I think the ideal system is always going to have a lot of hidden stuff happening behind the scenes, both in matchmaking and in your SR adjustments. The more of that you reveal, the more it can be gamed or used for toxicity. I think it's best just to keep it all obfuscated so there's no opportunity to min/max it and players can just focus on winning. Really the only reason the tiers even exist is because people enjoy having a concrete goal to pursue, they learned that in the beginning when they launched without competitive.
0
Options
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited September 2022
The thing about rank is that it is simply always gonna plateau for most players at some point.
I think having multiple tiers is smart cause it'll allow people to battle it out within their assigned rank more and feel like things are actually moving.
Like take me for instance I wasn't huge on ranked but I was usually Diamond for most of the time I played.
So I never really saw any progression either way. And not only that when you gain like 20-25 points a match but you lost 30-40 it does get kind of demoralizing cause most days I would end with very little net gain. Add on general toxicity and it made ranked feel kind of pointless.
Having a tiered diamond would have at least made it feel like things were happening more. Also evaluating you over a longer period might psychologically make it feel more like you're being judged by overall performance and not just 1 or 2 bad games.
Ah yeah, that does seem like a psychological thing. Though people will get mad if they win and get demoted.
This is definitely true, but the fact that they won't have the chance to stress out about the number change after every single match might be enough of a relief to offset that (probably not, but it's nice to hope)
0
Options
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
You know looking at the system it seems like they're just gonna treat ranking up like placements all the time.
That might not be a bad idea cause I always thought placements were usually the most fun part of ranked.
And like I said it will probably make most people not only play more games but focus less on singular losses.
You know looking at the system it seems like they're just gonna treat ranking up like placements all the time.
That might not be a bad idea cause I always thought placements were usually the most fun part of ranked.
And like I said it will probably make most people not only play more games but focus less on singular losses.
Psychologically it makes sense.
I clawed my way up a rank multiple seasons in a row, only for placements to say "Nah, man. Jupiter is waxing, so minus 400 SR."
So I have neither faith in the invisible hand, nor see constant nonstop placement system as a good thing.
0
Options
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Eh. From what I understand it's still gonna be the same ranked system it will just be delivered to you in a different way.
It's moreso about understanding how the human mind works than any major change to calculations I think.
One issue with rank is you don't just have to contend with the actual game but people's egos too. You have to find the most polite way to tell people they might not be as good as they think they are.
Also a lot of other comp games use the sub-tier system and it works fine.
+1
Options
KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
Bring back the original bell curve crazy number ranking system
You know looking at the system it seems like they're just gonna treat ranking up like placements all the time.
That might not be a bad idea cause I always thought placements were usually the most fun part of ranked.
And like I said it will probably make most people not only play more games but focus less on singular losses.
Psychologically it makes sense.
I clawed my way up a rank multiple seasons in a row, only for placements to say "Nah, man. Jupiter is waxing, so minus 400 SR."
So I have neither faith in the invisible hand, nor see constant nonstop placement system as a good thing.
I'm about 95% confident that is the design intent. It means everybody can feel like they make progress in a new season as they climb up those 400 SR again. In a perfect MMR system your rank should basically be static which is not good skinner box design.
They mentioned something about placing you on the low end of your rating after placements so you can progress during the season. I guess they really want to avoid the scenario where placements put you too high and then you spend all season falling in rank.
Also I just noticed this:
Most players will find their rank is slightly lower when they start out, as they will be learning new concepts and metas. However, players who got to learn more about the game in our betas, or who follow the Overwatch League, may find themselves ranked higher than ever.
I really hope this doesn't mean that watching OWL boosts your SR.
They mentioned something about placing you on the low end of your rating after placements so you can progress during the season. I guess they really want to avoid the scenario where placements put you too high and then you spend all season falling in rank.
Also I just noticed this:
Most players will find their rank is slightly lower when they start out, as they will be learning new concepts and metas. However, players who got to learn more about the game in our betas, or who follow the Overwatch League, may find themselves ranked higher than ever.
I really hope this doesn't mean that watching OWL boosts your SR.
I suspect that's just for the first season. If you've been watching OWL this season, you've been watching Overwatch 2. So, they probably think someone watching OWL will have a leg up over someone who doesn't.
You know looking at the system it seems like they're just gonna treat ranking up like placements all the time.
That might not be a bad idea cause I always thought placements were usually the most fun part of ranked.
And like I said it will probably make most people not only play more games but focus less on singular losses.
Psychologically it makes sense.
I clawed my way up a rank multiple seasons in a row, only for placements to say "Nah, man. Jupiter is waxing, so minus 400 SR."
So I have neither faith in the invisible hand, nor see constant nonstop placement system as a good thing.
I'm about 95% confident that is the design intent. It means everybody can feel like they make progress in a new season as they climb up those 400 SR again. In a perfect MMR system your rank should basically be static which is not good skinner box design.
this is not true at all btw - a huge chunk of this is because unlike in conventional elo found in eg chess ur mmr in ow is inherently super noisy because team game and thus u only represent 20% of ur teams performance
ur performance above or below expected has quite a small effect on win rate, which means u will frequently peak thru sheer matchmaking randomness then drop back down. ur mmr will bounce around because the problem of figuring out how "good" u are is inherently one that requires a huge game count/sample. ur "true" mmr is always substantially below ur peak; its the equilibrium point u bounce around. one way to look at this is imagine u were a hard 50% player, ur still gonna go on big winstreaks thru sheer repeat play - giving u a nice shiny new peak, but not representing any improvement. randomness baby
if ur substantially above ur skill bracket then this is much less of a problem
conspiracy theories about matchmaking are found in every single matchmade team game and the truth is its just a really, really hard problem and the matchmaker is only ever approximating fair games. ow actually has a pretty good matchmaker despite how much of a mess the default placement ranks are - you just have to take a few games that are super unbalanced in stride because theres no way to avoid that, even with a perfect matchmaker (because players have different performance levels at different times, picking different heroes, good players but with bad playstyle synergy or hero picks etc are all things matchmaker does not and cannot meaningfully take into account)
Mostly stuff we knew, although OW1 credits are a "legacy" currency that can be spent in the hero gallery but not the shop, so they won't get you battle passes. Stuff is also purchasable with OW2 coins in the hero gallery, you don't have to wait for it to be in the shop.
However the in-game coin rewards seem really stingy. It looks like they only come from weekly challenges and you get about 60 cents worth of coins per week. Also the battle pass is mostly boring filler in between the big stuff, but I guess that's normal. You can directly buy the battle pass levels, but it's stupid expensive so it's probably only meant to push you over the edge at the end of the season.
Well yeah every F2P game has some whale food. I don't mind that if they subsidize everyone else and level 80 is attainable by a normal player. Other than that the prices here are pretty much industry standard, though I think similar games are also overpricing their shop's cosmetics. They're all targeting the psychological vulnerability of people with overblown FOMO who are not good judges of value - not every whale can easily afford what they're spending.
Also I kind of wish that instead of one ultimate Mythic skin per season, they would introduce some lesser customization on all legendaries. They might never manage to get a Mythic for every single hero, and if you don't like your hero's mythic, tough luck.
some of those challenges are going to be a lot tougher at various ranks. if my poor eyes didn't deceive me one of them was 20 team kills on the weekly challenges. Where i sit in poor gold, team kills are frequently rare just to the nature of feeders and bad team play. Since the system is hopefully going to tell me how close i am to some of these goals, it will be interesting to see how many actually happen, because it "feels" like i get maybe one a night playing probably 8-10 matches.
Do people actually watch OWL matches or follow teams? That's the part I find unbelievable.
I could totally see that someone who watches the meta develop as the pros play OW2 would develop an understanding for how OW2 works. I just don't think anybody watches the OWL.
Do people actually watch OWL matches or follow teams? That's the part I find unbelievable.
