I'd accept that, even though I found plenty of uses for a scout once I got good at the game. But I'd hardly say that it broke TFC nor would I say that it invalidates my stance that medics are disproportionately powerful in this game because of their healing capabilities and that their healing was more reasonable prior.
BTW, medics made scouts useless because they had grenades, not because of mobility advantage.
Yea, but you had to maintain close contact with the target. There were major drawbacks to it. Now you have autobeam around corners that heals pretty rapidly, especially in the overheal territory.
What I'm ultimately getting at is that it's frustrating in pubs, even PA games, when your team all picks a class that they want to play and no one happens to be a medic. If the other team has even one competent medic your chances of victory are slim. Medics may have been excellent flag runners in TFC, but so were other classes. No game required any one class (save sniper in some cases) to remain competitive.
I see what you mean about the healing, I thought you were talking about medics in general. Even so, I still scoff at any suggestion that TFC was balanced. :P
I'd accept that, even though I found plenty of uses for a scout once I got good at the game. But I'd hardly say that it broke TFC nor would I say that it invalidates my stance that medics are disproportionately powerful in this game because of their healing capabilities and that their healing was more reasonable prior.
BTW, medics made scouts useless because they had grenades, not because of mobility advantage.
They go in tandem, but I'd still side with the concs/bhopping combo. If the medics hadn't had concs, they probably wouldn't have overtaken scouts for offense. If they hadn't had grenades, they might still have come close to the scout's offensive utility, what with the supershotgun being such a beast.
edit: And to the above post, I'd definitely go so far as to say that in TFC teams "required" medics and soldiers to be competitive. No one on the top tiers of 8v8 and 9v9 ran without at least two or three of each.
Well, we were expecting some response to A Heavy Problem, but we severely underestimated just how much interest everyone had in contributing. If you're one of the many folks who emailed us proposals and haven't received a response, please accept our apologies, because there's just too many for us to reply to all of them. From the large amount of feedback and forum activity, it's clear that many of you found this interesting, so we'll definitely be posting more design goals. For those of you still thinking about it, here are some more tools to use in evaluating ideas:
* Does it affect the main weaknesses of the class? What could opponents do against an entire team of this class armed with your idea? Class balance is more a function of the weaknesses of each class than their strengths. Weaknesses provide population control, where the value of a counter class rises as a class's population rises. i.e. Snipers become more valuable the more Heavies there are on the enemy team. As a result, we're very wary of reducing a class's weaknesses.
* How does it affect the core interactions between this class and other classes? To help here, it's useful to coarsely determine the standard interaction for this class and each other class at short, medium, long ranges, and varying terrain layouts, assuming roughly equal skill on each player's part. Then think about how your idea affects each of those interactions.
* Does it also solve other goals we have for the class? We usually have several goals we're trying to achieve with a class, and ideas which solve multiples are more valuable.
The last one raises another question: What other goals should we have for the Heavy update? Half the battle of good design is choosing the right goals and the right constraints. In A Heavy Problem, we specified a goal for you, and the constraints that had to be kept in mind. Try taking a shot at defining the overall set of goals that the Heavy unlockables should be trying to achieve. Watch out for the common circular logic trap of finding an idea you like and then trying to extract goals from it. We find it's best to not think about ideas at all at this point, and to focus entirely on more abstract goals. What are the biggest problems in the Heavy class? In what situations is it the least fun? Like idea evaluation, goal generation is a big topic in itself, and one we'll go into in a later post.
Posts
It would fill the entire room with fat.
TFC did a ton of things right. But it was also broken by people who figured out how to exploit things.
Example, please.
BTW, medics made scouts useless because they had grenades, not because of mobility advantage.
What I'm ultimately getting at is that it's frustrating in pubs, even PA games, when your team all picks a class that they want to play and no one happens to be a medic. If the other team has even one competent medic your chances of victory are slim. Medics may have been excellent flag runners in TFC, but so were other classes. No game required any one class (save sniper in some cases) to remain competitive.
Especially since he was so fast, you could run up to the guy trying to shoot you, infect him, shoot him, then go back to healing your man.
And TF2's gameplay is far different from TFC's. They don't really compare that well.
They go in tandem, but I'd still side with the concs/bhopping combo. If the medics hadn't had concs, they probably wouldn't have overtaken scouts for offense. If they hadn't had grenades, they might still have come close to the scout's offensive utility, what with the supershotgun being such a beast.
edit: And to the above post, I'd definitely go so far as to say that in TFC teams "required" medics and soldiers to be competitive. No one on the top tiers of 8v8 and 9v9 ran without at least two or three of each.
I can't look at that site at work
Oh, it's too awesome for that. I mean, it's the greatest post ever, really.
And they said it's coming down in half an hour. Kinda sucks.
3DS Friend Code: 2707-1614-5576
PAX Prime 2014 Buttoneering!
or maybe heavy is boring I can't tell
Thanks anyway Zen.
About the balls thing? PM me, we'll work out something...
but I have unlocked its secrets...
Back in ancient history when I started playing FPS games I had shift, A, Z and whatever you yanquis have between shift and Z for controls.
We don't have anything between shift and Z.
real men with real man sized hands.
The times they have a-changed.
its heart was all aflutter.
Along came the nine-fifteen:
Toot toot!
Hevay puzzle is best solved with the B.O.N.K. algorithm.
Not quite, the answer to the puzzle is that you need to be behind three medics. The puzzle is the question. And the question is the-
Come sing with me!
Also that is the best poem in the history of the past six weeks. Or more. Quite probably more.
Unknown:
Gin Soaked Boy proves the Pyro is a man by revealing its humongous penis:
Iowa looks to the future:
And I thought this was funny because of Blindpsychic's voice command in the lower left, and the leadup to this event that it implies:
Off screen, right side: "HUDDA HUDDA HUDDA!"
This is why he could not move backwards.
They never feel wrong
And when I wake
For goodness sake
These are the songs
I keep honkin'
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch