That's great work Hydro! One nitpick: that dull green with yellow highlight makes it look much more like a Davion 3rd Crucis Lancer 'mech (a really spot-on one, btw!), than a Syn's Hussars ride.
3rd Crucis
Syn's Hussars
But that's just me being a gatekeepy lore nerd, so feel free to ignore me.
Also, that Panther is On Point. So good!
Welp, guess I've got me a Davion unit! That's why I used test dudes.
...
We chose to use CGL store credit to maximize your benefit by an extra $20 if you backed both dice and decks (see below).
DICE: Everyone who pledged to receive a single pair of dice will receive at least a $5 credit (per pair) on the Catalyst store to make up for the lack of CGL quality, and an additional $5 (per order) for the conversion to store credit.
DECKS: There were three missing decks (by title) but CGL combined the extant pilots from in-progress decks to create “Heroes of the Inner Sphere,” which you will have received in place of at least one missing deck. You will still receive a credit of at least $15 per missing deck.
In the next few weeks, credits will start to mail out. There are more than 12,000 of them. We will continue to post updates as to where we are in the process. For those who asked about applying this credit to the next campaign, we think that is possible, but it will take an arrangement with our pledge manager. If you do not spend the credit, we will work with you to apply it at that time.
...
I honestly didn't expect them to do anything other than an apology. Still wish they could have made a second run on the dice since they looked cool (even with the defects).
Personally: I think the base color and recess shading is solid, but the highlighted panels could be pushed harder toward jade. They read a little more yellow-green or a desaturated midtone green to me than jade. This is, of course, extremely nitpicky so YMMV.
A local player mentioned something about implementing faction abilities in a game of classic and…. No one had any idea what he was talking about. Is this it?
Personally: I think the base color and recess shading is solid, but the highlighted panels could be pushed harder toward jade. They read a little more yellow-green or a desaturated midtone green to me than jade. This is, of course, extremely nitpicky so YMMV.
ok, at least im not crazy in thinking the jade color isnt jady enough.
but comparing the pics on here to the mini the pics are 100% more yellow than they actually are in person, so i'll roll with it.
A local player mentioned something about implementing faction abilities in a game of classic and…. No one had any idea what he was talking about. Is this it?
no one faction has any special abilities over any other, but each faction has units that appear in the rosters more frequently than others. But RATs are more a flavor thing. A bunch exist out there somewhere and allows you to roll up units based on what that faction would typically run. I know there in source books somewhere, but i cant think of which ones off the top of my head.
AH! According to my handy dandy Battleforce book they should be in Total Warfare amongst others
A local player mentioned something about implementing faction abilities in a game of classic and…. No one had any idea what he was talking about. Is this it?
no one faction has any special abilities over any other, but each faction has units that appear in the rosters more frequently than others. But RATs are more a flavor thing. A bunch exist out there somewhere and allows you to roll up units based on what that faction would typically run. I know there in source books somewhere, but i cant think of which ones off the top of my head.
AH! According to my handy dandy Battleforce book they should be in Total Warfare amongst others
YEP! page 267.
He's not talking about the RAT tables but the unit specific rules from the Field Manuals. Such as:
191st Royal BattleMech Division: The Zavijava Division automatically
wins the Initiative Roll for the first four rounds of gameplay. In addition,
players using ’Mechs of the Royal Black Watch regiment may select any
’Mech or tank from the Royal Tables of the RAT (see pp. 241-242)
225th Mechanized Infantry Division: The 225th is adept at low gravity
operations. Any skill rolls to avoid damage or penalties due to gravity in
environments greater than 0.25 G receive a bonus of +2. In environments of
less than 0.25 G the 225th receive no bonus.
As a faction, SLDF for example get a bonus to RAT equipment level based on the battle's location. But looks like that's it for their whole-faction rules.
Would only apply if you are roleplaying specific canon units. And I'm not sure how well balanced they are. Newer references are likely to have power creep over older stuff.
SiliconStew on
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
I’ve been doing a lot of thinking around how to balance IS vs Clan, and while I know that a) BV largely solves the problem and b) it’s a decades old subject, I would like to hear this threads thoughts on it.
BV is, I think a competitively fair measurement of power; however, the multiplier for speed means that there is a logarithmic “clamp” on a huge chunk of Clan mechs, making them just plain unviable in so many situations.
Have people found success with 2 lances vs 1 star, with some kind of tonnage limit? Or is Clan tech truly so OP as to merit BV in pretty much every one-off skirmish game?