I could totally see that someone who watches the meta develop as the pros play OW2 would develop an understanding for how OW2 works. I just don't think anybody watches the OWL.
It's background noise that I'll occasionally watch bits of.
There insidious offer of free OWL currency got me.
Though it is pretty funny that they're all on about watching OWL means you'll have a leg up because of the META when from the current matches it looks like the META is all over the fucking place.
The SE++ thread is like the polar opposite of this one, they talk about OWL all the time.
I think people who try to transfer the OWL meta into their pub games almost inevitably don't really understand why the OWL meta works, they just become meta-obsessed to the detriment of their teammates. Obviously such players are more knowledgeable about OW2 specifically, but I don't believe there's going to be a massive shift in practical skill just because of the format change. I would only reduce the SR of people who have been gone for a long time, which applies beyond just this launch anyway.
Do people actually watch OWL matches or follow teams? That's the part I find unbelievable.
I could totally see that someone who watches the meta develop as the pros play OW2 would develop an understanding for how OW2 works. I just don't think anybody watches the OWL.
I'm watching it right now and so are 40k other people.
I guess everyone was sending OW1 off this weekend because I was getting nothing but 20-30 second queue times when I'm used to 8-10 minutes
0
Options
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
Typical OW, six game losing streak on the final day of its existence but finally won on Hollywood attack and called it an end. I think my very first game was Hollywood too, it's like poetry, it rhymes.
At least there will be a Roadhog respite for a week or two until he's ridiculously buffed for 5v5.
I'm interested to see how OW2 shakes out, though not optimistic. It helps Blizzard that the other multiplayer games I play had fucking disasterous summers, either because the games are just fucking falling apart and each new characters/content is somehow worse than the last, or just godawful balance patches that are exacerbating the problems they're trying to address and only making the pain points worse. I hope the Halloween event starts right up though, because I'd much rather zone out with some low key PvE.
0
Options
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
From what I understand Hog is actually pretty bad in 5v5. Which most people thought he would be.
That said he might have good synergy with Kiriko.
0
Options
BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
dead game hehehehehehe
...and of course, as always, Kill Hitler.
0
Options
DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
You know in general I never really got the point of calling a game "dead". I always felt that was just a brainworm streamers injected into their followers who parrot their every opinion.
Does anyone know if I can install OW1 and it will just...change over to OW2 or will OW2 have its own separate install even though it's replaying OW1? I wanted to go ahead and get it downloaded if possible.
over/under on it actually launching at 12pm PT and if anyone will be able to get in? I'll be working but blizzard doesn't have a great track record with launches.
Anubis B was great for Lucio. Just wall ride all over the place, darting in and out of cover, up and down everywhere. You can just be everywhere and a complete headache while never touching the ground and then just disappearing into the abyss.
That's all the positive things I have to say about any and all of the 2CP maps.
Posts
I think having multiple tiers is smart cause it'll allow people to battle it out within their assigned rank more and feel like things are actually moving.
Like take me for instance I wasn't huge on ranked but I was usually Diamond for most of the time I played.
So I never really saw any progression either way. And not only that when you gain like 20-25 points a match but you lost 30-40 it does get kind of demoralizing cause most days I would end with very little net gain. Add on general toxicity and it made ranked feel kind of pointless.
Having a tiered diamond would have at least made it feel like things were happening more. Also evaluating you over a longer period might psychologically make it feel more like you're being judged by overall performance and not just 1 or 2 bad games.
This is definitely true, but the fact that they won't have the chance to stress out about the number change after every single match might be enough of a relief to offset that (probably not, but it's nice to hope)
That might not be a bad idea cause I always thought placements were usually the most fun part of ranked.
And like I said it will probably make most people not only play more games but focus less on singular losses.
Psychologically it makes sense.
I clawed my way up a rank multiple seasons in a row, only for placements to say "Nah, man. Jupiter is waxing, so minus 400 SR."
So I have neither faith in the invisible hand, nor see constant nonstop placement system as a good thing.
It's moreso about understanding how the human mind works than any major change to calculations I think.
