So in other words, no one ever said or suggested that it wasn't coming to steam.
Yeah, after reading all that, I came to that conclusion too. I guess I read everything about how Greenhouse was different and separate from Steam and thought that meant they would only release it via one method on PC. I'm not angry, just kind of disappointed. Still, the game's fun, and I'll be sure to buy the next 3 episodes, though I'll wait until I can get them on Steam.
I just wanted to chime in to say that I am seriously bummed that this came out like this. I would have very much preferred to purchase this on Steam, mostly for the (what I consider) more customer-friendly DRM. The achievements are also a major point of added value to me, as are Steam's robust community features.
The Steam version is, to me, superior in every way for the same cost. It is unfortunate that there doesn't seem to be any hope of integrating the Green House version into Steam.
I enjoy Episode 1, and will most likely be buying the later episodes. On Steam.
OK, I'm done being mad, but I'm still pretty seriously disappointed.
So... For those of us who are Steam users, and would rather have a Steam game but already own the non-Steam version; Could we come up with a way to donate the non-steam keys to Childs-play? My aversion to buying-both-copies-when-I'm-only-going-to-use-one is greatly reduced if I feel my first $20 can still make someone happy (rather than the current feeling which would come closer to having lit a $20 bill aflame).
To the achievement haters: It's still a feature offered in one version, unavailable to users of another. Sure not everyone likes every feature, but to some of us, achievements provide a real value. Tracking them online lets us use them in a social context, seeing what our friends are up to and so forth. You don't have to feel it ads value to your experience to recognize that not everyone feels the same. (for the record, I didn't 'get' achievements either until I was playing Portal on Steam at the same time as friends were playing it on Xbox)
By the way, are you suggesting that you would like to donate your M-rated game to a children's hospital?
OK, I'm done being mad, but I'm still pretty seriously disappointed.
So... For those of us who are Steam users, and would rather have a Steam game but already own the non-Steam version; Could we come up with a way to donate the non-steam keys to Childs-play? My aversion to buying-both-copies-when-I'm-only-going-to-use-one is greatly reduced if I feel my first $20 can still make someone happy (rather than the current feeling which would come closer to having lit a $20 bill aflame).
To the achievement haters: It's still a feature offered in one version, unavailable to users of another. Sure not everyone likes every feature, but to some of us, achievements provide a real value. Tracking them online lets us use them in a social context, seeing what our friends are up to and so forth. You don't have to feel it ads value to your experience to recognize that not everyone feels the same. (for the record, I didn't 'get' achievements either until I was playing Portal on Steam at the same time as friends were playing it on Xbox)
By the way, are you suggesting that you would like to donate your M-rated game to a children's hospital?
From Children's Hospital and Regional Medical Center in Seattle Washington website:
Medical Unit's multidisciplinary team treats children newborn to age 21 with a variety of medical conditions.
Captain ElevenThe last card is a kronkRegistered Userregular
edited June 2008
If the PA or HotHead guys had come out and said "we're not releasing on Steam EVER", and then turned around and put the game on Steam, that would be a dick move. But they never said that. So why the outrage? The quotes NotACrook posted seem to indicate pretty clearly that the game was going to find its way to as many distribution channels as possible in time...
My problem is not with Steam itself. I don't care how I download the game. In fact I have it added as a non-steam game already.
I knew it would likely make it to Steam eventually. I just have an issue with a different distribution on the same platform, PC, having more features less than a month after I got the game from Greenhouse. That's the problem.
Sure achievements aren't much, and they are essentially a check list. I still find them fun challenges that add to my game experience.
Now supposedly Hothead is looking to add this functionality to the Greenhouse game versions. However today is the first I've heard they were doing it and it almost seems as if they're trying to respond to this backlash, which is good and bad. Good that they're responding, bad that they weren't able to prevent it.
I'd really like some more information from Robert or Hothead on what to expect and approximately when to expect it.
It's also beneficial to developers, because they wouldn't have to make one binary for Steam, one for Direct2Drive, one for GreenHouse, etc. Again, standards.
