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Penny Arcade - Comic - Observer Effect

DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin

Observer Effect!

Penny Arcade - Comic - Observer Effect

Videogaming-related online strip by Mike Krahulik and Jerry Holkins. Includes news and commentary.

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Posts

  • OverkillengineOverkillengine Registered User regular
    edited June 2022
    Eh, that's just the usual result of matchmaking with randoms and captive audiences. Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory is always in full effect in automated matchmaking. The only other alternative is to curate the experience so heavily that you become niche. Or manual matchmaking by the userbase, but hardly anyone can be bothered to do that anymore so they demand that an algorithm hand them perfect joy.

    Overkillengine on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited June 2022
    I honestly dislike how we just accept racist, bigoted dill hole comments as a result of the internet at large. I don't think we should, and the more shit bags who engage in those behaviors are banned from all services the better for all of us.

    Like this comes up and old assholes go "Back in my day if you didn't hear five n words you weren't even gaming." We should never accept racist language, sexist language etc. This isn't simply "you suck or learn to play" or any of that shit, its targeted dick head harassments and we really as a community should stop accepting it.

    Preacher on
    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    edited June 2022
    Eh, that's just the usual result of matchmaking with randoms and captive audiences. Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory is always in full effect in automated matchmaking. The only other alternative is to curate the experience so heavily that you become niche. Or manual matchmaking by the userbase, but hardly anyone can be bothered to do that anymore so they demand that an algorithm hand them perfect joy.

    If you don't have the manpower to moderate your game chat to get rid of bigotry, then you should absolutely get an overbearing bot to do it for you.

    But one way or the other, that shit has GOT to go.

    Djiem on
  • OverkillengineOverkillengine Registered User regular
    edited June 2022
    Or just let the user manage their own blocklists. Nature will just make a better asshole to circumvent the automated measures, trust me on that one. And it will be more reactive and less false positive filled than any bot could ever be while keeping the power of consenting to interaction where it belongs - with the users. (this is effectively a form of manual matchmaking for chat specifically)

    Overkillengine on
  • DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    edited June 2022
    Or just let the user manage their own blocklists.

    No. Normalization of the asshole behavior is a huge factor for its rampant nature. If efforts, clear messaging is sent from the developer, from the playerbase, and from society in general, asshole becomes less common and accepted. It doesn't snuff it out completely, but it does help.

    I think something that should be more common is shadowbanning, where a player is still allowed to play with others, but we don't see their chat or hear their voice, but they can't tell. They're not muted, they don't get told they're muted, so they essentially get ignored by the entire playerbase, and their bile isn't sent to others.

    Djiem on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Yeah Block lists have limitations in number and that people can just make a new account and wow they aren't blocked anymore. It also has the tacit effect of saying its on the person being harrassed to defend themselves and not the harrasser to not be a fuck stick. "Sorry you were offended" as a dev cop out.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    I do curate my own online content very heavily. As in as soon as I join a public lobby I blanket mute everyone, or disable chat at the system menu level, or leave all /general chat channels etc. I use Discord or private parties for all chat, and block out as much rando as I possibly can.

    But I shouldn't have to do that, and just because I can (and do) do that, doesn't mean I should have to. Bad behavior, racism, sexism, and any other -ism should be punished harshly. The internet needs to do better, and that means companies who provide open chat lobbies or voice lobbies need to be extremely swift and harsh to shut that behavior down.

    The way the internet has evolved for the past ~20 years has been largely without any consequences, and that's why it is the way it is. The Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory is describing behavior that should not be allowed to exist.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    I do curate my own online content very heavily. As in as soon as I join a public lobby I blanket mute everyone, or disable chat at the system menu level, or leave all /general chat channels etc. I use Discord or private parties for all chat, and block out as much rando as I possibly can.

    But I shouldn't have to do that, and just because I can (and do) do that, doesn't mean I should have to. Bad behavior, racism, sexism, and any other -ism should be punished harshly. The internet needs to do better, and that means companies who provide open chat lobbies or voice lobbies need to be extremely swift and harsh to shut that behavior down.

    The way the internet has evolved for the past ~20 years has been largely without any consequences, and that's why it is the way it is. The Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory is describing behavior that should not be allowed to exist.

    And like I remember in the past meeting really fun people in random groups like in WoW or other games, so you want to like give communities a chance, but usually you'll just hear some Trumper bullshit, or other racist garbage, and good players just mute or never play the games.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • OverkillengineOverkillengine Registered User regular
    edited June 2022
    Djiem wrote: »
    Or just let the user manage their own blocklists.

    No. Normalization of the asshole behavior is a huge factor for its rampant nature. If efforts, clear messaging is sent from the developer, from the playerbase, and from society in general, asshole becomes less common and accepted. It doesn't snuff it out completely, but it does help.

    Or the assholes learn how to be shitbirds within the confines of the centralized and predictable rules. Ever watch vids of the LoL or DoTA community?
    I think something that should be more common is shadowbanning, where a player is still allowed to play with others, but we don't see their chat or hear their voice, but they can't tell. They're not muted, they don't get told they're muted, so they essentially get ignored by the entire playerbase, and their bile isn't sent to others.

