Pretty much true of all NIS games for me. Also, their interfaces scare me, sometimes they feel like someone went "Microsoft Excel? That's nothing, look at THESE number sheets!".
The game wasn't good enough to go on based on gameplay alone. At least some presentation is needed.
This statement is so incredibly wrong that it causes me physical pain to read it. Now perhaps its just me, but when judging a game in a genre which is based solely on mechanical play, in a series which is lauded for its gameplay mechanics I tend to think that said mechanics (your aforementioned gameplay) are in fact the majority of the experience and as such the game can go on based on gameplay alone. On top of the gameplay the Disgaea games also offer interesting characters and usually an engaging (and amusing story) - again elements not related to the resolution of the sprites.
The game wasn't good enough to go on based on gameplay alone. At least some presentation is needed.
This statement is so incredibly wrong that it causes me physical pain to read it. Now perhaps its just me, but when judging a game in a genre which is based solely on mechanical play, in a series which is lauded for its gameplay mechanics I tend to think that said mechanics (your aforementioned gameplay) are in fact the majority of the experience and as such the game can go on based on gameplay alone. On top of the gameplay the Disgaea games also offer interesting characters and usually an engaging (and amusing story) - again elements not related to the resolution of the sprites.
While it would be great if all people cared about was gameplay, but this is the real world and people see a game via it's graphics first and gameplay second.
If N1 wants to remain in business, they need to
a) at least put in the effort to up-res their spritework to accomodate Gamecube technology, let alone PS3/360 (see: Paper Mario TTYD) or
b) go 3D.
The game wasn't good enough to go on based on gameplay alone. At least some presentation is needed.
This statement is so incredibly wrong that it causes me physical pain to read it. Now perhaps its just me, but when judging a game in a genre which is based solely on mechanical play, in a series which is lauded for its gameplay mechanics I tend to think that said mechanics (your aforementioned gameplay) are in fact the majority of the experience and as such the game can go on based on gameplay alone. On top of the gameplay the Disgaea games also offer interesting characters and usually an engaging (and amusing story) - again elements not related to the resolution of the sprites.
While it would be great if all people cared about was gameplay, but this is the real world and people see a game via it's graphics first and gameplay second.
If N1 wants to remain in business, they need to
a) at least put in the effort to up-res their spritework to accomodate Gamecube technology, let alone PS3/360 (see: Paper Mario TTYD) or
b) go 3D.
No, you people are misunderstanding my point. I never said that graphics were more important than gameplay, I said the underlying gameplay on Disgaea isn't strong enough to support such basic presentation.
It's hard saying this to honest fans of the series, but the truth is there's a consensus about Disgaea being fun and quirky, but not the most polished or well designed tactical RPG experience. Its reviews are in the high 7s and that sounds about right, maybe low 8s would be more accurate. It's just not the kind of game that would get a cult following if it was done all in ASCII.
So when you're going next-gen with it, you need to upgrade the graphics at least somewhat. Alien Hominid doesn't look like a SNES game, it puts hardware to use, even if it's for a basic, cartoony look. Odin Sphere doesn't look like a PSOne game. Disgaea 3 looks like I might just wait for the PSP port. There's no way I'm paying full price for something like that.
And if you want to discuss gameplay mechanics shown in the videos, that doesn't inspire me, either. They took the most obtuse aspect of Disgaea's gameplay and turned it into a huge thing. They made destructible environments out of squares, which is one step down the road of abstraction for a game that's very much story-driven. Plus it looks like wrapping your mind around a puzzle game element at the same time you keep track of Disgaea's already dense and obscure set of tactical RPG rules might just be too much to be enjoyable.
I hope I'm proven wrong on both accounts, but I stand by my statement: so far, Disgaea 3 is not looking good.
The game wasn't good enough to go on based on gameplay alone. At least some presentation is needed.
This statement is so incredibly wrong that it causes me physical pain to read it. Now perhaps its just me, but when judging a game in a genre which is based solely on mechanical play, in a series which is lauded for its gameplay mechanics I tend to think that said mechanics (your aforementioned gameplay) are in fact the majority of the experience and as such the game can go on based on gameplay alone. On top of the gameplay the Disgaea games also offer interesting characters and usually an engaging (and amusing story) - again elements not related to the resolution of the sprites.
