I don't think it's fair to make the comparison - the Ennis Punisher is entirely different than the Fraction Punisher (which Fraction himself has said is by design).
i actually really haven't cared for the fraction punisher until yesterday when i got the trade of hunter/hunted. i bought it in singles when it was first coming out, dropped it, picked up the second trade, really didn't like much of it (though i do like that art), and decided that because i love like literally every other thing of fraction's, i'd give it one more chance with this third trade. i really like the third one. i don't know what's different about it, but i'm enjoying it a lot more.
and fraction's writing what is, essentially, a humor book. it's not unlike ennis' original marvel knights punisher stuff in some ways. there's a lot of the same disdain for superheroes, comic violence, black humor one-liners from frank...
but the MAX stuff is just on a completely different level. it's the difference between "diggstown" and "raging bull", if i may use my love of boxing movies as an analogy for a moment.
Anti-moment of the week: X-Factor #33. Worst art I've ever seen in a comic book. Worse than Titans.
Agreed, the art and story before was a great mix that made you happy to buy the title month after month. Now the art makes you want someone to read you the story without having to look at it.
So do we know if the people that have been replaced by skrulls were killed or not?
Are Elektra, Pym, Jarvis, and many others gone?
That would suck
I suggested that they're all still alive, since the Queen told the Skrull impersonating Pym they'd swap her out with a new Skrull after killing Scarlet Witch before M day. In order to copy his memories over, he'd technically still be alive. It would be easier to keep them sedated and fed through an IV as compared to killing them, ripping their brains out, and keeping them in stasis in order to replace a Skrull of someone like Pym.
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
edited July 2008
Batgirl #1 was all right, I guess. I think the story is pretty good (although a lot of it was just Beechen making excuses for his old mistakes), but it was incredibly heavy on the exposition and Nightwing's characterization was just plain wrong. It was more in line with Tim's attitude.
I loved Rogues Revenge but I don't understand why they don't kill the Trickster kid.
Rogues don't do that
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
edited July 2008
Man, Joker's Asylum has been weird. I enjoyed the first issue a little, loved the Penguin issue, but what was up with this week's (Poison Ivy)? I didn't understand the "ending" at all. It was like it just stopped mid-story.
Well during Rogue War, James Jesse, the first Trickster beat the shit out of Axel and told him he'd murder him if he caught him using the Trickster gimmicks again.
Unfortunately, James went and got himself killed before he could make good on the promise. Whoops.
But Valley Forge, Valley Forge has been absolutely boring
edit: Absolutely too many absolutelies in this post.
Because this is tying up story lines that have been building for five years, not just "FUCK BARRACUDA"
Even so, it has been a little dull so far. Especially the latest issue, which really didn't need like 10 pages of Rawlins telling us stuff we already know. Plus, the ending leaves it in pretty much exactly the same place as the last issue.
fray on
"I told you," said Ford. "Eddies in the space-time continuum."
"And this is his sofa, is it?" said Arthur.
It just hit me with a wave of nostalgia, since the same artist did Peter David's original X-Factor run... oh god over a decade ago. I'm old... oooooooooold
Why would Skrull Longshot reveal himself for no reason, and start talking to himself in an empty alley. In every other SI book I've ever seen, they don't shift, even when they know the other person is a Skrull.
MuddBudd on
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
So, I liked Rogue's Revenge, although it seems to screw up the timeline, but I assume the stuff that is going on in Flash.....doesn't count? Also, the whole calling Bart "Kid Flash" just annoys me.....yes, let's kill Bart for no reason then downgrade him as though he didn't save the whole damn city.
Also late to the party, Requiem was great, and if Ted Kord and other heroes that put their whole lives into crimefighting had got this sort of sendoff, guys like Munch and myself wouldn't have much to protest with how DC does things. It was a great example of storytelling and how to "end" the story.
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
edited July 2008
When Cold was talking about killing Bart he said "We killed a Flash. A "kid" Flash." as in he was young, not Kid Flash
When Cold was talking about killing Bart he said "We killed a Flash. A "kid" Flash." as in he was young, not Kid Flash
Cold says Kid Flash, when they explain things to Trickster they say Kid Flash, when Piper talks about Bart he says Kid Flash, guys in the museum call him Kid Flash, the TV report near the end says Kid Flash. Do you see a theme here? Then there's the reveal at the end......
But Valley Forge, Valley Forge has been absolutely boring
edit: Absolutely too many absolutelies in this post.
Because this is tying up story lines that have been building for five years, not just "FUCK BARRACUDA"
You're right, maybe that is why it's boring.
It also might be because there isn't a whole lot happening and the novel excerpts keep interrupting the story without adding anything.
My favorite Punisher MAX arc is definitely Mother Russia; it was violent, tense, exciting, and above all, clever. In general, I feel all of those traits have been somewhat on the decline in MAX since Widowmaker, and Valley Forge, Valley Forge feels the dullest of all.
