No more Terrorbyte until DNF and Prey together, eh? that might be some time in infinity +1.
I'll miss the little bugger, because, let's face it. No trolls. That means you can have one.
The more trolls I notice each day, the more I'm inclined to see the move from jailing to very short tempbans. Jailing is just a minor thing, but not being able to post sends a message that what you did won't be tolerated. There should be a written warning before it happens if its relatively minor though, but that happens most of the time anyways.
So jailing/banning's really a six step process? Heh. I always assumed there was just an extra button along with the aim/pm/etc ones.
Mighty J on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
So jailing/banning's really a six step process? Heh. I always assumed there was just an extra button along with the aim/pm/etc ones.
For jailing, to do it properly, you need to hit the jail button, edit the automatic jail PM to mention what rule was broken, then post the jailing in the mod forum for others to see. For a banning, you need to look for expired bans, delete the old ones if necessary, put in the new one, then post in the mod forum and MD about what happened. If it's for something like a goatse raid, you also need to clean up the mess.
So yeah, it can be a bit of work. Not complaining, mind you, just highlighting that jailings and bannings aren't really trivial to do.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
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DynagripBreak me a million heartsHoustonRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited December 2006
Man, what are you talking about. They are so easy to do.
You know, people were being a little unfair to Zephos in that thread. Maybe he was offering his insight just in case someone else in the PA community ever found themselves in that awful, awful situation. Telling him to "get out get out get out" was really retarded. That entire thread was horrible, and Terrorbyte was just the anchor weighing it down. That "get out get out get out" kneejerk shit without at least giving the other person a chance to explain himself should really garner bans.
You know, people were being a little unfair to Zephos in that thread. Maybe he was offering his insight just in case someone else in the PA community ever found themselves in that awful, awful situation. Telling him to "get out get out get out" was really retarded. That entire thread was horrible, and Terrorbyte was just the anchor weighing it down. That "get out get out get out" kneejerk shit without at least giving the other person a chance to explain himself should really garner bans.
people generally react badly when someone refers to the recently deceased as stupid, in multiple ways
especially then, when someone is told to drop it, they don't and then try and say "SEE SEE I WAS RIGHT".
You know, people were being a little unfair to Zephos in that thread. Maybe he was offering his insight just in case someone else in the PA community ever found themselves in that awful, awful situation. Telling him to "get out get out get out" was really retarded. That entire thread was horrible, and Terrorbyte was just the anchor weighing it down. That "get out get out get out" kneejerk shit without at least giving the other person a chance to explain himself should really garner bans.
people generally react badly when someone refers to the recently deceased as stupid, in multiple ways
especially then, when someone is told to drop it, they don't and then try and say "SEE SEE I WAS RIGHT".
So we can't even criticize a decision that some guy made that cost him his life? While maybe not handled as gracefully as it could have been (but this is an internet forum after all), Zephos did have a point and he didn't start off being an asshole about it. But you know what the first response to his post was? "You are a fucking cunt." Granted that was from Zodiac Brave, who is apparently mentally imbalanced, but very few people tried to approach it from any way other than "How can you post he made a stupid decision in a thread that says he died?"
I'm not really sure what some expected of the thread. It seemed like some people just wanted everyone to sit around, hold hands and post about how sad it was. Yeah, welcome to the internet.
You know, people were being a little unfair to Zephos in that thread. Maybe he was offering his insight just in case someone else in the PA community ever found themselves in that awful, awful situation. Telling him to "get out get out get out" was really retarded. That entire thread was horrible, and Terrorbyte was just the anchor weighing it down. That "get out get out get out" kneejerk shit without at least giving the other person a chance to explain himself should really garner bans.
people generally react badly when someone refers to the recently deceased as stupid, in multiple ways
especially then, when someone is told to drop it, they don't and then try and say "SEE SEE I WAS RIGHT".
So we can't even criticize a decision that some guy made that cost him his life? While maybe not handled as gracefully as it could have been (but this is an internet forum after all), Zephos did have a point and he didn't start off being an asshole about it. But you know what the first response to his post was? "You are a fucking cunt." Granted that was from Zodiac Brave, who is apparently mentally imbalanced, but very few people tried to approach it from any way other than "How can you post he made a stupid decision in a thread that says he died?"
