Yeah, I loved arguing in favor of Bioshock's brilliance when the inevitable critical backlash came, and even I won't bother with this. When the main theme of the game is the futility and illusion of choice, rendered extremely well through personal interaction, and you decide to remake it in a non-interactive medium... you're missing the point.
I mean, obviously I'd like the Bioshock story to be heard by as many people as possible, so dissemination is nice, but something essential will be lost. Pass.
Maybe this is yet another element of the game.
"But I don't want the game to be made into a movie..."
Yeah, Ken Levine teased the whole Andrew Ryan voice actor mystery for the longest time on the official forums. No one guessed it, because he doesn't sound anything like his previous roles, but it's him alright.
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All creature will die and all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai.
Because it relied mainly upon gaming conventions and mechanics to make sense.
You literally couldnt progress in the game unless you picked up the radio, or did this or turned that.
In a movie, where you are not constrained by these mechanics, it would look weird for the Jack character to be following orders so fanatically.
Of course they could work around it a little, but it would be much more obvious what was going on.
In the game, Atlas says to do this, and whether you want to or not you have to, because the game is forcing you to. If you take away these game mechanics then there is a less strong twist.
Because it relied mainly upon gaming conventions and mechanics to make sense.
You literally couldnt progress in the game unless you picked up the radio, or did this or turned that.
In a movie, where you are not constrained by these mechanics, it would look weird for the Jack character to be following orders so fanatically.
Of course they could work around it a little, but it would be much more obvious what was going on.
In the game, Atlas says to do this, and whether you want to or not you have to, because the game is forcing you to. If you take away these game mechanics then there is a less strong twist.
Not to mention that a big reason the twist was done so well is that it played out over ~6-8 hours of gameplay, by which time the clues are kind of sitting there in your mind, but not necessarily obvious. Try shoehorning the key lines and clues into a 2 hour movie and it's going to be really blatant - hell, the dialogue would be saturated with it.
Because it relied mainly upon gaming conventions and mechanics to make sense.
You literally couldnt progress in the game unless you picked up the radio, or did this or turned that.
In a movie, where you are not constrained by these mechanics, it would look weird for the Jack character to be following orders so fanatically.
Of course they could work around it a little, but it would be much more obvious what was going on.
In the game, Atlas says to do this, and whether you want to or not you have to, because the game is forcing you to. If you take away these game mechanics then there is a less strong twist.
Not to mention that a big reason the twist was done so well is that it played out over ~6-8 hours of gameplay, by which time the clues are kind of sitting there in your mind, but not necessarily obvious. Try shoehorning the key lines and clues into a 2 hour movie and it's going to be really blatant - hell, the dialogue would be saturated with it.
I don't think the dialogue would have to feel overly saturated with "would you kindlies". If the protaganist was perfoming actions that seemed logical for the most part and only engaged in more dangerous actions with a "would you kindly..." it would make sense when the twist comes up.
It's a poor comparison; but the "nice coat" line got a big laugh in Batman Begins and was only stated three times. The movie doesn't have to be peppered w/ "would you kindly" left and right for the audience to get the gist of it.
I'd say you'd need, at max, 3 or 4 "would you kindlies." One for the short-wave radio, one for "WOULD YOU KINDLY KILL THAT SON OF A BITCH," and one or two more sprinkled in between the two.
So considering other video-game to movie translations this should be about "Big daddy" a cyborg cop in the year 2020, who fights crime with "Little sister" the AI that lives inside his hover ferrari?
I'm heading to Fandango, baby...opening day!
I've got a great promotional idea for this movie: free puppy with every ticket.
(That's a terrible thing to say, and I should be ashamed.)
Because it relied mainly upon gaming conventions and mechanics to make sense.
You literally couldnt progress in the game unless you picked up the radio, or did this or turned that.
In a movie, where you are not constrained by these mechanics, it would look weird for the Jack character to be following orders so fanatically.