Is it beneficial to the developers that make a game that Valve doesn't want to put on Steam? Do you really want one source deciding what you can play and what you can't?
And to everyone complaining, obviously it was going to come out on Steam at some point. They said very upfront that they would "like to get it on as many platforms as we can." If you guys love your achievements soooooo much, maybe you should have waited.
Why would do I need the update right away if the game was working fine yesterday? Games don't suddenly stop working the moment a patch is released. Bear in mind I'm talking about single-player games here. Seriously, what's with the several-hundred megabyte updates for Half-Life 2 every couple of weeks?
I'm thinking your fingers need to be removed to prevent the spreading of Stupid from them.
Games with online features need to be all the same version in order to interact properly. Thus, forcing games to be updated before they can be played is the easiest, and most reasonable, solution to this. While you are correct in that this has very little effect on single player, aside from sending data to things like Leaderboards, it is much easier for Valve to force the update when it arrives to keep everyone on the same page.
The fact that NZ has a shitty infrastructure is no fault of Valves.
I understand the need for keeping online games up to date, what I don't see is how it's relevant to offline games. Surely the patch could just download in the background and install the update afterwards.
To put it another way - I haven't had any such issues updating non-Steam games on my PC or PS3 (well, except for Metal Gear Online, but I was hardly alone there...) on the same connection.
I'm sure NZ isn't the only place in the world where reliable high-speed internet isn't available 24-7. It just seems goofy to make games that can be scaled back to work on reasonably old machines, and then expect them to be hooked up to cutting-edge high-speed connections. Especially when such connections aren't actually necessary to play the games themselves...
Had I known I'd be getting less for my $20 I too would have waited and purchased it from Steam. I understand that you had to keep things quiet Robert, but that doesn't stop me from being disappointed right now.
I like to support PA, but I'm sure you understand how I feel cheated right now.
It is the exact same game! You did not get any less for your money! No one has been cheated!
Had I known I'd be getting less for my $20 I too would have waited and purchased it from Steam. I understand that you had to keep things quiet Robert, but that doesn't stop me from being disappointed right now.
I like to support PA, but I'm sure you understand how I feel cheated right now.
It is the exact same game! You did not get any less for your money! No one has been cheated!
It has achievements, that's what he feels cheated over.
Had I known I'd be getting less for my $20 I too would have waited and purchased it from Steam. I understand that you had to keep things quiet Robert, but that doesn't stop me from being disappointed right now.
I like to support PA, but I'm sure you understand how I feel cheated right now.
It is the exact same game! You did not get any less for your money! No one has been cheated!
It has achievements, that's what he feels cheated over.
I understand achievements aren't a big deal to most people, they are to me for whatever reasons I have.
Sure things get upgraded over time. However this upgrade came less than a month from the initial release of the game.
In response to the people saying to have just waited for Steam release, they did not mention that a version with more features would make it to PC. I had assumed the exact same product that was available from Greenhouse would eventually make it to Steam. We all know what happens when you assume things, and this case is no different.
What gets me the most is that they've now taken away my incentive to purchase Episode 2 from Greenhouse. I'd much rather get it from Greenhouse, but unless they offer me the same features, then why should I get it there?
Well, they obviously also didn't think there would be some much value placed on the achievements, just like I don't see the huge appeal either. It was more of a "oh we have this other thing we can add in as well as the system allows it"
But the benefit of the episodic content is that they can take this feedback and use it to make Ep. 2 and onward to be better experiences than Ep.1 is. They've said that quite a few times.
I certainly wouldn't expect you to have to justify why you like achievements. If you, as a gamer, value them, that's enough to put the value of a version with them above a version without. I'm sure they are taking note of that and will incorporate those thoughts into their future thinking.
Thanks for the rational discussion. It must be because you are in Virginia, so you are able to use reason. What really got me is the people who obviously didn't read the interviews or statements and just made assumptions or even more, suggested that this one thing meant that not only were they not going to buy future episodes, but they were boycotting PAX and getting their lawyers on the phone. That's what prompted the "all that because of fucking achievements? are you serious?" response from me.
