If you can read all of that and believe that was the attitude to take to get your point across, then I'm barking up the wrong tree. I don't hate you Teh Spectre, I just wish you didn't resort to personal attacks.
1) PMs
2) People resort to personal attacks in D&D all the time. It's cool as long as they're making an actual argument along with it.
3) Now you've got me doing it, take this to PMs, goddammit!
I was reading the rules thread, and while what he was doing isn't strictly against the rules, it is frowned upon. I'm not going to send a pm because I don't care what he says to me personally. I don't think he should argue using the logical fallacies he did, but you are correct, it is his right to do so.
Another thing you should remember is that while this game is in D&D, it is not a D&D thread, per se. It's here because this community wants to and enjoys playing the game, but it's not really a debate or discussion, so while the thread does need to adhere to the rules of the subforum, you're not going to get the same behaviour within the game. Especially during the game, when people need to act certain ways to cause certain reactions. And, because it may be impossible to determine why someone is acting the way they are while the game is playing, expecting the unspoken rules/softer rules to be enforced as much or as "well" as in, say, the Customer's Always Right thread, is not really correct.
Not to mention, we don't take kahndly to meta-modding 'round here.
Also, will someone please tell me what I was doing that was so suspicious?
I'll check my spreadsheets and see what notes I made about you, but mostly you just seemed off to me. How did I off you again?
He was arrowed.
Actually he wasn't, he was foxed. I had him killed for several reasons, it was mostly a combination of small things. A post here and there that seemed off somehow, jumping on and off bandwagons at the exact right time, and I think someone in my network mentioned that for a Phalla regular your play style seemed different.
I might be getting you confused with someone else though.
People call people dumb all the time in Phalla. It's best to ignore it.
K, it's cool, though the post-game discussion is a dumb place to cause drama like that is what I'm saying. But yeah, I'll ignore it now.
I was genuinely curious about why such a decision is best for the village. I guess I can see the argument, but I still disagree.
Yeah, that's cool. It's really a playstyle thing, and may not always be appropriate.
As for the drama, I really doubt Frosteey's comment was to be drama-inducing at all--that's really just how he rolls. A lot of the game of Phalla is learning how people "are" and when they are acting "off" and small jibes get passed around quite frequently.
Also, will someone please tell me what I was doing that was so suspicious?
I'll check my spreadsheets and see what notes I made about you, but mostly you just seemed off to me. How did I off you again?
He was arrowed.
Actually he wasn't, he was foxed. I had him killed for several reasons, it was mostly a combination of small things. A post here and there that seemed off somehow, jumping on and off bandwagons at the exact right time, and I think someone in my network mentioned that for a Phalla regular your play style seemed different.
I might be getting you confused with someone else though.
See, those are all general comments, and I'm pretty sure he's looking for specific examples. What seemed off about the post here or there? I'm not vh, but I'm curious, and I hate when people answer this sort of request in this sort of way--you're not really helping. :P
LaOs on
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GoslingLooking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, ProbablyWatertown, WIRegistered Userregular
edited June 2008
So... I gotta get an evil role soon. I'm getting to be predictable in my innocence.
Gosling on
I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
Also, will someone please tell me what I was doing that was so suspicious?
I'll check my spreadsheets and see what notes I made about you, but mostly you just seemed off to me. How did I off you again?
He was arrowed.
Actually he wasn't, he was foxed. I had him killed for several reasons, it was mostly a combination of small things. A post here and there that seemed off somehow, jumping on and off bandwagons at the exact right time, and I think someone in my network mentioned that for a Phalla regular your play style seemed different.
I might be getting you confused with someone else though.
See, those are all general comments, and I'm pretty sure he's looking for specific examples. What seemed off about the post here or there? I'm not vh, but I'm curious, and I hate when people answer this sort of request in this sort of way--you're not really helping. :P
I'll look back, but I just deleted all my PM's and my spreadsheet changed from day to day, so I don't remember much.
My mindset was mostly "take a target out then move on." Focus entirely on the suspect of the day and screw the next.
Thetheroo on
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Hi I'm Vee!Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C ERegistered Userregular
Also, will someone please tell me what I was doing that was so suspicious?
I'll check my spreadsheets and see what notes I made about you, but mostly you just seemed off to me. How did I off you again?
He was arrowed.
Actually he wasn't, he was foxed. I had him killed for several reasons, it was mostly a combination of small things. A post here and there that seemed off somehow, jumping on and off bandwagons at the exact right time, and I think someone in my network mentioned that for a Phalla regular your play style seemed different.