While it would be great if all people cared about was gameplay, but this is the real world and people see a game via it's graphics first and gameplay second.
If N1 wants to remain in business, they need to
a) at least put in the effort to up-res their spritework to accomodate Gamecube technology, let alone PS3/360 (see: Paper Mario TTYD) or
b) go 3D.
The game wasn't good enough to go on based on gameplay alone. At least some presentation is needed.
This statement is so incredibly wrong that it causes me physical pain to read it. Now perhaps its just me, but when judging a game in a genre which is based solely on mechanical play, in a series which is lauded for its gameplay mechanics I tend to think that said mechanics (your aforementioned gameplay) are in fact the majority of the experience and as such the game can go on based on gameplay alone. On top of the gameplay the Disgaea games also offer interesting characters and usually an engaging (and amusing story) - again elements not related to the resolution of the sprites.
While it would be great if all people cared about was gameplay, but this is the real world and people see a game via it's graphics first and gameplay second.
If N1 wants to remain in business, they need to
a) at least put in the effort to up-res their spritework to accomodate Gamecube technology, let alone PS3/360 (see: Paper Mario TTYD) or
b) go 3D.
Paper Mario is a 3D game.
Technically, so is Disgaea. It's sprites on 3d backgrounds.
Put it on Wii or 360. if you do 360, i'll consider buying one. but this... this was such a bad move. i mean really. how do you expect to sell games on a console that isn't selling very well to begin with. go with your widest consumer base and expand from there.
Man, fuck you. This is just blatantly untrue at this point. The PS3 is pretty much EXACTLY where the xbox360 was last year at this time. If its a colossal failure, so is the 360.
I mean, im not trying to start a "ZOMG THIS CONSUL IS BETTAR" argument, but come on. The PS3 is finally getting some exclusives worth buying, and people just shitting all over them saying "Why cant this come out on another console????"
Also, youre anything but completely unsurprised that DISGAEA 3 is coming out on a sony product exclusively? Did you miss the first 2 or something?
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I doubt the plot in an N1 game will ever really develop past basic. It's a shame too. Maybe with a stronger story I could keep going with one of these games. Right now I just have a weird obsession with collecting them. I'm not sure I even played Makai Kingdoms, I have no memory of buying it but there it is on my shelf.
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From what I've read/been told, it takes place in the Netherworld School for Demons, where being bad is good and good bad, etc. You play a snotty student who is sort of like a mad scientist in training. One day he decides to become a "hero", except he has a warped idea of heroism, so it tends to go south at every turn.
That's pretty much it for the premise, or what I understand to be the premise. Characters so far are fun to listen to, but since my Japanese skill has dropped to roughly absolute zero, I can't comment much on how funny it actually is.
I'm interested to see how this sells...I can't justify picking up any console for more than 300 at this point in my life. Maybe once I graduate.
If my ears aren't mistaken, it sounds like Tenpai Saito is doing a few of the tracks in the new game. I like his style, so it'd be great to have him composing a majority of the soundtrack again. I like the areas that the characters run around in, so it's nice to see those in more detail.
NIS' decision to go with sprites instead of 3D models makes sense to me if they decided to keep a good chunk of ones used from previous games. I believe this is the first year that a NIS game hasn't been released in August and they've had a pretty rigorous schedule pumping out their yearlies. I think if they minimized cost and pulled in enough profit, they might attempt something riskier with their next installment, but that profit might come up short because of the amount of PS3 users that will be interested in an NIS game. NIS made some games in the past that I absolutely love, but I'm looking at how they run their business and wonder if they're going to fall into the EA grind or attempt something drastically (game play or stylistically) new.
Of course, be too cool and groovy and you go the way of clover studios. And for a niche genre, putting too much into development can bite you where it hurts.
ErrrrrrrrrrrrNO. It takes far, far longer to model, texture and bone a character than it does to simply create a sprite, even a number of sprites. Now, you might have a case with a game like, say, Guilty Gear X, where characters have insane amounts of high resolution frames to animate. Disgaea however? Not even close. Especially not at that resolution.
I can confirm this first-hand. Sprites take a fraction of the time. I happen to like them more often, but they are the easier option. The only easier thing for polygons is cinematics, these days. It's a bit harder to do a sprite-based dramatic scene than it is with polygons, if for no other reason than the angle options. Put another way, the same script would look more dramatic (and involving) with modern polygons than modern sprites. (To me, obviously.)
I'm siding with the PS2 crowd here, and I own a PS3 - this title would be easy to release on the PS2 and I imagine the reason is with Sony: they did say they wanted to release fewer titles this year on the PS2 to increase the gravity of the PS3.
Why do people come into this thread a bitch about the fact that its on the PS3? Get over it. I dont own a Wii and therefore cannot play No More Heroes. That sucks but Im not going to go into the NMH thread and bitch about it. That would be dumb.
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Why do people come into this thread a bitch about the fact that its on the PS3? Get over it. I dont own a Wii and therefore cannot play No More Heroes. That sucks but Im not going to go into the NMH thread and bitch about it. That would be dumb.
I don't hear bitching because it's on the PS3, I hear bitching because it looks bad enough to be on the PS2. There's a subtle but important difference.
Why do people come into this thread a bitch about the fact that its on the PS3? Get over it. I dont own a Wii and therefore cannot play No More Heroes. That sucks but Im not going to go into the NMH thread and bitch about it. That would be dumb.
I don't hear bitching because it's on the PS3, I hear bitching because it looks bad enough to be on the PS2. There's a subtle but important difference.
Agreed, I have a PS3, but can recognize bullshit when it is presented to me.
The soundtrack is indeed done by Tenpei Sato. And I like it a lot more than some of his other recent offerings. Not that they were bad, but this feels much more varied and interesting.
I posted this in the JRPG thread but I feel like it might need mentioning here...
I just got my Disgaea 3 special edition from Japan and it's one of the nicest special editions I've seen. Certainly better than anything released here in the states in th past couple of years. It includes:
Disgaea 3 game
Hardbound artbook
2 disc CD Soundtrack
Additional CD with the Theme songs from previous Disgaea games
Nice, oversized storage box.
It was $88 plus shipping, not bad for an import special edition.
I haven't started the game yet so no comment on that so far. I'll let you know what I think when I get a chance to start.
I posted this in the JRPG thread but I feel like it might need mentioning here...
I just got my Disgaea 3 special edition from Japan and it's one of the nicest special editions I've seen. Certainly better than anything released here in the states in th past couple of years. It includes:
Disgaea 3 game
Hardbound artbook
2 disc CD Soundtrack
Additional CD with the Theme songs from previous Disgaea games
Nice, oversized storage box.
It was $88 plus shipping, not bad for an import special edition.
I haven't started the game yet so no comment on that so far. I'll let you know what I think when I get a chance to start.
All my issues with the graphics aside, that is a nice deal.
I posted this in the JRPG thread but I feel like it might need mentioning here...
I just got my Disgaea 3 special edition from Japan and it's one of the nicest special editions I've seen. Certainly better than anything released here in the states in th past couple of years. It includes:
Disgaea 3 game
Hardbound artbook
2 disc CD Soundtrack
Additional CD with the Theme songs from previous Disgaea games
Nice, oversized storage box.
It was $88 plus shipping, not bad for an import special edition.
I haven't started the game yet so no comment on that so far. I'll let you know what I think when I get a chance to start.
All my issues with the graphics aside, that is a nice deal.
Graphics don't mean a lot to me when it comes to NIS strategy games. Yeah, it would be nice to see something other than sprites but they also have their charm. Lots of charm, actually... I'm not sure how I'd feel about seeing a 3D Disgaea game.
It does make me wonder if this game will ever see the light of day here in the US. It was my understanding that Sony in the US is pretty strict with regards to how games look on their system. They want the best possible looking games coming out...
@ Houk - I did get an English Language reference card with my game but the game itself is in JPN. My JPN is limited but I'm assuming that I'm not going to have too much trouble playing. I might not be able to understand the plot but that's another matter.
From what I've read/been told, it takes place in the Netherworld School for Demons, where being bad is good and good bad, etc. You play a snotty student who is sort of like a mad scientist in training. One day he decides to become a "hero", except he has a warped idea of heroism, so it tends to go south at every turn.
That's pretty much it for the premise, or what I understand to be the premise. Characters so far are fun to listen to, but since my Japanese skill has dropped to roughly absolute zero, I can't comment much on how funny it actually is.
Thanks.
I'm sure there will be some returning characters and suchlike, but do we have any idea who?