What really got me is the people who obviously didn't read the interviews or statements and just made assumptions or even more, suggested that this one thing meant that not only were they not going to buy future episodes, but they were boycotting PAX and getting their lawyers on the phone. That's what prompted the "all that because of fucking achievements? are you serious?" response from me.
Yeah, that's a bit extreme. I'm more mad at myself for not thinking about this before I purchased it. It's a great game, and I'm anxiously awaiting future episodes on Steam.
I guess the thing that threw everyone off is that it was expected that the PC version would be released on Steam, not some new distribution system. When they didn't mention Steam, I assumed if I wanted to play it on the PC, this was how I was supposed to get it.
I really hope they do in fact add achievements and/or other stuff to the version offered from Greenhouse games. I just can't understand why you would offer a product with more features on another service.
If they at least offer me the same product on Steam and Greenhouse for Episode 2, then without a doubt I'll get it at Greenhouse. If Episode 2 is without achievements like Episode 1, then I'll just wait for the enhanced Steam version, which if it is similar to Episode 1 will come out a mere 3 weeks later.
Notacrook, I agree some people overreacted, that's what the internet is for. I think anyone who is a little upset or more appropriately disappointed is well within reason to be so.
They should be offering more stuff for the Greenhouse version, not less.
Had I known I'd be getting less for my $20 I too would have waited and purchased it from Steam. I understand that you had to keep things quiet Robert, but that doesn't stop me from being disappointed right now.
I like to support PA, but I'm sure you understand how I feel cheated right now.
It is the exact same game! You did not get any less for your money! No one has been cheated!
It has achievements, that's what he feels cheated over.
Achievements are those messages that pop up when you hit a milestone or complete some arbitrary "cool" objective, right? Like
"you have killed every Fruit Fucker robot in the game"
I have Steam and I already bought the Greenhouse version of RSPD Episode One.
If I didn't already have the game and wanted to buy it today I would still buy the Greenhouse version.
Steam has given me problems, none of which are Valves fault but also none which couldn't have been avoided if Steam allowed me more options (or options that worked more reliably) in how things were managed
I like like what Greenhouse is about. I like that more money goes to the developers / creators than Steam. I like how there are Mac and Linux versions on offer not just windows. I like how I don't need to load another program from which to launch the game that has to stay running in the background while I play which also might pause to update before letting me get to the game.
I appreciated being able to buy a native Linux version because keeping a windows partition and rebooting just to play games is a pain in the arse (Wine is far from perfect) Best of all was being able to show that people would actually pay for retail Linux games if that was a available option
Steam/Valve isn't interested in people who aren't windows users or those who cannot continuously reliable, fast internet connection. Which is fine but it's nice to know someone is willing to offer thing to a wider audience.
What really got me is the people who obviously didn't read the interviews or statements and just made assumptions or even more, suggested that this one thing meant that not only were they not going to buy future episodes, but they were boycotting PAX and getting their lawyers on the phone. That's what prompted the "all that because of fucking achievements? are you serious?" response from me.
Yeah, that's a bit extreme. I'm more mad at myself for not thinking about this before I purchased it. It's a great game, and I'm anxiously awaiting future episodes on Steam.
I guess the thing that threw everyone off is that it was expected that the PC version would be released on Steam, not some new distribution system. When they didn't mention Steam, I assumed if I wanted to play it on the PC, this was how I was supposed to get it.
Apparently that is the case, but I don't see how it's HotHead's fault that they continually stuck to the mantra of "as many platforms and distribution methods as possible" and people still came to an incorrect conclusion.
Is it beneficial to the developers that make a game that Valve doesn't want to put on Steam? Do you really want one source deciding what you can play and what you can't?
As said, I don't buy the argument that Steam is an any way discriminatory as to what games they put on the service other than perhaps not carrying porn games. They have a decent selection of indie titles, including some pretty obscure ones: http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=find&genre=23&cc=US
Besides, the more games they have on the service the more potential for them to make money, I can't see them turning people away.
