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Insane game dev asks pirates to email him

2456716

Posts

  • apotheosapotheos Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited August 2008
    because it's a different product? when I wanted to play dark messiah and my pc wasn't working I went and bought the X Box version because it is a different product and there's no real basis for me not paying for it other than "well I don't want to".

    Isn't that game supposed to be horrible? And you bought two copies?

    Well done sir, well done.

    apotheos on


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  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    It has it's, very very, enjoyable moments.

    Edit: and stability varies a lot depending on the system, it was fine for me, but I hear some horror stories.

    LewieP on
  • apotheosapotheos Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited August 2008
    LewieP wrote: »
    If you don't want to buy a game because it has starforce, don't buy it. Be a man. Don't go and pirate it because wah wah starforce.

    They never told you on the box if it had starforce, a lot of the time I only found out after buying it. If the law was properly enforced I would have been able to get a refund, but I would basically have to take the publisher to court to ever get that, and lord knows they would be able to outlaywer me.

    Caveat emptor. And don't tell that info is hard to find on the internet because we all know it isn't.

    apotheos on


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  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited August 2008
    subedii wrote: »
    If you don't want to buy a game because it has starforce, don't buy it. Be a man. Don't go and pirate it because wah wah starforce.

    I did buy it. I tried to pirate it because even when I tried to install it the legit copy would not run. I don't have any issue with cracking or pirating a game that I've already frigging paid for. Yes I know, it drives piracy figures up, abloo abloo. Sod it, I bought it, I am GOING to try and play it.

    If you've paid for it, I don't care if you download it. If you broke your game disk and download it I don't really consider that dishonest (the whole "you're not buying the product, you're buying the license to play it" thing cuts two ways, fuckers).

    I also consider abandonware to be a seperate issue from piracy.

    Tube on
  • liuzg150181liuzg150181 Registered User
    edited August 2008
    Sharp10r wrote: »
    One common answer is probably GREED. People want more than they have or can have on their own. That was my problem. It's a different story now for me, but that's because of my faith and it's moral exhortations.

    For an indie developer, my guess would be if you have:
    1. Set a reasonable price for the product
    2. Released a demo which lets me taste the MAJOR game mechanics to see if I like them (That is- if you have driving levels, but I don't get to play one- I don't know how your game handles driving levels)
    and
    3. Found a way to give me incentive to buy through extras (cloth map in Neverwinter Nights) or even an instruction book containing an art section.

    You know, for a small developer, maybe for number 3 you mail everyone who registers their serial number something extra, like box art signed, I don't know, I'm thinking "out loud."

    The deck is stacked against you, so I think your OP is a step in a good direction toward creative problem solving. Good luck!
    There's a phrase which could describe such situation: Tragedy of the commons.
    Individuals would rather pirate the games to derive benefits in the short run, even at the expense of the gaming community(more true for pc gaming, like hurting indie game developers even if they come up with good innovative gaming mechanism, or anti-piracy technology) in the long run.
    Though as some have forementioned and attested to, some developers really give shoddy excuse not to rectify technical issues, and therefore being really unjustified in earning the profit.

    liuzg150181 on
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited August 2008
    apotheos wrote: »
    because it's a different product? when I wanted to play dark messiah and my pc wasn't working I went and bought the X Box version because it is a different product and there's no real basis for me not paying for it other than "well I don't want to".

    Isn't that game supposed to be horrible? And you bought two copies?

    Well done sir, well done.

    It is absolutely horrible. Around 20% of it, however, is sublime.

    Tube on
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited August 2008
    also starforce isn't really that bad you people are pussies

    Tube on
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    apotheos wrote: »
    LewieP wrote: »
    If you don't want to buy a game because it has starforce, don't buy it. Be a man. Don't go and pirate it because wah wah starforce.

    They never told you on the box if it had starforce, a lot of the time I only found out after buying it. If the law was properly enforced I would have been able to get a refund, but I would basically have to take the publisher to court to ever get that, and lord knows they would be able to outlaywer me.

    Caveat emptor. And don't tell that info is hard to find on the internet because we all know it isn't.

    At release? before anyone else has found out.