I'm not really sure what some expected of the thread. It seemed like some people just wanted everyone to sit around, hold hands and post about how sad it was. Yeah, welcome to the internet.
Maybe the content of the post was not made in a malicious manner, but there is such a thing as tact. Speaking ill of the dead is generally bad form when people are still in the grieving/mourning process. G&T probably did take it too far, as seems to be the norm nowaddays, but if he was honestly not expecting to catch shit for his comments (shit which he rightfully deserved, in my opinion) then that's just plain silly.
Concerning the immediate jailing of people posting in spamthreads, I'd like to suggest that only one post is allowed, if they use a keyword that mods can easily search for, to remove such threads. Something like "spamlockplz", where using the word outside such threads is jailable.
This is an alternative to all the mods being spammed back with requests to lock the spamthreads. Variations on this include the first poster being the only one to PM the mods about the thread.
You know, people were being a little unfair to Zephos in that thread. Maybe he was offering his insight just in case someone else in the PA community ever found themselves in that awful, awful situation. Telling him to "get out get out get out" was really retarded. That entire thread was horrible, and Terrorbyte was just the anchor weighing it down. That "get out get out get out" kneejerk shit without at least giving the other person a chance to explain himself should really garner bans.
people generally react badly when someone refers to the recently deceased as stupid, in multiple ways
especially then, when someone is told to drop it, they don't and then try and say "SEE SEE I WAS RIGHT".
So we can't even criticize a decision that some guy made that cost him his life? While maybe not handled as gracefully as it could have been (but this is an internet forum after all), Zephos did have a point and he didn't start off being an asshole about it. But you know what the first response to his post was? "You are a fucking cunt." Granted that was from Zodiac Brave, who is apparently mentally imbalanced, but very few people tried to approach it from any way other than "How can you post he made a stupid decision in a thread that says he died?"
I'm not really sure what some expected of the thread. It seemed like some people just wanted everyone to sit around, hold hands and post about how sad it was. Yeah, welcome to the internet.
this
he stupidly left his family.
He went off gallivanting alone in territory he wasn't familiar with and died from probably exposure while his family was saved.
I don't quite understand why he would just go off like that considering the conditions.
I know I've never been in that situation but i do spend quite a bit of time outdoors and have taken hunter's safety along with reading about some basic survival skills.
it was just stupid of him to leave them.
He should have followed one of the first rules of survial and STAYED PUT.
they had shelter, probably not food, unless they had some left over from the diner, and they were on vacation so there was at least snacks.
Doesn't come off as assholish and condescending to you?
as for "G&T overreacting" to Zephos continually criticized the decisions the Kims made, right down to Kati Kim nursing her children to help them survive (ironically, the initial comment seemed innocent, but his next post on it revealed that he was indeed criticizing hte decision).
This is after his post
Incidentally, here we have an article from the Seattle times echoing my sentiments exactly.
t Lanz: He didn't say he was stupid. He said he shouldn't have gotten out of the car. He was trying to provide information. If you want to infer that James Kim was stupid for doing something stupid, then go right ahead, but I didn't see Zephos saying or even implying that he was stupid...he was simply pointing out that his actions were incorrect.
t Javen: The way I see it, the "shit" hurled at Zephos was completely undeserved. If anything, Zodiac Brave shit all over the thread, not Zephos, and it was the kneejerk reactionary nature of the posters in that thread that caused the downfall of the thread (well, that and Terrorbyte who was just awful). Zephos was posting on-topic useful information in a thread about someone's death. I've never read that you should "stay put" and frankly, other than Kami with her original post, the only other poster in that entire thread that I valued was Zephos, for the information he was giving.
Yes, there IS something called tact. Shitting in a thread because someone offers information which may not color the recently deceased in the best light is what I consider a complete LACK of tact. Zephos didn't really lack tact there, but almost everyone else did.
EDIT:
Zephos wrote: "he stupidly left his family."
Lanz wrote: "Doesn't come off as assholish and condescending to you?"
OK, so he did use the term "stupid." I'll retract that piece of my statement.
However, no, I don't think he is being condescending. I think people grieve, if you can call it that, in different ways. Some people get angry at loved ones when they die in stupid way. If James Kim really had read up on survival techniques as Zephos insisted, then yes, he was being stupid.