    What I was thinking was something more along the lines of setting up rules in email applications for filtering chat instead of, you know emails. You can preemptively determine what crap you don't want to deal with while giving the troll absolutely no clue that they have gotten filtered beyond a lack of response. And you don't have to wait for the report system (automated or not) to do its alleged job at that point.
    Lucascraft wrote:
    I do curate my own online content very heavily. As in as soon as I join a public lobby I blanket mute everyone, or disable chat at the system menu level, or leave all /general chat channels etc. I use Discord or private parties for all chat, and block out as much rando as I possibly can.

    I do that frequently myself. I learned a long time ago that there is a large gap in how I think the world should be, and how it actually is, and the sheer majority if not totality of the time I get better results doing what I can on my own to effect whatever changes I need in order to tolerate that gap. A targeted example in prior thread is when I noticed a lot of toxic or otherwise undesirable teammates coming from a particular source (Crossplay), I was able to get immediate improvement by just shutting that off. Done! Didn't even have to wait for dev action or a bot.

    And ironically I got flack from people here for not wanting to deal with the bullshit they were pulling.

    ----

    Also, as a general PSA, observation of the predictability of a behavior is not the same as accepting it, and trying to pretend that they are is not a good faith interaction.

    Overkillengine on
  • DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    I think that Twitter has shown us that the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory is flawed. Normal People don't turn into Total Fuckwads when they get an Audience. There are only Assholes who can pass as Normal People, and they do not require Anonymity to turn into Total Fuckwads.

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Delzhand wrote: »
    I think that Twitter has shown us that the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory is flawed. Normal People don't turn into Total Fuckwads when they get an Audience. There are only Assholes who can pass as Normal People, and they do not require Anonymity to turn into Total Fuckwads.

    Facebook too, like the kind of stupid shit people put to their name an picture is legion. The only thing that allows it to happen is giving them a voice in the first place.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • MarcinMNMarcinMN Registered User regular
    Personally, the type of asshole that I would like to see purged from cyberspace is the one who forces me to have 500 different passwords for all my various accounts. The one who requires me to answer security questions, install multiple authenticator apps on my phone, or have websites text my phone with secret codes, all so that I can perform some mundane task in my everyday life. People should just not be the type of asshole who steals people's accounts, identities, etc. Of course, I feel those types of people are equally unlikely to be removed from the internet.

    "It's just as I've always said. We are being digested by an amoral universe."

    -Tycho Brahe
  • beeftruckbeeftruck Registered User regular
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    I do curate my own online content very heavily. As in as soon as I join a public lobby I blanket mute everyone, or disable chat at the system menu level, or leave all /general chat channels etc. I use Discord or private parties for all chat, and block out as much rando as I possibly can.

    But I shouldn't have to do that, and just because I can (and do) do that, doesn't mean I should have to. Bad behavior, racism, sexism, and any other -ism should be punished harshly. The internet needs to do better, and that means companies who provide open chat lobbies or voice lobbies need to be extremely swift and harsh to shut that behavior down.

    The way the internet has evolved for the past ~20 years has been largely without any consequences, and that's why it is the way it is. The Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory is describing behavior that should not be allowed to exist.

    1) Your enforcement is never going to keep up with a motivated euphemism treadmill.

    2) Progressive activists inability to disregard trolling means that everything five randos on post on 4chan becomes Official Hate Material and you end up with baffled truck drivers getting fired for using the "ok" gesture and shit like that.

    Yeah I'd prefer you just learn to block and roll with it rather than have you barging in three times a week to tell me all the words you saw on /pol/ yesterday that are banned now.

  • DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    Yes, the problem is definitely the inability of people to identify when people are being assholes for fun vs assholes for serious

    ???

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Ahh yes those people who are just upset people are outwardly white supremacist for the lols.

    Funny from the people who scream about how persecuted they are for their "old timey" beliefs.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • LttlefootLttlefoot Registered User regular
    Don’t talk to strangers

  • DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    beeftruck wrote: »
    inability to disregard trolling

    Not inability, unwillingness, which is the right attitude to have.

  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    The fact that game communities select for populations that match the behavior they filter for shows it does matter.

    What is this I don't even.
  • beeftruckbeeftruck Registered User regular
    Djiem wrote: »
    beeftruck wrote: »
    inability to disregard trolling

    Not inability, unwillingness, which is the right attitude to have.

    Yeah they really taught that random truck driver a lesson. But hey, what's this dude's livelihood, and those of people in similar cases, compared to the satisfaction terminally online progressives get from taking imageboard troll ops seriously? Letting that meme die in obscurity in a random 4chan thread would have been a triumph for fascism. Thankfully people like you guys were there to save us from that fate.

  • DjiemDjiem Registered User regular
    beeftruck wrote: »
    Djiem wrote: »
    beeftruck wrote: »
    inability to disregard trolling

    Not inability, unwillingness, which is the right attitude to have.

    Yeah they really taught that random truck driver a lesson. But hey, what's this dude's livelihood, and those of people in similar cases, compared to the satisfaction terminally online progressives get from taking imageboard troll ops seriously? Letting that meme die in obscurity in a random 4chan thread would have been a triumph for fascism. Thankfully people like you guys were there to save us from that fate.

    Yawn

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