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[EUIV] Reducing the Reduced reduction in cost of reducing war exhaustion for some NI's

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  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Just read the diary, had to laugh when they say "the AI now understands XYZ" and i think, great, wish I understood XYZ

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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    If the Ottomans can actually fort good Byzantium strats are going back to the drawing board.

  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    Another problem with fort spam is that you can attrition an opponent to death and still have only 20% warscore

    A war is seldom worth it unless you can siege out your opponent

  • Kane Red RobeKane Red Robe Master of Magic ArcanusRegistered User regular
    On the one hand the AI does need to do a better job of building and upgrading forts. On the other hand it seems a bit early to be building the Maginot Line.

  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Shows the AI doesn't understand Zone of Control either

  • PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
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    Oh god fort spam and they're all max level

  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    Pssst, Victoria 2 mods can get wild:
    ?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false
    ?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false
    ?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false
    ?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false

  • Kane Red RobeKane Red Robe Master of Magic ArcanusRegistered User regular
    The big fantasy mod Anbennar updated and added all of not-China to the map. I of course am playing through as Jaddari, again, instead of anything in the new area.

  • AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    I've seen this happen a few times in my current game. Is anyone able to explain how the hostile Somali army is in the same province as my besiegers without entering combat?
    DEFAD49AF9F9A8629060B78B89E3AD2BA3C605D4

  • MonwynMonwyn Apathy's a tragedy, and boredom is a crime. A little bit of everything, all of the time.Registered User regular
    I've seen this happen a few times in my current game. Is anyone able to explain how the hostile Somali army is in the same province as my besiegers without entering combat?
    DEFAD49AF9F9A8629060B78B89E3AD2BA3C605D4

    Doesn't look like they're retreating. Occasionally there are weird timing quirks but it looks like you've been there for a minute so this isn't just a one-day overlap.

    If you really want to engage maybe break your siege for a moment. Otherwise I'd probably attribute it to buggy game is buggy.

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  • AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    Monwyn wrote: »
    I've seen this happen a few times in my current game. Is anyone able to explain how the hostile Somali army is in the same province as my besiegers without entering combat?

    Doesn't look like they're retreating. Occasionally there are weird timing quirks but it looks like you've been there for a minute so this isn't just a one-day overlap.

    If you really want to engage maybe break your siege for a moment. Otherwise I'd probably attribute it to buggy game is buggy.

    The really weird thing is that when my vassals moved in and attacked, my army was also part of the attack. So, the game understood my army was in the same province, it wasn't just a visual bug that made it look like the same province.

  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    I know that since Victoria 2 wasn't super popular, we have used the EU4 thread to talk about it. I love the Empire of Mexico posted above, that's a ridiculous number of people in Tenochtitlan for sure. Will we be doing a separate thread for Victoria 3? It comes out in ten days, and I'm about to put in my pre-order today because it is looking great and I have really liked every Paradox game I have played so far (except maybe Stellaris, I just can't get into that one for some reason). Because I'm seriously excited for Victoria 3 and I want to talk about it in the right place.

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  • SLyMSLyM Registered User regular
    I am also very much looking forward to Vicky 3, I don't know how popular it'll be but I'll certainly be talking about it

    My friend is working on a roguelike game you can play if you want to. (It has free demo)
  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    Speaking of V3, EUV has got to be the next on the block for the next-generation update. Having played CK2 first, gotten utterly lost and disinterested, and then giving CK3 a shot after all the praise it got, I'm absolutely ready for V3, the streams and some of the leaked footage show their philosophy to apporachability has only improved and EU5 will be an excellent re-introduction for me to EU (despite having some 15 hours or so in the game, the games "rules" haven't lodged in my head the same way they have with CK3 where long gaps will pass and I'll still know what I'm doing picking the game up a year or so later).

    . . .though, in terms of visual overhaul, it is STELLARIS that I'm most excited to see, though most definitely that has to come after EU5 and before HOI5 (which I think will be the one that gets updated last as that one still manages to pull excellent STEAM engagement).

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
  • AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    I imagine you're all playing Vicky 3 instead of EU4 now, but for anyone who isn't: if you're playing as Sweden, do NOT let the Dacke disaster happen. I was going nicely, had just beaten up France, was going to attack Muscovy, but I thought "let's convert to Protestantism real quick". No, no, no. I was a little too late to get a centre of reformation, and about 5 years too soon to prevent the Dacke disaster, and now I have 25 unrest and about 100k rebels, and I need to spend about 1000 admin on stability to get out of it. It's awful, do not recommend.