I’ve been doing a lot of thinking around how to balance IS vs Clan, and while I know that a) BV largely solves the problem and b) it’s a decades old subject, I would like to hear this threads thoughts on it.
BV is, I think a competitively fair measurement of power; however, the multiplier for speed means that there is a logarithmic “clamp” on a huge chunk of Clan mechs, making them just plain unviable in so many situations.
Have people found success with 2 lances vs 1 star, with some kind of tonnage limit? Or is Clan tech truly so OP as to merit BV in pretty much every one-off skirmish game?
It really depends on a buttload of factors such as:
1. What era/tech level are we working with? 3025-3050 mechs are likely to have issues while dark ages era mechas are going to be pretty much at parity.
2. are the Clanners dealing with Zelbrigen and if so aat what honor level?
3. how are the clan's pilots relative to there spheroid counterparts?
Like, If I'm fielding a star of invasion era clan mechwarriors (so Gunnery 3 piloting 4) all piloting timberwolf primes against 2 lances of IS heavy lances (who'se baseline troops would be gunnery 4 piloting 5) I'm putting my money on the clanners pretty much every single time no matter what honor level they're restricted by because the tech edge is *huge*.
On the other hand, if we're talking say... 3067? When everyone is using RACs, C3, Gauss rifles and TSM? Things start to swing back around to the IS pretty hard.
I’ve been doing a lot of thinking around how to balance IS vs Clan, and while I know that a) BV largely solves the problem and b) it’s a decades old subject, I would like to hear this threads thoughts on it.
BV is, I think a competitively fair measurement of power; however, the multiplier for speed means that there is a logarithmic “clamp” on a huge chunk of Clan mechs, making them just plain unviable in so many situations.
Have people found success with 2 lances vs 1 star, with some kind of tonnage limit? Or is Clan tech truly so OP as to merit BV in pretty much every one-off skirmish game?
It really depends on a buttload of factors such as:
1. What era/tech level are we working with? 3025-3050 mechs are likely to have issues while dark ages era mechas are going to be pretty much at parity.
2. are the Clanners dealing with Zelbrigen and if so aat what honor level?
3. how are the clan's pilots relative to there spheroid counterparts?
Like, If I'm fielding a star of invasion era clan mechwarriors (so Gunnery 3 piloting 4) all piloting timberwolf primes against 2 lances of IS heavy lances (who'se baseline troops would be gunnery 4 piloting 5) I'm putting my money on the clanners pretty much every single time no matter what honor level they're restricted by because the tech edge is *huge*.
On the other hand, if we're talking say... 3067? When everyone is using RACs, C3, Gauss rifles and TSM? Things start to swing back around to the IS pretty hard.
I’m pretty familiar with these issues, I think the question I actually was asking is more along the lines of “what specific scenario types, rulesets, or force setups have people found a success with in the case of IS vs Clan?”.
I’ve been doing a lot of thinking around how to balance IS vs Clan, and while I know that a) BV largely solves the problem and b) it’s a decades old subject, I would like to hear this threads thoughts on it.
BV is, I think a competitively fair measurement of power; however, the multiplier for speed means that there is a logarithmic “clamp” on a huge chunk of Clan mechs, making them just plain unviable in so many situations.
Have people found success with 2 lances vs 1 star, with some kind of tonnage limit? Or is Clan tech truly so OP as to merit BV in pretty much every one-off skirmish game?
It really depends on a buttload of factors such as:
1. What era/tech level are we working with? 3025-3050 mechs are likely to have issues while dark ages era mechas are going to be pretty much at parity.
2. are the Clanners dealing with Zelbrigen and if so aat what honor level?
3. how are the clan's pilots relative to there spheroid counterparts?
Like, If I'm fielding a star of invasion era clan mechwarriors (so Gunnery 3 piloting 4) all piloting timberwolf primes against 2 lances of IS heavy lances (who'se baseline troops would be gunnery 4 piloting 5) I'm putting my money on the clanners pretty much every single time no matter what honor level they're restricted by because the tech edge is *huge*.
On the other hand, if we're talking say... 3067? When everyone is using RACs, C3, Gauss rifles and TSM? Things start to swing back around to the IS pretty hard.
I’m pretty familiar with these issues, I think the question I actually was asking is more along the lines of “what specific scenario types, rulesets, or force setups have people found a success with in the case of IS vs Clan?”.
So way back when, we'd do 1 (invasion) star vs 2 (3050) lances by weight limit determined by star total + the weight of the 3 heaviest in the star. Only gets a bit wonky at both ends of the spectrum. BV is much better, but that seemed to work pre-master unit list days.