From what I've read/been told, it takes place in the Netherworld School for Demons, where being bad is good and good bad, etc. You play a snotty student who is sort of like a mad scientist in training. One day he decides to become a "hero", except he has a warped idea of heroism, so it tends to go south at every turn.
That's pretty much it for the premise, or what I understand to be the premise. Characters so far are fun to listen to, but since my Japanese skill has dropped to roughly absolute zero, I can't comment much on how funny it actually is.
Thanks.
I'm sure there will be some returning characters and suchlike, but do we have any idea who?
From what I've read/been told, it takes place in the Netherworld School for Demons, where being bad is good and good bad, etc. You play a snotty student who is sort of like a mad scientist in training. One day he decides to become a "hero", except he has a warped idea of heroism, so it tends to go south at every turn.
That's pretty much it for the premise, or what I understand to be the premise. Characters so far are fun to listen to, but since my Japanese skill has dropped to roughly absolute zero, I can't comment much on how funny it actually is.
Thanks.
I'm sure there will be some returning characters and suchlike, but do we have any idea who?
I have no idea who all will actually be unlockable. Hopefully we'll get a JPNS strat guide sent to us or something, and I can find out then. Or maybe it's posted up on gamefaqs. Suppose I'll go take a gander!
From what I've read/been told, it takes place in the Netherworld School for Demons, where being bad is good and good bad, etc. You play a snotty student who is sort of like a mad scientist in training. One day he decides to become a "hero", except he has a warped idea of heroism, so it tends to go south at every turn.
But yeah seriously, it seems like they're gunning for the $60 a pop PS3 game instead of the $40 a pop PS2 one. Or maybe it's a marketing thing, people don't wanna buy PS2 games anymore? Thus ends my attempt at conjecture and hearsay.
But yeah even though I own a PS3 and love Disgaea, I have a little trouble picking this up for $60, unless it's $60 for a special edition.
While I'm a little disappointed that they didn't upgrade the sprites, I think it's absurd to complain about paying $60 for this game. I put 80-some hours into Disgaea and upwards of 100 into Disgaea 2. I'm betting I'll get significantly more for my money with D3 than I do from half of the graphics intensive games I play.
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This statement is so incredibly wrong that it causes me physical pain to read it. Now perhaps its just me, but when judging a game in a genre which is based solely on mechanical play, in a series which is lauded for its gameplay mechanics I tend to think that said mechanics (your aforementioned gameplay) are in fact the majority of the experience and as such the game can go on based on gameplay alone. On top of the gameplay the Disgaea games also offer interesting characters and usually an engaging (and amusing story) - again elements not related to the resolution of the sprites.
While it would be great if all people cared about was gameplay, but this is the real world and people see a game via it's graphics first and gameplay second.
If N1 wants to remain in business, they need to
a) at least put in the effort to up-res their spritework to accomodate Gamecube technology, let alone PS3/360 (see: Paper Mario TTYD) or
b) go 3D.
No, you people are misunderstanding my point. I never said that graphics were more important than gameplay, I said the underlying gameplay on Disgaea isn't strong enough to support such basic presentation.
It's hard saying this to honest fans of the series, but the truth is there's a consensus about Disgaea being fun and quirky, but not the most polished or well designed tactical RPG experience. Its reviews are in the high 7s and that sounds about right, maybe low 8s would be more accurate. It's just not the kind of game that would get a cult following if it was done all in ASCII.
So when you're going next-gen with it, you need to upgrade the graphics at least somewhat. Alien Hominid doesn't look like a SNES game, it puts hardware to use, even if it's for a basic, cartoony look. Odin Sphere doesn't look like a PSOne game. Disgaea 3 looks like I might just wait for the PSP port. There's no way I'm paying full price for something like that.
And if you want to discuss gameplay mechanics shown in the videos, that doesn't inspire me, either. They took the most obtuse aspect of Disgaea's gameplay and turned it into a huge thing. They made destructible environments out of squares, which is one step down the road of abstraction for a game that's very much story-driven. Plus it looks like wrapping your mind around a puzzle game element at the same time you keep track of Disgaea's already dense and obscure set of tactical RPG rules might just be too much to be enjoyable.
I hope I'm proven wrong on both accounts, but I stand by my statement: so far, Disgaea 3 is not looking good.
