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Strategy RPGs and me: SRPGs inf., me 0

yalborapyalborap Registered User regular
edited July 2008 in Games and Technology
So, I enjoy playing strategy RPGs. They're fun, enjoyable games without the boringness of JRPGs.

However, I am TERRIBLE at them. Ball-bustingly, gasp-inducingly, TERRIBLE.

Disgaea? Short of grinding my ass off well beyond what should be the norm, I lose time and time again.

Super Robot Wars? I can only play the Original Generation games, where I lose. Constantly.

Advance Wars? I'm stuck maybe TWELVE missions into Days of Ruin.

Because of these and other failings, I come to you, PA G&T forums, with but a simple request. What the hell am I missing that is making me suck so bad? Do I just need to slow way down? Have I somehow picked the toughest games ever? Am I just not WIRED right and need to give it up? Tell me, PA, what can I do to get a core skill I am missing, that no amount of simply trying again can lend me?

yalborap on

Posts

  • JebralJebral The guy nobody pays attention to Down South in the land of free thinkingRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    I'm the same way.

    For instance, FFT sounds like a dream on paper... Like it would be right up my alley. But then I try to play it, and I'm just horrible at it. But I keep trying because it contains what is, in my mind, the very best character customization system ever.

    Jebral on
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  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    yalborap wrote: »
    Super Robot Wars? I can only play the Original Generation games, where I lose. Constantly.

    First off, OG2 is just hard by nature. It's only ever easy towards the end when you have your pilots built up and your mecha upgraded and even then you can easily be shot down if you screw up or get unlucky. And going for battle masteries on new game is also not going to always succeed.

    There's A LOT to take in with these games. Knowing which pilots should go ranged, which should go melee, which should go in supers, which should go in reals, which reals to use (there are far less supers), which weapons to upgrade, which skills to get, etc. are not things that come intuitively all at once.

    The general advice I've seen and used for OG1 is to get support 1 on any pilot that does not have it followed by upgrading space and either air or ground terrain skill depending on which the pilot's mech normally is in/on. That gives a lot of support attacks and makes incoming attacks less painful when something like Giganscudo is taking the blows. For OG2, SP regen is your first priority. Focus or Alert is crucial when you deal with lots of enemies and you need to keep them up.

    Save your upgrades for the unique mechs (basically anything not a Gespent M or Schutzwald). Steel knives and machine guns give the most bang for the buck in terms of power per money used on upgrades.
    Advance Wars? I'm stuck maybe TWELVE missions into Days of Ruin.

    Lots of the AW missions are like puzzles. Just a matter of figuring out what direction you're supposed to head off to first.

    Steel Angel on
    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • yalborapyalborap Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Well, I was doing that in OG2, but still getting my ass beat. I think it's a core...I don't know. Lack of strategic thinking, I guess. I get my ass beat in RTSes too.

    I basically need to get my brain to think in that strategic way to produce good results. Any suggestions/ideas on how to pull that off?

    yalborap on
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    It sounds like you're starting off with the harder games in the genre. Maybe master something easier before taking on the brutal likes of OG and Disgaea(not that difficult, but definitely complex)?

    Not sure if this is any help, but my general strategy is to lure enemies over one at a time, then hit them with everything, repeat. It works in some games; not so much in others(try this in Stella Deus, and all the nearby enemies will follow).

    cj iwakura on
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    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
  • Kris_xKKris_xK Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    yalborap wrote: »
    Disgaea? Short of grinding my ass off well beyond what should be the norm, I lose time and time again.

    You mean grinding like crazy isn't the norm for Disgaea? I'm talking about Disgaea 2, but some of the fights in that require crazy leveling up.

    The best tip I can give struggling Disgaea players is item world. Item world Item World ITEM WORLD ITEMWORLD.

    Seriosly. Not only is it a great place to get levels (mmmm... invincibility panels..) it's a great place to improve items (duh). While this may not seem like much, even adding ten levels and a couple of specialists to a weapon dramatically increases the damage you can do.

    I know how you feel tho. Despite repeated attempts to be good at FFT: WOTL, I still suck ass at it. Not as bad as I suck at Monster Hunter 2 Freedom, but still a lot of suck.

    Kris_xK on
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  • Dr Mario KartDr Mario Kart Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Those games you have picked are reasonably difficult though.

    I think knowing how the AI works in the context of each game is important.

    For instance: Can I move within one square of a baddie's range with a tank to bait him in and then have everyone jump him?

    Knowing who the enemy are likely to attack in different situations.
    Knowing when to be aggressive and when to let the enemy come to you.

    Dr Mario Kart on
  • JCRooksJCRooks Registered User
    edited June 2008
    Practice?

    Contrary to popular belief, there is a lot of skill with strategy RPGs. While luck does play a factor, skill and experience overwhelmingly trump it.

    If you're dying over and over in the same battle, make sure you're actually trying something different each time. Don't assume that you lost because the computer cheats. I think that's the #1 frustration new players have, that the AI is magically able to cheat and there's no possible way to win. If anything, the AI in SRPGs is often not that good, provided you know how it works. And there's no way to figure that out with a lot of good 'ole fashion practice.

    Some general tips that can be applied across almost all SRPGs:
    1. Let the AI come to you
    2. Look one move ahead (where can the AI move next turn?)
    3. Know thy enemy (what abilities do they have, what are their strengths/weaknesses, etc.)
    4. When in doubt, grind! (sometimes you do just have to level your guys up)
    If those things just don't appeal to you at all, and you'd rather win without them ... then SRPGs probably aren't the genre for you. That's fine, as long as you know why.

