part of a hard rightward swing in general, probably in response to attacks from “the left.” Though that’s me talking out of my ass. But the average cop has become very, very knee jerk conservative so it shouldn’t be surprising that they’re on board with team All The Guns.

    But even back in the 00’s I remember the law enforcement orgs in Montana opposing a move to eliminating the permit requirements for concealed carry, which were already largely a joke (only applied in city limits, only covered guns covered by clothes meaning a gun in a backpack, fanny pack, or anywhere in a car required no permit).

    electricitylikesmemoniker
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited May 27
    Couscous wrote: »
    So if you were wondering if every terrible idea that isn't gun control would become pretty much the official position, this should make the answer more obvious:

    "NPR Investigative Correspondent":
    Trump says there should be "impenetrable security" at every school... all should have metal detectors/fencing/single point of entry.

    No one should be in the schools unless they are "checked, scanned, screened, and fully approved," Trump said
    Soon cavity searches for every school visitor will be their position

    Soon school shooters will have to push their way past the mall cop so they can begin executing the students trapped in the one-exit killbox.

    shryke on
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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    Butters wrote: »
    Posting this everywhere I can:

    I'll never understand why the cops aren't in favor of gun control. If they truly were afraid of the Uvalde gunman I empathize with that but wouldn't you want those weapons off the open market?

    The armed guard at Parkland felt he was out gunned so he waited for backup. I think that's logical depending on the full context. But then why don't they want to reduce the chances they would feel overmatched by teenagers with combat gear?

    They used to be! Lot of cop unions were backing the assault weapon ban back in its day, but its all been swept up in polarization and increasing radicalization on the right and with cops in particular.

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
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  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    Dark_Side wrote: »
    Abbot in particular has been just gross through this entire thing. He went to a god damn fundraiser. That night! After doing the press conference. How messed up do you have to be to be moved so little by such unbelievable tragedy? And all any of them that did that initial presser could think about is how to spin it for their personal politics and future presidential run.

    You have two kinds of gentry, broadly speaking throughout history.

    The kind who believe themselves duty bound to noblesse oblige

    And the kind who think the plebs should just hurry up and get themselves into the gutter already.

    Abbot is the latter

    waNkm4k.jpg?1
    Captain InertiaMan in the Mists
  • dlinfinitidlinfiniti Registered User regular
    Law enforcement support was an important part of being able to pass the 1994 AWB, the NRA fucked that all up afterwards
    it was in response to that the NRA started taking over elections from congress all the way down to local sheriffs and stuff

    AAAAA!!! PLAAAYGUUU!!!!
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    I mean, they literally tried to overthrow the government
    Couscous wrote: »
    So if you were wondering if every terrible idea that isn't gun control would become pretty much the official position, this should make the answer more obvious:

    "NPR Investigative Correspondent":
    Trump says there should be "impenetrable security" at every school... all should have metal detectors/fencing/single point of entry.

    No one should be in the schools unless they are "checked, scanned, screened, and fully approved," Trump said
    Soon cavity searches for every school visitor will be their position

    Oh Erik Adams subway plan then

    Also ~putting aside all the safety hazards associated with that and who the fuck is going to pay for that~ The biggest take away should be that none of that would have impeded this guy.

    PreachershrykeIncenjucarFencingsaxKayne Red RobeElvenshaenever diemonikerMan in the MistsBucketman
  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    So if you were wondering if every terrible idea that isn't gun control would become pretty much the official position, this should make the answer more obvious:

    "NPR Investigative Correspondent":
    Trump says there should be "impenetrable security" at every school... all should have metal detectors/fencing/single point of entry.

    No one should be in the schools unless they are "checked, scanned, screened, and fully approved," Trump said
    Soon cavity searches for every school visitor will be their position

    As has been asked elsewhere: What do you do about the places that you haven’t yet turned into hardened targets, even if this plan does work in spite of every bit of its internalized stupidity?

    How do you harden a park? How do you harden stores? Restaurants, any location where people congregate in moderately large numbers and are designed for ease of travel in and out?