And this could serve as a lesson to other would-be campers that were perusing the thread.
I see nothing wrong with calling James Kim's actions "stupid" given the information. Hindsight is what it is, sure, and we don't know too much about the particulars, but Zephos even says "I don't know why he would..." because he doesn't. It doesn't mean he shouldn't be able to comment on proper survival procedure.
My point is G&T has to get away from that one-sided mentality. Sorry, but it is a forum, populated by a vast array of people and their differing personalities, opinions, and philosophies. People are all too ready and willing to discredit someone that doesn't agree with their own line of thinking, and THAT is what causes mayhem on the forum, NOT the difference of opinion but the unwillingness to ACCEPT different opinions.
Would I have presented the information the same way Zephos did? Maybe, maybe not, but really...what he was saying wasn't that bad, and you have plenty of examples in that thread (Terrorbyte's posts, for example) to compare Zephos' to. It's pretty obvious to me that Zephos wasn't trolling, he was simply stating that this wasn't the correct or best way to ensure one's survival in this situation given the following information, which he provided.
Regardless of whether his intentions were noble or to stroke his own ego (the only person familiar with Zephos' intentions is Zephos), the posts are not that bad. People automatically assume that other people are posting for selfish reasons or just to be annoying, and those people really need to stop doing that.
I'm normally not terribly outspoken and really enjoy my time on the boards (so please don't jail me for this ) and I'm sorry if I'm pushing on things that maybe have been discussed to overkill in the past, but here's my general forum brainstorm:
Mods and Admin need to accept the fact that the various areas of the message boards are, and will always remain, separate communities and should be treated that way. The recent changes to G&T have done nothing but hurt that community.
I have been at least a semi-regular G&T poster for some time now. I was one that felt upset with the removal of the megathreads and still feel that their loss is a huge mistake - that community feeling of DS owners was what drew me into posting more actively in the first place. In addition, although I rarely posted there, I feel that the removal of the G&T chat thread was the wrong thing to do. What you effectively did was took smaller communites and broke them up entirely. I understand the hope was that it would create more smaller threads or maybe cross some of the chatters into SE, but it hasn't, it's just killed those small communities with, as far as I can see, no positive benefits reaped.
If you wanted to make the boards more inviting to newcomers the frequent jailings should lighten up as well. Jailing for stuff like posting in spam threads, too large an image embedded, and minor stuff like that just creates a bunch of matching, annoying avatars and screws up quote trees and generally uglies up the boards for us and newbies. Why not at least PM someone, say "Hey, no posting in spam thread, this is your 1 warning" first? I mean, yes, it's in the rules, but it still seems a bit heavyhanded and certainly doesn't make the boards the fun community you seem to want.
I mean what type of message is "If you make fun of a broken english spammer you get jailed"? It's certainly not the mouthy, foul mouthed PA forums that I enjoy. The G&T forum is starting to resemble a news site. Ask an opinion question? It could be a poll thread and get locked. Ask an offtopic question? Take it to SE++. Make fun of a spammer? Jailed for a bit. It feels like the fun is slowly being pulled out of G&T and it's sad to watch. Just my 2 cents.
My point is G&T has to get away from that one-sided mentality. Sorry, but it is a forum, populated by a vast array of people and their differing personalities, opinions, and philosophies. People are all too ready and willing to discredit someone that doesn't agree with their own line of thinking, and THAT is what causes mayhem on the forum, NOT the difference of opinion but the unwillingness to ACCEPT different opinions.
Would I have presented the information the same way Zephos did? Maybe, maybe not, but really...what he was saying wasn't that bad, and you have plenty of examples in that thread (Terrorbyte's posts, for example) to compare Zephos' to. It's pretty obvious to me that Zephos wasn't trolling, he was simply stating that this wasn't the correct or best way to ensure one's survival in this situation given the following information, which he provided.
Regardless of whether his intentions were noble or to stroke his own ego (the only person familiar with Zephos' intentions is Zephos), the posts are not that bad. People automatically assume that other people are posting for selfish reasons or just to be annoying, and those people really need to stop doing that.
notice that there were other's who talked on survival tips and so on, and were not attacked?
And Zephos was?
What does that tell you? cause it tells me G&T isn't as bad as you're trying to claim it is. They just don't take well to people being assholes.