I might be getting you confused with someone else though.
See, those are all general comments, and I'm pretty sure he's looking for specific examples. What seemed off about the post here or there? I'm not vh, but I'm curious, and I hate when people answer this sort of request in this sort of way--you're not really helping. :P
Nah, it's okay. He had a lot of suspects over the course of the game, I can't expect him to remember the single greatest thing that tipped him off about me.
It's a little annoying, though, because the last few times I've been a bad guy, a couple people have been like "It was so obvious man" leaving me to wonder what the hell I'm doing wrong. I'll figure it out eventually, I guess.
People call people dumb all the time in Phalla. It's best to ignore it.
K, it's cool, though the post-game discussion is a dumb place to cause drama like that is what I'm saying. But yeah, I'll ignore it now.
I was genuinely curious about why such a decision is best for the village. I guess I can see the argument, but I still disagree.
Yeah, that's cool. It's really a playstyle thing, and may not always be appropriate.
As for the drama, I really doubt Frosteey's comment was to be drama-inducing at all--that's really just how he rolls. A lot of the game of Phalla is learning how people "are" and when they are acting "off" and small jibes get passed around quite frequently.
Yeah, which is weird. Because I know that Elki was playing how he always plays, but was sure he was evil anyway. I honestly have no idea what tipped me off to that one.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
As he was going down yeah, but before that there was like two posts a day. It seemed like he was playing the Elki role from the Phalla Phalla (which by the way, I read in my depression after Detroit's game 3 loss in the Stanley Cup Finals, tremendous job VH).
EDIT: I guess he posted 44 times, that is rather a lot for him.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
You're expressing an opinion about his behavior that is specific to TehSpectre. There is no reason to discuss that publically, except to call him out in front of other people. Any concerns you have about what he said or did can be just as easily addressed via PMs; there is no advantage to airing them out in a public thread, except the satisfaction of calling him out in public.
I'm mildly forgiving of this, considering I've done it myself a few times, but I've almost always realized my mistake and apologized via PM. Because frankly, it's nobody's business but mine and the person's with whom I have the issue.
If you're done with this argument, fine. But if you have concerns that you feel still haven't been addressed, I would like to respectfully ask that you continue that discussion via PMs with TehSpectre.
I misread the rules thread and thought the logical fallacies were AGAINST the rules, not just frowned upon, so I apologize for that mistake on my part. As to the calling out part, I felt the greivance was an act against the community, not myself, and by multiple parties in multiple phallas, hence my putting it in the thread, not a pm. If I'm ever personally offended by a single individual, I will definitely keep it in pms as you've suggested.
Another thing you should remember is that while this game is in D&D, it is not a D&D thread, per se. It's here because this community wants to and enjoys playing the game, but it's not really a debate or discussion, so while the thread does need to adhere to the rules of the subforum, you're not going to get the same behaviour within the game. Especially during the game, when people need to act certain ways to cause certain reactions. And, because it may be impossible to determine why someone is acting the way they are while the game is playing, expecting the unspoken rules/softer rules to be enforced as much or as "well" as in, say, the Customer's Always Right thread, is not really correct.
This I didn't know, I figured we would fall under D&D customs of debate. I honestly view all phallas as mostly games of reasoned debate, and consequently bristle at logical fallacies being used in place of arguments. Thank you for correcting me on this misconception.
Not to mention, we don't take kahndly to meta-modding 'round here.
I can appreciate this sentiment. I've never been too concerned with rule breakers, I've used the report button twice, and only for nsfw videos posted without a nsfw tag. I just really enjoy these games, and was treated with a great deal of respect and kindness in my first game. I want other newbies to have a similar first experience.
As he was going down yeah, but before that there was like two posts a day. It seemed like he was playing the Elki role from the Phalla Phalla (which by the way, I read in my depression after Detroit's game 3 loss in the Stanley Cup Finals, tremendous job VH).
EDIT: I guess he posted 44 times, that is rather a lot for him.
In eight days, though? Counting the rampup in posts near the end, that seems about close to the description in the Phalla Phalla of four per day, right?
You're expressing an opinion about his behavior that is specific to TehSpectre. There is no reason to discuss that publically, except to call him out in front of other people. Any concerns you have about what he said or did can be just as easily addressed via PMs; there is no advantage to airing them out in a public thread, except the satisfaction of calling him out in public.
