Seriously this entire countdown stuff must be a long time april 1 joke or something. I just read the issue,
Stuff at newsrama are
Real, Darkseed really dies for good.
Ok something major something big happened but still what the hell. There were some dialog boxes that really made my day.
About Dialogs
Ok there is this scene where giant sized Darkseid and Jimmy fighting in metropolis. And it is one of those flaws where heroes get tossed around as if they are baseballs.So long story short, bridges are falling down, buildings are collapsing. At best thousands are probably dead. And we have this tv lady whom reports the incident.
I once had a teacher who said the word Awesome should only be used in reference to God, and that anything else would be sacrilege. I wonder if she meant New Gods as well...
I think Kolins was going for a Kirby/Giffen look - that's fairly close to his usual style, regardless.
I don't think that was Darkseid - his emo "not me!" death speech did not sound very Darkseid-esque. Caveat - it would not be the first time a COUNTDOWN writer screwed up on making a character sound as they normally sound.
Not to derail the current discussion, but were there any parts that people liked?
disappointing as the title was, I had fun reading the Piper/Trickster story. And even though I had trouble wrapping my brainpan around the lead up, Piper's final performance really stuck with me.
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AngryThe glory I had witnessedwas just a sleight of handRegistered Userregular
Seriously this entire countdown stuff must be a long time april 1 joke or something. I just read the issue,
Stuff at newsrama are
Real, Darkseed really dies for good.
Ok something major something big happened but still what the hell. There were some dialog boxes that really made my day.
About Dialogs
Ok there is this scene where giant sized Darkseid and Jimmy fighting in metropolis. And it is one of those flaws where heroes get tossed around as if they are baseballs.So long story short, bridges are falling down, buildings are collapsing. At best thousands are probably dead. And we have this tv lady whom reports the incident.
About Art ( And dialogues for some)
And my another complaint is about the art. I will not comment on it just check it out
are you sure you know what the word awesome means?
You all know that Kirby meant for Darkseid to die, right?
I'm pretty sure his death here is meant to fulfill Kirby's plans for the character. As such, I don't think resurrecting the character will come as easily as it does for other villains.
Not to derail the current discussion, but were there any parts that people liked?
disappointing as the title was, I had fun reading the Piper/Trickster story. And even though I had trouble wrapping my brainpan around the lead up, Piper's final performance really stuck with me.
I liked that one issue where Superman Prime totally fucked up an entire universe. Other than that I can't think of many moments in the series that really stood out as good.
edit* The Monitors vs. Monarch's army was pretty cool too.
You all know that Kirby meant for Darkseid to die, right?
I'm pretty sure his death here is meant to fulfill Kirby's plans for the character. As such, I don't think resurrecting the character will come as easily as it does for other villains.
except that Morrison has gone on at length that Darkseid is the main villain of FC, at least the actual being that is Darkseid beyond the limited form the DCU has seen him in up until now.
I'm pretty sure this whole "Let's kill the New Gods" thing isn't 'killing" them as much as it is causing them to ascend to their true forms.
You all know that Kirby meant for Darkseid to die, right?
I'm pretty sure his death here is meant to fulfill Kirby's plans for the character. As such, I don't think resurrecting the character will come as easily as it does for other villains.
except that Morrison has gone on at length that Darkseid is the main villain of FC, at least the actual being that is Darkseid beyond the limited form the DCU has seen him in up until now.
I'm pretty sure this whole "Let's kill the New Gods" thing isn't 'killing" them as much as it is causing them to ascend to their true forms.
Have some of you guys been listening to a word DC have said over the last, like, 5-8 months? The Fourth World dies, the Fifth World is born. The Fourth World version of Darkseid is dead, alongside most of the other New Gods, but that doesn't mean that the Fifth World Darkseid or the other Fifth World New Gods can't appear in Final Crisis.
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited April 2008
Really, I think even if people were written in character, the story would be terrible. There were really no decent characters to begin with besides the challengers and piper/trickster, which they fucked up horribly.
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Bloods EndBlade of TyshallePunch dimensionRegistered Userregular
I'm kind of interested in seeing Jimmy's relationship angst, but with Jason Todd is just seems like they've put him back exactly where he was before, though he seems to have ditched his hood.
God damn it, I know it's been beaten to death but looking at that preview for Countdown #1, I am simply astounded at the bloody, coat hanger-induced abortion this series shaped up to be.
Yeah, I get a WTF WAS THE POINT? vibe from it. I mean, yeah, they set up Kamandi world, but that was the only permanent thing that happened- everything else was either self contained, or will be reversed later.
Yeah, I get a WTF WAS THE POINT? vibe from it. I mean, yeah, they set up Kamandi world, but that was the only permanent thing that happened- everything else was either self contained, or will be reversed later.
I don't really see the point of doing that either, they could've just said "Earth-34 is Kamandi's world" and we wouldn't of had to go through that god-awful story.