We could never get a good rule of thumb for invasion vs 3025.
I’ve been doing a lot of thinking around how to balance IS vs Clan, and while I know that a) BV largely solves the problem and b) it’s a decades old subject, I would like to hear this threads thoughts on it.
BV is, I think a competitively fair measurement of power; however, the multiplier for speed means that there is a logarithmic “clamp” on a huge chunk of Clan mechs, making them just plain unviable in so many situations.
Have people found success with 2 lances vs 1 star, with some kind of tonnage limit? Or is Clan tech truly so OP as to merit BV in pretty much every one-off skirmish game?
It really depends on a buttload of factors such as:
1. What era/tech level are we working with? 3025-3050 mechs are likely to have issues while dark ages era mechas are going to be pretty much at parity.
2. are the Clanners dealing with Zelbrigen and if so aat what honor level?
3. how are the clan's pilots relative to there spheroid counterparts?
Like, If I'm fielding a star of invasion era clan mechwarriors (so Gunnery 3 piloting 4) all piloting timberwolf primes against 2 lances of IS heavy lances (who'se baseline troops would be gunnery 4 piloting 5) I'm putting my money on the clanners pretty much every single time no matter what honor level they're restricted by because the tech edge is *huge*.
On the other hand, if we're talking say... 3067? When everyone is using RACs, C3, Gauss rifles and TSM? Things start to swing back around to the IS pretty hard.
I’m pretty familiar with these issues, I think the question I actually was asking is more along the lines of “what specific scenario types, rulesets, or force setups have people found a success with in the case of IS vs Clan?”.
So way back when, we'd do 1 (invasion) star vs 2 (3050) lances by weight limit determined by star total + the weight of the 3 heaviest in the star. Only gets a bit wonky at both ends of the spectrum. BV is much better, but that seemed to work pre-master unit list days.
We could never get a good rule of thumb for invasion vs 3025.
That's a nicely useful formula to start with for sure; a sliding scale for tonnage that lets us play around a bit, and gives a good foundation, thanks.
BV is very good, the problem is that some units just get dealt a bad hand.
Case in point, the Nova Prime. Sure, yeah, 12 ERMlas is nasty, but like, it sinks 36 heat. You don't fire all those without a HUGE punishment. You're usually bringing to bear firepower just north a Hunchback-4P, and that's if you're not jumping. And if you jump, your lasers suddenly get a nasty hit penalty. It's not especially fast for the tonnage; 5/8 isn't bad, but it's not anywhere near the kind of engine other Clan mediums like to run with.
A 4/5 Nova Prime costs around 2.4k BV. It's even more expensive than a Mad Dog Prime, which sits at 2.3k.
The Dire Wolf Prime, the Clan's Biggest Stick, has 4 ERLlas, 4 MPlas, 2 UAC5s, and an LRM10. It does not care what you are, it will find you and kill you dead and not care about retaliation. The downside is it's slow as balls and doesn't jump, but you just don't care because the moment something reveals itself, they experience regret.
BV assumes reasonably well built mechs with a decent amount of heat sinking. No system that's going to give you a single comparable value for a mech is going to be totally balanced.
Huh. Apparently the most expensive (by BV 2.0) Clan battle armor you can get only costs 2050 for a full star of 25.
That feels like not a good return on investment, outside of the ability to be deployed by OmniMechs. Then yeah it might be worth it; otherwise I can't meaningfully see them doing anything other than covering the rear because they're so slow, even jumping they're Assault 'mech speeds.
e: Although the cheapest elemental armor is about half that "price" so I'm sure there's some graphic algebra you could apply to figure out the optimum armor to bring for your engagement, but that feels cheeky and at that point your Nova unit is going to be facing something bigger than a company. Augmented lances, at a minimum.
ee: wait someone help me out here, this is what Sarna says about Augmented Lances:
Their first successful experiment created an augmented 'Mech lance that combined four BattleMechs with two combat vehicles. This became the "standard" augmented 'Mech lance. A "secondary" augmented 'Mech lance was created by combining four BattleMechs with two squads of battle armored infantry. The CCAF then turned their attention to armor lances. The "standard" augmented armor lance combines four combat vehicles with two BattleMechs; The "secondary" augmented armor lance combines four combat vehicles with four squads of battle armor-equipped infantry
Is it just me or do "standard" and "secondary" both have two different definitions there?
The first part is about Mech Lances. The second part is about Armor Lances.
Lol oh yeah I see it now. So an Augmented Lance would be just a normal Lance ... plus an LRM Carrier and a Schrek (which I would modify to have Snub Nose PPCs to help defend the carriers)?