Lanz on
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DynagripBreak me a million heartsHoustonRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited December 2006
No, they love it. As long as they have a mod badge, then they get to lick their boots clean.
Lanz: Well, I don't think Zephos was being an asshole. I don't care if twelve other people posted survival tips and Zephos was still the only person they attacked, it doesn't tell me anything except that the posters there were acting like a bunch of oversensitive ninnies. Oh, so he didn't post his opinions in a tone they liked? Whoopdifucking do. That's no reason to shit all over Zephos and the thread, which is what happened.
The fact that other people posted survival tips and they harped on Zephos only proves my point.
Lanz: Well, I don't think Zephos was being an asshole. I don't care if twelve other people posted survival tips and Zephos was still the only person they attacked, it doesn't tell me anything except that the posters there were acting like a bunch of oversensitive ninnies. Oh, so he didn't post his opinions in a tone they liked? Whoopdifucking do. That's no reason to shit all over Zephos and the thread, which is what happened.
The fact that other people posted survival tips and they harped on Zephos only proves my point.
no, it seems more like you want to go on this strange "G&T MUST CHANGE!" thing.
Give me one logical reason why Zephos and no one else got targetted? What, do you think G&T just needs a whippying boy every now and then?
it is not being an "oversensitive ninny" to scold someone for acting like a douche in regards to someone's death, especially when they are given the message to stop harping on the same opinion that people are finding offensive and a slap in the face of the dead.
and who "shat all over the thread"? aside from people making crass jokes?
Also the whole grieving and mourning thing just doesn't fly. This wasn't a forumer posting about how his father had died, this was a news article about a CNet Editor, who from all accounts no one here knew personally. There's different etiquette you follow under different circumstances, and while you personally may have found someone saying he made a stupid decision distasteful, that's no reason to drag down the thread.
And why can't we say what he did was stupid? If someone is killed by train because they ran through a barrier, am I not allowed to say that was a stupid decision even if it felt right to that person at that time?
Zodiac Brave did shit all over it. Then he shit all over G&T in general, D&D and even the treehouse. Terrorbyte did, too, but it was obvious he was trolling, some people just took it too far.
G&T does need to change. Nothing can be discussed unless it's just a big circle jerk.
Invisible on
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DynagripBreak me a million heartsHoustonRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited December 2006
If you guys want insensitive, read the SE++ version of the James Kim death thread.
"What, do you think G&T just needs a whippying boy every now and then?"
Yes, exactly. Unless they are crucifying someone publicly, many of the people clinging like barnacles to yesterday's G&T are unhappy. They like to pounce on anyone that isn't in their - as Invisible put it - "circle jerk," and throw the book at this outcast immediately, in full cliquish form.
Who was shitting on the thread besides Hensler and Terrorbyte? Zodiac Brave, for one. He wasn't as bad as Terrorbyte, but he came goddamn close to being just as bad. As someone in the thread indicated (I wasn't around before it was locked), Zodiac Brave drove him away, not Terrorbyte. He would have driven me away too. Terrorbyte was an unfunny, annoying nuisance. Zodiac Brave, on the other hand, started spewing venom and vomit in the thread every other post. You could ignore Terrorbyte easily. You could not ignore Zodiac Brave at all.
G&T's cliquish, one-sided, rigid nature has to go. It's goddamn ridiculous, and people act as though every thread is an appreciation thread and try to shout people that disagree down or assassinate their characters as trolls, when they aren't. Circle-jerks don't foster communication, they foster negativity and nonsense.
I'm not saying that everyone acts this way. But many do. I hope they go away.
Seriously, just saying "you guys suck because you were mean to this one guy who was kind of being insensitive" is one of the worst arguments I've heard.
I'm not saying "you guys suck" because you were being mean to an insensitive poster.
I'm saying the people posting against Zephos are a bunch of jackasses that should be banned and acting that way in the future should get any poster banned. At least, that's my suggestion for this "policies and procedures" thread. It's not an argument so much as it's a suggestion.
Getting rid of all the shitty pack-mentality vaginas in G&T would make it a much better place to post.
If you guys want insensitive, read the SE++ version of the James Kim death thread.
I have.
It is.