Technically, so is Disgaea. It's sprites on 3d backgrounds.
Man, fuck you. This is just blatantly untrue at this point. The PS3 is pretty much EXACTLY where the xbox360 was last year at this time. If its a colossal failure, so is the 360.
I mean, im not trying to start a "ZOMG THIS CONSUL IS BETTAR" argument, but come on. The PS3 is finally getting some exclusives worth buying, and people just shitting all over them saying "Why cant this come out on another console????"
Also, youre anything but completely unsurprised that DISGAEA 3 is coming out on a sony product exclusively? Did you miss the first 2 or something?
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That's pretty much it for the premise, or what I understand to be the premise. Characters so far are fun to listen to, but since my Japanese skill has dropped to roughly absolute zero, I can't comment much on how funny it actually is.
If my ears aren't mistaken, it sounds like Tenpai Saito is doing a few of the tracks in the new game. I like his style, so it'd be great to have him composing a majority of the soundtrack again. I like the areas that the characters run around in, so it's nice to see those in more detail.
NIS' decision to go with sprites instead of 3D models makes sense to me if they decided to keep a good chunk of ones used from previous games. I believe this is the first year that a NIS game hasn't been released in August and they've had a pretty rigorous schedule pumping out their yearlies. I think if they minimized cost and pulled in enough profit, they might attempt something riskier with their next installment, but that profit might come up short because of the amount of PS3 users that will be interested in an NIS game. NIS made some games in the past that I absolutely love, but I'm looking at how they run their business and wonder if they're going to fall into the EA grind or attempt something drastically (game play or stylistically) new.
Of course, be too cool and groovy and you go the way of clover studios. And for a niche genre, putting too much into development can bite you where it hurts.
I can confirm this first-hand. Sprites take a fraction of the time. I happen to like them more often, but they are the easier option. The only easier thing for polygons is cinematics, these days. It's a bit harder to do a sprite-based dramatic scene than it is with polygons, if for no other reason than the angle options. Put another way, the same script would look more dramatic (and involving) with modern polygons than modern sprites. (To me, obviously.)
I'm siding with the PS2 crowd here, and I own a PS3 - this title would be easy to release on the PS2 and I imagine the reason is with Sony: they did say they wanted to release fewer titles this year on the PS2 to increase the gravity of the PS3.
I don't hear bitching because it's on the PS3, I hear bitching because it looks bad enough to be on the PS2. There's a subtle but important difference.
Agreed, I have a PS3, but can recognize bullshit when it is presented to me.
I just got my Disgaea 3 special edition from Japan and it's one of the nicest special editions I've seen. Certainly better than anything released here in the states in th past couple of years. It includes:
Disgaea 3 game
Hardbound artbook
2 disc CD Soundtrack
Additional CD with the Theme songs from previous Disgaea games
Nice, oversized storage box.
It was $88 plus shipping, not bad for an import special edition.
I haven't started the game yet so no comment on that so far. I'll let you know what I think when I get a chance to start.
All my issues with the graphics aside, that is a nice deal.
here. [HTML]http://kotaku.com/352761/atlus-infects-wii-with-octomania[/HTML]
I apologize, it seems its Atlus and not N1
Graphics don't mean a lot to me when it comes to NIS strategy games. Yeah, it would be nice to see something other than sprites but they also have their charm. Lots of charm, actually... I'm not sure how I'd feel about seeing a 3D Disgaea game.
It does make me wonder if this game will ever see the light of day here in the US. It was my understanding that Sony in the US is pretty strict with regards to how games look on their system. They want the best possible looking games coming out...
@ Houk - I did get an English Language reference card with my game but the game itself is in JPN. My JPN is limited but I'm assuming that I'm not going to have too much trouble playing. I might not be able to understand the plot but that's another matter.
Thanks.
I'm sure there will be some returning characters and suchlike, but do we have any idea who?
Laharl and crew are in the game's OP... so...
I was more thinking playable.
Hiro Nakamura?
sweet
But yeah seriously, it seems like they're gunning for the $60 a pop PS3 game instead of the $40 a pop PS2 one. Or maybe it's a marketing thing, people don't wanna buy PS2 games anymore? Thus ends my attempt at conjecture and hearsay.
But yeah even though I own a PS3 and love Disgaea, I have a little trouble picking this up for $60, unless it's $60 for a special edition.
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