    And what if I see a game in a bargain bin somewhere, and I have no internet access. I should not have to check an online database to see if a game is going to break my PC before I purchase it. Also, some games had starforce and non-starforce releases in the same region, and you would have to check a serial number just to know which was which (like King Kong for example).

    LewieP on
  • apotheosapotheos Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited August 2008
    I find piracy particularly silly in that pretty much any game (maybe excluding the Halos and GTAs of the world) will sooner or later cost basically fuck all to buy. No one is asking you to drop full price on a game if you're not sure if you'll like it. Be a grown up and wait until it's in the bargain bin. You can buy some of the best games ever made for ten dollars.

    This only really works for popular games, you need to be very lucky to certain titles.

    I think piracy is fueled much more by the "victimless crime" or "why shouldn't I download this thing I just found?" rather than rarity or financial concerns.

    Although there certainly is a starving student demographic that pirates in its own way.

    apotheos on


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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Caveat emptor is a load of shit. Caveat venditor is how it should be and is how it usually is.

    Couscous on
  • apotheosapotheos Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited August 2008
    LewieP wrote: »
    And what if I see a game in a bargain bin somewhere, and I have no internet access. I should not have to check an online database to see if a game is going to break my PC before I purchase it. Also, some games had starforce and non-starforce releases in the same region, and you would have to check a serial number just to know which was which (like King Kong for example).

    You care about something the vast majority of consumers don't, and no it won't break your PC. And if it does you should probably fix your PC, as despite moral objections Starforce is a pretty reliable piece of software.

    apotheos on


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  • subediisubedii Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    subedii wrote: »
    If you don't want to buy a game because it has starforce, don't buy it. Be a man. Don't go and pirate it because wah wah starforce.

    I did buy it. I tried to pirate it because even when I tried to install it the legit copy would not run. I don't have any issue with cracking or pirating a game that I've already frigging paid for. Yes I know, it drives piracy figures up, abloo abloo. Sod it, I bought it, I am GOING to try and play it.

    If you've paid for it, I don't care if you download it. If you broke your game disk and download it I don't really consider that dishonest (the whole "you're not buying the product, you're buying the license to play it" thing cuts two ways, fuckers)

    That I agree with, and it's also my fundamental problem with the way that current IP law is implemented. At least in the UK, it's illegal to crack the copyright protection on a game you own, even to make backup copies. Format shifting? Companies still try to maintain that's illegal too. They try to have it both ways, you're purchasing the licence when it suits them, you're purchasing the disc at other times. I hate that kind of doublethink.

    subedii on
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited August 2008
    yes but no one actually cares if you crack it to backup your data so isn't the point somewhat moot?

    Tube on
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    apotheos wrote: »
    LewieP wrote: »
    And what if I see a game in a bargain bin somewhere, and I have no internet access. I should not have to check an online database to see if a game is going to break my PC before I purchase it. Also, some games had starforce and non-starforce releases in the same region, and you would have to check a serial number just to know which was which (like King Kong for example).

    You care about something the vast majority of consumers don't, and no it won't break your PC. And if it does you should probably fix your PC, as despite moral objections Starforce is a pretty reliable piece of software.

    You're right, it is the principal more than anything.

    I am directly funding the development of a game by choosing to give them money, and what do I get in return? I get software installed on my PC that can damage my PC's hardware, and will impact performance. The only purpose this software has is to stop me infringing copyright.

    The thanks I get for choosing to pay for a game instead infringing it's copyright is being accused of being a pirate and having my computer held hostage.

    No, I reject that, and I will circumvent it.

    LewieP on
  • subediisubedii Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    apotheos wrote: »
    LewieP wrote: »
    And what if I see a game in a bargain bin somewhere, and I have no internet access. I should not have to check an online database to see if a game is going to break my PC before I purchase it. Also, some games had starforce and non-starforce releases in the same region, and you would have to check a serial number just to know which was which (like King Kong for example).

    You care about something the vast majority of consumers don't, and no it won't break your PC. And if it does you should probably fix your PC, as despite moral objections Starforce is a pretty reliable piece of software.

    Bullcrap it is. Starforce takes over ring 0 access of drivers, this in itself is a very bad thing.

