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[VTuber] thread: These cosmic and eldritch entities are delivering... comfy vibes?

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  • Crippl3Crippl3 oh noRegistered User regular
    OK I'm tapping out this is all insane

  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    Holy shit I tuned in for a second and I am astonished that this is happening, even if all that is being said is true in the least charitable interpretation, this is still the most insane PR move this company could possibly be making

    This is nuts

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  • MillMill Registered User regular
    edited February 13
    Oh boy, it sounds like Anycolor management might have really fucked up, again!

    Oh man, this trash fire isn't going to die down anytime soon. Might keep it going long enough that it'll just slam into whatever False is going to drop in April and that is a separate thing. My guess there is that the time for False, has to do with when things in court are expected to go public. Otherwise he'd probably have dropped it already.

    Edit: Also a bad look for the talents that went along with this. I'm sorry, the response when management goes "we need you to give this statement about a former talent, that we are having a public dispute with," should be "Excuse me, that is inappropriate and I'm not going to do it. If you retaliate against me, I will be talking with my lawyer. Do you drag me into you dispute, that was not what I signed up for."

    Mill on
    OlivawCentipede Damascus
  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    edited February 13
    It sounds like hostages being held at gunpoint forced to read a script.

    Actually you could literally hear someone shuffling around paper at one point, probably on purpose to make sure it was picked up clearly.

    Reynolds on
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  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    Dude this is a black screen and some prepared statements, there’s absolutely no way this wasn’t announced at the last possible second specifically to interrupt the Doki stream, what is happening

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  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    The Vtubing fans: Well, let's try to support the livers, if not the company. What a terrible situation.

    Anycolor: But what if... we used the Livers as our paid defense squad? Maybe we can turn some portion of the fanbase into a Zerg rush against Doki.

    Disappointed beyond reckoning with the three who spoke, I respected them a lot. To be manipulated in this way is really quite awful.

    miscellaneousinsanity
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    Oh man, I knew that was going to make it 1 hour late to Doki stream, thought it was going to be chill and watch some Neopets later, but Jesus Christ.

  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    What are the accusations, exactly?

  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    Oh my god and I checked her stream and now she’s had to stop her stream dead in its tracks to acknowledge this is happening and talk about the drama again and Jesus Christ I can’t even imagine how bad this is fucking up her night. What a way to kill the positive mood, having to stop and go “okay well I guess I’ll be releasing the statement I drew up with my lawyer and some receipts later, I guess that’s gotta happen now, cool, anyway let’s make a neopet I guess!!!”

    Jesus even if she was at fault somehow this is ruthlessly cruel

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  • miscellaneousinsanitymiscellaneousinsanity grass grows, birds fly, sun shines, and brother, i hurt peopleRegistered User regular
    in some more stunning foresight from anycolor's management, there was no restriction or moderation on the stream chat so the entire chat was shitting on them the whole time and telling people to support doki

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    OlivawTNTroopershoeboxjeddyMillReynoldsTryCatcherSkeithAzraith
  • Crippl3Crippl3 oh noRegistered User regular
    august wrote: »
    What are the accusations, exactly?

    I stopped watching a couple minutes in, but Elira mentioned Selen revealing personal info including Enna and Elira's addresses in legal documents, and Vox said that she secretly recorded conversations with him while he was talking to her about overreacting/poorly reacting to management decisions, also that the bullying and harassment she claimed in her legal documents weren't real and was her overreacting to Vox and others trying to help her

    Olivaw
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    It is truly amazing that they do not understand that they need to stop digging.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
    ReynoldsMillmiscellaneousinsanityOlivawZamAndy JoePLA
  • MillMill Registered User regular
    Shit, had I known that, I would have popped in and said "Hey guys you weren't hired by Anycolor to shit on you former coworker. You should have told management "No" when they brought up this shit idea."

    I just blew it off because I don't want to give Anycolor any revenue and I figured they'd have the chat locked down so that only members or subscribers could post. So I wouldn't have been able to suggest anything positive anyways.

    It's just so shitty and it's going to do nothing for Anycolor because it pissed off a ton of people. A number of whom were going to either move on or watch the house of cards that is Anycolor come tumbling down. Instead that has probably motivate people to go shit in Anycolor's cheerios and sadly those three are probably going to get a bunch of undeserved shit. I'm going to give them the benefit of a doubt, which I do reserve the right to retract, that management coerced them into this dump fucking stunt and probably the fear of retaliation didn't make them tell management to fuck off here.

  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    edited February 13
    Even on the way home can feel the "hostage video" vibes from that. Yacht asswipe really lost it huh.

    TryCatcher on
  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    The Vtubing fans: Well, let's try to support the livers, if not the company. What a terrible situation.

    Anycolor: But what if... we used the Livers as our paid defense squad? Maybe we can turn some portion of the fanbase into a Zerg rush against Doki.

    Disappointed beyond reckoning with the three who spoke, I respected them a lot. To be manipulated in this way is really quite awful.

    I really need to get out there and say that, even if everything they are saying is true and they actually wanted to read those statements publicly? It is still rampantly and wildly unprofessional. Just on a fundamental level that is tacky, awful behavior

    This is the kind of shit you hash out in private, through lawyers, or in private correspondence. This is a business thing that should be handled professionally, and anything beyond that, the interpersonal drama or whatever, that’s not a public matter. Dragging it out into the open, putting your fans against each other, making them take sides, that’s miserable shit and if your company asked you to do that, you fuckin’ walk no matter how good your job is

    Whatever the circumstance was that got them to do this, I got nothing but contempt for it. But they ain’t blameless, and I sure won’t be watching any of their streams anymore

    I mean holy shit I can’t get over it, why would you ever do this, this is all anyone’s gonna think about you forever now, this is your legacy, you’ll never get away from it! Was it really worth it, because it fuckin’ better be

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  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    edited February 13
    Anycolor via the puppeted corpses of Elira, Ike, and Vox: Selen said a lot of mean things in a legal document, which Anycolor shared with us. She could have doxxed us with that document! It is our understanding that Selen broke rules too much and then overreacted. We all went to her as a group to find out why she wasn't taking management's pronouncements as law, and she saw that as threatening somehow! Imagine a whole bunch of your coworkers approaching you as a group to find out why you're so bad at your job, that's honestly a pretty great time. We're all sad that she was a shit head liar who betrayed us... but don't say or do anything about it, our fans. We know parasocial fans are famously very reliable in listening to directives like this, so this is a responsible thing for us to be doing.

    Doki: That was a private legal document for lawyer eyes only, prepare for a lot more documents, since Anycolor's lawyers have no understanding of professionalism.

    I'm really crushed by this, much more than the original announcement. It feels SO manipulated and orchestrated, to a truly menacing degree.

    shoeboxjeddy on
    TryCatcherTNTrooperMillOlivawOptyThegreatcow
  • JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    Crippl3 wrote: »
    august wrote: »
    What are the accusations, exactly?

    I stopped watching a couple minutes in, but Elira mentioned Selen revealing personal info including Enna and Elira's addresses in legal documents, and Vox said that she secretly recorded conversations with him while he was talking to her about overreacting/poorly reacting to management decisions, also that the bullying and harassment she claimed in her legal documents weren't real and was her overreacting to Vox and others trying to help her

    Has Doki said anything about her former coworkers? This just feels like another own goal, saying that Enna and Elira did something so bad it gets mentioned in legal documents.

  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    Does Vox speak Japanese? I read somewhere that since there are no English speaking EN staff, everything has to go through the livers that speak Japanese, which may explain Doki recording for future cya. Not that I’m saying it was legal or moral (or not) I have no idea, but it would pretty understandable for someone to do.

  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    Olivaw wrote: »
    Whatever the circumstance was that got them to do this, I got nothing but contempt for it. But they ain’t blameless, and I sure won’t be watching any of their streams anymore

    Even if none of them harassed her before this, frankly this stream absolutely fucking counts as harassment given it's timing.

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
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  • miscellaneousinsanitymiscellaneousinsanity grass grows, birds fly, sun shines, and brother, i hurt peopleRegistered User regular
    tweet from doki for now

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    TryCatcherTNTrooperMillIanatorSpectrumAzraith
  • TNTrooperTNTrooper Registered User regular
    august wrote: »
    What are the accusations, exactly?

    She doxxed Livers with private legal documents that were supposed to stay between lawyers had real name addresses cause you can't sue a VTuber on a YouTube channel. The only reason they should of had access to them is cause they were named in the lawsuit which means Niji management just outed the bullies or they posted private legal documents in their Discord and @'ed Everyone to get them on the run over Selen bus.