    JCRooks on
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  • yalborapyalborap Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Those games you have picked are reasonably difficult though.

    I think knowing how the AI works in the context of each game is important.

    For instance: Can I move within one square of a baddie's range with a tank to bait him in and then have everyone jump him?

    Knowing who the enemy are likely to attack in different situations.
    Knowing when to be aggressive and when to let the enemy come to you.

    Then what would you suggest as a 'starting game' that isn't too horribly difficult?

    yalborap on
  • NorayNoray Registered User
    edited June 2008
    The Final Fantasy Tactics Advance games are pretty easy. I think I popped my SRPG cherry on FFTA 1. It has some near-broken (powerful) class combinations. It's still a very fun game, imo. If you can't get ahold of FFTA1, part 2 just came out, and basically plays the same and assumes no knowledge of any previous game or anything.

    Noray on
  • Kris_xKKris_xK Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    yalborap wrote: »
    Those games you have picked are reasonably difficult though.

    I think knowing how the AI works in the context of each game is important.

    For instance: Can I move within one square of a baddie's range with a tank to bait him in and then have everyone jump him?

    Knowing who the enemy are likely to attack in different situations.
    Knowing when to be aggressive and when to let the enemy come to you.

    Then what would you suggest as a 'starting game' that isn't too horribly difficult?

    Chess.

    I swear to god I'm not trolling, it really does help.

    Kris_xK on
    calvinhobbessleddingsig2.gif
  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    edited June 2008
    Rhapsody's the easiest strategy RPG ever made, for one, and there's a US release in the works for the DS port.

    cj iwakura on
    9LlOwgn.png
    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    edited June 2008
    yalborap wrote: »
    Well, I was doing that in OG2, but still getting my ass beat. I think it's a core...I don't know. Lack of strategic thinking, I guess. I get my ass beat in RTSes too.

    I basically need to get my brain to think in that strategic way to produce good results. Any suggestions/ideas on how to pull that off?

    Even with that stuff, OG2 is still tough. You're just not as likely to get repeatedly shot down by most enemies. Until a new game+ though, you'll often have to wait for bosses to retreat by themselves instead of forcing a retreat. Reading one the guides to the different pilots and mecha on Gamefaqs can help too since each pilot and most machines are unique and it's a lot of info to take in.

    For a not-tough SRPG, the new hotness right now would be Final Fantasy Tactics Advanced 2. The FFTA series is often regarded as too easy by veterans of the genre (it can seriously be broken when you figure out certain combinations of skills), but that's not an issue for beginners.

    Steel Angel on
    Big Dookie wrote: »
    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

    Steam Profile
    3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
  • MalechaiMalechai Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Rhapsody's the easiest strategy RPG ever made, for one, and there's a US release in the works for the DS port.

    Actualy Namco X Capcom is the easiest SRPG ever made. Only understanding a fifth of what was going on through my broken japanese I was able to go 6 hours into the game with out any issues. Honestly the game was a gimic but kinda awsome hitting a boss with Ken and Ryu doing a double hadouken then having Jin and Armor King do a combo attack right after.

    Malechai on
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  • RainbowDespairRainbowDespair Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Malechai wrote: »
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Rhapsody's the easiest strategy RPG ever made, for one, and there's a US release in the works for the DS port.

    Actualy Namco X Capcom is the easiest SRPG ever made. Only understanding a fifth of what was going on through my broken japanese I was able to go 6 hours into the game with out any issues. Honestly the game was a gimic but kinda awsome hitting a boss with Ken and Ryu doing a double hadouken then having Jin and Armor King do a combo attack right after.

    I don't care how easy Namco x Capcom is, there's no way on earth that it's easier than Rhapsody. Seriously, in Rhapsody, enemies just don't hurt you and that was on the hardest difficulty level. The whole time I was playing, I felt like the programmer accidentally forgot to insert a damage chart into the game and so the game just assumed that all enemies should deal 1HP of damage.

    RainbowDespair on
  • MalechaiMalechai Registered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Malechai wrote: »
    cj iwakura wrote: »
    Rhapsody's the easiest strategy RPG ever made, for one, and there's a US release in the works for the DS port.

    Actualy Namco X Capcom is the easiest SRPG ever made. Only understanding a fifth of what was going on through my broken japanese I was able to go 6 hours into the game with out any issues. Honestly the game was a gimic but kinda awsome hitting a boss with Ken and Ryu doing a double hadouken then having Jin and Armor King do a combo attack right after.

    I don't care how easy Namco x Capcom is, there's no way on earth that it's easier than Rhapsody. Seriously, in Rhapsody, enemies just don't hurt you and that was on the hardest difficulty level. The whole time I was playing, I felt like the programmer accidentally forgot to insert a damage chart into the game and so the game just assumed that all enemies should deal 1HP of damage.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=UeeUM7UIEQs

    When you do actualy come under attack in the game there is a defence minigame thats kinda like simon or god of war. Serriously I don't think I ever had any charactor fall below 50% hp the whole time I played. Got bored cause the game was so cake. Though Kos-Mos and Shion were a cool team.

    Malechai on
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  • cj iwakuracj iwakura The Rhythm Regent Chantry of NightmaresRegistered User regular
    edited July 2008
    Namco X Capcom in a nutshell:

    -five allies appear
    -six enemies appear
    -kill three enemies, twenty more appear
    -two turns pass, every single ally you have appears

    I made it as far as Chapter 20 something, and every single level has followed this pattern.

    It's not difficult, but it can sure be tedious.

    cj iwakura on
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    Well, good morning. Welcome to the new scenario. What should we do today?
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