I'm mildly forgiving of this, considering I've done it myself a few times, but I've almost always realized my mistake and apologized via PM. Because frankly, it's nobody's business but mine and the person's with whom I have the issue.
If you're done with this argument, fine. But if you have concerns that you feel still haven't been addressed, I would like to respectfully ask that you continue that discussion via PMs with TehSpectre.
I misread the rules thread and thought the logical fallacies were AGAINST the rules, not just frowned upon, so I apologize for that mistake on my part. As to the calling out part, I felt the greivance was an act against the community, not myself, and by multiple parties in multiple phallas, hence my putting it in the thread, not a pm. If I'm ever personally offended by a single individual, I will definitely keep it in pms as you've suggested.
Another thing you should remember is that while this game is in D&D, it is not a D&D thread, per se. It's here because this community wants to and enjoys playing the game, but it's not really a debate or discussion, so while the thread does need to adhere to the rules of the subforum, you're not going to get the same behaviour within the game. Especially during the game, when people need to act certain ways to cause certain reactions. And, because it may be impossible to determine why someone is acting the way they are while the game is playing, expecting the unspoken rules/softer rules to be enforced as much or as "well" as in, say, the Customer's Always Right thread, is not really correct.
This I didn't know, I figured we would fall under D&D customs of debate. I honestly view all phallas as mostly games of reasoned debate, and consequently bristle at logical fallacies being used in place of arguments. Thank you for correcting me on this misconception.
Not to mention, we don't take kahndly to meta-modding 'round here.
I can appreciate this sentiment. I've never been too concerned with rule breakers, I've used the report button twice, and only for nsfw videos posted without a nsfw tag. I just really enjoy these games, and was treated with a great deal of respect and kindness in my first game. I want other newbies to have a similar first experience.
I can understand the bristling at the logical phallacies, personal attacks, and just stupid moves that may happen during the course of a Phalla game, but you really, really need to get over that and ignore it when playing Phalla because pretty much anything goes in the game of deception... you're trying to peg players as good or evil by their actions and how their actions differ from game to game, and many people are going to do things simply to throw people off their trail, spark some sort of reaction, or just mess with people for no reason. It's anything goes, and everything usually does.
As he was going down yeah, but before that there was like two posts a day. It seemed like he was playing the Elki role from the Phalla Phalla (which by the way, I read in my depression after Detroit's game 3 loss in the Stanley Cup Finals, tremendous job VH).
EDIT: I guess he posted 44 times, that is rather a lot for him.
In eight days, though? Counting the rampup in posts near the end, that seems about close to the description in the Phalla Phalla of four per day, right?
He died night five. One ghost post and I think he had one or two postgame. That's eight posts a day on average. Way more than I thought he had.
EDIT: I Just counted, 12 in the run up to his death it looks like. So he was on a reasonable Elki pace before he died, but still a little more chatty than usual. It was like six posts a day.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
That being said, I do want to commend you on your handling of the network. If we were still doing the phalla awards, I'd nominate you for "Most Veteran Play by a New Player", because you were the major contributor to the village's victory in this game.
This. Great work, thetheroo. It's clear you did a good job running the network once you took over, even to those of us that weren't in it.
---
Also, I also turned against the Elki bandwagon after I realized that I post even less than he does. This is odd because I spend lots of time lurking in this forum. The primary thread is always interesting, especially to a Canadian.
As he was going down yeah, but before that there was like two posts a day. It seemed like he was playing the Elki role from the Phalla Phalla (which by the way, I read in my depression after Detroit's game 3 loss in the Stanley Cup Finals, tremendous job VH).
EDIT: I guess he posted 44 times, that is rather a lot for him.
In eight days, though? Counting the rampup in posts near the end, that seems about close to the description in the Phalla Phalla of four per day, right?
He died night five. One ghost post and I think he had one or two postgame. That's eight posts a day on average. Way more than I thought he had.
Didn't realise he had been dead so long--my bad. Still, I'm sure the last day he was alive throws off the average a lot, but yea, it's a bit high I guess.
VH I marked you as a suspected baddie early in the game because of the things you weren't saying. Your comments seemed to be in the realm of just enough to get by. For a veteran player I was expecting more input and when I noted that your input only came at opportune times I figured something could have been up.
Edit: Wow I posted 154 times. Remind me not to do that.
On a slightly more serious note, I loved playing this game:
1. I assumed everyone would be welcoming. You were.
2. It did not, at any point, feel like a clique.
3. It got a bit scary at times, cos people appeared very cross at each other, but I just thought that was part of the gameplaying.