Which is not to say that I dislike it, necessarily, or even that I disliked the arcs since Man of Stone, but they have been lacking a bit of the magic that made the first few stories so awesome.
I loved Rogues Revenge but I don't understand why they don't kill the Trickster kid.
did you not see the part in which Captain Cold explains that?
No, they don't kill Flashes. Nothing was said about imposter children. They were certainly willing to beat the shit out of them.
So they should at least hit him.
They don't kill other than for survival or good old vengeance.
Fine, then they should still beat the shit out of him!
Wait a sec. Flash's rogues don't try to kill him? What do they do, annoy him?
Also, how did they kill Bart? I was about to start reading more DC comics, but they killed one of my favorite characters, and I dropped everything but Titans, which slowly turned into crap.
Personally, I don't know why Johns didn't just pull a, "Oh it was the disembodied spirit of the Top exerting his influence over them in revenge for Captain Cold destroying his body!" There's precedent, and it's easier to buy (for me) than a bunch of hardened criminals not realizing that when you shoot and stomp on a guy, he'll die.
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Every moment of it
But Valley Forge, Valley Forge has been absolutely boring
edit: Absolutely too many absolutelies in this post.
i actually really haven't cared for the fraction punisher until yesterday when i got the trade of hunter/hunted. i bought it in singles when it was first coming out, dropped it, picked up the second trade, really didn't like much of it (though i do like that art), and decided that because i love like literally every other thing of fraction's, i'd give it one more chance with this third trade. i really like the third one. i don't know what's different about it, but i'm enjoying it a lot more.
and fraction's writing what is, essentially, a humor book. it's not unlike ennis' original marvel knights punisher stuff in some ways. there's a lot of the same disdain for superheroes, comic violence, black humor one-liners from frank...
but the MAX stuff is just on a completely different level. it's the difference between "diggstown" and "raging bull", if i may use my love of boxing movies as an analogy for a moment.
Because this is tying up story lines that have been building for five years, not just "FUCK BARRACUDA"
Agreed, the art and story before was a great mix that made you happy to buy the title month after month. Now the art makes you want someone to read you the story without having to look at it.
She-hulk at the end looked like a transvestite.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
did you not see the part in which Captain Cold explains that?
No, they don't kill Flashes. Nothing was said about imposter children. They were certainly willing to beat the shit out of them.
So they should at least hit him.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
They don't kill other than for survival or good old vengeance.
Fine, then they should still beat the shit out of him!
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Unfortunately, James went and got himself killed before he could make good on the promise. Whoops.
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The art was goddawful, the story is shit. Obviously all the talent that made the book so amazing before is gone now.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Even so, it has been a little dull so far. Especially the latest issue, which really didn't need like 10 pages of Rawlins telling us stuff we already know. Plus, the ending leaves it in pretty much exactly the same place as the last issue.
"And this is his sofa, is it?" said Arthur.
10 hours and counting, I suspect this shall be my moment of forever as well.
but the only thing that changed is the art
but the writing was just as good as ever
Is it?
Why would Skrull Longshot reveal himself for no reason, and start talking to himself in an empty alley. In every other SI book I've ever seen, they don't shift, even when they know the other person is a Skrull.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
I really like the series but I thought this was a terrible issue. The dialogue was weird and stilted and the story was hard to follow.
Also late to the party, Requiem was great, and if Ted Kord and other heroes that put their whole lives into crimefighting had got this sort of sendoff, guys like Munch and myself wouldn't have much to protest with how DC does things. It was a great example of storytelling and how to "end" the story.
Cold says Kid Flash, when they explain things to Trickster they say Kid Flash, when Piper talks about Bart he says Kid Flash, guys in the museum call him Kid Flash, the TV report near the end says Kid Flash. Do you see a theme here? Then there's the reveal at the end......
You're right, maybe that is why it's boring.
It also might be because there isn't a whole lot happening and the novel excerpts keep interrupting the story without adding anything.
My favorite Punisher MAX arc is definitely Mother Russia; it was violent, tense, exciting, and above all, clever. In general, I feel all of those traits have been somewhat on the decline in MAX since Widowmaker, and Valley Forge, Valley Forge feels the dullest of all.
Which is not to say that I dislike it, necessarily, or even that I disliked the arcs since Man of Stone, but they have been lacking a bit of the magic that made the first few stories so awesome.
Wait a sec. Flash's rogues don't try to kill him? What do they do, annoy him?
Also, how did they kill Bart? I was about to start reading more DC comics, but they killed one of my favorite characters, and I dropped everything but Titans, which slowly turned into crap.
But it was totally an accident.
Personally, I don't know why Johns didn't just pull a, "Oh it was the disembodied spirit of the Top exerting his influence over them in revenge for Captain Cold destroying his body!" There's precedent, and it's easier to buy (for me) than a bunch of hardened criminals not realizing that when you shoot and stomp on a guy, he'll die.
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