I'm sure way more developers have chosen not put their games on Steam, rather than the other way around, because they think Steam takes too large a chunk of the sales. That may or may not be a valid criticism, I'm not in a position to know, but there's got to be significant value in a proven service with an established audience that handles all the billing and delivery (downloads) for you.
In any case, the consumer side of things still stands. I don't want to have to maintain logins and go to umpteen different download services to get all my games, do you? Having one service where I get everything is so much more beneficial for me.
In any case, the consumer side of things still stands. I don't want to have to maintain logins and go to umpteen different download services to get all my games, do you? Having one service where I get everything is so much more beneficial for me.
In that case, I would recommend purchasing the game via Steam.
Isn't it wonderful to have options available to satisfy almost any level of our insatiable demands? I submit that it is, indeed, wonderful.
People continuously lose sight of the issue. The issue is not the method of download. The issue is that the Steam version has more features than the Greenhouse version.
I also don't feel bad at all for Hothead, they brought it upon themselves by releasing an enhanced product less than 3 weeks from the initial release.
They should be offering more stuff for the Greenhouse version, not less.
Being able to play the game on a computer that does not use Windows is more than Steam offers. Being able to play the game seems like a bigger feature to me than achievements or friend list integration, auto patching or downloading from the same server as your other games.
I fully applaud them for having multiple operating system versions.
However, let's say you are a Windows user, which happens to be the majority of people who got it for PC, which version has more features? As of right now, there is no incentive for me to get episode 2 from Greenhouse.
People continuously lose sight of the issue. The issue is not the method of download. The issue is that the Steam version has more features than the Greenhouse version.
I also don't feel bad at all for Hothead, they brought it upon themselves by releasing an enhanced product less than 3 weeks from the initial release.
That's because a lot of people don't see them as that big a deal. I play games for my own entertainment, not to wave my e-peen about for people on my friends list or whatever.
I don't feel bad for Hothead either, because this move will still translate into more sales, not less.
I fully applaud them for having multiple operating system versions.
However, let's say you are a Windows user, which happens to be the majority of people who got it for PC, which version has more features? As of right now, there is no incentive for me to get episode 2 from Greenhouse.
It has ONE more feature that many people don't even care about.
Has Hothead announced that there will definitely be no achievements in the Greenhouse version of episode 2? Or are you just threatening to boycott a service that didn't do things 100% perfect on its first try?
I think this thread proves that a lot of people do think achievements are a big deal, and it isn't about epeen waving. Plenty don't think they're a big deal as well.
Also I never said I was going to boycott Greenhouse and they claim to be adding these achievements at some undetermined date. If you actually read what I've said, I've said I want to get it from Greenhouse, I just want the same features if I do.
Why would I buy a game from one place that sells a version with less features for the same price. Not boycotting anything, just making smart purchases.
You continue to talk around the fact the Greenhouse product is different, not inferior, than the Steam product. Most notably the multi-platform support.
At the time of purchase you decided the Greenhouse product was worth $20. You still own the product you deemed worth $20. A similar product with slightly different features existing on a different platform is not even relevant to the discussion.
The fact HotHead is listening to player feedback, and adding features to the product we purchased, at no addition cost to us, is excellent, and should be commended.
If you want to commend them, then do it, and stop your petty bitching and moaning.
I just view the achievements as a fun part of the game really. Which may be why Final Fantasy Tactics held so much value for me (yes I know they weren't official, but I liked maxing each class without cheating). I've supported PA since I found the website and purchased Rain-Slick on day one. I'd just really like the version that everyone else got.
I'm not going to lose sleep, and I'll certainly be getting all other episodes, but it would be nice
You continue to talk around the fact the Greenhouse product is different, not inferior, than the Steam product. Most notably the multi-platform support.
not to try and split hairs, but it's the same game but with a little less .... it is inferior.
I just bought this game on Steam, downloading now.
I couldn't give a shit about achievements, but it's nice to not have to sign up for anything new, and have it on the list next to all of my other Steam games.
Posts
You were threatening to sue over this a page ago, I think I'm going to need more time before I can take any of your posts seriously.