So were people in the G&T one.
one thread being more insensitive does not make the asshole comments in the other not asshole comments.
not to mention the several counts of G&T bashing in there after Zephos popped in there (I can't remember if there was any beforehand), complaining about how G&T was "apparently srs bznezz."
and reading further in the thread (pg44), a random shot at the splinter forums. quaint.
But Zephos brought all the Sony, Nintendo, PC, and Xbox circle jerkers together into one giant circle jerk to spew their seamen at him.
Pack mentality isn't good, I agree, but for once at least it was being used against someone who really was rather out of line. Regardless of how right Zephos may have been his posts were antagonizing in nature. You and I may not see eye to eye on that, and I'm sorry, but he really should have backed off or at least been more respectful.
I'm not saying "you guys suck" because you were being mean to an insensitive poster.
I'm saying the people posting against Zephos a bunch of jackasses that should be banned and acting that way in the future should get any poster banned. At least, that's my suggestion for this "policies and procedures" thread. It's not an argument so much as it's a suggestion.
Getting rid of all the shitty pack-mentality vaginas in G&T would make it a much better place to post.
Says the person in jail. :P
If you think it's a problem, start citing examples and stop calling names.
If you think it's a problem, start citing examples and stop calling names.
srsly.
If "pack mentality" is a forum epidemic, then the moderators need to start curbing such behavior as it crops up instead of letting things snowball to the point where sweeping changes are handed down at a moment's notice and nobody has a fucking clue why.
"What, do you think G&T just needs a whippying boy every now and then?"
Yes, exactly. Unless they are crucifying someone publicly, many of the people clinging like barnacles to yesterday's G&T are unhappy. They like to pounce on anyone that isn't in their - as Invisible put it - "circle jerk," and throw the book at this outcast immediately, in full cliquish form.
Who was shitting on the thread besides Hensler and Terrorbyte? Zodiac Brave, for one. He wasn't as bad as Terrorbyte, but he came goddamn close to being just as bad. As someone in the thread indicated (I wasn't around before it was locked), Zodiac Brave drove him away, not Terrorbyte. He would have driven me away too. Terrorbyte was an unfunny, annoying nuisance. Zodiac Brave, on the other hand, started spewing venom and vomit in the thread every other post. You could ignore Terrorbyte easily. You could not ignore Zodiac Brave at all.
G&T's cliquish, one-sided, rigid nature has to go. It's goddamn ridiculous, and people act as though every thread is an appreciation thread and try to shout people that disagree down or assassinate their characters as trolls, when they aren't. Circle-jerks don't foster communication, they foster negativity and nonsense.
I'm not saying that everyone acts this way. But many do. I hope they go away.
Stop this "clique" bullshit
Do you want a list of posters? cause I'll damn well collect a list of those who called Zephos out on being an asshole, and ask 'em their thoughts on the forum drama from months back, which you seem to think this relates to.
Calling an asshole out on being an asshole isn't being a "Clique". It's not being a "circle-jerk. It's being a decent human being. There's no grand "Council of Ye Old GnT" that people are trying to brown nose their way into unlike what you'd try and make others believe.
Do I hold ZB accountable to the Goatse-ing he did? Yes, but he apologized for it even during his statement about it being due to emotional stress and breaking down. do I know for certain he's sorry? I don't, but I guess when he's unbanned at TATF we'll see.
Honestly, as someone who sticks mostly to D&D and H/A, that thread about Kim (which I went to try to find out how the hell they got lost in the first place. The article on CNET was curiously short on that crucial detail), was a major over reaction by several people.
They didn't know this dude. He wasn't any of there's friend or relative. He was some guy they might have seen on TV, or on the internet. Discussing what to do in a dangerous situation like Kim was in and the mistakes he made seems like a pretty on topic, reasonable way to post.
Zephos initial post wasn't that bad. Yeah, he called Kim stupid. His later questions about nursing were rather a bad idea given the reaction his other posts had gotten, and it sort of smells like him seeing if he could further reaction out of people.
Question:If the mods were watching that thread, which it seems like they were after the first page, wouldn't a post warning people to stop bitching about each other's posts and get on topic have been a good idea?
[quote:f573320e64="Zephos"]he stupidly left his family.
He went off gallivanting alone in territory he wasn't familiar with and died from probably exposure while his family was saved.
I don't quite understand why he would just go off like that considering the conditions.