Battle armor is a real game changer when used properly; they can shred infantry and if they actually get close enough to melee a mech they're going to do catastrophic damage to the poor bastard.
On the other hand if they're caught out in the open they're basically just urban mechs.
Battle armor is a real game changer when used properly; they can shred infantry and if they actually get close enough to melee a mech they're going to do catastrophic damage to the poor bastard.
On the other hand if they're caught out in the open they're basically just urban mechs.
Yeah I feel like, looking at Clan units, even a full star of battle armor with second line mechs and no troop carrier they're gonna be pretty damn limited.
Battle armor plus a star of Omnis? That's dangerous. Hell, even just troop carriers to help get them into position is a big force multiplier to me.
NipsHe/HimLuxuriating in existential crisis.Registered Userregular
Another tactic that the main forums brought to light for me: screening for bigger, slower units. You move or position the battle armor so that anything that wants to close on your Fatties (e.g. Light anklebiters) has to deal with the shitstorm a few Elemental points can bring to bear at close range.
Also: Initiative sinking. Bringing some BA points helps you pad out the inevitable unit-count gap you're probably going to have against an IS force.
+2
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
Sometime next week I should have Empire Alone, the next ilClan sourcebook. I hope it is at least half as good as Tamar Rising.
The focus is on the Wolf Empire, Free Worlds League, Capellan Confederation, Marian Hegemony, Magistracy of Canopus, Duchy of Andurien, and Lyran Commonwealth. Which all sounds good to me.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
+1
H3KnucklesBut we decide which is rightand which is an illusion.Registered Userregular
edited July 2022
Do the Marians still practice slavery post-jihad? Fucking Roman-wannabes should be fed to lions.
Do the Marians still practice slavery post-jihad? Fucking Roman-wannabes should be fed to lions.
Eh, to be fair, most in the Inner Sphere engage in that. The only real difference is that they have the common decency to not be open about it. Even the freedom loving, bastion of goodness that is the Federated Suns have it. Even if they really, really, really like to pretend otherwise.
For the Clans it ranges in how they treat Bondsmen. For some you're more or less a temp-intern and for others oh yeah you are for all intents and purposes a slave.
In the Periphery, AFAIK, the only two that don't are Outworlds Alliance and Taurian Concordat (yeah the Magistracy practices it too). For the former I believe they still don't have anything that could be described, even charitably, as slavery even after merging with Clan Snow Raven. The Snow Ravens never cared too much for taking Bondsmen in the first place.
That all said, god I love hating the Marians. They make it so easy.
edit- I actually don't think the Combine does cause the FedSuns involvement with it is something the Combine throws in their face whenever the FedSuns get self-righteous.
edit 2- Though the Combine does do a lot of other stuff that isn't super great. So, glass houses and stones.
edit 3- Lyran Commonwealth doesn't and I think that one is legit. Capellan's have it outlawed, but YMMV on that one from world to world. Rasalhague I don't think ever did and even after the merger Ghost Bear always treated Bondsmen very well. The FWL does not and I'm pretty sure this one is also enforced.
edit 4- Worth noting that most all of civilized space is officially "against" slavery, but when you point to slavery in their domain they shoot back with the equivalent of, "It's society! They work for each other, Morty. They pay each other, they buy houses, they get married and make children that replace them when they get too old to make power."
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
Another tactic that the main forums brought to light for me: screening for bigger, slower units. You move or position the battle armor so that anything that wants to close on your Fatties (e.g. Light anklebiters) has to deal with the shitstorm a few Elemental points can bring to bear at close range.
Also: Initiative sinking. Bringing some BA points helps you pad out the inevitable unit-count gap you're probably going to have against an IS force.
Yep! Thought of exactly that when I saw these guys:
The Amazon has a Modular Weapon Mount on the right arm which can be configured to support either a Medium Recoilless Rifle or a Support PPC. The left arm carries a Battle Claw which allows Amazon pilots to make anti-'Mech attacks or ride an Omnimech into battle.
Do the Marians still practice slavery post-jihad? Fucking Roman-wannabes should be fed to lions.
Eh, to be fair, most in the Inner Sphere engage in that. The only real difference is that they have the common decency to not be open about it. Even the freedom loving, bastion of goodness that is the Federated Suns have it. Even if they really, really, really like to pretend otherwise.
For the Clans it ranges in how they treat Bondsmen. For some you're more or less a temp-intern and for others oh yeah you are for all intents and purposes a slave.