Of course they could work around it a little, but it would be much more obvious what was going on.
In the game, Atlas says to do this, and whether you want to or not you have to, because the game is forcing you to. If you take away these game mechanics then there is a less strong twist.
Not to mention that a big reason the twist was done so well is that it played out over ~6-8 hours of gameplay, by which time the clues are kind of sitting there in your mind, but not necessarily obvious. Try shoehorning the key lines and clues into a 2 hour movie and it's going to be really blatant - hell, the dialogue would be saturated with it.
I don't think the dialogue would have to feel overly saturated with "would you kindlies". If the protaganist was perfoming actions that seemed logical for the most part and only engaged in more dangerous actions with a "would you kindly..." it would make sense when the twist comes up.
It's a poor comparison; but the "nice coat" line got a big laugh in Batman Begins and was only stated three times. The movie doesn't have to be peppered w/ "would you kindly" left and right for the audience to get the gist of it.
The only way to do this well is to completely reimagine the stories mechanics. Also it will probably be a lengthy film.
Though I still think you could make a better movie by focusing on McClintock.
Was her ultimate fate ever even revealed?
The last log I got of her was
of her reporting on the end of a raid, nearly catching Atlas using his fontaine-voice.
It would leave a fair amount open to explore if so.
I'm also wondering- can/will the movie be a prequel (showing the fall of Rapture) if such is already (supposedly) the subject of Bioshock 2?
His switch at the end of the diary from brogue to awful Fontaine-voice when he says, "Let me just... turn this orf..." implies that he kills her, fearing that she heard him.
yeah, TVsFrank implied that the dead body was hers.
anyway, why are you all so shocked Armin Shimmerman was Andrew Ryan? I mean, yeah, he was Quark and Snyder, but was this a big deal back when the game came out? I found out about it, and went "eh. alright"
Because it relied mainly upon gaming conventions and mechanics to make sense.
You literally couldnt progress in the game unless you picked up the radio, or did this or turned that.
In a movie, where you are not constrained by these mechanics, it would look weird for the Jack character to be following orders so fanatically.
Of course they could work around it a little, but it would be much more obvious what was going on.
In the game, Atlas says to do this, and whether you want to or not you have to, because the game is forcing you to. If you take away these game mechanics then there is a less strong twist.
I think that's one thing that annoyed me about the game. If after that point, the game really opened up and became non-linear, giving you actual choices (more than just the harvest / save thing), then I think it would have been a really brilliant representation of that. That's what I was expecting when the command no longer worked, that all of a sudden the gameworld would open up and BE less linear to represent the fact that you no longer functioned with mental conditioning that only allowed you to see one path, that you could now see the possibilities for action in this world.
If they had done that, I feel the post-reveal gameplay could have really made the game.
There should propably be a spoiler warning in the thread title. I know we can't spoil the movie, but I guess some poor souls hasn't played Bioshock yet.
I wonder how they will treat the dead smugglers and their bibles.
There should propably be a spoiler warning in the thread title. I know we can't spoil the movie, but I guess some poor souls hasn't played Bioshock yet.
I wonder how they will treat the dead smugglers and their bibles.
It could be an awesome film, and people would still find something to piss and moan about.
Bioshock is the PROOF that games can tell a story just as well as movies.
Making a movie out of it DEFEATS the purpose.
But it has not yet shown that it can properly integrate the storytelling with the gameplay in the least bit. What, exactly, did the big reveal change? Nothing. You still followed a linear path, driven by developer-directed objectives, following designated parameters. Your new 'freedom' meant nothing.
It could be an awesome film, and people would still find something to piss and moan about.
Bioshock is the PROOF that games can tell a story just as well as movies.
Making a movie out of it DEFEATS the purpose.
But it has not yet shown that it can properly integrate the storytelling with the gameplay in the least bit. What, exactly, did the big reveal change? Nothing. You still followed a linear path, driven by developer-directed objectives, following designated parameters. Your new 'freedom' meant nothing.