    To give you an idea of just how bad a thing it is, windows Vista will not allow Starforce to run. I know, I tried. Even if you go through all the UAC stuff and try to install it, the moment that Starforce tries to run Vista will tell you that it refuses to allow this software root access to your drivers as that is inherently a bad thing. No ifs or buts, no option to click "accept", it's simply refused.

    Which is just as well, I am very glad that Vista is programmed to not allow such software through. Because before on my XP machine? Yeah, I did get starforce installed on that, windows had no objections. From then on I was getting constant blue-screens every time I booted up, and the only thing that solved it was a reformat.

    subedii on
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited August 2008
    LewieP wrote: »
    apotheos wrote: »
    LewieP wrote: »
    And what if I see a game in a bargain bin somewhere, and I have no internet access. I should not have to check an online database to see if a game is going to break my PC before I purchase it. Also, some games had starforce and non-starforce releases in the same region, and you would have to check a serial number just to know which was which (like King Kong for example).

    You care about something the vast majority of consumers don't, and no it won't break your PC. And if it does you should probably fix your PC, as despite moral objections Starforce is a pretty reliable piece of software.

    You're right, it is the principal more than anything.

    I am directly funding the development of a game by choosing to give them money, and what do I get in return? I get software installed on my PC that can damage my PC's hardware, and will impact performance. The only purpose this software has is to stop me infringing copyright.

    The thanks I get for choosing to pay for a game instead infringing it's copyright is being accused of being a pirate and having my computer held hostage.

    No, I reject that, and I will circumvent it.



    so circumvent it by not buying the game (by the way, you're a pussy and starforce is fine, just bringing that up again you fucking wuss) not by pirating it*

    *
    you're a homo

    Tube on
  • LibrarianThorneLibrarianThorne Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    I've pirated one game in my life. That game was Civilization III, and I pirated it simply because I could never find the game. Well, a week later, I saw it on clearance for $10 and snapped it up.

    Generally, I don't see the point in game piracy. It doesn't do anything but hurt the developer's bottom line and, since I mostly like niche games, if I pirated games I'd actively harm my favorite genre. I pay full MSRP for games when I can afford to (once every few months, usually) and then I play them through.

    However, I can see pirating a game to use it as, basically, a demo. Demos are a dying breed any more and when games are $50-$60 then the incentive to try before you buy is really powerful. I still don't agree wtih it (because the temptation to just not buy the game at that point is powerful) but I can understand that form.

    LibrarianThorne on
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    But I didn't know it had starforce when I bought it.

    They will not tell you. It does not ever say on the box.

    LewieP on
  • subediisubedii Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    yes but no one actually cares if you crack it to backup your data so isn't the point somewhat moot?

    Laws shouldn't be made that circumvent previously given rights, although that's more a legal issue than anything.

    subedii on
  • apotheosapotheos Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited August 2008
    LewieP wrote: »
    I am directly funding the development of a game by choosing to give them money, and what do I get in return? I get software installed on my PC that can damage my PC's hardware, and will impact performance. The only purpose this software has is to stop me infringing copyright.

    The thanks I get for choosing to pay for a game instead infringing it's copyright is being accused of being a pirate and having my computer held hostage.

    Hostage? Thats a bit of an overstatement. And I seriously doubt it can affect your hardware. All I can offer from personal experience is I've never noticed it doing anything at all.

    apotheos on


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  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited August 2008
    LewieP wrote: »
    But I didn't know it had starforce when I bought it.

    They will not tell you. It does not ever say on the box.

    as long as you bought it, I don't care what you do.

    you reprehensible sow

    Tube on
  • LewiePLewieP Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Lots of people have had DVD drives break, and subedii has mentioned the problems he had.

    I run a tight ship on my PC, and I am not even going to risk Starforce. Even if one legitimate consumer is inconvenienced by it, it is wrong imo.

    Edit: Yeah, any invasive/bad DRM should be clearly labeled on retailers web sites and on game packaging, it is not atm. I would still dislike it then, but I would have less excuse for circumventing it.

    LewieP on
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited August 2008
    you are such a girl

    Tube on
  • apotheosapotheos Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited August 2008
    LewieP wrote: »
    But I didn't know it had starforce when I bought it.