In the Periphery, AFAIK, the only two that don't are Outworlds Alliance and Taurian Concordat (yeah the Magistracy practices it too). For the former I believe they still don't have anything that could be described, even charitably, as slavery even after merging with Clan Snow Raven. The Snow Ravens never cared too much for taking Bondsmen in the first place.
That all said, god I love hating the Marians. They make it so easy.
edit- I actually don't think the Combine does cause the FedSuns involvement with it is something the Combine throws in their face whenever the FedSuns get self-righteous.
edit 2- Though the Combine does do a lot of other stuff that isn't super great. So, glass houses and stones.
edit 3- Lyran Commonwealth doesn't and I think that one is legit. Capellan's have it outlawed, but YMMV on that one from world to world. Rasalhague I don't think ever did and even after the merger Ghost Bear always treated Bondsmen very well. The FWL does not and I'm pretty sure this one is also enforced.
edit 4- Worth noting that most all of civilized space is officially "against" slavery, but when you point to slavery in their domain they shoot back with the equivalent of, "It's society! They work for each other, Morty. They pay each other, they buy houses, they get married and make children that replace them when they get too old to make power."
On Canopus, this thread on the official site seems to suggest that there's a discrepancy between official lore (including sections in Handbook: Major Periphery States) & a rules table also from Handbook: Major Periphery States. Freelance writer Chris Hartford tries to reconcile it, but the thread otherwise went unadressed. Sarna's MoC article doesn't seem to have anything about it one way or the other.
Capellans have a 'servitor' class (anyone who hadn't qualified for citizenship, which meant most of the population through the Succession Wars) that had no rights until Sun-Tzu Liao implemented reforms in the 3050's. They were for all intents and purposes slaves, but their kids were considered 'born free' unless and until they failed to get citizenship.
Do the Marians still practice slavery post-jihad? Fucking Roman-wannabes should be fed to lions.
Eh, to be fair, most in the Inner Sphere engage in that. The only real difference is that they have the common decency to not be open about it. Even the freedom loving, bastion of goodness that is the Federated Suns have it. Even if they really, really, really like to pretend otherwise.
For the Clans it ranges in how they treat Bondsmen. For some you're more or less a temp-intern and for others oh yeah you are for all intents and purposes a slave.
In the Periphery, AFAIK, the only two that don't are Outworlds Alliance and Taurian Concordat (yeah the Magistracy practices it too). For the former I believe they still don't have anything that could be described, even charitably, as slavery even after merging with Clan Snow Raven. The Snow Ravens never cared too much for taking Bondsmen in the first place.
That all said, god I love hating the Marians. They make it so easy.
edit- I actually don't think the Combine does cause the FedSuns involvement with it is something the Combine throws in their face whenever the FedSuns get self-righteous.
edit 2- Though the Combine does do a lot of other stuff that isn't super great. So, glass houses and stones.
edit 3- Lyran Commonwealth doesn't and I think that one is legit. Capellan's have it outlawed, but YMMV on that one from world to world. Rasalhague I don't think ever did and even after the merger Ghost Bear always treated Bondsmen very well. The FWL does not and I'm pretty sure this one is also enforced.
edit 4- Worth noting that most all of civilized space is officially "against" slavery, but when you point to slavery in their domain they shoot back with the equivalent of, "It's society! They work for each other, Morty. They pay each other, they buy houses, they get married and make children that replace them when they get too old to make power."
On Canopus, this thread on the official site seems to suggest that there's a discrepancy between official lore (including sections in Handbook: Major Periphery States) & a rules table also from Handbook: Major Periphery States. Freelance writer Chris Hartford tries to reconcile it, but the thread otherwise went unadressed. Sarna's MoC article doesn't seem to have anything about it one way or the other.
Capellans have a 'servitor' class (anyone who hadn't qualified for citizenship, which meant most of the population through the Succession Wars) that had no rights until Sun-Tzu Liao implemented reforms in the 3050's. They were for all intents and purposes slaves, but their kids were considered 'born free' unless and until they failed to get citizenship.
IIRC (and it has been some time) for the Magistracy it was of the Indentured Servitude variety. Which, eh, whether or not that is slavery seems to vary from person to person. I consider as such.
But that is a good example of what I meant by most civilized space being against slavery while still having slavery. FedSuns for example outlaw it, but serfs that are bound to a plot of land and denied access to technology, education and live and die at the whim of their local lord? Well, that is fine. That's totally different from slavery. FedSuns allow planetary rulers to govern their worlds in any manner they wish. So what you get is an extreme disparity in quality of life. Some worlds are functionally no different than modern western democracies while others are more 18th Century Russian Serfdom. This fact is something the Draconis Combine love, love, love to bring up.