I respectfully disagree.
The great irony of the game is that in reality there is no free will either.
It could be an awesome film, and people would still find something to piss and moan about.
Bioshock is the PROOF that games can tell a story just as well as movies.
Making a movie out of it DEFEATS the purpose.
Subjective's can't be held as proofs. :P
I thought the basic plot of Bioshock was OK, but not brilliant (especially the harvesting aspect and how that played out with the ending). On the other hand I felt that the dialogue and voice acting were really good and made up for that. Also, as an actual attempt to deconstruct Atlas Shrugged I felt it didn't do too good a job, but then that's probably me looking for something that the game wasn't aiming for. I suspect Atlas Shrugged was meant to be the theme but not necessarily analysed as such, but I guess I'll never really know.
As for a film, could be good, just depends on the script and acting and stuff. If nothing else, the underwater 1940's styled utopia is a pretty evocative setting and could easily make for an good film if used well.
It could be an awesome film, and people would still find something to piss and moan about.
Bioshock is the PROOF that games can tell a story just as well as movies.
Making a movie out of it DEFEATS the purpose.
But it has not yet shown that it can properly integrate the storytelling with the gameplay in the least bit. What, exactly, did the big reveal change? Nothing. You still followed a linear path, driven by developer-directed objectives, following designated parameters. Your new 'freedom' meant nothing.
I respectfully disagree.
The great irony of the game is that in reality there is no free will either.
As proven by science.
Except that the game does not in any way attempt to portray this.
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redhaloAlso a Professional AlcoholicRegistered Userregular
It could be an awesome film, and people would still find something to piss and moan about.
Bioshock is the PROOF that games can tell a story just as well as movies.
Making a movie out of it DEFEATS the purpose.
I disagree. I think the story being so good warrants wanting to share it with as many people as possible; those who wouldn't touch video games because they believe that they can't have as good or better of a story than a movie.
It could be an awesome film, and people would still find something to piss and moan about.
Bioshock is the PROOF that games can tell a story just as well as movies.
Making a movie out of it DEFEATS the purpose.
I disagree. I think the story being so good warrants wanting to share it with as many people as possible; those who wouldn't touch video games because they believe that they can't have as good or better of a story than a movie.
The story is tied to the medium, though, and it isimpossible to translate it properly to a passive medium, since it is all about choice and action.
I'd rather see it released on PS3 and other consoles, in order to reach a wider audience, than castrated and stuck up on the silver screen.
It could be an awesome film, and people would still find something to piss and moan about.
Bioshock is the PROOF that games can tell a story just as well as movies.
Making a movie out of it DEFEATS the purpose.
But it has not yet shown that it can properly integrate the storytelling with the gameplay in the least bit. What, exactly, did the big reveal change? Nothing. You still followed a linear path, driven by developer-directed objectives, following designated parameters. Your new 'freedom' meant nothing.
I respectfully disagree.
The great irony of the game is that in reality there is no free will either.
As proven by science.
Except that the game does not in any way attempt to portray this.
No, it DOES portray it, it just doesn't beat you over the head with it.
Aside from the fact that you are, in essence, stuck on a predetermined path with no way to avoid doing it, and all you can really do is make a few superficial choices along the path (something which applies to practically every linear videogame ever made), how does Bioshock portray it?
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Platinum FC: 2880 3245 5111
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Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
edited May 2008
Bioshock uses genre conventions as a storytelling device
It wouldn't work well as a movie because most moviegoers wouldn't be familiar with them
Plus, the twist works because you have been in some level of control throughout the game and then it's suddenly taken away from you. That sense of being manipulated wouldn't make the transition from game to movie very well, if at all
Bioshock uses genre conventions as a storytelling device
It wouldn't work well as a movie because most moviegoers wouldn't be familiar with them
Plus, the twist works because you have been in some level of control throughout the game and then it's suddenly taken away from you. That sense of being manipulated wouldn't make the transition from game to movie very well, if at all
Well that's why you hire writers and you don't film the story word for word exactly. It's called adaptation. I can't see any real reason that this can transcibe into film.