Countdown was overall, pretty pointless. You could just read Salvation Run and Death of the New Gods and you'd probably have a better idea of what happened going into Final Crisis.
Fencingsax: No decent characters outside of the Challengers and Piper/Trickster? o_O Are you seriously saying Harley Quinn isn't a good character? Not to mention Mary Marvel, Karate Kid and Triplicate Girl. There's a pretty big difference between a bad character and just poor writing.
Yeah, I get a WTF WAS THE POINT? vibe from it. I mean, yeah, they set up Kamandi world, but that was the only permanent thing that happened- everything else was either self contained, or will be reversed later.
I don't really see the point of doing that either, they could've just said "Earth-34 is Kamandi's world" and we wouldn't of had to go through that god-awful story.
Countdown was overall, pretty pointless. You could just read Salvation Run and Death of the New Gods and you'd probably have a better idea of what happened going into Final Crisis.
Fencingsax: No decent characters outside of the Challengers and Piper/Trickster? o_O Are you seriously saying Harley Quinn isn't a good character? Not to mention Mary Marvel, Karate Kid and Triplicate Girl. There's a pretty big difference between a bad character and just poor writing.
No, they completely fucked every single one of those characters up. (Of course, I didn't sympathize with Harley in the first place, but that's another story)
Yeah, I get a WTF WAS THE POINT? vibe from it. I mean, yeah, they set up Kamandi world, but that was the only permanent thing that happened- everything else was either self contained, or will be reversed later.
I don't really see the point of doing that either, they could've just said "Earth-34 is Kamandi's world" and we wouldn't of had to go through that god-awful story.
Countdown was overall, pretty pointless. You could just read Salvation Run and Death of the New Gods and you'd probably have a better idea of what happened going into Final Crisis.
Fencingsax: No decent characters outside of the Challengers and Piper/Trickster? o_O Are you seriously saying Harley Quinn isn't a good character? Not to mention Mary Marvel, Karate Kid and Triplicate Girl. There's a pretty big difference between a bad character and just poor writing.
No, they completely fucked every single one of those characters up. (Of course, I didn't sympathize with Harley in the first place, but that's another story)
Well yeah, shitty writing tends to fuck up characters, but what I was saying was that even so, that doesn't make them "bad characters". Put them back in the hands of a good writer and they should be fine, just look at Kyle in GLC.
Whereas you sounded like you were saying that the book would've been crap regardless, because "there were no decent characters to begin with besides the challengers and piper/trickster". Or have I mis-understood what you were saying?
Yeah, I get a WTF WAS THE POINT? vibe from it. I mean, yeah, they set up Kamandi world, but that was the only permanent thing that happened- everything else was either self contained, or will be reversed later.
I don't really see the point of doing that either, they could've just said "Earth-34 is Kamandi's world" and we wouldn't of had to go through that god-awful story.
Countdown was overall, pretty pointless. You could just read Salvation Run and Death of the New Gods and you'd probably have a better idea of what happened going into Final Crisis.
Fencingsax: No decent characters outside of the Challengers and Piper/Trickster? o_O Are you seriously saying Harley Quinn isn't a good character? Not to mention Mary Marvel, Karate Kid and Triplicate Girl. There's a pretty big difference between a bad character and just poor writing.
No, they completely fucked every single one of those characters up. (Of course, I didn't sympathize with Harley in the first place, but that's another story)
Well yeah, shitty writing tends to fuck up characters, but what I was saying was that even so, that doesn't make them "bad characters". Put them back in the hands of a good writer and they should be fine, just look at Kyle in GLC.
Whereas you sounded like you were saying that the book would've been crap regardless, because "there were no decent characters to begin with besides the challengers and piper/trickster". Or have I mis-understood what you were saying?
Oh no, if the book had been well written, things probably would have been fine. I liked Mary Marvel before this, but they fucked her up. I had no idea who Holly was, but an ex-Catwoman probably would've been kind of cool. I was somewhat indifferent about Harley, and I don't really like where they've been going with her (frankly, I think she was best with Ivy) at all, but I see where things could've been OK, if the whole Amazons attack/Olympian gods thing hadn't been made of suck*. Unfortunately, they were all terribly written. I cannot stand Jimmy Olson, and I wish he wasn't in actual New Earth continuity. I had never really read anything from the Legion, so I knew nothing about Karate Kid, Triplicate Girl, etc, but again, terrible writing completely fucked that up. (On another note, I do like the current Legion, even if I'm not bothering to figure out continuity, and I liked the last Arc of Action Comics). As for Brother Eye, I hated that whole part of Infinite Crisis, as it was poorly handled to begin with, and Countdown didn't really do it any favors.
*Considering the fact that she's apparently now back to her Mistah J personality, I see I was justified in my objection of the goddess of comedy favoring her, vis a vis "anyone who finds the Joker funny is not a good guy"
I'm just left scratching my head, asking "what was the point?"