    They will not tell you. It does not ever say on the box.

    as long as you bought it, I don't care what you do.

    you reprehensible sow

    You got kicked out of debate club, didn't you?

    apotheos on


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  • subediisubedii Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    apotheos wrote: »
    LewieP wrote: »
    But I didn't know it had starforce when I bought it.

    They will not tell you. It does not ever say on the box.

    as long as you bought it, I don't care what you do.

    you reprehensible sow

    You got kicked out of debate club, didn't you?

    That was a bar.

    subedii on
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited August 2008
    apotheos wrote: »
    LewieP wrote: »
    But I didn't know it had starforce when I bought it.

    They will not tell you. It does not ever say on the box.

    as long as you bought it, I don't care what you do.

    you reprehensible sow

    You got kicked out of debate club, didn't you?

    I was more the guy who beat up the guys in the debate club while they tried to explain to me why I didn't really want to beat them up and why wouldn't I just listen to them

    Tube on
  • subediisubedii Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    apotheos wrote: »
    LewieP wrote: »
    But I didn't know it had starforce when I bought it.

    They will not tell you. It does not ever say on the box.

    as long as you bought it, I don't care what you do.

    you reprehensible sow

    You got kicked out of debate club, didn't you?

    I was more the guy who beat up the guys in the debate club while they tried to explain to me why I didn't really want to beat them up and why wouldn't I just listen to them

    Again, that was a bar.

    subedii on
  • apotheosapotheos Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited August 2008
    apotheos wrote: »
    LewieP wrote: »
    But I didn't know it had starforce when I bought it.

    They will not tell you. It does not ever say on the box.

    as long as you bought it, I don't care what you do.

    you reprehensible sow

    You got kicked out of debate club, didn't you?

    I was more the guy who beat up the guys in the debate club while they tried to explain to me why I didn't really want to beat them up and why wouldn't I just listen to them

    I'm not saying its not possible, but in the Venn diagram of life "people who get abusive on internet forums" and "people who have ever beat anyone up" have a minuscule intersection

    apotheos on


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  • RBachRBach Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Which again, is pretty shitty justification no? If you can't afford nice things, you don't get to have nice things. That's how our society works. You don't just get to have things because you want them. The guy who said "I downloaded Oblivion to try it out and deleted it after a week" is a fun example too. You can finish and conquer around 90% of games, including Oblivion, in a week. You didn't download it to try it out. You just took it.

    If you want to try a game out, buy it. If you want to know if you'll like it before you buy it, read reviews, ask your friends if it is good. If you don't want to play games without demos, just don't play them. Do your part in telling devs that not having a demo is uncool. If you buy the game and hate it, that's your bad luck. I bought Hitman 2, it sucked ass, I still have it and I'm not particularly mad because I understand that every time you buy a game you run the risk of it sucking ass.

    First, you have no idea how much of Oblivion I ended up playing. Granted, I can't prove anything to you but I'm being honest when I say I didn't get any further than the first portal that appears (and no, I didn't do any side quests). Out of that week (or two) I played it at most three separate days. I don't have the time or patience or inclination to breeze through 90% of a game in a week. Besides, for all you know I borrowed it from a friend, anyway (which is also true although I won't speak to the validity of his copy). Sorry for going somewhat off topic (and bringing up personal anecdotes again), but I feel I have to try to defend myself here. :)

    You do make a good point about sending a message to developers regarding demos. I'll certainly take it under advisement especially given the wealth of demos that are available. To support your point, I can't think of a single game I've purchased in the last few years (with two notable exceptions) that I've been disappointed in. There have been some I shouldn't have bought at the going price, but they are/were still enjoyable experiences.
    apotheos wrote: »
    when I wanted to play dark messiah and my pc wasn't working I went and bought the X Box version because it is a different product and there's no real basis for me not paying for it other than "well I don't want to".

    Isn't that game supposed to be horrible? And you bought two copies?

    Well done sir, well done.