Bioshock uses genre conventions as a storytelling device
It wouldn't work well as a movie because most moviegoers wouldn't be familiar with them
Plus, the twist works because you have been in some level of control throughout the game and then it's suddenly taken away from you. That sense of being manipulated wouldn't make the transition from game to movie very well, if at all
Well that's why you hire writers and you don't film the story word for word exactly. It's called adaptation. I can't see any real reason that this can transcibe into film.
Well I suppose it would have to be more about action movie tropes rather than first person shooter conventions then, if we're going to take advantage of the medium the same way the game did
But I still don't see how the twist is going to have the same power it did in the game. I mean, it worked so well because you had been playing the game up to that point and then when you lost control for the cutscene it made perfect sense in the story of the game
Bioshock uses genre conventions as a storytelling device
It wouldn't work well as a movie because most moviegoers wouldn't be familiar with them
Plus, the twist works because you have been in some level of control throughout the game and then it's suddenly taken away from you. That sense of being manipulated wouldn't make the transition from game to movie very well, if at all
Well that's why you hire writers and you don't film the story word for word exactly. It's called adaptation. I can't see any real reason that this can transcibe into film.
Well I suppose it would have to be more about action movie tropes rather than first person shooter conventions then, if we're going to take advantage of the medium the same way the game did
But I still don't see how the twist is going to have the same power it did in the game. I mean, it worked so well because you had been playing the game up to that point and then when you lost control for the cutscene it made perfect sense in the story of the game
What your describing is just a matter of filming it in third person rather than first. It could be said that any movie would have a bigger impact if we could experiance it in first person over the course of 40 hours or whatever. That isn't to say that the plot wouldn't work just becuase it's been scaled down to watching someone else experiance it over 2 hours.
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You have to be kidding me
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
I know, i found that really shocking after checking IMDB.
But now i know, he does sound like him.
Maybe this is yet another element of the game.
"But I don't want the game to be made into a movie..."
"You don't have a choice"
What?
IMDB confirms this, but.. WHAT THE HOLY HELL?
MIND = BLOWN
Because it relied mainly upon gaming conventions and mechanics to make sense.
You literally couldnt progress in the game unless you picked up the radio, or did this or turned that.
In a movie, where you are not constrained by these mechanics, it would look weird for the Jack character to be following orders so fanatically.
Of course they could work around it a little, but it would be much more obvious what was going on.
In the game, Atlas says to do this, and whether you want to or not you have to, because the game is forcing you to. If you take away these game mechanics then there is a less strong twist.
My work here is done
Not to mention that a big reason the twist was done so well is that it played out over ~6-8 hours of gameplay, by which time the clues are kind of sitting there in your mind, but not necessarily obvious. Try shoehorning the key lines and clues into a 2 hour movie and it's going to be really blatant - hell, the dialogue would be saturated with it.
I don't think the dialogue would have to feel overly saturated with "would you kindlies". If the protaganist was perfoming actions that seemed logical for the most part and only engaged in more dangerous actions with a "would you kindly..." it would make sense when the twist comes up.
It's a poor comparison; but the "nice coat" line got a big laugh in Batman Begins and was only stated three times. The movie doesn't have to be peppered w/ "would you kindly" left and right for the audience to get the gist of it.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
I'm heading to Fandango, baby...opening day!
I've got a great promotional idea for this movie: free puppy with every ticket.
(That's a terrible thing to say, and I should be ashamed.)
IOS Game Center ID: Isotope-X
http://www.audioentropy.com/
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The only way to do this well is to completely reimagine the stories mechanics. Also it will probably be a lengthy film.
Hey, I have a blog! (Actually being updated again!)