    How many goddamned places in society do you have to transform into a hardened target before finally this actually serves as a solution to mass murder via semi-automatic rifle?

    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Fuck what Trump says, he's the king of "look over there."

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    Cops at least used to be almost universally for gun control. For the very sensible reason of they don't wanna be shot. At least that's how police unions and agencies always leaned. I don't know about recently though.

    One exception being Sheriffs who were always more iffy as they're elected officials.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited May 27
    Preacher wrote: »
    Fuck what Trump says, he's the king of "look over there."

    enlightenedbum on
    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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  • ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    edited May 27
    Two more or less random questions for the thread:

    Does anybody know the proper pronunciation of "Uvalde" ?

    Is there an actual / legal definition for "AR(-15) style" weapons? Like, I know what's being referred to, I'm just wondering if there's an actual / official / legal term that applies

    Tox on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    The actual definition of an ar or whatever is another dodge, just something else to get you into the weeds and waste your time and have nothing happen.

    "God all you gun grabbers don't even know what a gun is, you say clips instead of magazines nerds."

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
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  • HeMansWayHeMansWay Registered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Hey folks, just to clarify, in case there was confusion, it's okay to discuss the potential political ramifications of this shooting, just please be careful with your language and potentially erroneous reads. Not everyone knows that referring to dead children as a "jackpot" is just a reference to a sci-fi trilogy and not, you know, the standard definition of the word.

    "The jackpot", not a jackpot. Maybe ask if you need clarification on a term?

    Giggles_FunsworthLanzDee KaeMetzger MeisterFANTOMASYamiB.
  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Gundi wrote: »
    Even if those cops had nothing but their bare hands, I would still have expected them to call for backup, then run in the school and try to tackle the shooter.

    Those were kids in there. If nothing else, you buy them some time.

    The response of local law enforcement is literally insane. For over 14 years it has been considered standard operating procedure in a mass shooting (sucks that us Americans have to have an S.O.P. for mass shootings) for law enforcement to put killing/neutralizing an active shooter as the number one priority above anything else.

    They aren't supposed to wait for back up, they aren't supposed to prioritize evacuating people out of the area, they aren't supposed to provide medical attention or cordon off the scene, they aren't supposed to do literally anything other than hunt down the shooter until they make sure said shooter is physically incapable of firing their weapon anymore. This has been the playbook, that everyone fucking knows, that certainly every cop knows, for over a decade. Active shooter drills are like, the singularly most common thing cops tend to actually get training for.

    Fuck, even if turns out they did accidentally shoot a child, their priority is still even in that situation to disable the shooter.

    They could fucking hear the guy shooting. They could fucking hear the kids screaming. I can understand making a bad judgement call in a split second but not for a whole fucking hour. Listening. And there were three different departs of law enforcement there and except for the two initial cops who actually did go in there and got shot, every single one of them made the worst possible call they could make. For an hour. Listening to kids getting murdered within earshot of their parents.

    The protocol was invented in San Marcos, TX not two hours away. There's no fucking way on God's earth they hadn't been exposed to it.

    ZibblsnrtBlackDragon480electricitylikesmeGnome-InterruptusElvenshaejimb213monikerKristmas Kthulhu
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    I’m glad to see some of y’all out of the “numb to this” feeling

    We should never accept this as something that “just happens sometimes”

    These kids deserved better

    I have moved firmly into ‘end the second amendment within my lifetime’ territory. It’s a fantasy, but I’m sick of letting idiots and cultists define this argument. Every day we keep the second amendment, we are choosing a sad power fantasy over innocent lives.

    In short- and medium-term fantasy land, a buyback/amnesty period followed by intense penalties for possession. Any access to a firearm requires a lengthy training course, background and mental health screening, proof of safe storage capacity, regular checks of your home to verify storage practices, multiple current references updated annually, and the notarized signature of everybody you have lived with or been in a significant relationship with for the past few years. You want to own any gun, you better be on your best behavior for a long fucking time. And that gets you a single-shot rifle or shotgun, no handguns, nothing semi-automatic.