  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    I have indeed spent the evening playing Victoria 3. The game is almost mind-bogglingly complex, and I have a solid (but not spectacular) amount of time in CK2, EU4, Vicky 2 and HoI4 under my belt. I spent something like 3-4 hours in the game and I completed roughly a decade. I'm starting to get the feel for the interface and some of the stuff with trade and the economy. I have not tried any warfare or diplomatic plays yet. I chose the tutorial option and started as Sweden with the goal to peacefully form Scandinavia and maybe sneak my way into being a Great Power by the end. Finland being the junior partner in a personal union with Russia is going to make that a bit tricky though. I definitely made some mistakes early on that I wouldn't do again, but that's part of the learning process and the fun.

    Now if my King would die and let his son take the throne, that would be fantastic.

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  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    I have a full Victoria 3 evening ahead. Would you advise doing one of the tutorial options first? My problem is I often feel like I’m doing a scenario I might not necessarily want when I have to chose from tutorial options.

    On the other hand I routinely have to start over these games pretty soon anyway. Like in Imperator where I was extremely late in realizing you could build roads for example.

    PSN: Honkalot
  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    I've tried playing the Sweden tutorial. I found it lacking. It explains the very basics, but then still throws you into the deep end. Maybe better to find some hour-long Youtube tutorial instead.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    With Vicky, I've always felt the US is the simplest tutorial. You get a ton of massive natural advantages so if you screw up it doesn't really matter.

    Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    I started as SWEDEN as well and am actually liking the tutorial. I think the whole "sorta-but-not-knowing" what to do is the point, in that I do know what to do, but have been fumbling around making mistakes doing it. In my time playing the tutorial (two previous restarts) I've come now to see that the first major mission of this scenario, is developing your economy, with the final boss being the mission to get your GDP to over 6MIL. The GDP quest is definitely the hardest quest so far, but they really did give you all that you needed to know about how to increase that, including lightly dipping your toe into the trade system to cover input shortages and possible exports if you have them (they even let you know that this isn't the real trade tutorial and that they were going to help you with that later.

    So right now, all I've been doing is going around and expanding my production base to handle most of my base market needs (so expand construction capacity, more tools, more iron, more logging for hardwood and cheaper liquor). My first couple runs I ran out of money, but this run I've been vacillating between expansion and stockpiling with the long term goal of being the worlds supplier of military equipment.

    I've also been dabbling in diplomacy and government, but haven't gotten any journals on that yet, as I'm sure there are triggers for all of these, but can see where Sweden is going politically (I have no idea if this is historical or not) and have been pushing government in that direction (heir is a member of Inteligencia who are a strong political group in nation and has the laws I want). Mostly though, I've been just doing tutorials and digging into the tooltips of the game. These "Ah ha. . ." moments when something finally clicks have been incredibly satisfying.

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
  • delf4delf4 Registered User regular
    Spent last night playing way to much but finally went to bed when I hit a bug. Any laws I tried to enact were adding four zeros to the end. The tool tip would say that it would check for passing every 180 days but when you hit the button it would change to checking every 1800000 days.

  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited October 2022
    The tutorial is kind of clunky but it helps. One of the first things it teaches you is infrastructure. Expand a farm or something. But then it will ask you to change its production for a span of time. After that is typically another expand so the weeks you spend waiting for the production change step to complete you may take it upon yourself to start another infrastructure change only to be met with a new journal entry that you will have to wait for.

    That said the tutorial adapts to how your country is doing after completing the starter bits. So that is nice. "Your bureaucracy is low get it back up" with included tell me how and why buttons that are generally really good.

    I did a couple hours as Peru. It is interesting to see that play for it is indeed quite different than the lets plays i watched leading up to release. Religion being a core of the government and power structure was interesting to try to change and in the end it was just a learning experience heh. But a worthy one. Cant wait to play more.

    I love the new war system. Vicky 2 warfare was just doomstacking or cheesing for encirclements. Not really all that engrossing. While it is not perfect I cant wait to see what they do with it. War in EU4 and other paradox games is always something I just tolerated. I love that it is not a focus but rather a system in excess.

    The only negatives is that we will have to wait for more complex "flavor". The way countries start may be different on base systems but the flavor really isnt there. That and some of the events happening in the world are off. Like the US civil war heh. But they already commented on that.
    I was also kind of hoping I could have the option to start as Natives and fight back or something heh. That and the events for some of the US atrocities are also not "fixable. Like the trail of tears. No way to stop it looks like.

    Jubal77 on
  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    I started the tutorial as Cape Colony and the journal/quests came in a bit slow so I accidentally took a lot of liberties. Before unpausing I started incorporating one of the other areas. And after the grain farm expansion I figured since I’m losing money each month I should build a Government Administration to tax more people. That quickly lead to having a loan of like 70% of my available credit.

    I do hope when the incorporation finishes and the government administration gets going I’ll make some more money. Or some money at the very least!

    Oops!