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  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    I’m really shocked at how much this is pissing me off! Like what a wildly unprofessional thing to do, on every level

    There is no job worth this, and I wish everyone at NijisanjiEN who has ethics a very get the fuck out of there

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  • JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    Olivaw wrote: »
    I’m really shocked at how much this is pissing me off! Like what a wildly unprofessional thing to do, on every level

    There is no job worth this, and I wish everyone at NijisanjiEN who has ethics a very get the fuck out of there

    Yeah I was personally not to to watch anything Niji anymore but could respect people who wanted to separate the artists from the company.

    Now the artists are the companies mouth piece, so fuck them I guess?

  • MillMill Registered User regular
    Dokibird has made it a point to not publicly disclose the names of any of her coworkers or managers. In fact, she didn't even disclose that she was being harassed by other talents, that was a claim that Anycolor made public.

    As for the recording of her conversation with Vox. I need more context than what I currently have and I'm not going to give Anycolor the +1 to views on Elira's channel to find it. I will say that the context matter because there are cases where Dokibird would have been within in legal rights to record the conversation and in some cases, the smart legal thing would be to record it.

    If all the document shit was going through him because we was the only person that spoke both English and Japanese, then she would absolutely be correct to record any official business discussion with him that involves company business like that. I mean, at this point it's no fucking secret that Anycolor is fucking shit at this and protecting one's self i needed. Hell, even if they were so fucking terrible, it's the smart thing to do and it is unprofessional to get butthurt about someone making sure they have proper documentation of serious business matters. That's not a slight against you honor, it's done as a matter of course as a means of protection because you never know when something will go fucky and you don't want to ever be in a position where you go "Gee, I really wish I had documented shit because I just got fucked over!"

    Also in a scenario where he was relying all the document shit, well she only has to tell him once that she going to record such conversations. If he didn't like that, he should have told management that "Hey, I don't like this, quite being cheap and hiring someone to do this instead of me, I'm suppose to be a vtuber, not the guy that relays official company business to my coworkers that don't speak or read Japanese!" Granted she might not have because it might well be perfectly legal for her to record without his consent. I'm not sure which country's laws have jurisdiction here (could be Japan's, could be Canada's or hell could be the US's if they were using a company based in the US to have their conversations).

    shoeboxjeddyBarrakkethPLA
  • TNTrooperTNTrooper Registered User regular
    Olivaw wrote: »
    I’m really shocked at how much this is pissing me off! Like what a wildly unprofessional thing to do, on every level

    There is no job worth this, and I wish everyone at NijisanjiEN who has ethics a very get the fuck out of there

    Unless Niji management took over their Livers Tweeter account and are impersonating them again then sadly a bunch of them Tweeted their support to this dumpster fire of a HR stunt.

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    shoeboxjeddy
  • miscellaneousinsanitymiscellaneousinsanity grass grows, birds fly, sun shines, and brother, i hurt peopleRegistered User regular
    i get the 'support the livers not the company' sentiment but them pulling this shit just got me to unsub from all the nijis that were in my list

    this shit is appalling

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  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    edited February 13
    Olivaw wrote: »
    I’m really shocked at how much this is pissing me off! Like what a wildly unprofessional thing to do, on every level

    There is no job worth this, and I wish everyone at NijisanjiEN who has ethics a very get the fuck out of there

    Bet you everything that Blackcolor threatened to sue the talents themselves if they didn't read this. Full blown hostage taking, and you know what the talent Blackcolor bullied into a suicide attempt really needed? Having to interrupt her planned stream to go deal with this fucking bullshit!!!

    TryCatcher on
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    Best I can tell until recently Canada was a single party consent state for recording. Also I'm not sure if it probably being Discord makes a difference? Is there even an expectation of privacy in like a group Discord voice channel for example?

    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • TNTrooperTNTrooper Registered User regular
    In lighter news.
    i'm gonna need some more outlets....
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    No Shinri you need a fire extinguisher certified for electrical fires.

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  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    TNTrooper wrote: »
    Olivaw wrote: »
    I’m really shocked at how much this is pissing me off! Like what a wildly unprofessional thing to do, on every level

    There is no job worth this, and I wish everyone at NijisanjiEN who has ethics a very get the fuck out of there

    Unless Niji management took over their Livers Tweeter account and are impersonating them again then sadly a bunch of them Tweeted their support to this dumpster fire of a HR stunt.