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
Battle armor is a real game changer when used properly; they can shred infantry and if they actually get close enough to melee a mech they're going to do catastrophic damage to the poor bastard.
On the other hand if they're caught out in the open they're basically just urban mechs.
Yeah I feel like, looking at Clan units, even a full star of battle armor with second line mechs and no troop carrier they're gonna be pretty damn limited.
Battle armor plus a star of Omnis? That's dangerous. Hell, even just troop carriers to help get them into position is a big force multiplier to me.
Like take a look at this:
This is the firemoth; amongst the oldest of the omnimechs and first fielded in 2874 for the express purpose of getting battle armor where they need to be; like the reason those arms are so high up was so that elementals could hang off of them while it hurtles around the map at a running speed of 16 or 21 if you turn on MASC.
With that much speed you can basically plant these little bastards wherever you want on the map, whether that's in a forest or an objective or right up an atlas's ass.
Also can I just point out how hilarious it is that people people deify the urbie when you can field a full star of elementals with flamers for 320 points, and each of those points can:
fire off a single SRM 2 (so ten missiles for 20 damage)
Flamer you (5 shots means either 10 damage, 10 heat or terrible things to infantry and ICE vehicles
melee you (upwards of 10 damage and I'm not entirely sure how easily a mech can actually fight off forces once grappled)
That's per 64 BV unit, a squad of 5 of these fuckers will eat any mech that they can get up against and I'm pretty sure even 3150 mechs can't handle a build up of 50 heat in a single turn.
Like christ, the inner sphere took the threat of battle armor so seriously that the Combine went and built this fucker:
The Komodo is expressly built to kill elementals which it does exceedingly well; 10 medium lasers will delete a full point per round, the 2 AMS will shred SRMS, it's 5/8/5 keeps it out of the danger zone, ECM because their was empty space I guess and if it just doesn't feel like engaging because the pilot has gorged himself too heavily on elementals already that's fine because he has TAG so artillery teams can yeet some arrow IVs.
Posts
Speed paint base and painted on fancy bits
Welp, guess I've got me a Davion unit! That's why I used test dudes.
Steam: betsuni7
Dice are cool. More card decks are...whatever. Free money is....dangerous, because it means I'll spend MORE money. Checkmate, CGL, well played.
@Nips hows this for Syns Hussars?
Bonus Grasshopper
I'm sure it's been asked but my search-fu is weak tonight.
i mean, technically no. But id HIGHLY recommend it. And a clear matt spray at the end to seal it all from grubby fingers.
@AvalonGuard
Turns out, it sounds like a BLAST to run, and the model looks fantastic, so I'll have to make sure to grab one.
FYI, that model isn't out yet. It'll come in the Battletech Alpha Strike box set, expected to come out third quarter/late this year.
Personally: I think the base color and recess shading is solid, but the highlighted panels could be pushed harder toward jade. They read a little more yellow-green or a desaturated midtone green to me than jade. This is, of course, extremely nitpicky so YMMV.
https://www.reddit.com/r/battletech/comments/chbi0b/a_question_about_the_factions/
ok, at least im not crazy in thinking the jade color isnt jady enough.
but comparing the pics on here to the mini the pics are 100% more yellow than they actually are in person, so i'll roll with it.
no one faction has any special abilities over any other, but each faction has units that appear in the rosters more frequently than others. But RATs are more a flavor thing. A bunch exist out there somewhere and allows you to roll up units based on what that faction would typically run. I know there in source books somewhere, but i cant think of which ones off the top of my head.
AH! According to my handy dandy Battleforce book they should be in Total Warfare amongst others
YEP! page 267.
He's not talking about the RAT tables but the unit specific rules from the Field Manuals. Such as:
191st Royal BattleMech Division: The Zavijava Division automatically
wins the Initiative Roll for the first four rounds of gameplay. In addition,
players using ’Mechs of the Royal Black Watch regiment may select any
’Mech or tank from the Royal Tables of the RAT (see pp. 241-242)
225th Mechanized Infantry Division: The 225th is adept at low gravity
operations. Any skill rolls to avoid damage or penalties due to gravity in
environments greater than 0.25 G receive a bonus of +2. In environments of
less than 0.25 G the 225th receive no bonus.
As a faction, SLDF for example get a bonus to RAT equipment level based on the battle's location. But looks like that's it for their whole-faction rules.
Would only apply if you are roleplaying specific canon units. And I'm not sure how well balanced they are. Newer references are likely to have power creep over older stuff.