    PSN: Honkalot
  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    I was having some cash flow problems early on (as Sweden), but I added a consumption tax on "services" that brings in a good bit of change so I am out of debt now. I probably have way more in the way of trade routes than is strictly healthy, but I have been trying to build up my industry to bring down the prices of the most expensive goods like furniture and clothing. There are a ton of aspects I haven't really done anything with yet, like colonization and warfare.

    There is just so much going on in Victoria 3, and so far I'm quite enjoying trying to figure things out without resorting to watching others play through things first. Once I finish (or grow tired of) my Sweden game I will choose a different country, most likely USA or maybe Russia.

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  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    I'm leaning toward the opinions that war is kind of busted? As it seems like regardless of how many units are on a front any battle is just going to be a couple from each side? And it seems easy to end up in a stalemate...

    I decided to start as Japan and have been slowly opening up the country. My colonization of South East Asia eventually triggered a native rebellion that Russia decided to pile in on for some reason. The decentralized nation in question has already capitulated to me but Russsia is still going and I just have a front line in Hokaido that I can't push and the Russians are making no effort to push. The most progress has been from me launching a naval invasion of Kamchatka which has been completely uncontested. I guess their war score is ticking down so maybe they will make peace eventually?

    But I am trying to decide between continuing to try to pass Mercantilism or capitulating to Russia and getting Free Trade. I'm not sure how that would affect my annexation of that other country though.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2022
    I agree war doesn’t seem to be strictly functional currently. It’s hard to say what’s bugged and what’s the system, and what are strange edge cases.

    In my game Japan joined China against Britain in the Opium war, China then capitulated and Japan was left. Just sitting still at 0 war score while Britain ticks down 0.7 every week from the winning percentage they had. There’s no actual war going on and I guess Japan will win by default at some point?

    The sad thing is as a colony I mobilized and now I can’t demobilize and there’s no front to go to either. And being mobilized is quite expensive. And at -0.7 it’ll take so so long for a state that might end the war.

    Honk on
    PSN: Honkalot
  • AntinumericAntinumeric Registered User regular
    Started as Greece just trying to learn how to get an economy functioning. Turns out that you need a LOT of wood.

    In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.
  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    Basically just played this game all day yesterday idly at work, and boy oh boy am I sold. Literally NOTHING has happened in my except building up Swedens industry (number 2 producer of trains and steel, coming for that hardwood soon). Along the way managed to grad SoL up to 18 for the populace, though I think this might soon come to bite me in the ass if I can't keep up with driving costs down (through an import scheme or building up within the country. . .which we are running out of people to handle).

    Right now, Sweden is easily the best place to live in terms of living standards and wage (our per capita GPD beats every European country by a "European country mile" and is I believe sixth in the world - the rest are just really specific nations and puppet states), and our literacy is about to cross 60%. We're also so entangled in the markets of everyone around us that Britain and Russia view us as vital and worth protecting, and pretty much the rest of Europe, while not "protective" will almost surely come to our aid if anything pops off directed at us (which I don't see as I don't see this game as being "war focused" - though my next game as Sweden outside of the tutorial will definitely be to fulfill that role as a war-profiteer state).
    Started as Greece just trying to learn how to get an economy functioning. Turns out that you need a LOT of wood.

    . . .and god help you if you can't control who is buying that wood up. Much of my early game with Sweden was banging my head against a wall trying to figure out why the funk, in a system where we're producing most of our basic input needs for downstream production, my shops weren't either getting what they needed or weren't running great profits based on how cheap inputs were. Turns out I had to, obviously, disincentivize exports. This helps keep things healthy, but you're still going to run into situations where a good deal of your production is going outside the country because the price more than beats any tariffs.

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
  • delf4delf4 Registered User regular
    Restarted yesterday in Australia after my bugged Sweden game. It’s going much smoother then my first game. Though I think I waited to long to push for colonization and Great Britain started colonizing South Island so I’m not sure if I can actually form Australia now.

  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    Is there a logistics map mode? Is manpower a thing? I honestly can't tell if the combat system is incredibly basic or just incredibly opaque.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Is there a logistics map mode? Is manpower a thing? I honestly can't tell if the combat system is incredibly basic or just incredibly opaque.

    There are map modes (I'm not a fan of it as it is really easy to "click through" on to the actual map, but there are map modes. Not sure what you mean by logistics and manpower though.

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
  • Jubal77Jubal77 Registered User regular
    edited October 2022
    Ive been messing around with minor powers. Tried to unite Ethiopia but need to get better at diplomacy still. Egypt likes to jump in and still trying to get it down on how to sway properly. South America is fun. Mexico is fun. I tried BC Canada but you start with a logging camp and that is pretty much it. But that could be fun later. BC would be WA State along with where my tribe is from so that would be interesting on a see how much i can paint with it etc. There are also "Salish" etc listed in the pops too so hopefully at some point I can mess with pops and get them to be primary and in charge heh.