    Absolutely wild and insane, but good to know

    Again, I cannot stress this enough, even if Selen WAS a bad employee and a drama queen and overreacted and didn’t follow rules, this is clown shoes behavior. You don’t do this shit publicly! You just don’t! It’s tacky and shitty!

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  • SomeWarlockSomeWarlock Registered User regular
    Olivaw wrote: »
    I’m really shocked at how much this is pissing me off! Like what a wildly unprofessional thing to do, on every level

    There is no job worth this, and I wish everyone at NijisanjiEN who has ethics a very get the fuck out of there

    While I'd like anyone in NijisanjiEN who unhappy/mad at the current situation and management to get out, it's highly likely there's contractual issues that prevent them from leaving immediately.

    That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if we see a conga-line of graduations if we weren't already(the Niji "queue" rumor aside).

  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    Damn sure sounds like Selen feeling like she was being persecuted could have been avoided by, like, hiring an English speaking adult representative of the company to assure her that she’s not, and to encourage her to graduate on positive terms if she felt like she was being restricted in what she could do. But I guess this whole mess also works.

    shoeboxjeddyCrippl3
  • MillMill Registered User regular
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Best I can tell until recently Canada was a single party consent state for recording. Also I'm not sure if it probably being Discord makes a difference? Is there even an expectation of privacy in like a group Discord voice channel for example?

    Hence why the full context matters. There are laws that govern how and when recording of conversations can be done and when the consent of the party is needed.

    Now if i were a betting man, I'm leaning towards the idea that Vox doesn't have a leg to stand on, if he had a beef with this, because either it was done in a way where there was no reason to expect it to be private or that it was something she was in her legal right to record.

    shoeboxjeddyCentipede Damascus
  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    This has to be so fucking complicated with all the countries involved.

    Japan is a country where truth is not a protection from a defamation claim, which is nuts.

    Mill
  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    Mill wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Best I can tell until recently Canada was a single party consent state for recording. Also I'm not sure if it probably being Discord makes a difference? Is there even an expectation of privacy in like a group Discord voice channel for example?

    Hence why the full context matters. There are laws that govern how and when recording of conversations can be done and when the consent of the party is needed.

    Now if i were a betting man, I'm leaning towards the idea that Vox doesn't have a leg to stand on, if he had a beef with this, because either it was done in a way where there was no reason to expect it to be private or that it was something she was in her legal right to record.

    There’s also the very real possibility that he does not like it because it will make him look very bad

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  • DHSDHS Chase lizards.. ...bark at donkeys..Registered User regular
    yeah, for nijisanji to throw the ex-coworkers out as a shield, if they are right or wrong is a such an utterly vile move that I could listen to like 6 minutes of it before I was incandescent with rage.

    that's just fucking vile.

    "Grip 'em up, grip 'em, grip 'em good, said the Gryphon... to the pig."
    OlivawTryCatcher
  • rhylithrhylith Death Rabbits HoustonRegistered User regular
    I dunno shit about Canadian privacy and labor law but I hope Selen can fucking annihilate them.

    IanatorZamAzraith
  • Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    Dang Pomu and Mika got out at the absolute best time possible, huh

    shoeboxjeddyMillmiscellaneousinsanityCrippl3Corp.Shephard
  • OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    Dang Pomu and Mika got out at the absolute best time possible, huh

    I would very curious what they have to say about all this, but also I fundamentally don’t want to hear it because I don’t want to bother people publicly about this drama that should be kept private! It’s why I’m not going to blame anyone in the company or out who says they don’t want to talk about it, because it’s not business that belongs in a public forum!

    …that being said I would hope Pomu wouldn’t be where Elira is right now

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  • MadicanMadican No face Registered User regular
    Considering Japan's lovely defamation laws I wouldn't expect any of the Vtubers still at Anycolor, or recently departed from it, to publicly air any kind of dirty laundry. That's what makes this latest move by Anycolor so baffling. The way Japanese defamation law works is you only have to prove there was intent to harm, that's it. Truth isn't even an absolute defense, it's not a defense of any kind at all with that law. So for Anycolor to be doing this speaks volumes to how stupid they're being or how arrogant they are thinking they as a company can do it to Doki without repercussion.

    MillMercutio87
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