What was the point of making Mary Marvel "evil", have her redeem herself, only to succomb to "evil" again?
What was the point of giving Jason Todd the Red Robin persona, only to have him ditch it?
What was the point of reintroducing Brother Eye as a galactic problem, only to remove it?
What was the point of Monarch gathering together universal doppelgangers, only to have his army obliterated?
What was the point of re-creating the multiverse, only to destroy earth after earth for no real reason other than "Superman Prime is a psychotic jackhole"?
If none of this is a set up for Final Crisis- was there a point?
I'm just left scratching my head, asking "what was the point?"
Well see, DC comics? They really like money? And most comic fans? They're really fucking stupid and buy things for awful reasons. And they have money.
I flipped through this week's Countdown as I always do, and was quite bemused by Mary Marvel's, "I'm Mary damn Marvel!" line. It's like somebody sat down and said, "How can I possibly get this character as wrong as possible?" and then did it. Next up; Superman the foul-mouthed rapist and Batman the mass murdering pedophile.
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Kyle
Maybe he was trying to imitate Kirby.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
I don't think that was Darkseid - his emo "not me!" death speech did not sound very Darkseid-esque. Caveat - it would not be the first time a COUNTDOWN writer screwed up on making a character sound as they normally sound.
That would make sense and was what I was thinking, but I haven't read any Kirby so I didn't want to jump to conclusions.
disappointing as the title was, I had fun reading the Piper/Trickster story. And even though I had trouble wrapping my brainpan around the lead up, Piper's final performance really stuck with me.
are you sure you know what the word awesome means?
Like if you see the face of God and you start crying. And maybe shit yourself.
I'm pretty sure his death here is meant to fulfill Kirby's plans for the character. As such, I don't think resurrecting the character will come as easily as it does for other villains.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
I liked that one issue where Superman Prime totally fucked up an entire universe. Other than that I can't think of many moments in the series that really stood out as good.
edit* The Monitors vs. Monarch's army was pretty cool too.
except that Morrison has gone on at length that Darkseid is the main villain of FC, at least the actual being that is Darkseid beyond the limited form the DCU has seen him in up until now.
I'm pretty sure this whole "Let's kill the New Gods" thing isn't 'killing" them as much as it is causing them to ascend to their true forms.
Morrison said the true villain will not be revealed till the last issue, or maybe the 6th.
Preview for Countdown #1.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Fixed.
fixed.
Really? I thought it was pretty good. Nice and clean, the faces don't look like they were drawn by a retarded child, no stupid looks on peoples faces.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Edit: What the fuck? Apparently Darkseid is one "not to get his hands dirty if he can avoid it". Do they just not read comics or something?
I don't really see the point of doing that either, they could've just said "Earth-34 is Kamandi's world" and we wouldn't of had to go through that god-awful story.
Countdown was overall, pretty pointless. You could just read Salvation Run and Death of the New Gods and you'd probably have a better idea of what happened going into Final Crisis.
Fencingsax: No decent characters outside of the Challengers and Piper/Trickster? o_O Are you seriously saying Harley Quinn isn't a good character? Not to mention Mary Marvel, Karate Kid and Triplicate Girl. There's a pretty big difference between a bad character and just poor writing.
Well yeah, shitty writing tends to fuck up characters, but what I was saying was that even so, that doesn't make them "bad characters". Put them back in the hands of a good writer and they should be fine, just look at Kyle in GLC.
Whereas you sounded like you were saying that the book would've been crap regardless, because "there were no decent characters to begin with besides the challengers and piper/trickster". Or have I mis-understood what you were saying?
*Considering the fact that she's apparently now back to her Mistah J personality, I see I was justified in my objection of the goddess of comedy favoring her, vis a vis "anyone who finds the Joker funny is not a good guy"
What was the point of making Mary Marvel "evil", have her redeem herself, only to succomb to "evil" again?
What was the point of giving Jason Todd the Red Robin persona, only to have him ditch it?
What was the point of reintroducing Brother Eye as a galactic problem, only to remove it?
What was the point of Monarch gathering together universal doppelgangers, only to have his army obliterated?
What was the point of re-creating the multiverse, only to destroy earth after earth for no real reason other than "Superman Prime is a psychotic jackhole"?
If none of this is a set up for Final Crisis- was there a point?
Maybe as soon as they dropped the whole "Spine of the DC Universe" thing.
And from then on, they pretty much just made up a whole new storyline on the spot.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Well see, DC comics? They really like money? And most comic fans? They're really fucking stupid and buy things for awful reasons. And they have money.
I flipped through this week's Countdown as I always do, and was quite bemused by Mary Marvel's, "I'm Mary damn Marvel!" line. It's like somebody sat down and said, "How can I possibly get this character as wrong as possible?" and then did it. Next up; Superman the foul-mouthed rapist and Batman the mass murdering pedophile.
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