    As far as war it is "abstracted" but in the end it leads to the same outcome as vicky 2 (and other pdx games) at least in my current plays. Sure you dont get to doomstack but i never liked that. You essentially can doomstack fronts right now anyway. And as with pretty much all PDX games it is all on your comp. If an army has skirmishers and you dont you need to avoid escallating with that country until you get to that or higher. They will destroy high numbered armies ive seen. To what breadth I am not sure though heh.

    Jubal77 on
  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    For my second game, I decided to give Madagascar a go, because it's fairly isolated so I figured it's a pretty good place to play around with the basic systems without getting too much interference from the outside.

    This proved to be true. Unfortunately, Madagascar has too little interference from the outside. At game start, it's isolationist and cannot form trade routes with others, which gets real inconvenient real quick, because Madagascar has no iron and you need iron to do basically anything more than the basics.

    So now I'm trying to figure out how to open up the country.

  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    ED! wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Is there a logistics map mode? Is manpower a thing? I honestly can't tell if the combat system is incredibly basic or just incredibly opaque.

    There are map modes (I'm not a fan of it as it is really easy to "click through" on to the actual map, but there are map modes. Not sure what you mean by logistics and manpower though.

    I mean your army needs supplies and if it doesn't have supplies it takes huge attrition. I assume it draws some kind of line between your HQ and the front? If it is overseas this involves convoys that can be raided. Can I see my supply capabilites somehow? Does infrastructure or market access matter?

    Is the only limit to my ability to replenish troops my total population?

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    ED! wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Is there a logistics map mode? Is manpower a thing? I honestly can't tell if the combat system is incredibly basic or just incredibly opaque.

    There are map modes (I'm not a fan of it as it is really easy to "click through" on to the actual map, but there are map modes. Not sure what you mean by logistics and manpower though.

    I mean your army needs supplies and if it doesn't have supplies it takes huge attrition. I assume it draws some kind of line between your HQ and the front? If it is overseas this involves convoys that can be raided. Can I see my supply capabilites somehow? Does infrastructure or market access matter?

    Is the only limit to my ability to replenish troops my total population?

    Oh I see. Yeah, I haven't actually participated in a war yet (and I'm thinking that might not happen with this tutorial), but from what I remember about V2's system, all of that is out the window. I haven't found a particularly good video that goes over what is lost or gained or how it fundamentally changes the game, but my impression is that no, none of that stuff is in, or at least not to that level. There's definitely "supply" and "logistic" levers to keep an eye on though: "attrition" being the number of troops lost while on a Front, and "supply" being the supply limit - both set by a commander.

    . . .beyond that, guess is as good as yours, but I don't think that depth is what was brought over to this new system.

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
  • AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    I have no idea how war works here. I'm playing as Sweden, I declared war on Denmark... a few months later they capitulated. I couldn't see anything to actually do to change the outcome.

    Anyway, I won, and puppeting Denmark gave me a ton of money, and now I've formed Scandinavia!

    My problem now is that I seem to have built more factories than I have the population for, so all the employees abandon the arms manufactories, which drives their price up, so then they abandon the ammunition factories and work in the arms factories, which tanks the price of arms and raises the price of ammunition, so they swap back... it's a very volatile market.

  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    In my game (as Sweden), for whatever reason Prussia declared war on Oldenburg, who had Russia and Austria step up to defend them. Well Prussia defeated Austria and Russia both, but doesn't actually have a way to get to Oldenburg, so they've been sitting there at war with their armies mobilized and conscripts drafted for several years now with no sign that the war will ever reach a conclusion. Both are at 0 on the war support or enthusiasm meter or whatever you call it, and they're just stuck. So that basically means Germany isn't going to form any time soon, but Italy already exists and I'm hoping to form Scandinavia soon.

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  • delf4delf4 Registered User regular
    This game has its hooks on me. In my Australia game, Great Britain keeps taking more and more of my income but I think if I push for independence I will tank my economy. Without access to their market I doubt I’m self sufficient. I am number one for transport and electricity in the world though.

  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited October 2022
    It kind of feels like the population density in Japan kind of breaks parts of the model? It has hundreds of units of arable land with millions of peasants and I am trying to do the journal entry to get down to 35% peasants but after building pretty much as hard as I can for decades I still have 60% peasants.

    I also permanently do not have enough taxation capacity and would have to build like a hundred government administrations.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • SLyMSLyM Registered User regular
    it is worth noting that farms build way faster than factories, so they can be a useful intermediate step to get your pops off subsistence farming

    My friend is working on a roguelike game you can play if you want to. (It has free demo)
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