    The FBI can follow the record industry’s lead from the 90s and leak bad 3D prints of ghost guns that overheat and destroy your printer. Bonus points if they can devise a mechanism that results in near-permanent resin stains on the attempted user.

    I just don’t care about these people or trying to convince them any more. The only thing they fear is losing their fucking guns, so fuck it, take them. They can’t get worse than 40,000 dead a year, and the world can’t be better until they’ve been disarmed. Make it the police’s primary job for the next couple decades to seize and destroy guns, with constant federal oversight.

    There will be blowback, because these people worship death, but you’d need a hell of a lot of blowback for it to compare to the losses every day of our current situation brings.

    Edit: I’m sure there are a hundred flaws to every step in this, even beyond the sheer fantasy of it being feasible at all. Thankfully the bar for success is low enough to functionally not exist.

    People thought the same thing about cigarettes, but the way to make this happen is actually fairly simple, if there is any political will at all to make it happen.

    You systematically dismantle the mystique around the thing. When it isn't cool anymore, when every gun owner that doesn't need their firearm for subsistence hunting, when every dumbass that says they need it for home defense looks like what they really are (sociopaths), they start to feel like losers.

    When they feel like losers, you offer to buy the thing from them. Suddenly they're winners again, because they got rid of the thing that was making them uncool and unpopular and they got some money for it.

    The problem here is step 1, because our politicians can be (and are) bribed to not do even the most simple things to fix the problem.

    Fully correct. Team Gun needs to feel like being a loser. A weak, pathetic, scared loser. Make Team Gun suck to be on, and people will change teams. There's no logic to this, no thing you have to talk them into, no need for facts or figures or graphs.

    Bingo.

    There is no appeal to being better, no reasonable debate, no line of discourse people can possibly engage in that will make these people understand. They need to made to feel small, and have their life feel immeasurably worse.

    This is a terrifying issue because we're trying to divorce people from their source of power and identity that is causing mass murders, but there's no other way around it. Top to bottom, these people deserve no respect from us because they don't respect human life. They actively seek ways to stockpile the ability to end human life, fantasize about it, create situations where they are allowed to do it.

    And, in particular, an enormous heap of the so called justification for white supremacy can be resumed into "white man deserves to rule because the moral of history is that white man best at killing". Is a worship of the capacity to kill as the ultimate arbiter of morality and justice.

    electricitylikesme
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    HeMansWay wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Hey folks, just to clarify, in case there was confusion, it's okay to discuss the potential political ramifications of this shooting, just please be careful with your language and potentially erroneous reads. Not everyone knows that referring to dead children as a "jackpot" is just a reference to a sci-fi trilogy and not, you know, the standard definition of the word.

    "The jackpot", not a jackpot. Maybe ask if you need clarification on a term?

    Dude, you sure you wanna sass a mod?

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  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    edited May 27
    Tox wrote: »
    Two more or less random questions for the thread:

    Does anybody know the proper pronunciation of "Uvalde" ?

    Is there an actual / legal definition for "AR(-15) style" weapons? Like, I know what's being referred to, I'm just wondering if there's an actual / official / legal term that applies
    Broadly speaking legally I believe there are three different distinctions between firearms in the US. Handguns, long-guns, and assault weapons.

    Handguns are, as you might except, firearms that you could reasonable be able to use with one hand. A pistol or a revolver.
    Long-guns are single or double action shotguns and rifles.
    Assault weapons are semi-automatic or fully automatic weapons that have large magazines. There's not a consistent legal definition for them beyond that, although most state level gun-control laws do go more in depth on what is considered an 'assault weapon.'

    Gundi on
  • ToxTox I kill threads he/himRegistered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    The actual definition of an ar or whatever is another dodge, just something else to get you into the weeds and waste your time and have nothing happen.

    I disagree; if you're going to legally ban a thing, you must define it. I want to repeal the second amendment, and I want to ban explicitly tacticool ARs.

    Although I'm fine with just banning rifling and magazines, and anything over a certain barrel length.

  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited May 27
    Preacher wrote: »
    Fuck what Trump says, he's the king of "look over there."