The Steam version is, to me, superior in every way for the same cost. It is unfortunate that there doesn't seem to be any hope of integrating the Green House version into Steam.
I enjoy Episode 1, and will most likely be buying the later episodes. On Steam.
By the way, are you suggesting that you would like to donate your M-rated game to a children's hospital?
From Children's Hospital and Regional Medical Center in Seattle Washington website:
There are "kids" over 18 in children's hospitals.
I knew it would likely make it to Steam eventually. I just have an issue with a different distribution on the same platform, PC, having more features less than a month after I got the game from Greenhouse. That's the problem.
Sure achievements aren't much, and they are essentially a check list. I still find them fun challenges that add to my game experience.
Now supposedly Hothead is looking to add this functionality to the Greenhouse game versions. However today is the first I've heard they were doing it and it almost seems as if they're trying to respond to this backlash, which is good and bad. Good that they're responding, bad that they weren't able to prevent it.
I'd really like some more information from Robert or Hothead on what to expect and approximately when to expect it.
Is it beneficial to the developers that make a game that Valve doesn't want to put on Steam? Do you really want one source deciding what you can play and what you can't?
WHAT THE FUCK LUCAS FILMS YOU SLOVENLY COCKBADGERS!! WHY WOULD YOU EVEN FUCKING RELEASE IT ON VHS IF YOURE JUST GOING TO RERELEASE IT ON BLURAY?!
I understand the need for keeping online games up to date, what I don't see is how it's relevant to offline games. Surely the patch could just download in the background and install the update afterwards.
To put it another way - I haven't had any such issues updating non-Steam games on my PC or PS3 (well, except for Metal Gear Online, but I was hardly alone there...) on the same connection.
I'm sure NZ isn't the only place in the world where reliable high-speed internet isn't available 24-7. It just seems goofy to make games that can be scaled back to work on reasonably old machines, and then expect them to be hooked up to cutting-edge high-speed connections. Especially when such connections aren't actually necessary to play the games themselves...
Yeah. It'd be great if it worked.
I lol'd.
Really, I'm only complaining because I'm a huge jerk.
It has achievements, that's what he feels cheated over.
I understand achievements aren't a big deal to most people, they are to me for whatever reasons I have.
Sure things get upgraded over time. However this upgrade came less than a month from the initial release of the game.
In response to the people saying to have just waited for Steam release, they did not mention that a version with more features would make it to PC. I had assumed the exact same product that was available from Greenhouse would eventually make it to Steam. We all know what happens when you assume things, and this case is no different.
What gets me the most is that they've now taken away my incentive to purchase Episode 2 from Greenhouse. I'd much rather get it from Greenhouse, but unless they offer me the same features, then why should I get it there?
But the benefit of the episodic content is that they can take this feedback and use it to make Ep. 2 and onward to be better experiences than Ep.1 is. They've said that quite a few times.
I certainly wouldn't expect you to have to justify why you like achievements. If you, as a gamer, value them, that's enough to put the value of a version with them above a version without. I'm sure they are taking note of that and will incorporate those thoughts into their future thinking.
Thanks for the rational discussion. It must be because you are in Virginia, so you are able to use reason. What really got me is the people who obviously didn't read the interviews or statements and just made assumptions or even more, suggested that this one thing meant that not only were they not going to buy future episodes, but they were boycotting PAX and getting their lawyers on the phone. That's what prompted the "all that because of fucking achievements? are you serious?" response from me.
I guess the thing that threw everyone off is that it was expected that the PC version would be released on Steam, not some new distribution system. When they didn't mention Steam, I assumed if I wanted to play it on the PC, this was how I was supposed to get it.
Wait, what? This is news to me and I can't find it on amazon. Link please.
If they at least offer me the same product on Steam and Greenhouse for Episode 2, then without a doubt I'll get it at Greenhouse. If Episode 2 is without achievements like Episode 1, then I'll just wait for the enhanced Steam version, which if it is similar to Episode 1 will come out a mere 3 weeks later.
Notacrook, I agree some people overreacted, that's what the internet is for. I think anyone who is a little upset or more appropriately disappointed is well within reason to be so.