    Who cares if the game was "good" or "bad"? He clearly liked it (or part of it) and that's all that matters in the end. :)

    RBach on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited August 2008
    apotheos wrote: »
    apotheos wrote: »
    LewieP wrote: »
    But I didn't know it had starforce when I bought it.

    They will not tell you. It does not ever say on the box.

    as long as you bought it, I don't care what you do.

    you reprehensible sow

    You got kicked out of debate club, didn't you?

    I was more the guy who beat up the guys in the debate club while they tried to explain to me why I didn't really want to beat them up and why wouldn't I just listen to them

    I'm not saying its not possible, but in the Venn diagram of life "people who get abusive on internet forums" and "people who have ever beat anyone up" have a minuscule intersection

    I am beating someone up as I type this.

    Tube on
  • monoRAILmonoRAIL Registered User
    edited August 2008
    I develop PC games and give them away for free. As far as I'm concerned, the PC is an 'open' environment - ie there's nothing you can do to stop people stealing stuff, so don't even try - just give it away for free.

    I make money in my day job working as an artist for a console developer. Pirating console games is harder, which is why I'm able to make a living from it.

    The reason people pirate PC games is obvious - it's easy to do, there's no penalty for doing it and it saves them money. If there were no police on the streets people would steal everything, it's human nature.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_police_strike

    monoRAIL on
  • InsanityInsanity Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    LewieP wrote: »
    I am directly funding the development of a game by choosing to give them money, and what do I get in return? I get software installed on my PC that can damage my PC's hardware, and will impact performance. The only purpose this software has is to stop me infringing copyright.

    The thanks I get for choosing to pay for a game instead infringing it's copyright is being accused of being a pirate and having my computer held hostage.

    No, I reject that, and I will circumvent it.

    This.

    It's always a problem when the pirated version is better than the original.

    Pirated films, for instance, don't have this sort of thing:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTbX1aMajow

    Insanity on
    gBpkw.jpg
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited August 2008
    Some game I bought years ago (can't remember which one now) came with Starforce.

    I had to physically disconnect my DVD burner, or Starforce kept insisting that I was a dirty pirate.

    Fuck you, DRM.

    Echo on
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited August 2008
    monoRAIL wrote: »
    I develop PC games and give them away for free. As far as I'm concerned, the PC is an 'open' environment - ie there's nothing you can do to stop people stealing stuff, so don't even try - just give it away for free.

    I make money in my day job working as an artist for a console developer. Pirating console games is harder, which is why I'm able to make a living from it.

    The reason people pirate PC games is obvious - it's easy to do, there's no penalty for doing it and it saves them money. If there were no police on the streets people would steal everything, it's human nature.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_police_strike

    Exactly right.

    I don't actually care about people pirating games so much, it's your morality so whatever. I'm bothered more by the shrill, hypocritical justifications.

    Tube on
  • The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Hey guys what's going on here. I just got punched in the face by some guy at an internet cafe.

    Oh, and starforce doesn't do shit to your computer. theamount of community backlash towards it has generated this imaginary perceived image of it as some PC killer.

    if you are so inept as to be worried about starforce you are probably gonna wreck your pc in other ways long before.

    The_Scarab on
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited August 2008
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Tube, what are your views on people pirating stuff that they've lost the original copies of?

    Quid on
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited August 2008
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    Oh, and starforce doesn't do shit to your computer. theamount of community backlash towards it has generated this imaginary perceived image of it as some PC killer.

    Please to be reading my post.

    Echo on
  • The_ScarabThe_Scarab Registered User regular
    edited August 2008
    Echo wrote: »
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    Oh, and starforce doesn't do shit to your computer. theamount of community backlash towards it has generated this imaginary perceived image of it as some PC killer.

    Please to be reading my post.

    Ok i was generalising. in a minute amount of cases something happens.

    Heck, I've had more issues with MS word over the years breaking my PCs than starforce.

    shit happens, thus is the nature of the PC platform.

    the plural of anecdote isnt data. people who have problems with starforce are far more vocal than the hundreds of thousands who do not.

    The_Scarab on
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited August 2008
    Quid wrote: »
    Tube, what are your views on people pirating stuff that they've lost the original copies of?
    as long as you bought it, I don't care what you do.

    Tube on
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