I know I've never been in that situation but i do spend quite a bit of time outdoors and have taken hunter's safety along with reading about some basic survival skills.
it was just stupid of him to leave them.
He should have followed one of the first rules of survial and STAYED PUT.
You are a fucking cunt.[/quote]
There's a good example.
Seriously, go read the thread again if you need a mental refresher. I think there's a serious problem in G&T if posters and moderators think that Zephos' posts were out of line. They weren't. James Kim acted stupidly. And the first response was "you are a fucking cunt." This is exactly how many people in G&T act about a myriad of subjects, all the way from missing CNET editors to Halo.
Being jailed is preventing me from reposting everything he wrote, so just go reread the thread. People were calling Zephos pompous and arrogant for no reason whatsoever. None of his posts were out of line. Here's the thread URL:
Posts
And he'd do it all at room temperature.
Wow. Just Wow.
Read the first post.
EDIT: I just read more of the thread. It gets much much worse.
EDIT: and the banned thread has been updated!
I'll miss the little bugger, because, let's face it. No trolls. That means you can have one.
The more trolls I notice each day, the more I'm inclined to see the move from jailing to very short tempbans. Jailing is just a minor thing, but not being able to post sends a message that what you did won't be tolerated. There should be a written warning before it happens if its relatively minor though, but that happens most of the time anyways.
For jailing, to do it properly, you need to hit the jail button, edit the automatic jail PM to mention what rule was broken, then post the jailing in the mod forum for others to see. For a banning, you need to look for expired bans, delete the old ones if necessary, put in the new one, then post in the mod forum and MD about what happened. If it's for something like a goatse raid, you also need to clean up the mess.
So yeah, it can be a bit of work. Not complaining, mind you, just highlighting that jailings and bannings aren't really trivial to do.
Are you trying to see how quickly it can be done for you?
How about we don't and just say we did. Because you know I am short on time; I have to go work for the Man in a few minutes.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
people generally react badly when someone refers to the recently deceased as stupid, in multiple ways
especially then, when someone is told to drop it, they don't and then try and say "SEE SEE I WAS RIGHT".
So we can't even criticize a decision that some guy made that cost him his life? While maybe not handled as gracefully as it could have been (but this is an internet forum after all), Zephos did have a point and he didn't start off being an asshole about it. But you know what the first response to his post was? "You are a fucking cunt." Granted that was from Zodiac Brave, who is apparently mentally imbalanced, but very few people tried to approach it from any way other than "How can you post he made a stupid decision in a thread that says he died?"
I'm not really sure what some expected of the thread. It seemed like some people just wanted everyone to sit around, hold hands and post about how sad it was. Yeah, welcome to the internet.
Maybe the content of the post was not made in a malicious manner, but there is such a thing as tact. Speaking ill of the dead is generally bad form when people are still in the grieving/mourning process. G&T probably did take it too far, as seems to be the norm nowaddays, but if he was honestly not expecting to catch shit for his comments (shit which he rightfully deserved, in my opinion) then that's just plain silly.
This is an alternative to all the mods being spammed back with requests to lock the spamthreads. Variations on this include the first poster being the only one to PM the mods about the thread.
this
Doesn't come off as assholish and condescending to you?
as for "G&T overreacting" to Zephos continually criticized the decisions the Kims made, right down to Kati Kim nursing her children to help them survive (ironically, the initial comment seemed innocent, but his next post on it revealed that he was indeed criticizing hte decision).
This is after his post
Zephos's role in that thread seems like all he really cared about was "I have knowledge "x", respect me!
What do you mean I'm an ass?! I have facts to back me up! where's my adoration?!"
t Javen: The way I see it, the "shit" hurled at Zephos was completely undeserved. If anything, Zodiac Brave shit all over the thread, not Zephos, and it was the kneejerk reactionary nature of the posters in that thread that caused the downfall of the thread (well, that and Terrorbyte who was just awful). Zephos was posting on-topic useful information in a thread about someone's death. I've never read that you should "stay put" and frankly, other than Kami with her original post, the only other poster in that entire thread that I valued was Zephos, for the information he was giving.
Yes, there IS something called tact. Shitting in a thread because someone offers information which may not color the recently deceased in the best light is what I consider a complete LACK of tact. Zephos didn't really lack tact there, but almost everyone else did.