They should be offering more stuff for the Greenhouse version, not less.
Achievements are those messages that pop up when you hit a milestone or complete some arbitrary "cool" objective, right? Like
My non-Steam version had those.
If I didn't already have the game and wanted to buy it today I would still buy the Greenhouse version.
Steam has given me problems, none of which are Valves fault but also none which couldn't have been avoided if Steam allowed me more options (or options that worked more reliably) in how things were managed
I like like what Greenhouse is about. I like that more money goes to the developers / creators than Steam. I like how there are Mac and Linux versions on offer not just windows. I like how I don't need to load another program from which to launch the game that has to stay running in the background while I play which also might pause to update before letting me get to the game.
I appreciated being able to buy a native Linux version because keeping a windows partition and rebooting just to play games is a pain in the arse (Wine is far from perfect) Best of all was being able to show that people would actually pay for retail Linux games if that was a available option
Steam/Valve isn't interested in people who aren't windows users or those who cannot continuously reliable, fast internet connection. Which is fine but it's nice to know someone is willing to offer thing to a wider audience.
Switch Friend Code: SW-3349-7357-2013
3DS Friend code: 3093 8504 2352
Apparently that is the case, but I don't see how it's HotHead's fault that they continually stuck to the mantra of "as many platforms and distribution methods as possible" and people still came to an incorrect conclusion.
Besides, the more games they have on the service the more potential for them to make money, I can't see them turning people away.
I'm sure way more developers have chosen not put their games on Steam, rather than the other way around, because they think Steam takes too large a chunk of the sales. That may or may not be a valid criticism, I'm not in a position to know, but there's got to be significant value in a proven service with an established audience that handles all the billing and delivery (downloads) for you.
In any case, the consumer side of things still stands. I don't want to have to maintain logins and go to umpteen different download services to get all my games, do you? Having one service where I get everything is so much more beneficial for me.
Isn't it wonderful to have options available to satisfy almost any level of our insatiable demands? I submit that it is, indeed, wonderful.
I also don't feel bad at all for Hothead, they brought it upon themselves by releasing an enhanced product less than 3 weeks from the initial release.
Being able to play the game on a computer that does not use Windows is more than Steam offers.
Switch Friend Code: SW-3349-7357-2013
3DS Friend code: 3093 8504 2352
I fully applaud them for having multiple operating system versions.
However, let's say you are a Windows user, which happens to be the majority of people who got it for PC, which version has more features? As of right now, there is no incentive for me to get episode 2 from Greenhouse.
That's because a lot of people don't see them as that big a deal. I play games for my own entertainment, not to wave my e-peen about for people on my friends list or whatever.
I don't feel bad for Hothead either, because this move will still translate into more sales, not less.
It has ONE more feature that many people don't even care about.
Has Hothead announced that there will definitely be no achievements in the Greenhouse version of episode 2? Or are you just threatening to boycott a service that didn't do things 100% perfect on its first try?
Also I never said I was going to boycott Greenhouse and they claim to be adding these achievements at some undetermined date. If you actually read what I've said, I've said I want to get it from Greenhouse, I just want the same features if I do.
Why would I buy a game from one place that sells a version with less features for the same price. Not boycotting anything, just making smart purchases.
At the time of purchase you decided the Greenhouse product was worth $20. You still own the product you deemed worth $20. A similar product with slightly different features existing on a different platform is not even relevant to the discussion.
The fact HotHead is listening to player feedback, and adding features to the product we purchased, at no addition cost to us, is excellent, and should be commended.
If you want to commend them, then do it, and stop your petty bitching and moaning.
I'm not going to lose sleep, and I'll certainly be getting all other episodes, but it would be nice
not to try and split hairs, but it's the same game but with a little less .... it is inferior.
Still worth $20 though
Then you can pin it to your lapel for the world to see.
yeah, I just think they're fun goals and challenges and it's nice when they're built into the game.
no need to be a cock about it son.
I couldn't give a shit about achievements, but it's nice to not have to sign up for anything new, and have it on the list next to all of my other Steam games.