BV is, I think a competitively fair measurement of power; however, the multiplier for speed means that there is a logarithmic “clamp” on a huge chunk of Clan mechs, making them just plain unviable in so many situations.
Have people found success with 2 lances vs 1 star, with some kind of tonnage limit? Or is Clan tech truly so OP as to merit BV in pretty much every one-off skirmish game?
It really depends on a buttload of factors such as:
1. What era/tech level are we working with? 3025-3050 mechs are likely to have issues while dark ages era mechas are going to be pretty much at parity.
2. are the Clanners dealing with Zelbrigen and if so aat what honor level?
3. how are the clan's pilots relative to there spheroid counterparts?
Like, If I'm fielding a star of invasion era clan mechwarriors (so Gunnery 3 piloting 4) all piloting timberwolf primes against 2 lances of IS heavy lances (who'se baseline troops would be gunnery 4 piloting 5) I'm putting my money on the clanners pretty much every single time no matter what honor level they're restricted by because the tech edge is *huge*.
On the other hand, if we're talking say... 3067? When everyone is using RACs, C3, Gauss rifles and TSM? Things start to swing back around to the IS pretty hard.
I’m pretty familiar with these issues, I think the question I actually was asking is more along the lines of “what specific scenario types, rulesets, or force setups have people found a success with in the case of IS vs Clan?”.
So way back when, we'd do 1 (invasion) star vs 2 (3050) lances by weight limit determined by star total + the weight of the 3 heaviest in the star. Only gets a bit wonky at both ends of the spectrum. BV is much better, but that seemed to work pre-master unit list days.
We could never get a good rule of thumb for invasion vs 3025.
That's a nicely useful formula to start with for sure; a sliding scale for tonnage that lets us play around a bit, and gives a good foundation, thanks.
BV is very good, the problem is that some units just get dealt a bad hand.
Case in point, the Nova Prime. Sure, yeah, 12 ERMlas is nasty, but like, it sinks 36 heat. You don't fire all those without a HUGE punishment. You're usually bringing to bear firepower just north a Hunchback-4P, and that's if you're not jumping. And if you jump, your lasers suddenly get a nasty hit penalty. It's not especially fast for the tonnage; 5/8 isn't bad, but it's not anywhere near the kind of engine other Clan mediums like to run with.
A 4/5 Nova Prime costs around 2.4k BV. It's even more expensive than a Mad Dog Prime, which sits at 2.3k.
The Dire Wolf Prime, the Clan's Biggest Stick, has 4 ERLlas, 4 MPlas, 2 UAC5s, and an LRM10. It does not care what you are, it will find you and kill you dead and not care about retaliation. The downside is it's slow as balls and doesn't jump, but you just don't care because the moment something reveals itself, they experience regret.
A Dire Wolf costs 2.7k with a 4/5 pilot.
BV is very good! Mostly.
Could probably drop a lance and convert one star to armor and I'd wager it'd still be relatively close (even armored, infantry is slow)
This is wild guessing
Now I just need to find the time to print up a few.
That feels like not a good return on investment, outside of the ability to be deployed by OmniMechs. Then yeah it might be worth it; otherwise I can't meaningfully see them doing anything other than covering the rear because they're so slow, even jumping they're Assault 'mech speeds.
e: Although the cheapest elemental armor is about half that "price" so I'm sure there's some graphic algebra you could apply to figure out the optimum armor to bring for your engagement, but that feels cheeky and at that point your Nova unit is going to be facing something bigger than a company. Augmented lances, at a minimum.
ee: wait someone help me out here, this is what Sarna says about Augmented Lances:
Is it just me or do "standard" and "secondary" both have two different definitions there?
Lol oh yeah I see it now. So an Augmented Lance would be just a normal Lance ... plus an LRM Carrier and a Schrek (which I would modify to have Snub Nose PPCs to help defend the carriers)?
That sounds fun
On the other hand if they're caught out in the open they're basically just urban mechs.
Yeah I feel like, looking at Clan units, even a full star of battle armor with second line mechs and no troop carrier they're gonna be pretty damn limited.
Battle armor plus a star of Omnis? That's dangerous. Hell, even just troop carriers to help get them into position is a big force multiplier to me.
Also: Initiative sinking. Bringing some BA points helps you pad out the inevitable unit-count gap you're probably going to have against an IS force.
The focus is on the Wolf Empire, Free Worlds League, Capellan Confederation, Marian Hegemony, Magistracy of Canopus, Duchy of Andurien, and Lyran Commonwealth. Which all sounds good to me.