EDIT:
Zephos wrote: "he stupidly left his family."
Lanz wrote: "Doesn't come off as assholish and condescending to you?"
OK, so he did use the term "stupid." I'll retract that piece of my statement.
However, no, I don't think he is being condescending. I think people grieve, if you can call it that, in different ways. Some people get angry at loved ones when they die in stupid way. If James Kim really had read up on survival techniques as Zephos insisted, then yes, he was being stupid.
And this could serve as a lesson to other would-be campers that were perusing the thread.
I see nothing wrong with calling James Kim's actions "stupid" given the information. Hindsight is what it is, sure, and we don't know too much about the particulars, but Zephos even says "I don't know why he would..." because he doesn't. It doesn't mean he shouldn't be able to comment on proper survival procedure.
Would I have presented the information the same way Zephos did? Maybe, maybe not, but really...what he was saying wasn't that bad, and you have plenty of examples in that thread (Terrorbyte's posts, for example) to compare Zephos' to. It's pretty obvious to me that Zephos wasn't trolling, he was simply stating that this wasn't the correct or best way to ensure one's survival in this situation given the following information, which he provided.
Regardless of whether his intentions were noble or to stroke his own ego (the only person familiar with Zephos' intentions is Zephos), the posts are not that bad. People automatically assume that other people are posting for selfish reasons or just to be annoying, and those people really need to stop doing that.
Mods and Admin need to accept the fact that the various areas of the message boards are, and will always remain, separate communities and should be treated that way. The recent changes to G&T have done nothing but hurt that community.
I have been at least a semi-regular G&T poster for some time now. I was one that felt upset with the removal of the megathreads and still feel that their loss is a huge mistake - that community feeling of DS owners was what drew me into posting more actively in the first place. In addition, although I rarely posted there, I feel that the removal of the G&T chat thread was the wrong thing to do. What you effectively did was took smaller communites and broke them up entirely. I understand the hope was that it would create more smaller threads or maybe cross some of the chatters into SE, but it hasn't, it's just killed those small communities with, as far as I can see, no positive benefits reaped.
If you wanted to make the boards more inviting to newcomers the frequent jailings should lighten up as well. Jailing for stuff like posting in spam threads, too large an image embedded, and minor stuff like that just creates a bunch of matching, annoying avatars and screws up quote trees and generally uglies up the boards for us and newbies. Why not at least PM someone, say "Hey, no posting in spam thread, this is your 1 warning" first? I mean, yes, it's in the rules, but it still seems a bit heavyhanded and certainly doesn't make the boards the fun community you seem to want.
I mean what type of message is "If you make fun of a broken english spammer you get jailed"? It's certainly not the mouthy, foul mouthed PA forums that I enjoy. The G&T forum is starting to resemble a news site. Ask an opinion question? It could be a poll thread and get locked. Ask an offtopic question? Take it to SE++. Make fun of a spammer? Jailed for a bit. It feels like the fun is slowly being pulled out of G&T and it's sad to watch. Just my 2 cents.
notice that there were other's who talked on survival tips and so on, and were not attacked?
And Zephos was?
What does that tell you? cause it tells me G&T isn't as bad as you're trying to claim it is. They just don't take well to people being assholes.
The fact that other people posted survival tips and they harped on Zephos only proves my point.
no, it seems more like you want to go on this strange "G&T MUST CHANGE!" thing.
Give me one logical reason why Zephos and no one else got targetted? What, do you think G&T just needs a whippying boy every now and then?
it is not being an "oversensitive ninny" to scold someone for acting like a douche in regards to someone's death, especially when they are given the message to stop harping on the same opinion that people are finding offensive and a slap in the face of the dead.
and who "shat all over the thread"? aside from people making crass jokes?
And why can't we say what he did was stupid? If someone is killed by train because they ran through a barrier, am I not allowed to say that was a stupid decision even if it felt right to that person at that time?
Zodiac Brave did shit all over it. Then he shit all over G&T in general, D&D and even the treehouse. Terrorbyte did, too, but it was obvious he was trolling, some people just took it too far.
G&T does need to change. Nothing can be discussed unless it's just a big circle jerk.