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Was her ultimate fate ever even revealed?
The last log I got of her was
It would leave a fair amount open to explore if so.
I'm also wondering- can/will the movie be a prequel (showing the fall of Rapture) if such is already (supposedly) the subject of Bioshock 2?
Go back and listen to it in the diary logs!
anyway, why are you all so shocked Armin Shimmerman was Andrew Ryan? I mean, yeah, he was Quark and Snyder, but was this a big deal back when the game came out? I found out about it, and went "eh. alright"
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I think that's one thing that annoyed me about the game. If after that point, the game really opened up and became non-linear, giving you actual choices (more than just the harvest / save thing), then I think it would have been a really brilliant representation of that. That's what I was expecting when the command no longer worked, that all of a sudden the gameworld would open up and BE less linear to represent the fact that you no longer functioned with mental conditioning that only allowed you to see one path, that you could now see the possibilities for action in this world.
If they had done that, I feel the post-reveal gameplay could have really made the game.
I wonder how they will treat the dead smugglers and their bibles.
If I'm guessing right, as persecuted heroes.
Bioshock is the PROOF that games can tell a story just as well as movies.
Making a movie out of it DEFEATS the purpose.
But it has not yet shown that it can properly integrate the storytelling with the gameplay in the least bit. What, exactly, did the big reveal change? Nothing. You still followed a linear path, driven by developer-directed objectives, following designated parameters. Your new 'freedom' meant nothing.
Platinum FC: 2880 3245 5111
Will Smith as Jack. Suri Cruise as Little Sisters. Paris Hilton makes a cameo as a splicer. It goes on.
I respectfully disagree.
The great irony of the game is that in reality there is no free will either.
As proven by science.
Subjective's can't be held as proofs. :P
I thought the basic plot of Bioshock was OK, but not brilliant (especially the harvesting aspect and how that played out with the ending). On the other hand I felt that the dialogue and voice acting were really good and made up for that. Also, as an actual attempt to deconstruct Atlas Shrugged I felt it didn't do too good a job, but then that's probably me looking for something that the game wasn't aiming for. I suspect Atlas Shrugged was meant to be the theme but not necessarily analysed as such, but I guess I'll never really know.
As for a film, could be good, just depends on the script and acting and stuff. If nothing else, the underwater 1940's styled utopia is a pretty evocative setting and could easily make for an good film if used well.
Except that the game does not in any way attempt to portray this.
Platinum FC: 2880 3245 5111
I disagree. I think the story being so good warrants wanting to share it with as many people as possible; those who wouldn't touch video games because they believe that they can't have as good or better of a story than a movie.
The story is tied to the medium, though, and it isimpossible to translate it properly to a passive medium, since it is all about choice and action.
I'd rather see it released on PS3 and other consoles, in order to reach a wider audience, than castrated and stuck up on the silver screen.
No, it DOES portray it, it just doesn't beat you over the head with it.
Platinum FC: 2880 3245 5111
It wouldn't work well as a movie because most moviegoers wouldn't be familiar with them
Plus, the twist works because you have been in some level of control throughout the game and then it's suddenly taken away from you. That sense of being manipulated wouldn't make the transition from game to movie very well, if at all
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
Well that's why you hire writers and you don't film the story word for word exactly. It's called adaptation. I can't see any real reason that this can transcibe into film.
Well I suppose it would have to be more about action movie tropes rather than first person shooter conventions then, if we're going to take advantage of the medium the same way the game did
But I still don't see how the twist is going to have the same power it did in the game. I mean, it worked so well because you had been playing the game up to that point and then when you lost control for the cutscene it made perfect sense in the story of the game
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
What your describing is just a matter of filming it in third person rather than first. It could be said that any movie would have a bigger impact if we could experiance it in first person over the course of 40 hours or whatever. That isn't to say that the plot wouldn't work just becuase it's been scaled down to watching someone else experiance it over 2 hours.