One issue with rank is you don't just have to contend with the actual game but people's egos too. You have to find the most polite way to tell people they might not be as good as they think they are.
Also a lot of other comp games use the sub-tier system and it works fine.
I'm about 95% confident that is the design intent. It means everybody can feel like they make progress in a new season as they climb up those 400 SR again. In a perfect MMR system your rank should basically be static which is not good skinner box design.
Also I just noticed this:
I really hope this doesn't mean that watching OWL boosts your SR.
I suspect that's just for the first season. If you've been watching OWL this season, you've been watching Overwatch 2. So, they probably think someone watching OWL will have a leg up over someone who doesn't.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
this is not true at all btw - a huge chunk of this is because unlike in conventional elo found in eg chess ur mmr in ow is inherently super noisy because team game and thus u only represent 20% of ur teams performance
ur performance above or below expected has quite a small effect on win rate, which means u will frequently peak thru sheer matchmaking randomness then drop back down. ur mmr will bounce around because the problem of figuring out how "good" u are is inherently one that requires a huge game count/sample. ur "true" mmr is always substantially below ur peak; its the equilibrium point u bounce around. one way to look at this is imagine u were a hard 50% player, ur still gonna go on big winstreaks thru sheer repeat play - giving u a nice shiny new peak, but not representing any improvement. randomness baby
if ur substantially above ur skill bracket then this is much less of a problem
conspiracy theories about matchmaking are found in every single matchmade team game and the truth is its just a really, really hard problem and the matchmaker is only ever approximating fair games. ow actually has a pretty good matchmaker despite how much of a mess the default placement ranks are - you just have to take a few games that are super unbalanced in stride because theres no way to avoid that, even with a perfect matchmaker (because players have different performance levels at different times, picking different heroes, good players but with bad playstyle synergy or hero picks etc are all things matchmaker does not and cannot meaningfully take into account)
Mostly stuff we knew, although OW1 credits are a "legacy" currency that can be spent in the hero gallery but not the shop, so they won't get you battle passes. Stuff is also purchasable with OW2 coins in the hero gallery, you don't have to wait for it to be in the shop.
However the in-game coin rewards seem really stingy. It looks like they only come from weekly challenges and you get about 60 cents worth of coins per week. Also the battle pass is mostly boring filler in between the big stuff, but I guess that's normal. You can directly buy the battle pass levels, but it's stupid expensive so it's probably only meant to push you over the edge at the end of the season.
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder
I could totally see that someone who watches the meta develop as the pros play OW2 would develop an understanding for how OW2 works. I just don't think anybody watches the OWL.
It's background noise that I'll occasionally watch bits of.
There insidious offer of free OWL currency got me.
Though it is pretty funny that they're all on about watching OWL means you'll have a leg up because of the META when from the current matches it looks like the META is all over the fucking place.
I think people who try to transfer the OWL meta into their pub games almost inevitably don't really understand why the OWL meta works, they just become meta-obsessed to the detriment of their teammates. Obviously such players are more knowledgeable about OW2 specifically, but I don't believe there's going to be a massive shift in practical skill just because of the format change. I would only reduce the SR of people who have been gone for a long time, which applies beyond just this launch anyway.
I'm watching it right now and so are 40k other people.
Steam: MightyPotatoKing
But if the new ping system is good I don't intend to ever use a mic anyway.
I'm getting my flash + fans in.
At least there will be a Roadhog respite for a week or two until he's ridiculously buffed for 5v5.
That said he might have good synergy with Kiriko.
if you're on pc, you can already predownload OW2 through the bnet client
if you're on console you should be able to start downloading it tomorrow morning
Blizzard: Pailryder#1101
GoG: https://www.gog.com/u/pailryder
Ah weird, I must have completely overlooked the install or icon then. I am on PC. I'll check again, maybe my client needed an update. Thanks
I hope they reuse the assets for the five lost maps, but I also hope that doing so doesn't constitute one season worth of content.
That's all the positive things I have to say about any and all of the 2CP maps.