Yes, exactly. Unless they are crucifying someone publicly, many of the people clinging like barnacles to yesterday's G&T are unhappy. They like to pounce on anyone that isn't in their - as Invisible put it - "circle jerk," and throw the book at this outcast immediately, in full cliquish form.
Who was shitting on the thread besides Hensler and Terrorbyte? Zodiac Brave, for one. He wasn't as bad as Terrorbyte, but he came goddamn close to being just as bad. As someone in the thread indicated (I wasn't around before it was locked), Zodiac Brave drove him away, not Terrorbyte. He would have driven me away too. Terrorbyte was an unfunny, annoying nuisance. Zodiac Brave, on the other hand, started spewing venom and vomit in the thread every other post. You could ignore Terrorbyte easily. You could not ignore Zodiac Brave at all.
G&T's cliquish, one-sided, rigid nature has to go. It's goddamn ridiculous, and people act as though every thread is an appreciation thread and try to shout people that disagree down or assassinate their characters as trolls, when they aren't. Circle-jerks don't foster communication, they foster negativity and nonsense.
I'm not saying that everyone acts this way. But many do. I hope they go away.
Seriously, just saying "you guys suck because you were mean to this one guy who was kind of being insensitive" is one of the worst arguments I've heard.
I blame Whippy
I'm saying the people posting against Zephos are a bunch of jackasses that should be banned and acting that way in the future should get any poster banned. At least, that's my suggestion for this "policies and procedures" thread. It's not an argument so much as it's a suggestion.
Getting rid of all the shitty pack-mentality vaginas in G&T would make it a much better place to post.
I have.
It is.
So were people in the G&T one.
one thread being more insensitive does not make the asshole comments in the other not asshole comments.
not to mention the several counts of G&T bashing in there after Zephos popped in there (I can't remember if there was any beforehand), complaining about how G&T was "apparently srs bznezz."
and reading further in the thread (pg44), a random shot at the splinter forums. quaint.
Pack mentality isn't good, I agree, but for once at least it was being used against someone who really was rather out of line. Regardless of how right Zephos may have been his posts were antagonizing in nature. You and I may not see eye to eye on that, and I'm sorry, but he really should have backed off or at least been more respectful.
Says the person in jail. :P
If you think it's a problem, start citing examples and stop calling names.
If "pack mentality" is a forum epidemic, then the moderators need to start curbing such behavior as it crops up instead of letting things snowball to the point where sweeping changes are handed down at a moment's notice and nobody has a fucking clue why.
Stop this "clique" bullshit
Do you want a list of posters? cause I'll damn well collect a list of those who called Zephos out on being an asshole, and ask 'em their thoughts on the forum drama from months back, which you seem to think this relates to.
Calling an asshole out on being an asshole isn't being a "Clique". It's not being a "circle-jerk. It's being a decent human being. There's no grand "Council of Ye Old GnT" that people are trying to brown nose their way into unlike what you'd try and make others believe.
Do I hold ZB accountable to the Goatse-ing he did? Yes, but he apologized for it even during his statement about it being due to emotional stress and breaking down. do I know for certain he's sorry? I don't, but I guess when he's unbanned at TATF we'll see.
They didn't know this dude. He wasn't any of there's friend or relative. He was some guy they might have seen on TV, or on the internet. Discussing what to do in a dangerous situation like Kim was in and the mistakes he made seems like a pretty on topic, reasonable way to post.
Zephos initial post wasn't that bad. Yeah, he called Kim stupid. His later questions about nursing were rather a bad idea given the reaction his other posts had gotten, and it sort of smells like him seeing if he could further reaction out of people.
Question:If the mods were watching that thread, which it seems like they were after the first page, wouldn't a post warning people to stop bitching about each other's posts and get on topic have been a good idea?
You are a fucking cunt.[/quote]
There's a good example.
Seriously, go read the thread again if you need a mental refresher. I think there's a serious problem in G&T if posters and moderators think that Zephos' posts were out of line. They weren't. James Kim acted stupidly. And the first response was "you are a fucking cunt." This is exactly how many people in G&T act about a myriad of subjects, all the way from missing CNET editors to Halo.
Being jailed is preventing me from reposting everything he wrote, so just go reread the thread. People were calling Zephos pompous and arrogant for no reason whatsoever. None of his posts were out of line. Here's the thread URL:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1073841337&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0