Eh, to be fair, most in the Inner Sphere engage in that. The only real difference is that they have the common decency to not be open about it. Even the freedom loving, bastion of goodness that is the Federated Suns have it. Even if they really, really, really like to pretend otherwise.
For the Clans it ranges in how they treat Bondsmen. For some you're more or less a temp-intern and for others oh yeah you are for all intents and purposes a slave.
In the Periphery, AFAIK, the only two that don't are Outworlds Alliance and Taurian Concordat (yeah the Magistracy practices it too). For the former I believe they still don't have anything that could be described, even charitably, as slavery even after merging with Clan Snow Raven. The Snow Ravens never cared too much for taking Bondsmen in the first place.
That all said, god I love hating the Marians. They make it so easy.
edit- I actually don't think the Combine does cause the FedSuns involvement with it is something the Combine throws in their face whenever the FedSuns get self-righteous.
edit 2- Though the Combine does do a lot of other stuff that isn't super great. So, glass houses and stones.
edit 3- Lyran Commonwealth doesn't and I think that one is legit. Capellan's have it outlawed, but YMMV on that one from world to world. Rasalhague I don't think ever did and even after the merger Ghost Bear always treated Bondsmen very well. The FWL does not and I'm pretty sure this one is also enforced.
edit 4- Worth noting that most all of civilized space is officially "against" slavery, but when you point to slavery in their domain they shoot back with the equivalent of, "It's society! They work for each other, Morty. They pay each other, they buy houses, they get married and make children that replace them when they get too old to make power."
Yep! Thought of exactly that when I saw these guys:
Speed of an Annihilator, and basically a slightly weaker ML, each. And they can ride Omnis.
And a Heavy APC can carry a squad of 6 of them.
AND they're from the Magistery of Canopus. Because fuck it.
On Canopus, this thread on the official site seems to suggest that there's a discrepancy between official lore (including sections in Handbook: Major Periphery States) & a rules table also from Handbook: Major Periphery States. Freelance writer Chris Hartford tries to reconcile it, but the thread otherwise went unadressed. Sarna's MoC article doesn't seem to have anything about it one way or the other.
Capellans have a 'servitor' class (anyone who hadn't qualified for citizenship, which meant most of the population through the Succession Wars) that had no rights until Sun-Tzu Liao implemented reforms in the 3050's. They were for all intents and purposes slaves, but their kids were considered 'born free' unless and until they failed to get citizenship.
I just got my copy yesterday, and I'm only through the opening story, and I can say I'm already at Full Hype to consume the rest.
IIRC (and it has been some time) for the Magistracy it was of the Indentured Servitude variety. Which, eh, whether or not that is slavery seems to vary from person to person. I consider as such.
But that is a good example of what I meant by most civilized space being against slavery while still having slavery. FedSuns for example outlaw it, but serfs that are bound to a plot of land and denied access to technology, education and live and die at the whim of their local lord? Well, that is fine. That's totally different from slavery. FedSuns allow planetary rulers to govern their worlds in any manner they wish. So what you get is an extreme disparity in quality of life. Some worlds are functionally no different than modern western democracies while others are more 18th Century Russian Serfdom. This fact is something the Draconis Combine love, love, love to bring up.
Like take a look at this:
This is the firemoth; amongst the oldest of the omnimechs and first fielded in 2874 for the express purpose of getting battle armor where they need to be; like the reason those arms are so high up was so that elementals could hang off of them while it hurtles around the map at a running speed of 16 or 21 if you turn on MASC.
With that much speed you can basically plant these little bastards wherever you want on the map, whether that's in a forest or an objective or right up an atlas's ass.
- fire off a single SRM 2 (so ten missiles for 20 damage)
- Flamer you (5 shots means either 10 damage, 10 heat or terrible things to infantry and ICE vehicles
- melee you (upwards of 10 damage and I'm not entirely sure how easily a mech can actually fight off forces once grappled)
That's per 64 BV unit, a squad of 5 of these fuckers will eat any mech that they can get up against and I'm pretty sure even 3150 mechs can't handle a build up of 50 heat in a single turn.Like christ, the inner sphere took the threat of battle armor so seriously that the Combine went and built this fucker:
The Komodo is expressly built to kill elementals which it does exceedingly well; 10 medium lasers will delete a full point per round, the 2 AMS will shred SRMS, it's 5/8/5 keeps it out of the danger zone, ECM because their was empty space I guess and if it just doesn't feel like engaging because the pilot has gorged himself too heavily on elementals already that's fine because he has TAG so artillery teams can yeet some arrow IVs.