4. I was sad when I was killed, cos I wasn't part of the game any more. I wouldn't have felt like that if 1 and 2 weren't true.
5. Different time zones meant it was a bit hard, cos you (apart from Bwanie) were all asleep in the middle of my day, and I was asleep 2-3 hours before end of voting. Ah, well.
Has this ever been played at PAX? Would it be viable? (There's an Assassins game going to happen).
Thank you guys, it was fun.
LewieP's Mummy on
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I just really enjoy these games, and was treated with a great deal of respect and kindness in my first game. I want other newbies to have a similar first experience.
Just drop it dude. Especially when I have only been anything but mean to the new players.
Edit: Really, you act as if this community has been going around and punching new players in the face. I haven't ever seen that happen. Not by me, and not by any other vet around these, or CF's parts.
VH you became suspicious to me due to my perception of your lower than normal participation level.
I have no idea if you actually posted more or less than usual, but it just seemed as though you were not as active as I've seen you in the past.
That was a combination of me actually being busy during the week and the fact that I tend not to participate as much when I'm a mere villager, so I was going for that.
Whatever, next time I won't care and just get in any argument I want. :P
VH you became suspicious to me due to my perception of your lower than normal participation level.
I have no idea if you actually posted more or less than usual, but it just seemed as though you were not as active as I've seen you in the past.
That was a combination of me actually being busy during the week and the fact that I tend not to participate as much when I'm a mere villager, so I was going for that.
Whatever, next time I won't care and just get in any argument I want. :P
Well I was making sure that I tried to post as much as I had in other games I'd played in
I mean I'm paranoid so I always assume people keep track of that meta shit
I just really enjoy these games, and was treated with a great deal of respect and kindness in my first game. I want other newbies to have a similar first experience.
Just drop it dude. Especially when I have only been anything but mean to the new players.
Edit: Really, you act as if this community has been going around and punching new players in the face. I haven't ever seen that happen. Not by me, and not by any other vet around these, or CF's parts.
I don't find "I'm only treating players with experience poorly, not new players. How could that possibly effect new players perception of how the game is played?" to be compelling. In all the phallas I've played I've never seen play as aggresive as in this one, but as LaOs has said, that is apparently an acceptable part of the game, so the issue is over. My personal beliefs are trumped by the communities.
Posts
K, it's cool, though the post-game discussion is a dumb place to cause drama like that is what I'm saying. But yeah, I'll ignore it now.
I was genuinely curious about why such a decision is best for the village. I guess I can see the argument, but I still disagree.
Not to mention, we don't take kahndly to meta-modding 'round here.
Actually he wasn't, he was foxed. I had him killed for several reasons, it was mostly a combination of small things. A post here and there that seemed off somehow, jumping on and off bandwagons at the exact right time, and I think someone in my network mentioned that for a Phalla regular your play style seemed different.
I might be getting you confused with someone else though.
Yeah, that's cool. It's really a playstyle thing, and may not always be appropriate.
As for the drama, I really doubt Frosteey's comment was to be drama-inducing at all--that's really just how he rolls. A lot of the game of Phalla is learning how people "are" and when they are acting "off" and small jibes get passed around quite frequently.
See, those are all general comments, and I'm pretty sure he's looking for specific examples. What seemed off about the post here or there? I'm not vh, but I'm curious, and I hate when people answer this sort of request in this sort of way--you're not really helping. :P
I'll look back, but I just deleted all my PM's and my spreadsheet changed from day to day, so I don't remember much.
My mindset was mostly "take a target out then move on." Focus entirely on the suspect of the day and screw the next.
Nah, it's okay. He had a lot of suspects over the course of the game, I can't expect him to remember the single greatest thing that tipped him off about me.
It's a little annoying, though, because the last few times I've been a bad guy, a couple people have been like "It was so obvious man" leaving me to wonder what the hell I'm doing wrong. I'll figure it out eventually, I guess.
Yeah, which is weird. Because I know that Elki was playing how he always plays, but was sure he was evil anyway. I honestly have no idea what tipped me off to that one.
As he was going down yeah, but before that there was like two posts a day. It seemed like he was playing the Elki role from the Phalla Phalla (which by the way, I read in my depression after Detroit's game 3 loss in the Stanley Cup Finals, tremendous job VH).
EDIT: I guess he posted 44 times, that is rather a lot for him.
"But Master Yoda told me to be mindful of the future!"
"Yes, but not at the expense of the present."