    I have seen a ton of "they aren't really serious about it and it is just a distraction" with regards to the GOP that ends up happening

    Couscous on
    moniker
  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    This theme of advertising bans like we did for smoking is sounding better and better to me tbh. This thread is the first I've heard of it and, and it seems like a great idea.

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  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    Behold, a collection of shit gargling motherfuckers gargling diarrhea live on stage:


    NRA CEO Wayne LaPierre begins the NRA convention by saying, "we must reject the idea that every time a law is broken society is guilty, rather than the lawbreaker."

    More in freelance journalist Aaron Rupar’s thread

    waNkm4k.jpg?1
    Elvenshae
  • HeMansWayHeMansWay Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    HeMansWay wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Hey folks, just to clarify, in case there was confusion, it's okay to discuss the potential political ramifications of this shooting, just please be careful with your language and potentially erroneous reads. Not everyone knows that referring to dead children as a "jackpot" is just a reference to a sci-fi trilogy and not, you know, the standard definition of the word.

    "The jackpot", not a jackpot. Maybe ask if you need clarification on a term?

    Dude, you sure you wanna sass a mod?

    I'm not sassing a mod. It seems like there is a failure to communicate and people jumped to conclusions.

    LanzGiggles_FunsworthVegemyteKristmas KthulhuYamiB.
  • MillMill Registered User regular
    To hit on a few things.

    -How did he find the ammo?

    I'd like an investigation into this, but if someone is motivated, it isn't fucking hard to find away despite the shortage in supplies. Might not be possible to get it all in one go, but it is possible to get it from multiple sources. Also we know there are plenty of assholes that hoard things and bullets do have a shelf life. I could see someone with a hoard of bullets, being willing to part with a shit ton of them because they know they are about to hit the point where the chemicals that allow the round to do what it's suppose to do, are getting close to wonky. Reminder with some elements of gun culture, there are plenty of people that are willing to sell shit they know is potentially unsafe because they don't view it as their problem and are more interested in recouping costs.

    -How could he afford it?

    A quick search seems to indicate the bare minimum hourly wage is 8.16. Also a quick shows that a minor can put in a ton of hours if the setup is right and the shooter was 18. Anyways, assuming 20 hours a week, which seems realistic because a minor could potential work two 8 hour shifts on the weekend. One could make 163.20 before taxes in one week or 652.80 in a month. I imagine that one one could clear a thousand in two months after taxes take their share of the cut. Other thing to consider, is that this person could have had money saved up. So the shooter may have had more than enough money saved up before he decided to shoot up a school. Hell, since he is 18, he might have even been able to take out a loan. If you don't give a shit about your future, you probably don't care about how unreasonable a loan might be that you just took out.

    -That is a ton of weight?

    Cops might be exaggerating, maybe to even cover their own asses. I think math is saying 45-55 lbs for all that shit. Yeah, that is a fuck ton to lug on your back, but he might have been carrying this shit in every available pocket. I imagine that a healthy young man might not have a huge issue caring 25lbs. If you're really fit, that goes up and that just for the back. 45-55 lbs might be rather easy to manage if it's spread out. Like if you have several pounds in your pants pocket and hanging from your waist, that's less strain on your back. As for why he didn't get shot, I mean, US law enforcement has a pretty shitty track record on doing their job well and these fuckers didn't seem to incline to do their job.

    Anyways, going back to the ammo thing. This feels like a key area where some legislation might help solve issues. Just like there are laws aimed at outlawing magazine above a certain capacity and limiting rate of fire. I'd also argue that we probably should have legislation that limits the sale of ammo to a set cap that we should have a waiting period on when people can get that ammo because we force sellers to use a modern database that prevents someone from going to multiple stores to get by that cap. I'd even say, that if someone buys above a certain amount, if they want to buy more, they'll have to prove that they are actually using that ammo and not stocking up on a small hoard.

  • LanzLanz Registered User regular
    Trump apparently reading off the names of the Ulvalde dead at the NRA convention


    There is an obscenity here beyond measure

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