Oh. Oh! Ha. Spot on. Good work.
I misread the rules thread and thought the logical fallacies were AGAINST the rules, not just frowned upon, so I apologize for that mistake on my part. As to the calling out part, I felt the greivance was an act against the community, not myself, and by multiple parties in multiple phallas, hence my putting it in the thread, not a pm. If I'm ever personally offended by a single individual, I will definitely keep it in pms as you've suggested.
This I didn't know, I figured we would fall under D&D customs of debate. I honestly view all phallas as mostly games of reasoned debate, and consequently bristle at logical fallacies being used in place of arguments. Thank you for correcting me on this misconception.
I can appreciate this sentiment. I've never been too concerned with rule breakers, I've used the report button twice, and only for nsfw videos posted without a nsfw tag. I just really enjoy these games, and was treated with a great deal of respect and kindness in my first game. I want other newbies to have a similar first experience.
In eight days, though? Counting the rampup in posts near the end, that seems about close to the description in the Phalla Phalla of four per day, right?
I can understand the bristling at the logical phallacies, personal attacks, and just stupid moves that may happen during the course of a Phalla game, but you really, really need to get over that and ignore it when playing Phalla because pretty much anything goes in the game of deception... you're trying to peg players as good or evil by their actions and how their actions differ from game to game, and many people are going to do things simply to throw people off their trail, spark some sort of reaction, or just mess with people for no reason. It's anything goes, and everything usually does.
He died night five. One ghost post and I think he had one or two postgame. That's eight posts a day on average. Way more than I thought he had.
EDIT: I Just counted, 12 in the run up to his death it looks like. So he was on a reasonable Elki pace before he died, but still a little more chatty than usual. It was like six posts a day.
This. Great work, thetheroo. It's clear you did a good job running the network once you took over, even to those of us that weren't in it.
---
Also, I also turned against the Elki bandwagon after I realized that I post even less than he does. This is odd because I spend lots of time lurking in this forum. The primary thread is always interesting, especially to a Canadian.
Didn't realise he had been dead so long--my bad. Still, I'm sure the last day he was alive throws off the average a lot, but yea, it's a bit high I guess.
[Edit]
I see your edit. Hah. Funny.
Edit: Wow I posted 154 times. Remind me not to do that.
Even I got this!
On a slightly more serious note, I loved playing this game:
1. I assumed everyone would be welcoming. You were.
2. It did not, at any point, feel like a clique.
3. It got a bit scary at times, cos people appeared very cross at each other, but I just thought that was part of the gameplaying.
4. I was sad when I was killed, cos I wasn't part of the game any more. I wouldn't have felt like that if 1 and 2 weren't true.
5. Different time zones meant it was a bit hard, cos you (apart from Bwanie) were all asleep in the middle of my day, and I was asleep 2-3 hours before end of voting. Ah, well.
Has this ever been played at PAX? Would it be viable? (There's an Assassins game going to happen).
Thank you guys, it was fun.
For paintings in progress, check out canvas and paints
"The power of the weirdness compels me."
Just drop it dude. Especially when I have only been anything but mean to the new players.
Edit: Really, you act as if this community has been going around and punching new players in the face. I haven't ever seen that happen. Not by me, and not by any other vet around these, or CF's parts.
I have no idea if you actually posted more or less than usual, but it just seemed as though you were not as active as I've seen you in the past.
That was a combination of me actually being busy during the week and the fact that I tend not to participate as much when I'm a mere villager, so I was going for that.
Whatever, next time I won't care and just get in any argument I want. :P
I wish I could be evil again. With all I've learned since then... I'd still have no idea how to play it.
Well I was making sure that I tried to post as much as I had in other games I'd played in
I mean I'm paranoid so I always assume people keep track of that meta shit
I don't find "I'm only treating players with experience poorly, not new players. How could that possibly effect new players perception of how the game is played?" to be compelling. In all the phallas I've played I've never seen play as aggresive as in this one, but as LaOs has said, that is apparently an acceptable part of the game, so the issue is over. My personal beliefs are trumped by the communities.
Aggressive
Trust me you'll be forgetting it as soon as you finish this sentence.
The one where B:L went crazy? I want to say it had something to do with space. . .maybe?
EDIT: I think the most aggressive performance was done by Drez in the Eternal Darkness game...
Yeah where you could choose to cheat and stuff, and choose a story choice on your little laptop thingy
Perhaps you should think on this fact.
I look forward to your next game.
Seriously, need moar phalla now!
That game needs to start officially.